Power in use indicator please ?...

[default]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wolf
<stevwolf58@gmail.com> wrote:

>The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.

Back when I was tinkering with my water heater project, I got one of
those small side-by-side transformers. Square core with the primary
on one side secondary on the other. Better than the E-I cores IMO.

Then I wired a 12 position rotary switch so it would switch in 470 ohm
resistors as a load then measured the current and voltage. It went
from zero ohms, 470, 940,... up to 4.7K and open circuit, measuring
voltage and current at each step. I found the maximum power transfer
to be ~2K ohms, with a pretty bell curve. That is where the load
dissipated the most energy. At either extreme of the load power was
significantly less - something to keep in mind.

40 watt soldering iron with something like 12 turns of wire on the
primary side.

The circuit is still on my water heater and has been working for >10
years now. I have a flashing LED that flashes faster as current
increases (like when one heating element is on or both) and a piezo
buzzer that comes on when power is applied (I put a switch on the
water heater to save money) and again when the current drops to zero
(buzzer sounds for as long as a cap can keep it working)

My water heater pulls ~20 amps 240 V and when I breadboarded the
circuit, I was using my 40 watt soldering iron as a dummy load. I
think the water heater only needed two turns of wire. It\'s been too
long ago to remember it all accurately.

 

[default]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wolf
<stevwolf58@gmail.com> wrote:

>The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.

Back when I was tinkering with my water heater project, I got one of
those small side-by-side transformers. Square core with the primary
on one side secondary on the other. Better than the E-I cores IMO.

Then I wired a 12 position rotary switch so it would switch in 470 ohm
resistors as a load then measured the current and voltage. It went
from zero ohms, 470, 940,... up to 4.7K and open circuit, measuring
voltage and current at each step. I found the maximum power transfer
to be ~2K ohms, with a pretty bell curve. That is where the load
dissipated the most energy. At either extreme of the load power was
significantly less - something to keep in mind.

40 watt soldering iron with something like 12 turns of wire on the
primary side.

The circuit is still on my water heater and has been working for >10
years now. I have a flashing LED that flashes faster as current
increases (like when one heating element is on or both) and a piezo
buzzer that comes on when power is applied (I put a switch on the
water heater to save money) and again when the current drops to zero
(buzzer sounds for as long as a cap can keep it working)

My water heater pulls ~20 amps 240 V and when I breadboarded the
circuit, I was using my 40 watt soldering iron as a dummy load. I
think the water heater only needed two turns of wire. It\'s been too
long ago to remember it all accurately.

 

[default]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 13:13:22 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wolf
<stevwolf58@gmail.com> wrote:

>The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.

Back when I was tinkering with my water heater project, I got one of
those small side-by-side transformers. Square core with the primary
on one side secondary on the other. Better than the E-I cores IMO.

Then I wired a 12 position rotary switch so it would switch in 470 ohm
resistors as a load then measured the current and voltage. It went
from zero ohms, 470, 940,... up to 4.7K and open circuit, measuring
voltage and current at each step. I found the maximum power transfer
to be ~2K ohms, with a pretty bell curve. That is where the load
dissipated the most energy. At either extreme of the load power was
significantly less - something to keep in mind.

40 watt soldering iron with something like 12 turns of wire on the
primary side.

The circuit is still on my water heater and has been working for >10
years now. I have a flashing LED that flashes faster as current
increases (like when one heating element is on or both) and a piezo
buzzer that comes on when power is applied (I put a switch on the
water heater to save money) and again when the current drops to zero
(buzzer sounds for as long as a cap can keep it working)

My water heater pulls ~20 amps 240 V and when I breadboarded the
circuit, I was using my 40 watt soldering iron as a dummy load. I
think the water heater only needed two turns of wire. It\'s been too
long ago to remember it all accurately.

 

[amdx]

On 6/7/2020 5:27 PM, default wrote:

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0


Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

.

We had a hurricane a couple years ago, either lightning or power
surges, damaged three items in my home. All were in my computer area.
My computer HD got corrupted, my portable radio plugged into a wallwart
and my fluorescent table lamp. The modem, router and printers were fine.
Oh, and about $90k of damages to the home.

 

[amdx]

On 6/7/2020 5:27 PM, default wrote:

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0


Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

.

We had a hurricane a couple years ago, either lightning or power
surges, damaged three items in my home. All were in my computer area.
My computer HD got corrupted, my portable radio plugged into a wallwart
and my fluorescent table lamp. The modem, router and printers were fine.
Oh, and about $90k of damages to the home.

 

[amdx]

On 6/7/2020 5:27 PM, default wrote:

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0


Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

.

We had a hurricane a couple years ago, either lightning or power
surges, damaged three items in my home. All were in my computer area.
My computer HD got corrupted, my portable radio plugged into a wallwart
and my fluorescent table lamp. The modem, router and printers were fine.
Oh, and about $90k of damages to the home.

 

[default]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 02:22:37 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 5:27 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0


Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

.

We had a hurricane a couple years ago, either lightning or power
surges, damaged three items in my home. All were in my computer area.
My computer HD got corrupted, my portable radio plugged into a wallwart
and my fluorescent table lamp. The modem, router and printers were fine.
Oh, and about $90k of damages to the home.

I live on he East coast and evacuate about once a year for a
hurricane. Rising sea levels are a concern too, we already lost the
oak trees and now the pines are starting to go.

I figure with a pump (1/2 HP 120V) there has to be plenty of inductive
kick as it switches on and off That alone should translate to serious
spikes in the secondary of a current transformer.

 

[default]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 02:22:37 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 5:27 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0


Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

.

We had a hurricane a couple years ago, either lightning or power
surges, damaged three items in my home. All were in my computer area.
My computer HD got corrupted, my portable radio plugged into a wallwart
and my fluorescent table lamp. The modem, router and printers were fine.
Oh, and about $90k of damages to the home.

I live on he East coast and evacuate about once a year for a
hurricane. Rising sea levels are a concern too, we already lost the
oak trees and now the pines are starting to go.

I figure with a pump (1/2 HP 120V) there has to be plenty of inductive
kick as it switches on and off That alone should translate to serious
spikes in the secondary of a current transformer.

 

[default]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 02:22:37 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 5:27 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0


Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

.

We had a hurricane a couple years ago, either lightning or power
surges, damaged three items in my home. All were in my computer area.
My computer HD got corrupted, my portable radio plugged into a wallwart
and my fluorescent table lamp. The modem, router and printers were fine.
Oh, and about $90k of damages to the home.

I live on he East coast and evacuate about once a year for a
hurricane. Rising sea levels are a concern too, we already lost the
oak trees and now the pines are starting to go.

I figure with a pump (1/2 HP 120V) there has to be plenty of inductive
kick as it switches on and off That alone should translate to serious
spikes in the secondary of a current transformer.

 

[Arie de Muynck]

On 2020-06-08 11:09, default wrote:

I figure with a pump (1/2 HP 120V) there has to be plenty of inductive
kick as it switches on and off That alone should translate to serious
spikes in the secondary of a current transformer.

Inductive kickback produces voltage spikes, not current spikes.
A proper current transformer isolates against the voltage spike.
So, no problem.

 

[Arie de Muynck]

On 2020-06-08 11:09, default wrote:

I figure with a pump (1/2 HP 120V) there has to be plenty of inductive
kick as it switches on and off That alone should translate to serious
spikes in the secondary of a current transformer.

Inductive kickback produces voltage spikes, not current spikes.
A proper current transformer isolates against the voltage spike.
So, no problem.

 

[Arie de Muynck]

On 2020-06-08 11:09, default wrote:

I figure with a pump (1/2 HP 120V) there has to be plenty of inductive
kick as it switches on and off That alone should translate to serious
spikes in the secondary of a current transformer.

Inductive kickback produces voltage spikes, not current spikes.
A proper current transformer isolates against the voltage spike.
So, no problem.

 

[George Herold]

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 9:23:03 AM UTC-4, Arie de Muynck wrote:

On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded pole
motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily use them
as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie

Huh, I didn\'t know that.
Since this is an indicator going back to the house it\'s also got
~120 AC riding on the wires feeding the led.

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 9:23:03 AM UTC-4, Arie de Muynck wrote:

On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded pole
motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily use them
as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie

Huh, I didn\'t know that.
Since this is an indicator going back to the house it\'s also got
~120 AC riding on the wires feeding the led.

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 9:23:03 AM UTC-4, Arie de Muynck wrote:

On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded pole
motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily use them
as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie

Huh, I didn\'t know that.
Since this is an indicator going back to the house it\'s also got
~120 AC riding on the wires feeding the led.

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 1:36:06 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time..
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0

Hmm, how about putting a 5 Volt wall wart across the pump. And running
an LED or other indicator off the 5V. (or could be whatever wall wart
voltage you have laying around...)

George H.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <uiqqdfd1qi5tjnk8db79eisl3qiova1s74@4ax.com>,
default@defaulter.net says...

The circuit is still on my water heater and has been working for >10
years now. I have a flashing LED that flashes faster as current
increases (like when one heating element is on or both) and a piezo
buzzer that comes on when power is applied (I put a switch on the
water heater to save money) and again when the current drops to zero
(buzzer sounds for as long as a cap can keep it working)

Most water heaters only have one element on at a time. Is this a
special water heater ?

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <uiqqdfd1qi5tjnk8db79eisl3qiova1s74@4ax.com>,
default@defaulter.net says...

The circuit is still on my water heater and has been working for >10
years now. I have a flashing LED that flashes faster as current
increases (like when one heating element is on or both) and a piezo
buzzer that comes on when power is applied (I put a switch on the
water heater to save money) and again when the current drops to zero
(buzzer sounds for as long as a cap can keep it working)

Most water heaters only have one element on at a time. Is this a
special water heater ?

 

[Pimpom]

On 6/6/2020 6:47 PM, Steve Wolf wrote:

I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time with the potential of burning out pump. I want to build a little circuit that will tell me in my house if it is running. I have in the past build and induction coil out of a transformer and then used an LED to light up when the pump is on. I cut out one of the sides of the transformer then run a few winds of the power wire around the transformer that I cut the secondary wires from. It produces enough power to light an led.

However I would like to try another method. I have two ideas but I need a circuit diagram and instructions to do it.

One person mentioned to me the use of a Shunt. I have read up on shunts, and as far as I can see there is some potential here. Does anyone have a diagram that might be able to use a shunt. To light either an LED, or Neon bulb, or even Incandecent lamp.


Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

What are the nameplate ratings of the pump motor? Remember that
working with mains voltages is very dangerous and not to be
encouraged unless you know exactly what you\'re doing.