OT: Dogbert's New Ruling Class Newsletter, April, 2005

[Winfield Hill]

Scott Stephens wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:

Scott Adams promotes communism in Dilbert, I see, OK, got it.

I didn't say that. Why do you want to put words in my mouth? Your
left-leaning Democrat sensibility offended by some dark, ugly truth?

Insults aside, you said, "the typical scoffer mentality Scott Adams
and South Park use to influence public opinion. ... All scoffers that
promote communist bullshit by ridicule rather than rational argument."

Excuse me, I stand corrected, you said that Scott Adams promotes
"communist bullshit" in Dilbert. So communist bullshit rather
than communism, per se. A fine point. OK, I see now, got it.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:12:12 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:

John Woodgate wrote:

(concerning http://www.neodruid.net/DNRC-Newsletter-200504 ).

OK, it's ISO-8859-8. I got the -8 right.

But why?

Nevertheless, IE6 rendered the page as blank, and invited me to install
extra decoders, which I did. Then the text appeared.

Worked fine in IE6 and Firefox on my computer, but then again I always
tell Windows to support all languages when I install it, because I do a
lot of work in other languages.

There are two interesting questions. First, why is the page sent as
ISO-8859-8 (Hebrew visual order)?

Maybe because my httpd.conf has these lines:

AddCharset ISO-8859-8 .iso8859-8
AddDefaultCharset ISO-8859-8

And I've never really delved deeply enough into learning how to configure
it "properly".

I wonder if I should comment them out? If so, should I replace them
with something like "ISO-8859-1"?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:10:21 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net
wrote (in <pan.2005.04.15.01.26.12.435703@example.net&gt about 'Dogbert's
New Ruling Class Newsletter, April, 2005', on Fri, 15 Apr 2005:
But it's just plain old ordinary ASCII text - maybe that's a fancy new
name for ASCII or something, because file reports it as "UTF-8 Unicode
English Text"

Nevertheless, IE6 rendered the page as blank, and invited me to install
extra decoders, which I did. Then the text appeared.

In a response to Guy Macon, I mentioned that it's very probably a
misconfiguration in my httpd.conf (Apache server config file), and
haven't decided yet if it's important enough to put any more time
in on.

Maybe I could write a little HTML to wrap it in a couple of those
&lt;tty&gt;&lt;/tty&gt; or <pre></pre> tags. That's less work than plowing
through the instructions, although I am an advocate of writing
web pages "right", so my server should be configured to spit
out the right stuff.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:10:21 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise &lt;richgrise@example.net
wrote (in &lt;pan.2005.04.15.01.26.12.435703@example.net&gt about 'Dogbert's
New Ruling Class Newsletter, April, 2005', on Fri, 15 Apr 2005:
But it's just plain old ordinary ASCII text - maybe that's a fancy new
name for ASCII or something, because file reports it as "UTF-8 Unicode
English Text"

Nevertheless, IE6 rendered the page as blank, and invited me to install
extra decoders, which I did. Then the text appeared.

I've taken out the "AddDefaultCharset ISO8859-8" line in my config file -
how's it look now?
http://www.neodruid.net/DNRC-Newsletter-200504
http://www.neodruid.net/DNRC-Newsletter-200504.txt
Actually, the second one is a symbolic ("soft") link, just to see if
appending '.txt' makes any difference.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:34:23 +1200, Ken Taylor wrote:

"Keith Williams" &lt;krw@att.bizzzz&gt; wrote in message
....
Dilbert has _the_ basic element of humor, a grain of truth. We've all
been Dilberted, at one time or another. I see Dilbert as a high-tech
Simpsons.

If you can't see that Scott Adams is ridiculing poor management, rather
than promoting it (as Scott Stephens seems to do) then you're one dismal
example of a brain carrying organism.

I find this to be kind of a non-sequitur. How does seeing Dilbert as a
high-tech Simpsons give you the impression that Keith Williams "can't
see that Scott Adams is ridiculing poor management".

They both ridicule stupidity, just with a different style.

Cheers!
Rich

"O wad some Power the giftie gie us,
To see oursels as others see us..."
- Robert Burns - http://www.poetry-online.org/burns_to_a_louse.htm

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:23:15 -0600, the renowned Scott Stephens
&lt;scottxs@comcast.net&gt; wrote:

Ken Taylor wrote:

If you can't see that Scott Adams is ridiculing poor management, rather than
promoting it (as Scott Stephens seems to do)

How do I "seem" to be promoting poor management?

then you're one dismal example
of a brain carrying organism.

Some dismal examples of brain carrying organisms suffer from delusions,
twisting and reading in what isn't there because they don't like the
content.

Scott

I think one of the things that makes _The Simpsons_ appealing is that
Homer is basically good. He doesn't cheat on his wife. He's bumbling,
and lazy but basically tries to do the best for his family. Compare,
for example, to _Family Guy_, where "Peter" is amoral and greedy, and
his family (including the dog and especially the baby "Stewy" are far
worse.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Winfield Hill]

I'll try to be more polite and civil, but I'm going to call a
left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer
(if not a communist).

And who exactly are you calling a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer?


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 15 Apr 2005 18:01:00 -0700, Winfield Hill
&lt;hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu&gt; wrote:

I'll try to be more polite and civil, but I'm going to call a
left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer
(if not a communist).

And who exactly are you calling a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer?

If the shoe fits.... ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Scott Stephens]

Kryten wrote:

"Scott Stephens" &lt;scottxs@comcast.net&gt; wrote in message

Kryten wrote:

There is a phenomena...known as the "Double Whammy". First the target is
subtly insulted. If they protest, you claim to be "just joking".

So all the people who buy his books and enjoy them for wry humour are in
fact being subtly insulted. So subtly that they don't notice it?

No, its *you* that say I am misunderstanding Scott Adams "humor" as
politically-motivated derision.

Are users of violent pornography "insulted" by the "artist" when they
get off on it? Drug addicts "insulted" by the pushers they patronize?

The 2nd insult is being accused of not being able to discern what is
serious and what is a joke


Well that had crossed my mind.
Not that I wish to insult you.

eh eh, oh no, ..., No! You wouldn't want to insult me or insinuate I'm a
neurotic, tormented, Nazi, fascist, paranoid, militant loon, now would
you? ;-)

I find certain people often do this, not overtly realizing they do it. If
they don't claim to be "just joking", they claim they were misunderstood.

So you you've met lots of people who have cracked a joke, you've found an
offensive meaning, told them so, they've said "just joking" or "you've
misunderstood".

Not *lots* of people, Kryten. Just *certain* people, Kryten. ;-)

Maybe they are all out to be nasty to you for some inexplicable reason.

Maybe they were just joking and you assumed some malicious reasons.

Perhaps because I'm paranoid?

Do you find these folks avoid talking to you afterwards?
Maybe they're all out to ostracise you, but then again maybe they are just
all tired of being accused of being abusive communist bastards if they crack
a joke.

Perhaps its death rays from the Black Helicopters.

Both Scott Adams and Whoopy Goldberg have publicly advocated ridicule of
political or religious opponents


Let's face it, most political and religious figures are rightly worthy of
ridicule.

Jay Leno and David Letterman are equal-opportunity comedians. They
pretty much attack and give both sides hell. But not the scoffers I'm
denouncing. Scott Adams has a pretty equal list of villains in one DNRC
newsletter, he trys to look neutral in regard to specific people and
institutions. But when he mocks individuals and religion, it pretty much
nails him as left-leaning, because the left is behind the efforts to
purge "values" and morality from the culture.

But suffice to say if God shows up to fix any one problem, where does he
stop fixing things?


Erm, whenever he sees fit - being the smartest entity in the universe.

If, as you say, he is the smartest entity in the universe, why do you
question his will? I've heard it explained this way; God allowing evil
things to happen is like a painful inoculation that makes a child cry,
but is for their own good. God is much smarter than any parent, and we
comparably, are more ignorant as an infant.

I'm not expecting God to fix everything down to a broken TV.

Just the biggies. War, disease, rape, murder, incest, mental illness...

Pain is a relative sensation. Some people are very sensitive, other,
having endured tremendous hardship, no long let little things bother
them. I'm sure some people would lose their minds and suicide if there
TV were broken.

How could a good God tell an innocent, crying child their broken toy
didn't rank, didn't merit attention and action? Isn't that pretty much
what people start out as, and at the core still are? Big crying babies
that expect to be satisfied?

Well he did wipe out an entire city (Sodom) for the sin of sodomy.
Seems a bit over the top, if they were mutually consenting.
There must have been some innocent kids there.

I didn't know you were a fundamentalist. I often wonder how I could be
so stupid as to have believed all that stuff, until I catch myself
taking for granted its true, like I was taught as a child.

Believing in nothing is no way to live life.


Just because one rejects implausible beliefs (God, Santa Claus, alternative
medicine) doesn't mean one believes in nothing else. I don't believe in God
but I do believe in living a good life: I don't murder people, steal, or
hurl abuse at strangers sharing something they found funny.

So denouncing political propaganda and pornography ranks with murder and
theft? Oh my, you must really think ill of me! If you don't believe in
the Divine 10 commandments, what do you consider "good"? What everybody
believes is "normal"? If everybody voted to institute slavery and murder
Jews, would you say "Amen brothers!" and start following the herd? What
is your basis for morality?

If you want to rationally object to God, there are better, mature and
rational objections.

That is the situation I came to understand. They go around dropping big
nuclear bombs on planets, such as the one they got the alien from.


The end of the story hinges on the bomb conversation, so they had to have a
reason for carrying them.

Oh Please! Such a lame excuse! But, Alas, you force me to do a web
search and I find (the horror!) I'm wrong and you're right!

http://www.allscifi.com/Topics/Info_3599.asp
mission to blow up unstable planets
detonate unstable, dangerous stars
detonate dying suns
destroy "unstable planets" which might threaten future colonization
(http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Highrise/3756/jc/dks.htm)

I picked a bad fer instance. But there are militant, genocidal,
nihilistic aliens. I know there are! Saberhagens Berserkers, Dr. Who's
Daleks. I'm sure there is more. The universe is no doubt full of them!

Don't think, just laugh? Don't take life (yourself) seriously? That's no
way to live.


Works for me, I'm happy, I get on with most people.

It didn't work for me, I tried it, wasn't happy, and didn't get on with
most people.

It's a question of balance. You have to find it between taking nothing
seriously, and taking everything too seriously.

Yep.

Nietzsche experienced a lot of horror, yet still depicts heroic life.


The main horror of having syphilis eating his body was self inflicted.
That's not heroism.

That was tragic. I wonder how many people join the military, and shortly
lose their virginity to the first camp whores, in spite of their better
judgment, so as not to endure the ridicule of their comrades? I would
like to think that couldn't of happened to me, but I was so horny and
eager to smoke and drink with the pack as a young man, I'm not so sure.

It isn't fair to judge the past century by the standards of our century.


I think in many cases, it is.
For example, murder and religious/political homicide are unethical now, and
I feel entirely at ease judging Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc as very bad
people indeed.

Yes, and we can judge Jefferson and Washington as slave owners too. They
didn't free them on principle, and cut their economic throats when their
competitors refused to free their slaves.

But you'll note the survivalists in Atlas Shrugged swore an oath not to
expect others to live for them.


I'm less optimistic about the survivalists outside of fiction.

The road warriors, post-men, the nihilistic loners, yep. The men of
honor that cooperate with like-minded neighbors, the pilgrims and
refugees fleeing tyranny and oppression - they are "survivalists" too.

You just seem to be so terribly unhappy with the world for some reason.

Fraud, meanness and stupidity. Evil.

There's a lot of it about.
If you let it turn you into a scowling unhappy bitter twisted soul, hurling
abuse into your computer, then you've let the disease manifest a symptom.

I'm expressing my convictions, denouncing the destroyers of
civilization. Perhaps some people don't recognize degrading pornography
and subtle political propaganda when they see it.

"Normal people"? Is that a worthy aspiration, to be "Normal"? Is one
"Normal" by polling one's peers to make value judgments and conforming?


Normal as in being a polite citizen of the net and being able to take a joke
at face value.

If I don't agree with you, I'm not a polite citizen of the net, and if I
don't laugh at what you call a joke, take it at face value, I'm not
"normal"?

I don't want to be "normal". But I know I shouldn't offend you, but
respectfully dissent.

Normal as in not being intense and creepy.

Nietzsche was intense and creepy. I like intense and creepy. I don't
look it (often wish I had the Ozzy look), but I feel intense and creepy
=) Bwhahhahahaahhaa...

Just imagine if you posted a link to something that tickled you, only to
have someone ranting what an evil bastard you are. It must be quite scary
and disconcerting. I mean, how can they tell that you are not a dangerous
paranoid angry abusive psychopath?

I would get scared if physical threats were made. I would tune out. Go
find a fundamentalist Islamic group to accuse of militant intolerance,
not rowdy Libertarian Americans! But being intense over core values I
hold as a virtue. Not taking things seriously that aught to be taken
seriously, like politics and philosophy, consequently art and
expression, I think is a vice.

I'm not the only one to cuss and spew labels around. And if I want to
label and cuss someone, I do it (then often regret and apologize). I
don't make deceitful insinuations like you have about me. I think that's
dishonest and dirty.

We'd like to try nudging you to a door for you to turn the key.

Take care you don't "nudge" a porcupine that wants to be left free and
independent.


There you are again. I mean a polite helping hand, you see a bullying shove
to conformity.

Yep. We understand one another. I don't want your "help" being "normal".
I like my opinions, my intensity, and my creepy =)

By all means remain free and independent.

Just less ranting at people trying to share things that made them laugh.

You want to hear ranting about jokes and humor? Go find an ethnic or
religious minority, one of the sacrosanct victim classes, and make an
ethnic joke. See what happens! Insist you were just good-natured teasing
them!

Some people just don't take a joke well, because they've been
victimized. I've been (still probably am) persecuted for being
different. I feel towards left-leaning scoffers the same as a
victim-class about ethnic jokes.

I don't believe people that value being "normal" are really happy anyways.
If they are happy, it happiness borrowed on others, not created in
themselves. Like a laugh-track on a crappy TV show, it gets old and stale
fast.


I know that depressed people

There you go agin insinuating I'm sick. Oh please!

see nothing wrong with their own world view and

it is everybody else who is wrong. If other people are happy it's because
they're too stupid to know better and their happiness isn't real anyway.
That would mean they'd got something right and you hadn't.

Shyeeeiiit!

And you say "We"? Are "We" royalty Kryten? Or do you want to make me feel
alone and isolated, and you represent popular opinion?


Hmm, well 'we' meaning everyone who isn't leaping to agree with your
postings.
I've not seen anyone say "right on Scott, you've spotted the commie bastards
too!"

Shall I go find some? I suspect I could go to libertarian, Objectivist
and religious forums, make some people aware of Scott Adams "jokes"
about individuals and religious, who would then post a "right on!".

But I'm comfortable standing alone. In fact, I'm proud I can!

On the other hand, quite a few people opine you are reading far too much
into simple cartoons.

I'm proud I'm sensitive to subtly too!

I'm not trying to make you feel alone and isolated, maybe you already feel
that way.

I often do. So few, so very few can appreciate Nietzsche or Rand's
heroic sense of life, rationality and morality.

Hurling abuse at people isn't going to improve your lot.

Conforming with the herd would improve my lot in the short run. Till the
herd plunges over the cliff.

If I wanted to make you feel alone and isolated, I could do my bit by
ignoring you.

Perhaps there are better things for both of us to do than pointlessly argue.

However, I've been through bad times when I felt knee deep in assholes, and
I've known people scowl themselves into nervous breakdowns. They recover,
but are never as strong as they were before. Just like a cup handle that's
been repaired.

I think my scowling is cathartic, like Adam's wry humor you appreciate
so much. I get to see how you think and what your values are, and you
test mine.

So on the contrary, I have spent some of my life engaging you in dialogue
hoping you'll become happier, and that as you feel less inclined to vent
your spleen then it will make everyone happier.

Just admonish me to be polite and respectful. Don't waste your time
insinuating I'm nuts because I don't share your taste in "humor" and
philosophy.

but I'm going to call a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning
nihilistic scoffer (if not a communist).


That's like an alcoholic saying I'll try not to be an abusive drunk but I'm
going to carry on being abusive when I see fit. Except without the alcohol
involved.

So I'm "like" an alcoholic drunk because I will denounce left-leaning
nihilistic scoffers? Oh please!

Such sophistry! Lord have mercy! =)

If you don't like what you read, then read something else.
If you found yourself wading through sewage, you don't stay there wallowing
in it cursing everyone, or go on the net telling everyone what a huge pool
of shit you have found.

Yep, I do! That's me! Creepy and intense! =)

Get out, clean it off, go someplace nicer. Use your

superior intellect to find some real happiness, then tell everyone about it.

Ok, Nietzsche! Rand! Alive! Real! Creepy! Intense!

Everyone has plenty of their own shit to deal with.

Well, you've dealt with me, haven't you? ;-)

Scott

--
**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot &amp; More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

There is no giant behind the devastation of the world—only a shriveled
creature with the wizened
face of a child who is out to blow up the kitchen because he cannot
steal his cookies and eat them, too. - Ayn Rand
**********************************

 

[Scott Stephens]

Winfield Hill wrote:

I'll try to be more polite and civil, but I'm going to call a
left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer
(if not a communist).


And who exactly are you calling a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer?

Scott Adams, and the other comedians I listed, not you.

Scott

--
**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot &amp; More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

There is no giant behind the devastation of the world—only a shriveled
creature with the wizened
face of a child who is out to blow up the kitchen because he cannot
steal his cookies and eat them, too. - Ayn Rand
**********************************

 

[Scott Stephens]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

I think one of the things that makes _The Simpsons_ appealing is that
Homer is basically good. He doesn't cheat on his wife. He's bumbling,
and lazy but basically tries to do the best for his family.

Uh, I haven't watched the Simpsons lately, and I think they've cleaned
it a bit a year or so back. But I'm pretty sure Homer has done dishonest
things; lying, cheating and stealing. Bart certainly does.

They are in the class of "stupid" people that practice a pragmatic
morality, in contrast to the "bad" Mr. Burns that abuse people, and profit.

A small lie, theft or cheat is still a lie, theft or cheat. (Man to
woman) "Would you make love to me for a million dollars? Well, now that
we've established what you are, lets negotiate a realistic price!".

At least you don't see Homer and Bart successful cheaters; the
consequences of their actions find them out or they somehow fail.

Compare,

for example, to _Family Guy_, where "Peter" is amoral and greedy, and
his family (including the dog and especially the baby "Stewy" are far
worse.

Yep, the Simpsons is tasteful compared to the morally nihilistic South
Park and Family Guy.

Scott

--
**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot &amp; More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

There is no giant behind the devastation of the world—only a shriveled
creature with the wizened
face of a child who is out to blow up the kitchen because he cannot
steal his cookies and eat them, too. - Ayn Rand
**********************************

 

[Kryten]

"Scott Stephens" &lt;scottxs@comcast.net&gt; wrote in message
news:6cedneOKg50cCP3fRVn-jg@comcast.com...

Kryten wrote:

No, its *you* that say I am misunderstanding Scott Adams "humour" as
politically-motivated derision.

Correct.

eh eh, oh no, ..., No! You wouldn't want to insult me or insinuate I'm a
neurotic, tormented, Nazi, fascist, paranoid, militant loon, now would
you? ;-)

Nope, because you could well be on the news as yet another serial killer.
Man leaves trail of dead cartoonists and comedians!

Not *lots* of people, Kryten. Just *certain* people, Kryten. ;-)

And they're all going down on a little mental list of people you hate with
murderous intensity.

Perhaps because I'm paranoid?

Yep, that's one conclusion.

Perhaps its death rays from the Black Helicopters.

Pass the tinfoil helmets.

Scott Adams mocks individuals and religion

If those individuals or religions do really stupid things they deserve to be
mocked.

it pretty much nails him as left-leaning, because the left is behind the
efforts to purge "values" and morality from the culture.

So other people are not up to your own high standards.
And it's not because they are all individual and made up their own minds,
but in fact a huge communist conspiracy...

If, as you say, he is the smartest entity in the universe, why do you
question his will?

I don't, because I don't believe there are any supernatural beings like
that.

I've heard it explained this way; God allowing evil things to happen is
like a painful inoculation that makes a child cry, but is for their own
good.

What good does an innocent murder victim gain?

If anyone else benefits, that would be unjust.

God is much smarter than any parent, and we comparably, are more ignorant
as an infant.

IMHO he doesn't exist.

Pain is a relative sensation. Some people are very sensitive, other,
having endured tremendous hardship, no long let little things bother them.
I'm sure some people would lose their minds and suicide if there TV were
broken.

If a guy knows someone is being murdered or raped, and tells the court "I
didn't get involved because they'll start wanting me to fix their TVs next",
that guy would rightly be considered a bad guy. Sensible people have a sense
of proportion, life is not all nothing vs. everything.

How could a good God tell an innocent, crying child their broken toy
didn't rank, didn't merit attention and action? Isn't that pretty much
what people start out as, and at the core still are? Big crying babies
that expect to be satisfied?

No, not most people I've met.

I didn't know you were a fundamentalist.

I'm not. If you asked me how many gods are false, I would say all of them.

I often wonder how I could be so stupid as to have believed all that
stuff, until I catch myself taking for granted its true, like I was taught
as a child.

But now you've grown up, you can believe there is a huge commie conspiracy
manifesting itself through comedians and cartoons?

So denouncing political propaganda and pornography ranks with murder and
theft?

No, just listing some example bad behaviour.

You see it as political propaganda, I don't think many other people do.

If you don't believe in the Divine 10 commandments

I don't believe they came from God, but that does not allow

Things are good or bad by their nature, not because God says so.

what do you consider "good"?

Avoiding murder, incest, rape etc at the extreme end and not ranting abuse
at strangers on the internet somewhat down the scale.

What everybody believes is "normal"?

By and large most normal people might concur with the shortlist above.

If everybody voted to institute slavery and murder Jews, would you say
"Amen brothers!" and start following the herd?

Of course not, but then normal people aren't voting for that.

If they did, you'd have good reasons against it.

But, Alas, you force me to do a web search and I find (the horror!) I'm
wrong and you're right!

http://www.allscifi.com/Topics/Info_3599.asp
mission to blow up unstable planets
detonate unstable, dangerous stars
detonate dying suns
destroy "unstable planets" which might threaten future colonization
(http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Highrise/3756/jc/dks.htm)

If you've made a mistake about a movie, maybe you could have made a mistake
about comedy?
Just a thought.

I picked a bad for instance. But there are militant, genocidal, nihilistic
aliens. I know there are! Saberhagens Berserkers, Dr. Who's Daleks. I'm
sure there is more. The universe is no doubt full of them!

Of course, they are there as mere plot devices for the sake of an
interesting movie that people would go to see. Stories are often portrayals
of good versus evil. The good life forms need some evil ones to win over.

Would anyone pay to see Daleks turning up with hot tea and cream cakes?
&lt;dalek voice&gt;WOULD YOU LIKE MILK AND SUGAR, HUMAN?&lt;/dalek voice&gt;
It is so laughable that somebody made an advert suggesting their product
might even make daleks nice. They had a pair of daleks following some Hare
Krishna devotees down the high street, chanting &lt;dalek voice&gt;LOVE AND PEACE!
LOVE AND PEACE!&lt;/dalek voice&gt;.

So there it is, nasty aliens are not there as part of a conspiracy to
disrupt interplanetary genocide, but to fill movie seats.


You could write a script where the aliens are commie bastards who try to
take over the world not by a special-effects laden shoot-em-ups but by
subliminal political propaganda disguised as cartoons. The hero of the movie
is one the few to notice the vast numbers of commies being elected all over
America.

I don't think you'd be able to sell the script. Hollywood can sell aliens in
spaceships, but not commie conspiracies. Not since Commies 'R' USSR went
tits up.

It didn't work for me, I tried it, wasn't happy, and didn't get on with
most people.

Okay, so you fail to get on with people and it is overwhelmingly their
fault?

That was tragic. I wonder how many people join the military, and shortly
lose their virginity to the first camp whores, in spite of their better
judgment, so as not to endure the ridicule of their comrades? I would like
to think that couldn't of happened to me, but I was so horny and eager to
smoke and drink with the pack as a young man, I'm not so sure.

Ah, so you have something in common with Nietzsche.

I'm expressing my convictions, denouncing the destroyers of civilization.
Perhaps some people don't recognize degrading pornography and subtle
political propaganda when they see it.

I seen people being antisocial and stupid here, but I don't blame it on a
conspiracy.

They're just jerks!

If I don't agree with you, I'm not a polite citizen of the net,

Nobody objects to you disagreeing, only your vehement claims of communist
propaganda.

and if I don't laugh at what you call a joke, take it at face value, I'm
not "normal"?

Dude, you are not normal.
And not in a healthy polite way either.

I don't want to be "normal".

It has been noticed.

Nietzsche was intense and creepy.
I like intense and creepy.

It has been noticed.

Much as you enjoy being that way, other people do not enjoy being subjected
to it.

I would get scared if physical threats were made.

Well, most people get nervous around socially inappropriate behaviour.
If you're having a good natured chat about electronics, someone cracks a
joke over the barbeque, and a complete stranger hurls abuse about how you're
an evil bastard,

I would tune out.

Well can't you just tune out humour/comedy/propaganda?

find a fundamentalist Islamic group to accuse of militant intolerance,
not rowdy Libertarian Americans!

Maybe they think they're just being rowdy.

But being intense over core values I hold as a virtue.
Not taking things seriously that aught to be taken seriously, like
politics and philosophy, consequently art and expression, I think is a
vice.

Maybe if people didn't take politics seriously, there might be a lot less
hurling abuse and bullets:

"Adolf, excellent ranting, it was so funny. Love that silly moustache, and
those ridiculous ideas about mass murder. That would really make it hard to
find a decent bagel or a comedian here. Calm down and have some more beer
and sausage"

I'm not the only one to cuss and spew labels around.

No, but you may have the least justification.

I don't make deceitful insinuations like you have about me.

I'm not insinuating anything.
I'm merely suggesting that you might want to ask your friends if they think
you might be a little out of order. That's assuming you haven't been so
intense and creepy that the only friends you have left are in
alt.conspiracy.commie-bastards.

Yep. We understand one another. I don't want your "help" being "normal".

I like my opinions, my intensity, and my creepy =)

I'm sure you do.

I'm sure other people do not.

You want to hear ranting about jokes and humour?

No.

Go find an ethnic or religious minority, one of the sacrosanct victim
classes, and make an ethnic joke. See what happens! Insist you were just
good-natured teasing them!

Nope, because I have the social skills not to tell jokes like that with
people I don't know well.

Some people just don't take a joke well, because they've been victimized.
I've been (still probably am) persecuted for being different.

In what way? Your picture shows a someone who looks like a white middle
class Anglo-Saxon conservative American male. Not a well know minority
group.

If your being persecuted for the intense and creepy behaviour you don't want
to change, then maybe they feel you deserve it.

I've not seen anyone say "right on Scott, you've spotted the commie
bastards too!"

Shall I go find some? I suspect I could go to libertarian, Objectivist and
religious forums, make some people aware of Scott Adams "jokes" about
individuals and religious, who would then post a "right on!".

But I'm comfortable standing alone. In fact, I'm proud I can!

Well if you enjoy being an intense and creepy guy standing alone,
perhaps you could do it somewhere alone?

I'm proud I'm sensitive to subtly too!

Some people are hypersensitive to peanuts.
One whiff and they go into massive shock.
It is not a good thing, nor is it an evil conspiracy by peanut selling
organisations.

I often do. So few, so very few can appreciate Nietzsche or Rand's heroic
sense of life, rationality and morality.

Maybe because they mainly appeal to a minority of people who want to be
intense and creepy.

Most people don't consider it a good lifestyle choice.

Perhaps there are better things for both of us to do than pointlessly
argue.

You could try arguing with a trained psychiatric counsellor.
He could be a commie bastard wanting to cure you of anti-communism,
but more likely he will let carry on as long as you pay him.
Maybe you can convince him of the conspiracy, using your superior intellect
and logic.

I think my scowling is cathartic

As much as you think it makes you feel better, it isn't making anyone else
feel that way.
Getting it out of your system puts it into ours.

Just admonish me to be polite and respectful.

It hasn't helped so far, and you've said you want to carry on as you are.

Don't waste your time insinuating I'm nuts because I don't share your
taste in "humour" and philosophy.

Lots of people have different tastes, that doesn't make them nuts.

Having an extreme over-reaction to lightweight humour is.

For example, would you read Charlie Brown as a boy exploring the childhood
trials and joys of everyman, or as the persistent abusive social humiliation
of a kid for the entertainment of a cruel public?

Or Garfield - a big fat cat bloated by a parasitic relationship,
representing the burden imposed by socialist welfare systems. Why that
little orange commie hairy bastard!

The Flintstones: a savage parody of the all-American way of life, portraying
them as cavemen! Outrageous! Commie bastard cartoon animators Hannavich
Barberaski!

Yep, I do! That's me! Creepy and intense! =)

Do you really think you can go on being that way and still feel you should
be liked and respected?

Or does being disliked make you feel more of a heroic martyr?

Everyone has plenty of their own shit to deal with.

Well, you've dealt with me, haven't you? ;-)

I don't think you're shit, but a guy who is unhappy, angry and alone.

I've taken the time to converse with you (so you are less alone) and
politely suggest that it you might not actually be the focus of a massive
conspiracy to erode the values of the world as you wish it to be.

If you choose to continue being as you are then that is your responsibility.

If you want the right to find certain cartoons violently offensive, okay.
Equally, everyone else has the right to find them quietly enjoyable without
a torrent of intimidating aggressive abuse.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Jim Thompson wrote...

On 15 Apr 2005 18:01:00 -0700, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu&gt; wrote:

I'll try to be more polite and civil, but I'm going to call a
left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer
(if not a communist).

And who exactly are you calling a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer?

If the shoe fits.... ROTFLMAO!

You enjoy a laugh at someone else's expense. I'm left-leaning, and
proud of it, but I'm no nihilistic scoffer, as you very well know.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 16 Apr 2005 06:39:56 -0700, Winfield Hill
&lt;hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu&gt; wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

On 15 Apr 2005 18:01:00 -0700, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu&gt; wrote:

I'll try to be more polite and civil, but I'm going to call a
left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer
(if not a communist).

And who exactly are you calling a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer?

If the shoe fits.... ROTFLMAO!

You enjoy a laugh at someone else's expense. I'm left-leaning, and
proud of it, but I'm no nihilistic scoffer, as you very well know.

"Nihilism is the belief that all Republican values are baseless..."
;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:37:17 -0600, Scott Stephens wrote:

Yep, the Simpsons is tasteful compared to the morally nihilistic South
Park and Family Guy.

I guess we all know who you're working for now:
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/southpark.htm

Have you been following the "Go To Heaven" threads, too?
--
Good Luck!
Pig Bladder on a Stick

 

[Scott Stephens]

Kryten wrote:

"Scott Stephens" &lt;scottxs@comcast.net&gt; wrote in message

Kryten wrote:

You wouldn't want to insult me or insinuate I'm a neurotic, tormented, Nazi, fascist, paranoid, militant loon, now would
you? ;-)


Nope, because you could well be on the news as yet another serial killer.
Man leaves trail of dead cartoonists and comedians!

If there is a market for their foolishness, more would just take their
place. Its the left, BTW, the ilk of Ted Kazinski, and the several
leftist comedians have "joked" Republican politicians should be killed.
Conservatives don't do that.

Not *lots* of people, Kryten. Just *certain* people, Kryten. ;-)

And they're all going down on a little mental list of people you hate with
murderous intensity.

I should keep a list to prove they exist. A "vast left-wing conspiracy"
to match Hillary's "vast right-wing conspiracy".

Now you say I hate with murderous intensity. No, just loathing and
disgust, and fear, for leftists advocate theft, and occasionally
assassination.

it pretty much nails him as left-leaning, because the left is behind the
efforts to purge "values" and morality from the culture.


So other people are not up to your own high standards.

No, Libertarians and I do not advocate the imposition of moral standards
by law, I leave that to Nature. Besides, I'm more liberal than
conservative in tolerating the stupidity and vice of self-destructive fools.

I'm not. If you asked me how many gods are false, I would say all of them.

The universe exists, it has a quantity of space-time real estate, and it
operates on Principle, which we, to the best of our knowledge, describe
by physical law. This is very close to eastern religious traditional
notions of "God".

Science and philosophy evolved from religion, the lexicon (god, soul,
spirit, et) has been politically corrupted. But I don't want to discuss
religion further.

But now you've grown up, you can believe there is a huge commie conspiracy
manifesting itself through comedians and cartoons?

what do you consider "good"?

Avoiding murder, incest, rape etc at the extreme end and not ranting abuse
at strangers on the internet somewhat down the scale.

Would you kill someone trying to kill you? Would that be good? Are you a
pacifist that would never fight a war? Do you advocate government theft
(taxation) from one group to another, for whatever whim a politician
offers the favored interest as a bribe?

You know where I'm headed. You've made arguments based in social-proof,
that popularity, "normal", is a moral standard. The horrors of any
communist; Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, et. rationalize their atrocities with
the "good intentions" of the public interest.

So do the religious, BTW. Each religion, inculcated as children or by
dynamics of a conversion experience, develop a cognitive and emotional
dynamic which makes a sense of their God real, and popular, normal too.

You, in your resort to popular sentiment, are as religious as those that
believe morality is based on the traditional beliefs in divine
(Biblical/Koran/Torah) revelation.

What everybody believes is "normal"?

By and large most normal people might concur with the shortlist above.

Ah, I see again, social-proof. "Most *normal* people". "Popularity".

You don't know what you believe or why. Aren't your a shallow poseur,
living the life you think the average of those you see around you live?

Been there, done that as a teenager. Then I tried to be a good
Christian, because they claimed the Bible was the universal, objective
way, truth and light. Not the depraved fashions, the whims of the mob
that defines what is "normal" and what is "deviant".

Then, after seeing conflict and mere men practicing mere tradition a bit
more politely, but still with selfish delusion, I dared to start using
Reason and logic.

Perhaps you aught to grow up and start thinking too. Its hard, and
scary, and takes courage and the shallow poseurs you abandon will hate
you for dishonoring and abandoning them to their ignorance and
depravity, but its never to late to reclaim your soul from the city
gutter and live as an intelligent, rather than an emulating being.

Start here: http://www.businessballs.com/ifpoemrudyardkipling.htm

The poem epitomizes what it means to be independent and principled.

Oh, that I could "bear to hear the truth [I've] spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools"

I feel convicted! I have far to go.

I picked a bad for instance. But there are militant, genocidal, nihilistic
aliens. I know there are! Saberhagens Berserkers, Dr. Who's Daleks. I'm
sure there is more. The universe is no doubt full of them!

Of course, they are there as mere plot devices for the sake of an
interesting movie that people would go to see. Stories are often portrayals
of good versus evil. The good life forms need some evil ones to win over.

"For the sake of an interesting movie that people would go to see"?
You've got it backwards.

Artists make movies with that theme because those themes first are part
of the human experience of life, and as artists, its in their hearts and
they have a passion to express it. And people will see them because they
are part of the life experience, and are meaningful. If I program a
fractal generator to make pretty, intensely complicated and profound
patterns, or perhaps a film of a cloud chamber from a particle
accelerator, the novelty would wear off non-scientists and
mathematicians in several seconds, though those interested could spend
years or even a life-time contemplating them.

A pornographer makes pornography because he is full of lust and serves
those who are full of lust. "Modern" artists make ink splats for
poseurs, conditioned to believe the excuses celebrity critics and
professors give them for its "popularity".

So there it is, nasty aliens are not there as part of a conspiracy to
disrupt interplanetary genocide, but to fill movie seats.
....
The hero of the movie
is one the few to notice the vast numbers of commies being elected all over
America.
....
I don't think you'd be able to sell the script. Hollywood can sell aliens in
spaceships, but not commie conspiracies.

On the contrary, there is a commie-conspiracy movie in production! I'm
anticipating the film release of *ATLAS SHRUGGED* =)

I was disappointed to find "We the Living" was only available in
Italian. "The Fountainhead" was ok.

Though not directly about the shallowness of popularity and poseurs,
"Blade Runner" has some interesting similarities with Fountainhead;
Individuality, reverence for life, heroic struggle, government that
doesn't value "unpopular" lives, rather than objectively, defined as human.

Heroic, anti-communist, individualist themes do sell. "Lord of the
Rings" sold damn well!

In these films, anyone, not celebrities, if they choose independence and
courage, having a sense of the value of their own soul has the
opportunity for heroism or infamy if they fail.

Its too bad there are so many celebrity films, which feature one
super-human celebrity with mystic powers, held out to be worshiped by
his inferiors. Your typical Arnold Schwarzenegger film. Interesting,
even profound, but celebrity films don't make the possibility of heroic
courage any closer to us than fantasy.

Ah, so you have something in common with Nietzsche.

Yes; reverence for my soul, a creepy intensity, an innocent cynicism, a
desire to be a first-cause, a creator, like many engineers. A desire for
excellence, a disgust for the common and mediocre, a desire for a better
world (by different means). The will to continue in spite of crippling
suffering, even the will to power (for different values; not social
dominance). Yes, I'm proud to say I have much in common with Nietzsche,
I've learned from him.

But it took Rand to really bring those themes into focus; Rand is
explicit where Nietzsche is poetic.

And where do you find inspiration? The atheists that tell you you are a
meaningless, dirty bag of saltwater? The fashion page of the newspaper?

I would get scared if physical threats were made.


Well, most people get nervous around socially inappropriate behaviour.
If you're having a good natured chat about electronics, someone cracks a
joke over the barbeque, and a complete stranger hurls abuse about how you're
an evil bastard,

I didn't call you an evil bastard, there you go agin twisting my words.

I said the ilk of Whoopy Goldberg, George Carlin, Al Frankin, et. were
commie bastards. And I've said a couple times already, I'm going to
practice being more civil and dignified, and call them scoffing
left-leaning nihilists.

I would tune out.

Well can't you just tune out humour/comedy/propaganda?

I don't ask you to tune out your opinions. Some people I don't bother
reading the posts of. You could do the same.

You obviously enjoy argument as much as I. And I doubt any of us here
advocate or practice initiating violence against other. I hope anyways.

Some people just don't take a joke well, because they've been victimized.
I've been (still probably am) persecuted for being different.

If your being persecuted for the intense and creepy behaviour you don't want
to change, then maybe they feel you deserve it.

Ah, you mean my aesthetic and political opinions and my expression of
them? Persecution based on "unpopular" personality and opinion is deserved?

I doubt your a bully. Perhaps your one of those wimpy appeasers that
sucked-up to the bullys and cheered and spit with the mob as they were
beating up those that didn't conform to social fashions.

I think my scowling is cathartic


As much as you think it makes you feel better, it isn't making anyone else
feel that way. Getting it out of your system puts it into ours.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot y'all owned the Internet! How rude of me!

For example, would you read Charlie Brown as a boy exploring the childhood
trials and joys of everyman, or as the persistent abusive social humiliation
of a kid for the entertainment of a cruel public?

Charlie Brown is a depressed loser, who occasionally sees a ray of
sunshine. One comic strip (roughly paraphrasing) has Linus pointing to
the sky at the clouds, saying, 'Look! there's the Sistine Chapel, and
Moses parting the Red Sea, and...'. Charlie Brown looks at the clouds
and says, 'I just see a doggy, and a kitty, and a pony'.

That epitomizes Schultz' sense-of-life expressed in Peanuts.
Disappointing, small, frustrating, pathetic.

I prefer Linus to Charlie Brown. Notice, Charlie Brown was Schultz main
character, not Linus.

If you want the right to find certain cartoons violently offensive, okay.
Equally, everyone else has the right to find them quietly enjoyable without
a torrent of intimidating aggressive abuse.

Its not like I'm spamming thousands of e-mails to the uncaring, or
begging OT threads. I'm expressing an opinion, which you label
intimidating aggressive abuse.

That's more left-leaning sophistry; label dissenting opinions as
hate-speech to censor dissent.

You employ the same methods as left-leaning scoffers. You label those
that dissent as crazy, violent extremists spewing hate-speech and
intimidate them with threats of mob-intimidation.

"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
....
you'll be a Man, my son!" - Kipling, If

Perhaps you're right, it appears this place is desolate of kindred
spirits. I should leave, and you can inherit it. Mr. Kryten.

Scott

--
**********************************

DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot &amp; More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/

POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce

There is no giant behind the devastation of the world—only a shriveled
creature with the wizened
face of a child who is out to blow up the kitchen because he cannot
steal his cookies and eat them, too. - Ayn Rand
**********************************

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Pig Bladder
&lt;pigbladder@neodruid.net&gt; wrote (in
&lt;pan.2005.04.16.16.20.31.959875@neodruid.net&gt about 'OT: Dogbert's New
Ruling Class Newsletter, April, 2005', on Sat, 16 Apr 2005:

Are you one of the advocates of infinite, eternal sweat, toil,
hardship, pain and suffering, until you get your reward after you're
dead?

I'm not, but for some people that's life, without any choice.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Jim Thompson]

On 16 Apr 2005 06:39:56 -0700, Winfield Hill
&lt;hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu&gt; wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

On 15 Apr 2005 18:01:00 -0700, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu&gt; wrote:

I'll try to be more polite and civil, but I'm going to call a
left-leaning nihilistic scoffer a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer
(if not a communist).

And who exactly are you calling a left-leaning nihilistic scoffer?

If the shoe fits.... ROTFLMAO!

You enjoy a laugh at someone else's expense. I'm left-leaning, and
proud of it, but I'm no nihilistic scoffer, as you very well know.

I just thought of a good line....

So left-leaning that he needs a gyro to walk in a straight line ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Kryten]

"Scott Stephens" &lt;scottxs@comcast.net&gt; wrote in message
news:XJCdndRTfZKc1vzfRVn-oQ@comcast.com...

Its the left, BTW, the ilk of Ted Kazinski, and the several leftist
comedians have "joked" Republican politicians should be killed.

Again, they're not serious.
Hence they don't get arrested for incitement to violence.

Conservatives don't do that.

The right wing are pretty keen on the death penalty though.

I should keep a list to prove they exist. A "vast left-wing conspiracy" to
match Hillary's "vast right-wing conspiracy".

Please take it to the local police station with your other evidence and
demand they do something about all these goddamn commies and their
un-American activities.

I hate with loathing and disgust, and fear,
for leftists advocate theft, and occasionally assassination.

The inside of your head sounds a bleak place to be...

No, Libertarians and I do not advocate the imposition of moral standards
by law, I leave that to Nature. Besides, I'm more liberal than
conservative in tolerating the stupidity and vice of self-destructive
fools.

Apart from insulting them here.

The universe exists, it has a quantity of space-time real estate, and it
operates on Principle, which we, to the best of our knowledge, describe by
physical law. This is very close to eastern religious traditional notions
of "God".

Hmm..

Would you kill someone trying to kill you?

Perhaps but only with extreme reluctance.

Would that be good?

No, it would be the lesser of two evils.
The guy might be paranoid depressive for example.
He didn't chose to be mentally ill.

In that case I would try to disarm him with a kick in the love spuds, then
tie him to a comfy chair with tea and crumpets for elevenses.

Do I hear "oh no, not the comfy chair!"?

Are you a pacifist that would never fight a war?

Depends on the reason for the war.
Extremist genocidal ranters invading Poland, Norway etc. - yes,
unsubstantiated rumours of WMD - no.
political or religious arguments - no.

Do you advocate government theft (taxation) from one group to another,

Well some public services do benefit everyone even if indirectly.
Someone has to pay for the police, the fire service, the coast guard, the
border patrols, the passport agency, etc.

Civilised countries usually have some public health service and child
support.
You might complain while you were healthy and had no kids.
But most medical costs people incur in the 6 months before they die.
By that time it is no use wondering why there are no funds for that
expensive final care, or younger people educated enough to administer it.

for whatever whim a politician offers the favoured interest as a bribe?

Public money used for public benefit is good,
used for anything else is corruption.

Not all taxation is corrupt. It is everyone's duty to be keep any eye on
where it is spent and why. Complain about corruption, but that's no excuse
to stop paying everything.

You know where I'm headed.

I have suspicions.

You've made arguments based in social-proof,

No, in a completely f*kd society it is certainly possible for the majority
to be wrong (e.g. 1930s Germany). In a much healthier society ranting
extremists tend to be avoided and not propelled to positions of power.

Someone once joked that the USA is the only state to have gone from
barbarism to decadence without the intermediate stage of civilisation.
Personally I find most of the yanks I meet are okay, but then they tend to
be engineers who are generally intelligent and polite as a group anyway.

You don't know what you believe or why. Aren't your a shallow poseur,
living the life you think the average of those you see around you live?

No.

Been there, done that as a teenager. Then I tried to be a good Christian,
because they claimed the Bible was the universal, objective way, truth and
light. Not the depraved fashions, the whims of the mob that defines what
is "normal" and what is "deviant".

I never assimilated any religious indoctrination in the first place.

Nor did I take up smoking, shoplifting, sex with strangers, bullying,
racism, extreme politics, wasting money on wacky styles/haircuts, or any
other "trendy" activities.

I was a serious deviant, actually wanting to get my school work done and
spending my time on electronics and computing.

Closets are for clothes. But mainly for stashing computer bits and
magazines!

Perhaps you aught to grow up and start thinking too. Its hard, and scary,
and takes courage and the shallow poseurs you abandon will hate you for
dishonouring and abandoning them to their ignorance and depravity, but its
never to late to reclaim your soul from the city gutter and live as an
intelligent, rather than an emulating being.

Yeah, yeah, get off the cross..

I grew up in a place where the blue-collar kids despised anyone interested
in becoming smarter, and the white collar kids despised different races. Bad
news for someone neither 100% dumb or native.

Sure I wasn't a happy bunny with those people but I didn't let that bad
experience fill my soul full of fear, loathing, disgust, hatred etc toward
everybody else

I've read "If".
I kept my head (and mind).

A while back I heard one of the jerks from school committed suicide, another
got cancer (too much being cool smoking ciggies maybe?).

Artists make movies with that theme because those themes first are part of
the human experience of life, and as artists, its in their hearts and they
have a passion to express it.

Financial backers choose which movies to finance, and thus have the main say
in the matter.

Script writers may endeavour to produce the work they want, but backers
prefer films with out least one love scene, some starlet gets her tits out,
and the goodies kick bad guy ass and lots of shit gets blown up.

None of which is a big part of my life. :-&lt;

A pornographer makes pornography because he is full of lust and serves
those who are full of lust.

You've really got a thing against pornography.

Why? Too reminiscent of the whoring episode?
Do you feel guilty about masturbating?
Dude, 98% of people masturbate, and the other 2% just don't own up to it.

Now if Nietzsche had spent more time wanking over porn and less time with
whores, I daresay he'd have been a healthier happier guy collecting erotica.

Hitler, late 1930s. "Shall I don mein sexy black leather boots unt
trenchcoat, bugger Poland unt organise ein gigantisch snuff movie? Oder haff
ein nice sehr gross Vank? Ach, ich bin so heiss, I hav got to see all zose
big hard German helmets in motion!"

See? More porn, more wanking, less people in nasty moods.

"Modern" artists make ink splats for poseurs, conditioned to believe the
excuses celebrity critics and professors give them for its "popularity".

Hitler hated modern art as well.

On the contrary, there is a commie-conspiracy movie in production!

Just the one eh?
Out of all the output of Hollywood?

I'm anticipating the film release of *ATLAS SHRUGGED* =)

Fine, so long as it has a few perky tits and loads of baddies blown up.

Though not directly about the shallowness of popularity and poseurs,
"Blade Runner" has some interesting similarities with Fountainhead;
Individuality, reverence for life, heroic struggle, government that
doesn't value "unpopular" lives, rather than objectively, defined as
human.

"Blade Runner" raised many questions about how we should treat beings that
are a partial replica of humanity. This was how western people used to
regard Africans: talking beasts for slave labour and sex. The first group
becomes less human in the process, the replicants though flawed manages to
learn to be more human in his salvation of Dekker and perhaps himself in a
spiritual manner.

And let's not forget that Zora the snake dancer shows her tits, and there's
a fair bit of fighting and shooting in there too. Subtle, but there.

Heroic, anti-communist, individualist themes do sell. "Lord of the Rings"
sold damn well!

That was arguably more a metaphor for the struggle between pastoral life and
industrial life.
Represented by The Shire and Mordor. Tolkien saw this as his native
Birmingham was gradually swallowed up by industrial buildings.

Then again you automatically assume the baddies are commies.
I don't recall those Orcs debating seizing control of the means of
production from their bourgeois Hobbit capitalist overlords. Maybe it is in
the director's cut?

And although the yummy heroines didn't get their tits out, cos they need
kids to see it, there was a lot of carnage on an epic scale.

his inferiors. Your typical Arnold Schwarzenegger film. Interesting, even
profound, but celebrity films don't make the possibility of heroic courage
any closer to us than fantasy.

Maybe it is just for light hearted happy people to enjoy with a hot dog and
cola.

Yes; reverence for my soul, a creepy intensity, an innocent cynicism, a
desire to be a first-cause, a creator, like many engineers. A desire for
excellence, a disgust for the common and mediocre, a desire for a better
world (by different means). The will to continue in spite of crippling
suffering, even the will to power (for different values; not social
dominance). Yes, I'm proud to say I have much in common with Nietzsche,
I've learned from him.

Maybe you like being intense and creepy to enjoy making people
uncomfortable?
Maybe you like despising common people as a way to feel superior?

Doesn't that make you a bully?

And where do you find inspiration?

All around. I can marvel at the beauty of a tiny plankton, distant stars,
cunning electronic design, and as a heterosexual human male I am structured
to find the form of a healthy young human female most beautiful and elegant
of all.

The atheists that tell you you are a meaningless, dirty bag of saltwater?

They tell me nothing of the sort.

As Shakespeare noted, we are a quintessence of dust.
But also so much more than the sum of our parts.

I didn't call you an evil bastard, there you go again twisting my words.

You used equally unpleasant words then.

You obviously enjoy argument as much as I. And I doubt any of us here
advocate or practice initiating violence against other. I hope anyways.

You need to appreciate that verbal violence hurts the minds of others as
much as physical violence hurts the body. Hence there are often laws against
both. Verbal violence is often a precursor to physical violence. Bullies
often think they are "toughening up" their victims. If it don't kill them,
it makes them stronger. Wrong. It can lead to mental breakdowns and suicide.

Ah, you mean my aesthetic and political opinions and my expression of
them? Persecution based on "unpopular" personality and opinion is
deserved?

It isn't a case of total conformity or none.
A black and white case would be simple, but social situations are not like
that.

For example, if someone says "hey, I got given these great sausages by my
butcher buddy, more than I can eat. Anybody want some?" one can politely say
"no thanks I don't agree with eating meat". What one should not do is fly
off the handle and curse him for murdering pigs and reassembling them into a
vile parody of a penis shape.

I doubt your a bully. Perhaps your one of those wimpy appeasers that
sucked-up to the bullies and cheered and spit with the mob as they were
beating up those that didn't conform to social fashions.

No, you don't have that reason to despise me.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot y'all owned the Internet! How rude of me!

No, we share it and try to play nicely with others in the playpen.

If you want to play the intense and creepy kid who nobody likes because you
enjoy the feeling of persecuted martyrdom, then don't complain when the nice
kids start complaining.

Charlie Brown is a depressed loser

Gee, why does that view not surprise me?

Our world views often reflects our own selves.

I see Charlie Brown as an everyman, making it through his days dealing with
the various different personalities in his life. Despite feeling like the
goat often, his friends remain his friends. And Peppermint Patty secretly
loves him, hiding it under her tomboy shell. He's always ready to offer
people endless chances (e.g. not to snatch the football away). He has a
really cool dog. he is the hero.

I don't know any cartoons where the hero is the intense and creepy guy.
Those two kids who shot up Columbine were like that, I bet they thought they
were dead cool and clever. They are only heroes in their own mind.

I'm expressing an opinion, which you label intimidating aggressive abuse.

Maybe you don't see it as being intense, creepy, intimidating, aggressive
and abusive, but that is the way it is coming across at this end.

That's more left-leaning sophistry; label dissenting opinions as
hate-speech to censor dissent.

No, it's just people are offended by you.
I doubt you do it for that purpose, more like you simply don't appreciate
their feelings, or have any empathy for people you dismiss as inferior
minds.

You employ the same methods as left-leaning scoffers. You label those that
dissent as crazy, violent extremists spewing hate-speech and intimidate
them with threats of mob-intimidation.

No, I certainly don't have the will or means to mob intimidate anyone.

"gee, your reactions are way out of proportion, could you tone it down?"
should not be read as
"agree with the crowd or face our wrath"

Perhaps you're right, it appears this place is desolate of kindred
spirits.

There was some other guy who kept trying to discuss his revelation of god
all over the place.
He couldn't prove God existed but felt it in his butt. Rather overdoing it
on the Moving in a Mysterious way. He eventually admitted he sounded like
the rantings of a lunatic and was unable to demonstrate the difference.
Short of a butt transplant. I think a simpler explanation might be he
doesn't wipe properly.

If it helps you to let go you can think of us all as mindless braying cattle
hopelessly blind to the commie messages that are so obvious to you. We all
deserve to be falsely happy watching cartoons and simple action movies while
you alone see the true corruption of the world.

Think of it as cultivating the loner aspect of your angry loner persona.

I should leave, and you can inherit it. Mr. Kryten.

We'll keep an eye on naughty mister Winfield for you, and make sure he
doesn't throw the country into bloody revolution while you're off enjoying
yourself.

I'm sure you'll be back when you're bored.

See you later, commie baiter

 

[Winfield Hill]

Kryten wrote...

We'll keep an eye on naughty mister Winfield for you, and make sure
he doesn't throw the country into bloody revolution while you're off
enjoying yourself.

You'll do nothing of the sort. :&gt


--
Thanks,
- Win