Russian collapse...

On 4/24/2022 8:54 PM, bitrex wrote:

[So, now *two* datapoints that give an underwwhelming assessment of \"life in
Russia\"]

If Putin mistook some expressions of wistfulness on the part of some in former
Soviet republics like Ukraine for the Soviet Union itself, or for a longing for
Russia itself, I think he was badly mistaken, they tended to love the jobs that
the Soviet Union provided, not Russia or the rest of the Soviet Union\'s ideas.

I think *anyone* who allows themselves to be molly-coddled into an echo chamber
where they hear what they want to hear (gladly provided by sycophants) is in
danger of losing all capacity for independent reason -- you have to EXERCISE
that ability in order to retain it.

[The same is true of media consumers. If you\'re swallowing the pablum offered
without exercising any critical thought, you will quickly lose the ability to
distinguish reality from fantasy. And, those around you will see it (in you)
while you remain oblivious. Remember, YOU are the \"product\" that they are
marketing to their advertisers!]

[[I am naturally cynical. So, when I hear something that seems too convenient,
I immediately want to know, \"What\'s the catch? What AREN\'T you telling me??\"
Sometimes, this cynicism backfires. Some time ago, I noticed a sale for
\"30% off 6 bottles or more\" at a local grocery store (I am rarely in the liquor
department). \"What\'s the catch?\" Liquor has a LONG shelf life. I use liquers
by the *boatload* in my baking so 6 bottles is a SMALL purchase... \"No catch.
Most people aren\'t keen on dropping a few hundred dollars on spirits, that\'s
all.\" More recently, they have become \"25% off 6 bottles\" so the savings
aren\'t as great. But, I manage to stock up almost as often as they have the
sales!]]

It was largely an oligarchic racket same as Russia is now but for a period of
time similar to the period of nostalgia the boomers in the US sometimes have,
1950-1980, the racket was decently productive and able to provide some good
jobs in the republics also, and put workers in steel plants making ships and
planes, and farmers in fields cranking out grain and produce.

The Good Ole Days in the US were largely a result of it being the sole standing
major economy coming out of WWII. You could make *crap* and there\'d be a
market for it! (cuz there were no other realistic suppliers, at scale, in a
world that was trying to rebuild).

This lead many \"old timers\" to think they were intrinsically valuable. And,
as a result, that they could rest on their laurels (instead of trying to
improve themselves). So, when the rest of the world moved forward, they
were able to benefit from those OTHER improvements -- before realizing that
THEY were no longer relevant.

[You\'ve been listening to your own opinion of yourself for so long that you
no longer are able to evaluate your own REAL \"worth\". You no more want
to hear that your skills are obsolete than Putin wants to hear that the
USSR is *gone* (and Russia likely following)]

The market reforms that followed were better about putting McDonalds on street
corners and more Western products in stores, but less effective on the
employment front in the former republics particularly.

But those reforms made it possible for OPEN societies to provide those
opportunities to their residents. YOU could own a McDonald\'s franchise!
Societies that want to keep you under their thumb aren\'t keen on letting
you succeed on your own merits (you may start \"getting ideas\"!)

It\'s been an \"interesting\" time to live: landing on the moon, watching The
Wall come down, the breakup of the USSR, technological advances, etc.

But, I suspect that can be said of many periods in history. (\"Hey,
did you hear about that guy, Attila? ...\")
 
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:30:02 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 6:55:49 PM UTC-7, John Doe wrote:
Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ed Lee wrote:
Cursitor Doom wrote:
John Doe wrote:

<snip>

NATO or not. Russia goal is to control the entire Black Sea north
coast all the way to Moldova. Ukraine needs to send them more
Neptunes. Without their Black Sea Fleet, perhaps Russians would go
home.

Are you just ACTING deaf and stupid? Russia has thousands of nukes.

That\'s the Putin trap.

No, it\'s called \"logic\".

John Doe doesn\'t know what the word means, and he either doesn\'t know how to construct a logical argument, or realises that it would be a waste of his time to make the attempt.

> Conventional forces are no longer useful except for critically important missions.

As if they were trained and held in reserve for anything else.

> The only purpose for NATO is to encroach close enough to Moscow to give it first strike capability.

NATO has been a purely defensive alliance since it was first created. Since intercontinental ballistic missiles were developed and deployed, everybody has had a first strike capability, but since you can use radar to detect incoming missiles and launch yours before the incoming missiles have hit anything, it\'s not all that useful. Intercontinental missiles fired from submarines provide an even more effective counterattack capacity.

Quite why John Doe persists in posting this particular bit of fatuous nonsense isn\'t clear. It probably crops up frequently in the pro-Putin propaganda he exists to spread.

> It wouldn\'t even really matter if Ukraine were part of NATO. The question will always be whether defending a particular country, NATO member or not, is worth starting World War III.

If a country is a member of a defensive alliance, like NATO, attacking it will lead all it\'s allies to declare war on the attacker. This wouldn\'t necessarily be World War Three. NATO versus Russia would leave out most of the world. NATO wouldn\'t need nuclear weapons to sink Russian decisively, but if Russia were silly enough to start such a war it might be silly enough to unleash nuclear weapons, and get decisively flattened by the response.

You can be international outlaw with nukes. Now, all strong arm countries will want nukes.

The poster lives under a rock.

And not the same rock as John Doe. John Doe does seem to be a Putin glove-puppet, which would mean that he hasn\'t got any life of his own at all.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
No thanks, almost nothing the media says is believable, I believe my own 2
eyes.

Only neocons and liberals are gung ho for starting World War III...

https://www.youtube.com/user/FoxNewsChannel/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/FoxBusinessNetwork/videos

Search the page for videos about Ukraine and read the comments. Regular
Fox News viewers (proving they are not sheep) are BASHING the heck out of
Fox in the comment sections. It\'s a bloodbath. Similar happens to neocon
Newsmax uploads about Ukraine...

https://www.youtube.com/c/NewsmaxtvLive/videos




Not so with neocons and liberal viewers, they eat it up...

https://youtu.be/p3TA2BDpe74

\"Neocons leading the way: Greenwald...Glenn Greenwald tells \'The Ingraham
Angle\' that neocons seem to be the most beloved and admired and
influential people within the Democratic Party.\"

Glenn Greenwald is a rabid liberal who graduated from NYU School of Law
(1994) and The George Washington University (1990).

https://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald

Salon is a far left liberal publication.
 
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:16:50 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
> No thanks, almost nothing the media says is believable, I believe my own 2 eyes.

And keep them firmly focussed on right-wing propaganda, No inconvenient fact is going to stop John Doe from thinking what he likes to think.

> Only neocons and liberals are gung ho for starting World War III...

Nobody is gung ho for starting World War III. At least not outside John Doe\'s fertile imagination, which does breed a lot of straw men.

<snipped the usual nonsense from Fox News, which is designed to appeal to people as silly as John Doe>

> Search the page for videos about Ukraine and read the comments.

Don\'t bother. The comments are posted by people silly enough to pay attention to the content.

> Regular Fox News viewers (proving they are not sheep) are BASHING the heck out of Fox in the comment sections. It\'s a bloodbath. Similar happens to neocon Newsmax uploads about Ukraine...

They aren\'t sheep, merely goats, an equally stupid herd animal.
https://www.youtube.com/c/NewsmaxtvLive/videos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsmax_TV

Aimed at the Fox New audience. Idiots willing to buy the cheap rubbish that gets advertised there.

Not so with neocons and liberal viewers, they eat it up...

https://youtu.be/p3TA2BDpe74

Snipped more Fox News nonsense.

> Salon is a far left liberal publication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon.com

Merely liberal, and a commercial disaster. It\'s can\'t offer the curated stock of gullible idiots readers that more right-wing outlets can offer to their advertisers.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 3:40:09 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
> Babbling nonsense from an Australian troll.

Of course John Doe can\'t tell us why he thinks that it is nonsense. That would require him construct a logical argument, which doesn\'t seem to be in his skill set, any more than \"refuting lies\".
He can post lies - but he\'s too dumb to realise that they are lies - and when people point out the defects in his assertions he imagines that it is they who are lying, and that reasserting the original nonsense in some sense refutes the correction. It doesn\'t but he doesn\'t know enough to realise this.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
Salon describes itself as \"progressive\" and \"left-leaning\".

But the textbook cannibal leftist Bozo attacks the publication because one
of its authors disagrees with Bozo\'s opinion...



Only neocons and liberals are gung ho for starting World War III...

https://www.youtube.com/user/FoxNewsChannel/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/FoxBusinessNetwork/videos

Search the page for videos about Ukraine and read the comments. Regular
Fox News viewers (proving they are not sheep) are BASHING the heck out of
Fox in the comment sections. It\'s a bloodbath. Similar happens to neocon
Newsmax uploads about Ukraine...

https://www.youtube.com/c/NewsmaxtvLive/videos




Not so with neocons and liberal viewers, they eat it up...

https://youtu.be/p3TA2BDpe74

\"Neocons leading the way: Greenwald...Glenn Greenwald tells \'The Ingraham
Angle\' that neocons seem to be the most beloved and admired and
influential people within the Democratic Party.\"

Glenn Greenwald is a liberal who graduated from NYU School of Law (1994)
and The George Washington University (1990).

https://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald
 
Cursitor Doom wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Lots of silly predictions in Newsweek and other mainstream media. World
renowned diplomats have predicted the disaster Ukraine has become,
spurred by NATO expansion to Russia\'s border countries.

THAT is the core of the problem. We reneged on all the assurances we
gave Russia after the USSR collapsed 30 years ago. Putin is now forced
to act to prevent himself ending up in the exact same position as Jack
Kennedy in the US back in \'62 and only a brainwashed fool would be
unable to understand that simple concept.

This is so weird (good weird), when you go to MSNBC, their viewers\'
reactions are the OPPOSITE of Fox viewers...

Unlike on MSNBC, this is the RULE whenever Fox uploads a neocon video...

https://youtu.be/jsiRQ5XRyRM

The top comments...

Wow really happy this man isn’t gonna be anywhere near the governor’s
mansion.

The 7 stages of grief:
1- Denial <-- Zelensky is here
2- Pain <-- Ukrainians are here
3- Anger <-- Media and Mark Levin are here.

Zelensky got his own people in a war with absolutely NOTHING to gain. His
ego and foolishness blinded him nearly provoking a World War. He should go
back to the negotiating table, talk and resolve matters NOW

Very disappointed in mark Levin - the USA has had ENOUGH of the swamp wars

Wondering if it was as sick as that of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan,
Yemen etc!

This combat veteran is boasting about previous American invasions in all
those countries and still has the nerve to condemn russia, as if their
angels themselves

What’s sicking is the average taxpayer filling the coffers of the military
industrial complex. How about we try a new tactic send world leaders and
politicians to kick off these wars with bankers in the rear, see how long
these wars last…

and on and on and on...

It\'s like that under every neocon Ukraine video Fox or Fox Business
uploads. It\'s cool and refreshing. Those are not liberal trolls invading
Fox space, or Russian bots. Those are regular Fox viewers (maybe not all
Americans).
 
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 5:13:12 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
> Cursitor Doom wrote:

<snip>

> Zelensky got his own people in a war with absolutely NOTHING to gain.

Putin did have something to do with it.

> His ego and foolishness blinded him nearly provoking a World War.

John Doe really ought to be talking about Putin\'s ego and foolishness, but being a Putin glove-puppet prevents him from mentioning the obvious.

> He should go back to the negotiating table, talk and resolve matters NOW..

And exhibit the degree of subservience that Putin demands and expects. The people who voted for Zelensky wouldn\'t be all that happy if Zelensky did that, but Putin glove-puppets don\'t worry about that - to them - irrelevant detail.

> Very disappointed in Mark Levin - the USA has had ENOUGH of the swamp wars.

It isn\'t directly involved in this one.

> Wondering if it was as sick as that of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen etc!

Most of them killed American servicemen. That\'s not an issue in the Ukraine..

This combat veteran is boasting about previous American invasions in all those countries and still has the nerve to condemn Russia, as if they are angels themselves. By and large combat veterans don\'t get to pick the wars they fight in.

What’s sicking is the average taxpayer filling the coffers of the military industrial complex. How about we try a new tactic send world leaders and politicians to kick off these wars with bankers in the rear, see how long these wars last…

The world leaders are bit too old to make good combat troops. Wars are fought to be won, rather than to kill off inconvenient elements of the population.

and on and on and on...

It\'s like that under every neocon Ukraine video Fox or Fox Business
uploads. It\'s cool and refreshing. Those are not liberal trolls invading
Fox space, or Russian bots. Those are regular Fox viewers (maybe not all
Americans).

Rather dim right-wing lunatics - not a dim or lunatic as John Doe, but still silly enough to be sucked in by the Fox News offerings.

Fox News needs a gullible idiot audience to offer to it\'s advertisers who need gullible idiots to buy their cheap rubbish.

It\'s a business model, if not an attractive one.

Rupert Murdoch had to become an American citizen to satisfy his bottom-feeding ambitions. Australia just didn\'t offer enough gullible idiots to let him make as much money as he could earn in America. I use the term earn loosely - he doesn\'t deserve the income he gets, and America doesn\'t deserve the damage he does, but that\'s America\'s problem, not ours.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 5:19:18 PM UTC+10, John Doe wrote:
Debating anything with a chronic liar is a waste of time. When you
counter its lies, it simply makes up more lies to cover its prior lies.

Not that John Doe could \"debate\" anything. It just rolls out the same demented delusions, and feels hurt when people point out how thoroughly demented they are. He hasn\'t got enough sense to realise quite how obviously demented they are. He wouldn\'t be a Putin glove puppet if he had.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t454dq$20v$1@dont-
email.me:

We do not have hypersonic missiles, but Russia sure does...

Yes, we do, idiot.

There are many things that John Dope failed to keep up with in his
life. Being correct has always been his most difficult hurdle, and he
still has yet to clear it.
 
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:32:53 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao




Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting ducks each
year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage as the USS Cole showed
20 years ago.

Tank, too.

$4.3 billion for these,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful stealth.
At least they\'re only building three as opposed to the original 20,
still too many, the chances they could survive an attack like the one on
the Moskva about 0%:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-stealth-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/
Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need gigantic
gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:44:26 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 4/23/2022 6:00 PM, Don Y wrote:
Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html


https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195


https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991


https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/


\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now,
with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s
economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross
domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi!  Even Alabama!

Yes, Russia was only capable of sustaining the lifestyles of the
Chicago-school economists and fat oligarchs they enabled in looting the
country after the fall of the Soviet Union.

That market capitalism would\'ve been able to provide an American-style
comfortable existence for all it citizens was a joke going in and they
knew it, it was simply a pillaging exercise.

Russia was making progress until lately.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263777/gross-domestic-product-gdp-per-capita-in-russia/

although they still have about 1/4 the per-capita GDP of Alabama.




--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
On 2022-04-25 16:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:32:53 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao




Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting ducks each
year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage as the USS Cole showed
20 years ago.

Tank, too.


$4.3 billion for these,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful stealth.
At least they\'re only building three as opposed to the original 20,
still too many, the chances they could survive an attack like the one on
the Moskva about 0%:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-stealth-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/



Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need gigantic
gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.

Yes, and I\'m sure your military can\'t wait to try those out on
foreign soil.

Jeroen Belleman
 
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:23:32 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-04-25 16:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:32:53 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao




Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting ducks each
year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage as the USS Cole showed
20 years ago.

Tank, too.


$4.3 billion for these,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful stealth.
At least they\'re only building three as opposed to the original 20,
still too many, the chances they could survive an attack like the one on
the Moskva about 0%:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-stealth-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/



Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need gigantic
gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.

Yes, and I\'m sure your military can\'t wait to try those out on
foreign soil.

Jeroen Belleman

All militaries want to test their gear and their people; that\'s one
reason they jump into conflicts. A lot of european countries are doing
that right now.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
On 2022-04-25 17:35, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:23:32 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-04-25 16:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:32:53 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao




Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting ducks each
year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage as the USS Cole showed
20 years ago.

Tank, too.


$4.3 billion for these,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful stealth.
At least they\'re only building three as opposed to the original 20,
still too many, the chances they could survive an attack like the one on
the Moskva about 0%:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-stealth-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/



Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need gigantic
gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.

Yes, and I\'m sure your military can\'t wait to try those out on
foreign soil.

Jeroen Belleman

All militaries want to test their gear and their people; that\'s one
reason they jump into conflicts. A lot of european countries are doing
that right now.

Maybe. I always wonder if those conflicts weren\'t provoked for exactly
that reason. This one sure has all the symptoms, as do the conflicts
in the middle east, Afghanistan and Irak. That last one without even
the shadow of a doubt.

I don\'t think European nations might have had an interest in provoking
this particular conflict, but I\'m not so convinced about you guys. It\'s
far from /your/ beds.

Jeroen Belleman
 
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:52:33 AM UTC-7, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 2022-04-25 17:35, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:23:32 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jer...@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-04-25 16:08, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:32:53 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable and is
looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/7137384/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sudden-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now, with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao




Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting ducks each
year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage as the USS Cole showed
20 years ago.

Tank, too.


$4.3 billion for these,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful stealth.
At least they\'re only building three as opposed to the original 20,
still too many, the chances they could survive an attack like the one on
the Moskva about 0%:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-stealth-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/



Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need gigantic
gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.

Yes, and I\'m sure your military can\'t wait to try those out on
foreign soil.

Jeroen Belleman

All militaries want to test their gear and their people; that\'s one
reason they jump into conflicts. A lot of european countries are doing
that right now.
Maybe. I always wonder if those conflicts weren\'t provoked for exactly
that reason. This one sure has all the symptoms, as do the conflicts
in the middle east, Afghanistan and Irak. That last one without even
the shadow of a doubt.

I don\'t think European nations might have had an interest in provoking
this particular conflict, but I\'m not so convinced about you guys. It\'s
far from /your/ beds.

But what did we do to provoke this conflict, other than declaring that Ukrainians have right to live?
 
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in
news:t46n4m$11lr$1@gioia.aioe.org:

On 2022-04-25 17:35, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:23:32 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

On 2022-04-25 16:08, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 20:32:53 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net
wrote:

On 4/24/2022 5:21 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 15:00:10 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

Perhaps, like all politicians, Putin knows The Inevitable
and is looking for a distraction to stave it off -- for as
long as possible?

For a sampling (many hits):

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2022/04/7/713738
4/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-facing-outright-defeat-sud
den-041309456.html

https://www.newsweek.com/china-fears-russia-collapse-ukraine
-taiwan-foreign-minister-joseph-wu-1693195

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-
economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991

https://www.newconservativepost.com/2022/03/is-russia-on-the
-brink-of-collapse/

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of
Russia, which had a GDP the size of Texas before the war,
with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the
invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an
empire. Now, with foreign sanctions presiding over a
plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s economic standing has
fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world,
with a gross domestic product (GDP) not much larger than the
state of Ohio’s.” How do you say “Mississippi, here we
come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi! Even
Alabama!

They don\'t seem to do anything very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sewhe0DqVao




Surface combat ships become more as just high=priced sitting
ducks each year. Even rag-tag militias can do serious damage
as the USS Cole showed 20 years ago.

Tank, too.


$4.3 billion for these,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2016/11/22/destroyer-
zumwalt-breaks-down-and-gets-tow-in-panama-canal/

Close-in defense compromised in favor of the dubiously-useful
stealth. At least they\'re only building three as opposed to
the original 20, still too many, the chances they could
survive an attack like the one on the Moskva about 0%:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/01/the-us-navys-zumwalt-steal
th-destroyer-a-rusty-mess/



Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need
gigantic gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would
be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.

Yes, and I\'m sure your military can\'t wait to try those out on
foreign soil.

Jeroen Belleman

All militaries want to test their gear and their people; that\'s
one reason they jump into conflicts. A lot of european countries
are doing that right now.


Maybe. I always wonder if those conflicts weren\'t provoked for
exactly that reason. This one sure has all the symptoms, as do the
conflicts in the middle east, Afghanistan and Irak. That last one
without even the shadow of a doubt.

I don\'t think European nations might have had an interest in
provoking this particular conflict, but I\'m not so convinced about
you guys. It\'s far from /your/ beds.

Jeroen Belleman

I used to say that the Gulf War was a proving ground for our stelth
capabilities AND our battle theater communications gear up against
whatever technology level the Russians had Saddam up to at the time.

We were ecstatic that our gear is orders of magnitude better than the
Russian crap.

Then the bastards and Assange, etc. hacked us and started trying to
copy us as did China.

In Afghanistan, we proved that old analog feedback panels used in the
A-10 Warthogs was perfectly sufficient to obliterate any and all
targets. Now we are pumping out the new A-10 (as opposed to canceling
them) And they are even more advanced and more (precision level)
deadly.

In this arena, we get to check out some of our new gear, but the
Britain\'s new anti-aircraft ground based (and manpad)missiles are
amazingly fast and accurate in invulnerable to jamming and do not even
care about chaff flares, etc.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NUoDLgvm8c>

Elon Musk is talking about putting up space birds that attack other
space birds. And even a grappler version (which I talked about
literally decades ago).

It is all heating up, and the rest of us will have whatever economy
rambles through us as we watch yet again, while a nuclear arsenal
weilding autocratic nation threatens the world and traipses around
killing innocents as he lies to his people to get them behind him,
leaving them unaware of any reality.

And the big bad US and her allies have to stave off the assholes
without pushing them to their points of wanting to push launch buttons.

I now hope that we can put up birds with lasers and or rail guns to
shoot any and all ICBMs and their MIRV warheads before they reach their
apogees.
 
On 4/25/2022 10:23 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

Given vertical takeoff/land planes and drones, we don\'t need gigantic
gigabuck flattop targets. Lots of small carriers would be better.

We probably don\'t need manned fighter planes at all.

Smart swarms will change warfare forever.

Yes, and I\'m sure your military can\'t wait to try those out on
foreign soil.

Jeroen Belleman

The US track record in the past 70 years is two losses (Vietnam,
Afghanistan) and two bloody stalemates (Korea, Iraq), given such poor
performance it\'s surprising American citizens are willing to give it any
money at all.

But under Biden it\'s getting the most money ever, no surprises there
defense budgets only go up. The money tends to only be good in practice
for enriching people who are fabulously wealthy already, and developing
tech that can only win \"wars\" against American citizens themselves.

Regrettably well over 50% of the population seems to prefer it that way.
 
On 4/25/2022 10:20 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion, Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now,
with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s
economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross
domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi!  Even Alabama!

Yes, Russia was only capable of sustaining the lifestyles of the
Chicago-school economists and fat oligarchs they enabled in looting the
country after the fall of the Soviet Union.

That market capitalism would\'ve been able to provide an American-style
comfortable existence for all it citizens was a joke going in and they
knew it, it was simply a pillaging exercise.

Russia was making progress until lately.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263777/gross-domestic-product-gdp-per-capita-in-russia/

although they still have about 1/4 the per-capita GDP of Alabama.

Even Putin seems to have been at least momentarily surprised that his
advisors and \"friends\" were robbing him blind to line their pickets &
telling him what he wanted to hear most of the time. \"Oh yes comra...er,
Mr. President, we use money make very good tank force! Best in world, of
course. We take much care to eliminate all corruption in procurement
process.\"
 
On 4/25/2022 3:08 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 4/25/2022 10:20 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

\"The worst appears yet to come from Putin’s confusion of Russia, which
had a GDP the size of Texas before the war, with the former Russian
Empire
from 100 years ago. As has been noted, “even before the invasion,
Russia’s
economic capabilities were hardly capable of sustaining an empire. Now,
with
foreign sanctions presiding over a plummeting Russian ruble, Russia’s
economic
standing has fallen further still. If measured at today’s exchange
rates,
Russia’s economy would be the 22nd largest in the world, with a gross
domestic
product (GDP) not much larger than the state of Ohio’s.” How do you say
“Mississippi, here we come!” in Russian?\"

And we know EVERYONE aspires to emulate Mississippi!  Even Alabama!

Yes, Russia was only capable of sustaining the lifestyles of the
Chicago-school economists and fat oligarchs they enabled in looting the
country after the fall of the Soviet Union.

That market capitalism would\'ve been able to provide an American-style
comfortable existence for all it citizens was a joke going in and they
knew it, it was simply a pillaging exercise.

Russia was making progress until lately.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263777/gross-domestic-product-gdp-per-capita-in-russia/


although they still have about 1/4 the per-capita GDP of Alabama.

Even Putin seems to have been at least momentarily surprised that his
advisors and \"friends\" were robbing him blind to line their pickets

line their pockets, rather, they didn\'t do much picketing I expect
 

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