Russian collapse...

D

Don Y

Guest
Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

<https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/>

<https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html>

<https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195>

<https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991>

<https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/>

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!
 
C

Cursitor Doom

Guest
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:26:06 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its gas
exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and now the
ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become, spurred
by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago. Putin is now forced
to act to prevent himself ending up in the exact same position as Jack
Kennedy in the US back in \'62 and only a brainwashed fool would be
unable to understand that simple concept.
 
A

Anthony William Sloman

Guest
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 6:04:45 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
I wrote:

The most recent 2 Fox News videos (linked to below) about Ukraine
illustrate how far out of touch Washington and the media is with their
main constituents.

<snipped John Doe taking Fox News seriously. They may appear to share some of John Doe\'s delusions, but in fact they are cynically pandering to an audience which is dim enough to buy the rubbish their advertisers are selling>

> Zelenskyy doesn\'t really know what day, but he\'s convinced American diplomats will be visiting Ukraine, very soon.

Probably correctly. Making it more difficult for the Russians to \"accidentally\" shoot their plane down might come into that.

> The idiot needs to HUMBLE himself and stop Ukrainians from suffering.

John Doe needs to humble himself, and realise that no amount of humility would make Putin happy. Nothing short of absolute obedience would serve.

> Personally, it\'s probably too late for him, so he doesn\'t care. Maybe his gorgeous (soon-to-be ex) wife is driving it. Should have had a prenuptial agreement.

Not being as susceptible to Putin\'s propaganda as John Doe is, Zelensky may have a more realistic idea of his likely fate. It might include getting honoured as the guy who allowed Putin to shoot himself in the foot. Russia is revising the extent of the glorious military victory they are aiming for. The humiliating defeat they are likely to end up with isn\'t yet being mentioned.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
A

Anthony William Sloman

Guest
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 6:35:48 PM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:26:06 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
alway...@message.header> wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its gas
exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and now the
ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become, spurred
by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.
THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

Nobody gave Russia any \"assurances\" after the USSR collapsed. They were a basket case, and the west cheap-skated out of doing anything significant to get them back on their feet. It was an expensive mistake.

> Putin is now forced to act to prevent himself ending up in the exact same position as Jack Kennedy in the US back in \'62 and only a brainwashed fool would be unable to understand that simple concept.

Nobody was planning on stationing intermediate range nuclear ballistic missiles (IRBMs) in the Ukraine. For one thing, we got intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) after 1962, and there\'s no longer much point in spreading IRBMs around.

Putin is acting badly because he needs to look like a strong leader, rather than a kleptocrat ripping off his own country. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, and Putin is clearly a scoundrel.

Swallowing his propaganda identifies you as gullible twit, but we knew that anyway.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
E

Ed Lee

Guest
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 1:35:48 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:26:06 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
alway...@message.header> wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its gas
exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and now the
ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become, spurred
by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.
THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

Political promises from politicians here and there. No treaty was signed whatever to assure Russia.
 
C

Cursitor Doom

Guest
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 08:41:01 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
<edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 1:35:48 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:26:06 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
alway...@message.header> wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its gas
exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and now the
ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become, spurred
by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.
THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

Political promises from politicians here and there. No treaty was signed whatever to assure Russia.

Are you suggesting our politicians can\'t be trusted to keep their
word?
<chortle!>
Joking aside, the fact is we broke those undertakiings and that is why
we are where we are now: looking at yet another war - and one which
could go nuclear at that.
 
E

Ed Lee

Guest
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:55:57 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 08:41:01 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 1:35:48 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:26:06 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
alway...@message.header> wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its gas
exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and now the
ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become, spurred
by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.
THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

Political promises from politicians here and there. No treaty was signed whatever to assure Russia.
Are you suggesting our politicians can\'t be trusted to keep their
word?

Politicians represent themselves with promises, only signed and verified treaties are bounded to the countries.

chortle!
Joking aside, the fact is we broke those undertakiings and that is why
we are where we are now: looking at yet another war - and one which
could go nuclear at that.

NATO or not. Russia goal is to control the entire Black Sea north coast all the way to Moldova. Ukraine needs to send them more Neptunes. Without their Black Sea Fleet, perhaps Russians would go home.
 
S

server

Guest
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:35:41 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:26:06 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its gas
exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and now the
ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become, spurred
by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

What were those?

And what\'s wrong with NATO? It\'s an agreement that if small countries
are attacked, they will support one another.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 6:26:13 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:

> Only neocons and liberals are for arming Ukraine. The rest of us Americans ...

You left out Nazis! So much propoganda, it\'s hard to keep it straight. John Doe isn\'t trying.
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 4/24/2022 4:46 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 6:04:45 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
I wrote:

The most recent 2 Fox News videos (linked to below) about Ukraine
illustrate how far out of touch Washington and the media is with their
main constituents.

snipped John Doe taking Fox News seriously. They may appear to share some of John Doe\'s delusions, but in fact they are cynically pandering to an audience which is dim enough to buy the rubbish their advertisers are selling

Zelenskyy doesn\'t really know what day, but he\'s convinced American diplomats will be visiting Ukraine, very soon.

Probably correctly. Making it more difficult for the Russians to \"accidentally\" shoot their plane down might come into that.

The idiot needs to HUMBLE himself and stop Ukrainians from suffering.

John Doe needs to humble himself, and realise that no amount of humility would make Putin happy. Nothing short of absolute obedience would serve.

Doe mistakes anyone unwilling to humble themselves in front of washed-up
US game show hosts and Russia for \"fawning over Ukraine\", nuance isn\'t
his strong point.
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 4/24/2022 4:04 AM, John Doe wrote:
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/04/23/Top-US-diplomat-defense-secretary-to-visit-to-Kyiv-on-Sunday-Zelenskyy-says

Zelenskyy doesn\'t really know what day, but he\'s convinced American
diplomats will be visiting Ukraine, very soon.

The idiot needs to HUMBLE himself and stop Ukrainians from suffering.
Personally, it\'s probably too late for him, so he doesn\'t care. Maybe his
gorgeous (soon-to-be ex) wife is driving it. Should have had a prenuptial
agreement.

Lol be humble for what, a Vladimir Putin and a washed-up game show host
named Donald Trump?

They\'ve both been showed out for the impotent toads they are. Can\'t say
what the Ukraine will do exactly and it\'s not my business, but the left
in both the US and Russia should take the opportunity to crush these
idiots and their fan clubs forever, I love our chances.

Ah, looks like Marine Le Pen got stomped in France, too, I love it. Get
fuckin\' wrecked fashie fucks.
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 4/24/2022 4:19 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/24/2022 4:04 AM, John Doe wrote:
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/04/23/Top-US-diplomat-defense-secretary-to-visit-to-Kyiv-on-Sunday-Zelenskyy-says


Zelenskyy doesn\'t really know what day, but he\'s convinced American
diplomats will be visiting Ukraine, very soon.

The idiot needs to HUMBLE himself and stop Ukrainians from suffering.
Personally, it\'s probably too late for him, so he doesn\'t care. Maybe his
gorgeous (soon-to-be ex) wife is driving it. Should have had a prenuptial
agreement.

Lol be humble for what, a Vladimir Putin and a washed-up game show host
named Donald Trump?

They\'ve both been showed out for the impotent toads they are. Can\'t say
what the Ukraine

Excuse me, \"Ukraine.\" Force of habit, must be all those Stalinist
teachers I had, lol
 
S

server

Guest
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
M

Mike Monett

Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

[...]

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao

Their fighter planes and helicopters seem pretty good, but the navy lacks
discipline, training, and suffers from poor engineering. As well as the Kursk
and serious nuclear sub accidents, we have the Moskva:

Understanding the sinking of the Moskva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5w3_bbMjq8

Sinking of the Moskva EXPLAINED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-JLElq2aYc

Sinking of the Moskva: Damage Assessment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgM4tAvnlL4





--
MRM
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao

Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting ducks each
year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage as the USS Cole showed
20 years ago.

$4.3 billion for these,

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer>

<https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/>

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful stealth.
At least they\'re only building three as opposed to the original 20,
still too many, the chances they could survive an attack like the one on
the Moskva about 0%:

<https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-stealth-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/>
 
J

John Doe

Guest
Cursitor Doom wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its
gas exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and
now the ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become,
spurred by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago. Putin is now forced
to act to prevent himself ending up in the exact same position as Jack
Kennedy in the US back in \'62 and only a brainwashed fool would be
unable to understand that simple concept.

For a good time, check out Fox News\'s channel...

https://www.youtube.com/user/FoxNewsChannel/videos

Or even their business channel...

https://www.youtube.com/user/FoxBusinessNetwork/videos

Search the page for videos about Ukraine and read the comments. Regular
Fox News viewers are BASHING the heck out of them in the comment sections.
It\'s a bloodbath. Similar thing happens with neocon Newsmax uploads...

https://www.youtube.com/c/NewsmaxtvLive/videos

Most Americans and probably most non-neocon non-liberal Europeans are
against participating in that war.
 
J

John Doe

Guest
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Only neocons and liberals are for arming Ukraine. The rest of us Americans

You left out Nazis!

\"neocons\" is close enough
 
J

John Doe

Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for its
gas exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas demand, and
now the ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media.
World renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has
become, spurred by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

What were those?

That NATO would not expand to Russia\'s border countries.

And what\'s wrong with NATO? It\'s an agreement that if small countries
are attacked, they will support one another.

Hosting NATO\'s MILITARY troops is not just an \"agreement\".

Actually, Henry Kissinger did say some of those countries should join
NATO, but also \"they should NOT host NATO troops\". Now three of four are
hosting NATO troops.

We Americans wouldn\'t allow Russian military forces in Mexico or Canada
either.

NATO is attempting to encroach close enough to Moscow to initiate a first
strike against Russia. Ukraine is less than 200 miles from Moscow. That\'s
too close.

Then NATO started flirting with Ukraine and Ukraine started persecuting
Russia sympathetic people in Ukraine. That stepped over the line.

Renowned world diplomats warned against NATO\'s aggressive expansion to
Russia\'s border countries but they were ignored. Ukraine getting wrecked
is the result.
 
J

John Doe

Guest
Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ed Lee wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
John Doe wrote:

Lots of propaganda, most of it before Russia demanded rubles for
its gas exports. Europe submitted to Russia\'s rubles for gas
demand, and now the ruble is higher than its prewar level.

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media.
World renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has
become, spurred by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.

Political promises from politicians here and there. No treaty was
signed whatever to assure Russia.

Are you suggesting our politicians can\'t be trusted to keep their word?

Politicians represent themselves with promises, only signed and verified
treaties are bounded to the countries.

chortle!
Joking aside, the fact is we broke those undertakiings and that is why
we are where we are now: looking at yet another war - and one which
could go nuclear at that.

NATO or not. Russia goal is to control the entire Black Sea north coast
all the way to Moldova. Ukraine needs to send them more Neptunes.
Without their Black Sea Fleet, perhaps Russians would go home.

Are you just ACTING deaf and stupid? Russia has thousands of nukes.
 
J

John Doe

Guest
https://youtu.be/p3TA2BDpe74

\"Neocons leading the way: Greenwald...Glenn Greenwald tells \'The Ingraham
Angle\' that neocons seem to be the most beloved and admired and influential
people within the Democratic Party.\"

Glenn Greenwald is a rabid liberal who graduated from NYU School of Law
(1994) and The George Washington University (1990).

https://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald

Salon is a far left liberal publication.

This issue is another shining example of \"bitrex\" contradicting its claim
of being a \"libertarian\"...

--
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: OT: Russian collapse
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Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:667268

On 4/24/2022 4:04 AM, John Doe wrote:
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/04/23/Top-US-diplomat-defense-secretary-to-visit-to-Kyiv-on-Sunday-Zelenskyy-says

Zelenskyy doesn\'t really know what day, but he\'s convinced American
diplomats will be visiting Ukraine, very soon.

The idiot needs to HUMBLE himself and stop Ukrainians from suffering.
Personally, it\'s probably too late for him, so he doesn\'t care. Maybe his
gorgeous (soon-to-be ex) wife is driving it. Should have had a prenuptial
agreement.

Lol be humble for what, a Vladimir Putin and a washed-up game show host
named Donald Trump?

They\'ve both been showed out for the impotent toads they are. Can\'t say
what the Ukraine will do exactly and it\'s not my business, but the left
in both the US and Russia should take the opportunity to crush these
idiots and their fan clubs forever, I love our chances.

Ah, looks like Marine Le Pen got stomped in France, too, I love it. Get
fuckin\' wrecked fashie fucks.
 

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