Power in use indicator please ?...

On 2020-06-07 18:02, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:23 AM, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup
current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded
pole motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily
use them as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie

That\'s because the AC voltage in one direction would be a diode drop
different from the other direction?  So the dc voltage would be equal to
the diode drop, or is it more complicated than that?
Click to expand...

That\'s more or less it. Divide that voltage drop by the total DC
resistance in the circuit (assume the mains is zero ohms), and you know
the DC current flowing. Simulate that with a DC supply connected to the
motor, rotate the motor manually, and check how much breaking action
occurs. I\'ve been amazed at it (and used it as a controllable motor
torque load).

Arie
 
On 2020-06-07 18:02, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/7/2020 9:23 AM, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup
current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded
pole motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily
use them as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie

That\'s because the AC voltage in one direction would be a diode drop
different from the other direction?  So the dc voltage would be equal to
the diode drop, or is it more complicated than that?
Click to expand...

That\'s more or less it. Divide that voltage drop by the total DC
resistance in the circuit (assume the mains is zero ohms), and you know
the DC current flowing. Simulate that with a DC supply connected to the
motor, rotate the motor manually, and check how much breaking action
occurs. I\'ve been amazed at it (and used it as a controllable motor
torque load).

Arie
 
On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.
Click to expand...

Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek
 
On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.
Click to expand...

Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek
 
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek
Click to expand...

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555. The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V. That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip. Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....
 
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek
Click to expand...

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555. The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V. That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip. Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....
 
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555. The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V. That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip. Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....
Click to expand...

Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.
 
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555. The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V. That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip. Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....
Click to expand...

Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.
 
On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.
Click to expand...

I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0
 
On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.
Click to expand...

I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0
 
The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.
 
The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.
 
On 6/7/2020 3:13 PM, Steve Wolf wrote:
The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.
Click to expand...

So I suspect the timing can be shorter, Your just topping off the tank.
So Maybe 5 or 6 minutes, but even if it spring a leak and ran 10
minutes, I don\'t think that would hurt the pump.

I have no clue about the turns required. I have a bunch of MicroWave
transformers and cores, I would just wind it until it works.
I might start with a MW transformer and remove the HV winding and the
shunt pieces and wind 3 turns and see if I need to take some off or put
some on.
A MW transformer has plenty of room. But I also understand working with
a smaller core.

Mikek
 
On 2020-06-07, Steve Wolf <stevwolf58@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.

lower wattage adaptors will have more turns on the (original) primary
but room for fewer turns in the window. I think they will all give approximately the same
output, voltage with the turns windows backed. but larger transformers will
be able to run larger loads.

--
Jasen.
 
On 6/7/2020 3:13 PM, Steve Wolf wrote:
The 5v option and diagram is interesting. The problem I had when I built the circuit , built on me removing the secondary from adapter was that I could only get maybe 3 loops of 14 gauge household wire looped in the space of the removed coil of secondary wire. Is there a size of ac adapter that would be best to try to get 5v or more out of with as few coils of 14 gauge looped in transformer. Eg. In my box of old ac adapters 5v, 12v, 24v etc. Would a higher wall watt give out better output? My original unit has worked for maybe 15 years. Looking to replace. Btw. It pumps water for house, kitchen etc. toilet. Never thought about lawn or washing car but, where I live nobody worries too much about this. There are other solution\'s that people have suggested they are helpful and appreciate the options and efforts.
Click to expand...

So I suspect the timing can be shorter, Your just topping off the tank.
So Maybe 5 or 6 minutes, but even if it spring a leak and ran 10
minutes, I don\'t think that would hurt the pump.

I have no clue about the turns required. I have a bunch of MicroWave
transformers and cores, I would just wind it until it works.
I might start with a MW transformer and remove the HV winding and the
shunt pieces and wind 3 turns and see if I need to take some off or put
some on.
A MW transformer has plenty of room. But I also understand working with
a smaller core.

Mikek
 
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 9:23:03 AM UTC-4, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded pole
motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily use them
as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie
Click to expand...

My pump is a dual capacitor type. A start cap with a timed disconnect, and a run capacitor. I bought some clamp type current transformers for it. I also added a few digital meters to be able to tell if it is running properly. For remote monitoring, I could add a transmitter, or fiber optic cable when I replace the underground power lines. I could monitor it from the house, if the same lines didn\'t power the laundry building and some outdoor outlets.

Here is what I bought:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=SCT-013-000&_sacat=0&_sop=15>
 
On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120 volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through it. You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1

Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky; nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes. When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.
Click to expand...

Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

Mikek
 
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 9:23:03 AM UTC-4, Arie de Muynck wrote:
On 2020-06-07 14:07, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 6/6/2020 3:35 PM, Pimpom wrote:
This should work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ablk0cc0iqfhsta/Load%20presence%20indicator.png?dl=0


Diodes D1-D4 must be able to handle the load, including startup current.

I like it.  KISS.  A small point: only need one of the D3/D4 pair.

That would produce a small amount of DC in the pump voltage. Shaded pole
motors are very sensitive to that - with some DC you can easily use them
as brake. Better \"Keep It Symmetrical [and] Safer\".

Arie
Click to expand...

My pump is a dual capacitor type. A start cap with a timed disconnect, and a run capacitor. I bought some clamp type current transformers for it. I also added a few digital meters to be able to tell if it is running properly. For remote monitoring, I could add a transmitter, or fiber optic cable when I replace the underground power lines. I could monitor it from the house, if the same lines didn\'t power the laundry building and some outdoor outlets.

Here is what I bought:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=SCT-013-000&_sacat=0&_sop=15>
 
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...

Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

..
 
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...

Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

..
 
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 12:28 PM, amdx wrote:
On 6/7/2020 12:18 PM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 11:39:54 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/7/2020 8:30 AM, default wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 06:59:21 -0500, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 6/6/2020 10:51 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 6:17:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have a water pump in a remote location. Sometimes the pump (120
volts) line springs a leak and then runs all the time...

Remember the point is not that there is power in the line, but it
is to tell me that the pump is actually drawing current.

Get a Kill-a-Watt power monitor, and plug the pump in through
it.   You\'ll get
LOTS of information.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009MDBU?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1


Actually adding something at the power panel, though, is tricky;
nominally, your current
transformer solutions could go inside the breaker box, if they had
the right safety stamps,
but otherwise your insurance won\'t like the idea.



   I\'d like to see someone get fancy and develop a circuit that
starts a
beeper after the pump has been running an adjustable amount of time.
Even put a reset button on it, so if you know it\'s running for a
reason,
you can reset it for a second or third time period.
Beep, beep, beep, beep. (556)

                                     Mikek

A simple RC network charging a cap that switches a mosfet connected to
a piezo buzzer is all that takes.  When the charge on the cap reaches
the threshold voltage of the fet ~2-4V buzzer sounds, reset by putting
a pushbutton across the cap to discharge it fast.


  Care to make changes or pick some values? I looks like a big cap, over
1000uf. I added a discharge resistor, may help, but high value.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0wno1zhlptzc8e/pump%20beeper.jpg?dl=0

                                        Mikek

I donno what time delay you desire but one of the beauties of mosfets
is that the gate requires no current (in the picoamp range) so you can
use high value resistors to good effect.

It is pretty much the same deal with the input to the comparators of a
555.  The input current is very low.

What I\'m saying is that if you want really long time delays, the
mosfet and 555 face the same limitations, and you\'d still resort to
counters etc. to increase the delay.

If your concern was the threshold of the 555 is 2/3 VCC and with a 15V
supply that\'s 10V.  That would be an argument favoring a 555 IMO.
There are work-arounds for the mosfet but I might opt for a 555 then
too.

0r use a programmable controller chip.  Those things can drag out time
delays into the decades without worrying about RC networks, capacitor
leakage, capacitor aging etc.. (for a cost of a buck or two, and they
sip current in the microamp range while waiting to time out)

For instance if a hibernate command is 8 minutes (for the sake of
argument) and you\'re allowed to count 8 bits that\'s 17 hours, if you
want to multiply that by another 8 bits that\'s 90 days, and you can
keep doing that....


 Ya, he said pumping water from the lake, I assume he uses it to water
the lawn, so the pump might run an hour or more.
 Even with a 1 Meg resistor, that\'s a big cap. would help to drop the
Vcc to 5V.

At one time I had button near my thermostat with an RC circuit that
turned on my air conditioner for a switchable 2 or 3 minutes. Just
enough to get comfortable. After the time out, it reverted back to the
thermostat. It used a a latch type relay.


I reduced the Voltage to 5V and added an In Use Indicator.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/712o2653q1q1r67/pump%20beeper%205v%20with%20in%20use%20indicator.jpg?dl=0
Click to expand...

Should work. Practically, when using high turns ratio transformers,
it isn\'t a bad idea to put some kind of voltage snubber just in case a
spike comes along the primary side.

I had a nearby or direct lightening strike that took out the modem,
TV, VOIP, all the low voltage LED grounds lighting, one ground fault
interrupter, and tripped two circuit breakers in the panel.

..
 
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