OT: Civil War Narrowly Averted in Schiavo Case

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Smith
<kensmith@green.rahul.net> wrote (in <d33laq$kin$2@blue.rahul.net&gt
about 'OT: Civil War Narrowly Averted in Schiavo Case', on Thu, 7 Apr
2005:

Those who don't like taxes should also not like the government forcing
you to invest money in a limitted number for government things and then
calling that money "yours". If you have no control over what is done
with the money can you really say it is "yours"" They also claim that
"it can't be taken away from you".

When will the government repay War Loan?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that learning@learning.com wrote (in
<42555c73$2$woehfu$mr2ice@news.aros.net&gt about 'OT: Civil War Narrowly
Averted in Schiavo Case', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:

The solution is not privatizing, nor is it "shoring up" the existing
program. The cure is one that we won't ever see. Social Security must
go away, completely, and totally. Americans must be made to see that
they are going to have to be responsible for their own lives, and their
own retirement.

The only models of a society without SS that we have show intense
hardship, high infant and adult mortality and other stuff that people
these days (outside Africa) won't stand for.

You may rely on your guns to oppose an oppressive government, but if you
and those who think like you take SS away from the underprivileged, they
may well consider YOU to be the oppressors.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in
<5coa511isl9kia2tjijpe9er9prosm0kfk@4ax.com&gt about 'OT: Civil War
Narrowly Averted in Schiavo Case', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:

I think a _mandatory_ percentage of your income going into some kind of
retirement plan is wise, otherwise most people won't save anything
until they're suddenly _there_.

How this is managed, enforced and "guaranteed" remains to be seen.

For every $100 you pay in, you get a titanium disc. What you do with it
is up to you, but it can't be exported or converted to cash until you
retire. Then, your discs are notionally replaced by gold ones.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

In <bira51dh859rbgu52e77plihv43fg5g8qq@4ax.com>, on 04/07/05
at 11:01 AM, Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> said:

The "snag" you refer to is the inbred assumption by Americans that their
retirement is an entitlement, and that they don't have to work for
themselves.

MOST people in the US work for EMPLOYERS. Except for early in my life,
I've worked for myself, but that's unusual in this country.

A poorly turned phrase referring to the idea that if you want to retire
with any money, you have to work for it, as in invest it, pay your debts,
make sure you are ready, and see to it yourself, and not assume someone
else is going to do it for you. I phrased it badly, but I did not mean
people shouldn't or don't work for others.

Excuse me? If you pay in all your working life don't you expect
something in return?

No, I have paid all of my life, and will receive nothing. I believe that
is pretty obvious.

Too many people put in, and die before they get any benefit,

That's the statistics of insurance.

That does not justify forcibly taking 15% of one's income, and giving it
to someone else. You take my money, and hand it over to the guy next door
and call that fair? I don't really think you believe that at all.

Excuse me? Do the math. Almost exactly $ 2,000,000 of my income (I was
at max level most of my life) has been taxed for Social Security and
Medicare. Total contributions out of my pocket and from employer (keep
in mind the "employer" was me most of the time) was $ 210,876

All of that money went to my mom and dad. That is so kind of you. I know
they appreciate it, and I know that medicare is doing all they can to keep
them alive so the doctors and nursing home people can continue to benefit
from your wallet.

I will receive ~ $ 1876 / month when I retire. I will have to live until
age 75 TO BREAK EVEN... WHAT AN INVESTMENT.

How much would you have if an intelligent person like yourself had been
able to invest that 15% through the boom years? I bet you could do a whole
lot better. If you were earning $50K a year for 40 years, a small amount
into an IRA or 401K would pay you a lot more than $1800 a month. My
parents didn't pay anywhere near that much in their lifetimes, but they,
and their entire generation, have been sponging off all of us every month
for the past nearly 30 years. If that is fair, then I am confused for
sure, as to what the meaning of is, is.

Why is this tolerated? Because "that's the way we have always done it"
I really object vehemently to the federal government holding my hand, and
forcing me to live the way they demand, and taking my money, knowing full
well I will never get a penny of it back.

Oh? You get it back... just not with any decent return.

I will not get it back. I have paid an amount that closely matches what
you are claiming. I just don't believe for one minute that any of it will
be given back to me, and even if a small amount is squeezed out for me,
it will not be of much worth as the cost of living continues to rise
beyond anything ss is going to pay out. Worse is that someone else decided
when I can have my own money back, and it is held back in tiny doses,
just enough to keep me alive, but not enough to enjoy life to any great
extent.

Everyone should stand or fall of
their own free will.

Wait until it is you ;-)

I understand your thinking here, but it is soon to be me, and there is
nothing there for me. I also object violently to the idea that I should
feel threatened and forced to pay into a financial scheme that would land
the average citizen in jail for propogating it over the internet.

I also believe that people ought not give up their freedoms in hopes of
getting something back, a nickel at a time. Maybe I would have preferred a
better lifestyle when I was young enough to enjoy it? Maybe I don't care
what happens to me when I am 68 years old. I do not recall giving that
right to choose, to the goverment so they could decide my fate for me. I
object, vehemently. I do not desire my government to be my babysitter.

"knecks" ?

Ooops....

and
free ourselves to determine our own futures. Hell, throw in getting rid of
the IRS, and 75% of the government would disappear.

Wow! I didn't realize you were such a dreamer. Flat tax or a
consumption tax will never happen, because the IRS is our largest welfare
program. Put all those people out of work and we'd have a civil war on
our hands.

But Jim, I was merely pontificating on how nice it would be to get rid of
the government in our lives, and killing off those two socialist schemes
would take a huge chunk out of it. I am also sorry to report that
sometimes, to correct things that are wrong, it requires a bit of
suffering, and the possibility of ugly circumstances.

It will never happen, not because it is a bad idea, or because it might
cause a civil war, but because it would take away the power that the
politicians have over the citizens. It takes away their election year
hammer, and it gives rights and freedoms back to the people, and limits
the governments control and influence over us all. That right there is a
good enough reason to go to war to eliminate it, if it needs be that it
comes to us.

How many tag lines nowadays have Franklin's comments that is paraphrased
to be"those who will give up their liberties for their security deserve
neither?" Very wise words indeed, that apply to us today more than ever.

I am very grateful that my forefathers didn't take the negative, immediate
view of their actions, but instead were willing to take a hit short term,
and sacrifce for the long term benefit of millions yet to be born. Change
is painful, change is hardly ever elegant, but it is often necessary, and
fear of repercussions is how we ended up with such a miserable society in
the first place.

If getting rid of the IRS and social security causes a civil war, so be
it. Some things are worth all the sacrifice.

Let's face it. You, me, and everyone else moving in on into forced
retirement are stealing from our children, and their children. Its just
math, and nothing more. The money you put in, is gone to pay for our
parents. The money you will take out, is going to come from our children's
pockets.

Without all those freebies, even the Mexicans would think
twice before bothering to come here and screw up our country.

I'm for setting up shooting galleries along the border ;-)

Count me in!

I have been paying into that pyramid scheme forever, and it will give me
back nothing in return.

Wait until you get there ;-)

You think $1800 a month is enough to live a decent life on? I don't see it
that way.

I don't view it as in individual thing. I find it abhorrent, I find it
immoral, and I find that it will offer me nothing but a loaf of bread, a
half a tank of gas, and barely enough to pay the property taxes on the
property that I now own, and will be trapped on for the rest of my life. I
also feel tremendous guilt when I have to explain to my children why that
money is taken from them, and I cannot in good conscience tell them the
lie that we are being told, that it will be there when they need it,
because it will not.

The noose that such programs tie around the necks (got it that time!) of
the citizens is just not worth it, and if it takes a civil war to get our
freedoms back, I am at the front of the line.

I've paid a SINFUL amount into income taxes and SS (probably more
annually in taxes than you gross). Now I'm taking at least a modicum
back.

You have no idea what my lifetime income is, or has been. That has nothing
to do with any of this. There are people who make more than you, and
people who make less than me. They are all entitled to do as they please
with the money they work so hard to earn, regardless of how rich you think
you are.

Until February I was paying $560/month for health insurance with a $5K
deductible, then 80/20... in other words, I was uninsured except for
deadly occurrences.

Not sure why that is relevant. Most people pay that much for their
coverage, and don't use it anyway. <shrug> It is ridiculous to have to pay
that much tho, I agree.

Now, Medicare, with Part B and supplemental type F, costs me ~$223/month,
and I actually can get medical treatment... and no skimping... got a CT
scan of my sinuses the other day, at NO cost ;-)

You are a very wise man. Therefore you cannot say "at no cost" as you know
that is not true. It was not done for nothing. The secret is, "no
immediate cost" to you, right now. Someone paid for it, it just wasn't
you. Even the more intelligent among us can be decieved.

My mom fell and broke her hip. When she awoke from the surgery, they had
decided that as long as they were at it, they would replace both of the
hips with nice new plastic ones, at no cost. C'mon now, we are thinking
men, and we know there is no such thing as a free lunch (or hip, or nasal
scan)

JB

 

In <7t1KzZbOzXVCFwOa@jmwa.demon.co.uk>, on 04/07/05

The only models of a society without SS that we have show intense
hardship, high infant and adult mortality and other stuff that people
these days (outside Africa) won't stand for.

I disagree, but that ought not surpirse anyone A hundred years ago,
there were no social security plans, there was no mandatory retirement,
there was no attitude of "be born, and work every day so you can sit on
your ass once you get to 65". Somehow, we forged a society like the one we
have today without all those things, and yet now, we are to believe that
we cannot exist without it. I just cannot accept that premise.

You may rely on your guns to oppose an oppressive government, but if you
and those who think like you take SS away from the underprivileged, they
may well consider YOU to be the oppressors.

At least our guns help keep our crime rates down, and the criminals out of
our homes, if we choose to accept that freedom and responsibility. At
least we can move about freely, armed if we feel the need, and when
someone tries to steal from us, we can defend ourselves without the
government turning around and arresting us for protecting our property.
You and your nation are in no position to make light of guns in the US. We
have seen what has happened to your society when you all bent way over and
gave up your right to defend yourself.

Sometimes, it is necessary to take drastic action, rather than excuse the
abuse by fearing what may occur if we correct it.

The history of man shows that things only change, when people are willing
to suffer for the cause, and willing to give up some of their comforts and
happiness for the betterment of all the people. As long as we hide in the
corner and whine about how it might upset someone if we try to correct
this wrong, nothing will ever be accomplished towards creating a better
society.

One solid reason the Iraqis will never be free is that they don't have the
balls to stand up and grab it when it is offered to them on a silver
platter. "oh, we don't want to defend ourselves, we don't want to risk
anything. We just want it all, for nothing" Sound terribly French to me.

JB

 

[Mark Cook]

"Bob Monsen" <rcsurname@comast.net> wrote in message
newsan.2005.04.06.21.40.38.788798@comast.net...

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:44:04 -0400, keith wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 13:30:33 -0700, Robert Monsen wrote:

John Woodgate wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Clarence_A <no@No.com> wrote (in
CcA4e.9602$FN4.804@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com&gt about 'OT: Civil War
Narrowly Averted in Schiavo Case', on Tue, 5 Apr 2005:

America is not and never has been a "Democracy."


What about 'government of/for/by the People'? 'By the People' is
surely 'democracy'?

It's formally defined as a representative democracy. The people don't
vote, they vote for the people who vote. This leads to wierd anomalies,
such as George W Bush, who lost the 'popular' vote in 2000, but won the
election due to quirks in the law, and a few friends in high places.

Horse-shit! No "quirks in the law", nor "a few friends in high places".
The constitution was (finally) followed.



I don't want to get into a brawl here, but analysis after the fact of the
2000 election pointed out that Gore would have won Florida had the US
supreme court not overruled the Florida supreme court.

That is what the media would like for you to think, but if you check out the
NORC, you will find that they did not check all of the disputed ballots.
There were as many as 179,855 disputed ballots, the NORC checked 175,010 of
those ballots. A partial recount by the media does not prove Gore would have
won.

"Third, the project does not identify "winners." Its goal is to assess he
reliability of the voting systems themselves, using the highest standards of
scientific accuracy and reliability."
http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/f­l/promiss.asp

The NORC claims that there where approx 180,000 disputed ballots.

http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/f­l/press.asp

The Orlando Sentinel backs up this claim, they found that there were as many
as 179,855 disputed ballots

http://www.co.leon.fl.us/elect­/blankspoilFL.pdf

The US supremecourt stepped in, against precedent, to interfere with state
politics,

"State politics" does not trump the US Constitution. "State politics"
allowed for Jim Crowe type laws, but that does not mean that the courts do
not have jurisdiction.

Article II of the US Constitution give the state legislatures that exclusive
right to enact election code. That means that the courts cannot craft a
remedy that CHANGES these laws. Florida Code requires a uniformed counting
standard, but the FSC's order of 12/8/2000 endorses an uneven counting
standard. This is not only a violation of the equal protection clause, but
also a violation of 3 U.S.C. section 5. The Supreme Court stopped the FSC
from usurping the powers left to the state legislature.

simply because a majority of them wanted Bush to win.

That is not how the system works. The final arbiter in a Presidential
Election is Congress, not the courts. Bush was already the certified winner
of the state of Florida BEFORE the US Supreme Court got involved. All
post-certification recounts, ect are non-binding on Congress.

The only way Gore wins after 11/26/2000 is if he can convince (a challenge
under 3 U.S.C. section 15) the Republican controlled US House that he was
the real winner. Until the US House gives up Bush and accepts Gore, no
amount of recounts, ect are going to change the outcome of this election.

...but if you want to continue to slog on in your hate and stupor,
please don't let me stop you. You folks need someone to hate.

Are you offering yourself as a candidate? I don't think you have the
credentials. Here is the job description:

=========

Job Opening:

The liberal elite are again searching for a candidate for the position of
"person to hate".

Job requirements:

The perfect candidate is an evil scion of an evil family, who is totally
committed to raping the middle class for the benefit of himself and the
rest of the richest 1%.

You must have intimate connections with the Christian Right, and be
willing to use them to your own advantage. You must be willing to
undermine the separation of church and state.

You will be required to start vanity wars in the middle east with the
hidden agenda of pumping up Texan oil prices for your friends.

You will also be required to attempt to destroy social security, medicare,
and other cherished programs of the "New Deal" and "Great Society".

Finally, you will be required to destroy the economic well-being of the
united states by building up the national debt to a point where other
nations lose confidence in treasury bonds.

Benefits:

A large house (white) will be provided for the use of you and your family.
All transportation, security, food, and medical care will be supplied.

Salary:

While our salary package is not as attractive as many other positions in
the private sector, the connections and influence that can be gained may
be used to your financial advantage after your tenure in too many ways to
count. Former 'person to hate's have gone on to peddle their influence to
obtain lucrative careers in both the private and the public sector.

=======

This job is already filled at present. You may, however, reapply in 3
years.

-------
Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:20:44 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

[snip]

No, I have paid all of my life, and will receive nothing. I believe that
is pretty obvious.

[snip]

You keep saying that, and I don't understand.

WHY "...will receive nothing" ??

You DO understand that there is no longer any earned income offset?

Or are you illegally in this country ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

In <0k4b51t3t9gfocqpla7fcug83tpdpd6kar@4ax.com>, on 04/07/05
at 01:07 PM, Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> said:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:20:44 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

[snip]

No, I have paid all of my life, and will receive nothing. I believe that
is pretty obvious.

[snip]

You keep saying that, and I don't understand.

WHY "...will receive nothing" ??

You DO understand that there is no longer any earned income offset?

Or are you illegally in this country ?

...Jim Thompson

 

[Rich The Newsgropup Wacko]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:01:29 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:42:19 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

In <5coa511isl9kia2tjijpe9er9prosm0kfk@4ax.com>, on 04/07/05
at 09:42 AM, Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> said:

One big snag in your reasoning seems to be an assumption that company
pensions will actually have value.

The "snag" you refer to is the inbred assumption by Americans that their
retirement is an entitlement, and that they don't have to work for
themselves.

MOST people in the US work for EMPLOYERS. Except for early in my life,
I've worked for myself, but that's unusual in this country.

Yes, especially unusual when one considers that most of us work for our
customers.
--
Cheers!
Rich
---
#!/usr/bin/bash
echo `fortune all`
Paranoia is simply an optimistic outlook on life.

 

[Rich The Newsgropup Wacko]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:27:21 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Smith <kensmith@green.rahul.net
wrote (in <d33laq$kin$2@blue.rahul.net&gt about 'OT: Civil War Narrowly
Averted in Schiavo Case', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:
Those who don't like taxes should also not like the government forcing
you to invest money in a limitted number for government things and then
calling that money "yours". If you have no control over what is done
with the money can you really say it is "yours"" They also claim that
"it can't be taken away from you".

When will the government repay War Loan?

When Science reaches -274C.
--
Thanks,
Rich
---
#!/usr/bin/bash
echo `fortune all`
Why does a hearse horse snicker, hauling a lawyer away? -- Carl Sandburg

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:51:38 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

learning@learning.com hit SEND before typing ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

In <0k4b51t3t9gfocqpla7fcug83tpdpd6kar@4ax.com>, on 04/07/05
at 01:07 PM, Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> said:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:20:44 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

[snip]

No, I have paid all of my life, and will receive nothing. I believe that
is pretty obvious.

[snip]

You keep saying that, and I don't understand.

WHY "...will receive nothing" ??

I deleted the long answer, and will try the shorter method After
paying in all my life, the politicians kindly giving me back an IV style
drip, drip, drip in tiny amounts of cash which will barely sustain my
life, and not likely allow me to even keep my home, is nothing.

Putting the money where I wanted to put it, investing it, or even paying
off my home ahead of schedule is something useful, and worth working for.
Being in control of my destiny is my idea of living. Tying my hands,
stealing my income, and then giving it back, in little tiny increments,
long after I could have put it to good use, is nothing.

That ain't living. That's nothing.

Being forced out of the workplace, and into "sit on your ass and barely
live" retirement was not ever a goal of mine. Some people work all their
lives so they can enjoy their "golden years" I wanted to enjoy ALL of my
life, not just the last ten, which I may not even live to see anyway.

I would rather have had the tens of thousand of dollars I paid in just
during the booming 90s, to invest, and to improve my life for those ten
years when I was happy healthy, young, trying to be a good parent, and
funding all kinds of activities in my families life. Instead, it was taken
from me, and given to someone else, and maybe later, if I live long
enough. I can have it back, but not with those incredible interest rates
that could be had during the dot com boom days. If I die tomorrow, its not
me they stole from, but my children who lost out on a lot of things
because 15% of my income was stolen from me.

When considering my position and attitude towards SS, it is important to
add in the costs of of the program to all of our society, for all that it
impacts, not just the 15% of the money I earned. It stole from the people,
and gave power to a domineering government who beats us over the head with
it every time they want to get us back in line. SS is nearly a weapon of
mass destruction against the citizens. If it was not a tool of power and
fear mongering for politicians, I could probably get along with the basic
premise, but not only do they steal our money, when we could be making the
best use of it, but then they turn around and abuse us with it, and that
turn us from free people, into wards of the state. It is the entire
system/process that turns my stomach, and makes me long for a day when men
had character, and were willing to stand up and fight for what is right,
even if it means losing that cell phone, the boat or the SUV, and the HDTV
connection. Stealing from the next generation is a gutless thing to do.

That is who I am and the older I get, the more convinced I am, that I am
right, and also alone in that mindset. <shrug>

That wasn't so short after all.... Sorry......

JB

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:52:12 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

In <0k4b51t3t9gfocqpla7fcug83tpdpd6kar@4ax.com>, on 04/07/05
at 01:07 PM, Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> said:

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:20:44 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

[snip]

No, I have paid all of my life, and will receive nothing. I believe that
is pretty obvious.

[snip]

You keep saying that, and I don't understand.

WHY "...will receive nothing" ??

I deleted the long answer, and will try the shorter method After
paying in all my life, the politicians kindly giving me back an IV style
drip, drip, drip in tiny amounts of cash which will barely sustain my
life, and not likely allow me to even keep my home, is nothing.

Putting the money where I wanted to put it, investing it, or even paying
off my home ahead of schedule is something useful, and worth working for.
Being in control of my destiny is my idea of living. Tying my hands,
stealing my income, and then giving it back, in little tiny increments,
long after I could have put it to good use, is nothing.

That ain't living. That's nothing.

Being forced out of the workplace, and into "sit on your ass and barely
live" retirement was not ever a goal of mine. Some people work all their
lives so they can enjoy their "golden years" I wanted to enjoy ALL of my
life, not just the last ten, which I may not even live to see anyway.

I would rather have had the tens of thousand of dollars I paid in just
during the booming 90s, to invest, and to improve my life for those ten
years when I was happy healthy, young, trying to be a good parent, and
funding all kinds of activities in my families life. Instead, it was taken
from me, and given to someone else, and maybe later, if I live long
enough. I can have it back, but not with those incredible interest rates
that could be had during the dot com boom days. If I die tomorrow, its not
me they stole from, but my children who lost out on a lot of things
because 15% of my income was stolen from me.

When considering my position and attitude towards SS, it is important to
add in the costs of of the program to all of our society, for all that it
impacts, not just the 15% of the money I earned. It stole from the people,
and gave power to a domineering government who beats us over the head with
it every time they want to get us back in line. SS is nearly a weapon of
mass destruction against the citizens. If it was not a tool of power and
fear mongering for politicians, I could probably get along with the basic
premise, but not only do they steal our money, when we could be making the
best use of it, but then they turn around and abuse us with it, and that
turn us from free people, into wards of the state. It is the entire
system/process that turns my stomach, and makes me long for a day when men
had character, and were willing to stand up and fight for what is right,
even if it means losing that cell phone, the boat or the SUV, and the HDTV
connection. Stealing from the next generation is a gutless thing to do.

That is who I am and the older I get, the more convinced I am, that I am
right, and also alone in that mindset. <shrug

That wasn't so short after all.... Sorry......

JB

So you WILL be receiving something, just not what you want ?

I guess I can put you on the list as supporting Bush's privatization
plan ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Ken Smith]

In article <pan.2005.04.07.20.22.33.855734@example.com>,
Rich The Newsgropup Wacko <wacko@example.com> wrote:
[...]

When will the government repay War Loan?

When Science reaches -274C.

Be careful, I think thats already been done.


I think is was like this: You cool something in a very strong magnetic
field and then reduce the field. The electrons then have a minus absolute
temperature in that they briefly have less energy than they would at
absolute zero.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

 

[Ken Smith]

In article <dl7b515avfp3bnm23sbjg1fqpgb2iqc87s@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]

I guess I can put you on the list as supporting Bush's privatization
plan ?

Just last week W. said that he had not laid out a plan, on purpose.
--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge

 

So you WILL be receiving something, just not what you want ?

If I give you $100, and some time later, years from now, you give me $75,
are you really giving me anything? I put that in the same category as
people who think a tax refund is the government giving them some money
once a year....

I guess I can put you on the list as supporting Bush's privatization plan
?

If I could make the choice, social security, and the power that it gives
goverment over the people, would go away. Not instantly to screw people,
and hang them out to dry, but a reasonable plan would have to happen to
make it, and all the strings that come with it, disappear forever.

I may appear insane, :- ) but I am not so naive as to think that can ever
happen, so yes, I would get on board with any proposition that would give
the people more responsibility more say, and more accountability for
themselves, even if it ends up a watered down, joke of a plan, which is
what I see actually happening.

I just absolutely reject the premise that the federal government even has
the authority to run SS in the first place. Not only is it
unconsitutional, but they have shown themselves to be failures at nearly
everything else, so why do we believe they are qualified to handle "our
golden years?"

One of my favorites? The death benefit. I forget what it is right off the
top of my head, but on TV, they always remind us that it is like $250 or
something. I am willing to bet my death benefit, that it costs the
government MORE than that $250 just to do the paperwork, and get the money
to the beneficiaries. Why we sit around and take that kind of waste and
abuse just scares me to death.

JB

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:42:19 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

Being out of work for the last little while, I sure wish I could
have some of that money that they stole from me, right now, when I need it
most.

---
So, go on the dole and let the rest of us support you. I mean, how
bad can it be? You've obviously still got a connection to Usenet
which you're using to badmouth the system, so it's not like you're out
of the system and able to thrive on your own without it.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

In <ksdb51tn3tua8d3qn9tqpdpfmqi5elph21@4ax.com>, on 04/07/05
at 05:53 PM, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> said:

So, go on the dole and let the rest of us support you.

I don't do welfare, and I don't take that which I have not earned.

You've obviously still got a connection to Usenet which
you're using to badmouth the system, so it's not like you're out of the
system and able to thrive on your own without it.

I don't think that paragraph makes any sense. Is there a rule here I
missed that says no one can bad mouth "the system?"

Who said I was not thriving?

Why do you feel you are in charge enough to decide who can be here and
what they can say?

It would appear that you don't like the fact that I am voicing an opinion
that does not line up with yours. Who here has the problem then?

I think the system sucks. So what does that have to do with a job, or an
internet connection, or usenet?

Why does it bother you when someone speaks out against an abusive, out of
control system? What is the reason for your words? Is there something you
want to say? Its usenet, just say it.

Everything is fine? Everyone has the job of their dreams, we are all in
control of our own destiny. Its a beautiful world, and our posterity has
nothing to look forward to besides cell phones, and satelite MTV. "I have
all I need, I am happy, so everyone else ought to shut up and be happy
too?" Is that what you think?

No one forces you to read what I post. Its fine if you disagree, but why
be so abusive and personal about it?

If Congress had not stolen so many thousands hard earned dollars in just
the 90's alone, I would be pretty well off right now. If you are well off,
I think that is fine, but your attitude appears to be that everyone has to
be happy about governmental control of our lives, the way that you seem
to be.

Sorry John. Won't happen. "Injustice will never be eliminated until those
who are not affected by it, are as outraged as those who are."

Go for it. I don't care what you think about my opinions. <shrug>

JB

 

[John Fields]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:20:44 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

I will not get it back. I have paid an amount that closely matches what
you are claiming. I just don't believe for one minute that any of it will
be given back to me, and even if a small amount is squeezed out for me,
it will not be of much worth as the cost of living continues to rise
beyond anything ss is going to pay out. Worse is that someone else decided
when I can have my own money back, and it is held back in tiny doses,
just enough to keep me alive, but not enough to enjoy life to any great
extent.

---
You are truly an example of a fucking idiot with absolutely no
foresight.

How about this: If you knew that after your productive years were
over and you could no longer fend for yourself, and if you hadn't made
provisions for that through prudent investments outside of the
government's fate for you, then you are the very drain on the system
you're complaining about. That is, if you knew that, say, 15% of your
income was being plowed back into a system you didn't believe in, and
you wanted to make sure that you'd be taken care of in your old age,
why didn't you make sure that your discretionary income was being
invested in instruments which would yield a level of income for you
which would leave you comfortable in your declining years without
having to depend on SS? It seems to me that would be infinitely
better than bitching about what you'll never get because you let
someone else fend for you, in that that money would go to someone who
really needed it.

Also, why are you complaining about being unemployed? If it's that
important to you then you should be spending all of your waking hours
seeking employment instead of bitching about how fucked up everything
is.

Find a job or make a job, ya fucking pussy, or get the fuck out.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

You are truly an example of a fucking idiot with absolutely no foresight.

And you are an example of a man with absolutely no class whatsoever. Your
words don't bother me, but they do reflect badly on you.

If you can show me where I was complaining about being unemployed, I will
pack up and go away so your blood pressure can get back to normal, but in
your zeal to show me how intelligent you are by using the clever word
'fuck' over and over again, you have overlooked the fact that I never
complained about being unemployed.

True, I mentioned that I was, at the moment, and lamented that if I had
the money your friend's in Congress took from me, things would go easier,
but even a wise man like yourself would be hard pressed to show how that
could be construed as complaining about being unemployed.

Nah, I never complained, you are just looking for someone to say "fuck"
at, over and over. Go ahead. I am okay with that if it helps you to feel
better, or if it helps make you feel like a real man.

Its rather funny to see how some people get so personally involved in
these discussions that they erupt, and we can picture them foaming at the
mouth, jumping around in their room, angry at the world, banging on the
keyboard and just dying to say something that they think will incite
someone else. Can't help you there dude. You just have to learn some self
control eventually. I used to respond in kind, but I quickly realized how
childish that behavior was, so you are out there alone on this one.

Take a pill, take three, have a shot and a beer, read what was written
again, and then realize that you are over the top and embarassing yourself
quite badly on this one. There was no complaining about being unemployed.
There are no WMDs here, your intelligence was all wrong, or perhaps, its
non-existent.....

If it's that
important to you then you should be spending all of your waking hours
seeking employment instead of bitching about how fucked up everything is.

It seems that it is more important to you, than it is to me. If it bothers
you that much, try using a filter. I hate to think that you are so worked
up over an issue that only exists in your mind, which, btw, must make it
one very lonely issue.

Find a job or make a job, ya fucking pussy, or get the fuck out.

Please don't worry about me John. I will be okay. I can get along just
fine. I appreciate your concern tho, and think it is really nice to know
that just the thought of me being out of work causes you such
consternation. What a great man you are.

Now, get out the manual, and learn how to use that filter so you don't
have to mis-read anymore of my posts, and get all confused, worked up, and
get all worked up again. How embarassing it must be for you to not be able
to control yourself, even when its just a keyboard and a monitor to deal
with. Maybe I can get a job working with you, and then you can teach me
about class, and being a decent human being.

JB