LTSpice Automation

Jim Thompson · Feb 20, 2010

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:58:35 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:01:12 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:51:09 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7u8260Fve5U1@mid.individual.net...
Dishes were done by hand, same for the laundry.

They didn't have laundromats over there!? My mother didn't have a washer &
dryer until I was about 6, so I do have many early memories of accompanying
her off to the laundromat... my brother and I would spend out time looking for
loose change people had dropped, and (at least as a kid) it was truly amazing
just how much there was to find.

My mother didn't have a dryer until after I moved out. She decided
that sixty was too old to be hanging clothes to dry.

Oh, and it was next door to a donut shop...

I can't even imagine having to do laundry by hand these days! Especially
when, after getting married, the amount of laundry done per week has increased
by, um, about 5x...

By hand? You mean by beating it on a rock?

I'll bet he was civilized and had a metal tub and a washboard. They doubled as
musical instruments on winter Saturday afternoons.

As a kid I thought it was hilarious to crank my Grandmother Thompson's
washing machine until I got too close to the wringer. Then I
discovered the button on top to whack and release myself :-(

I also enjoyed pumping spinning wheels and sewing machines, and the
organ at my Grandparents Godwin... I was easily entertained ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice

krw · Feb 20, 2010

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:55:27 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:58:35 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:01:12 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:51:09 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7u8260Fve5U1@mid.individual.net...
Dishes were done by hand, same for the laundry.

They didn't have laundromats over there!? My mother didn't have a washer &
dryer until I was about 6, so I do have many early memories of accompanying
her off to the laundromat... my brother and I would spend out time looking for
loose change people had dropped, and (at least as a kid) it was truly amazing
just how much there was to find.

My mother didn't have a dryer until after I moved out. She decided
that sixty was too old to be hanging clothes to dry.

Oh, and it was next door to a donut shop...

I can't even imagine having to do laundry by hand these days! Especially
when, after getting married, the amount of laundry done per week has increased
by, um, about 5x...

By hand? You mean by beating it on a rock?

I'll bet he was civilized and had a metal tub and a washboard. They doubled as
musical instruments on winter Saturday afternoons.

Makes sense. Joerg likes Bluegrass, too.

Washboards were used by 'Jug Bands'.

Yes, and that's Bluegrass. One of the music teachers I had in high
school was in a great bluegrass band (The Medicare # - #=the number
that showed up that night). He played the clarinet and garden hose.
;-)

Joerg · Feb 20, 2010

krw wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:37:46 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw wrote:

[...]

I worked for (their first employee, actually) HAL Electronics making
electronic keyers and keyer kits when I was in high school.

HAL was totally unaffordable for me and many others. I always marveled
at their stuff but then we usually built it ourselves. I remember one
guy threading enameled wired through dozens of toroids to make a poor
man's matrix keyboard, cussing and all. But it worked.

It was amazing stuff for its time. I built myself one of the iambic
keyers. I have no idea what happened to it.

Occasionally one shows up for sale:

http://www.eham.net/classifieds/detail/268956

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Joerg · Feb 20, 2010

JosephKK wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:15:54 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

krw wrote:

[...]

When I first started with IBM, we used communicating Selectrics and
2741s (a bullet-proofed Selectric sort of thing) for this. Overnight
runs used a different simulator and chain printers. The printing was
the same as above, though, and printouts were often a foot thick.

Then you probably remember their first PC word processor, EasyWriter.
That's what I started out with. Later I learned that the programmer
wrote it while doing time in the slammer, IIRC for blue-boxing.

I thought that Electric Pencil was first only to discover that it predates
the IBM PC. I think that Word Star was the first PC mass market text editor
with printout formatting. Mostly lifted from vi and Tex from unix land.

When our family started using EasyWriter I think there was no Word Star.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Charlie E. · Feb 20, 2010

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:17:07 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

JosephKK wrote:
On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:15:54 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

krw wrote:

[...]

When I first started with IBM, we used communicating Selectrics and
2741s (a bullet-proofed Selectric sort of thing) for this. Overnight
runs used a different simulator and chain printers. The printing was
the same as above, though, and printouts were often a foot thick.

Then you probably remember their first PC word processor, EasyWriter.
That's what I started out with. Later I learned that the programmer
wrote it while doing time in the slammer, IIRC for blue-boxing.

I thought that Electric Pencil was first only to discover that it predates
the IBM PC. I think that Word Star was the first PC mass market text editor
with printout formatting. Mostly lifted from vi and Tex from unix land.

When our family started using EasyWriter I think there was no Word Star.

[...]
When my wife went back to college in the '80s we had a word processor

on our C64 that she used with an Star dot matrix to do her school
work. it was definitely NOT WYSIWYG, but it was a lot better than
typing!

Charlie

Charlie E. · Feb 20, 2010

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:39:51 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:rtkrn51hvfcfm17cjrvhp0uf9o81koupr0@4ax.com...
Didn't everyone have PCs by then?

In 1994, when I received my BSEE, of the engineering students I knew, I doubt
that even half had their own PCs. That was still the era of very large
computer labs -- I took some computer science class to learn C, Pascal, and
FORTRAN (probably in 1992), and while I had a good enough job that I could
afford to buy copies of Turbo C and Turbo Pascal for DOS, I knew FORTRAN was a
pretty dead language already and used the college's computer lab. FORTRAN was
taught on Macs and the main lab was a huge, poorly-ventilated room in the
basement of a ugly concrete building with literally hundreds of Macs and
students side-by-side. It wasn't exactly a nice atmosphere!

The next semester I took "assembly langauge on a VAX" -- a room of a couple
dozen terminals, much more room per student -- and "data structures and
algorithms" -- a room of perhaps 50 HP PA-RISC workstations running HPUX --,
and those were actually pretty nice environments.

I had an Amiga 3000 at the time... and while Berkeley SPICE was available, the
guys with PCs were already running the free version of PSpice which had much
better graphing abilities.

Laptops were quite new and insanely expensive (and machines mere mortals could
afford had the crappy highly-multiplexed monochrome LCDs). How far we've
come -- today I'd wager >99% of engineering students have PCs, almost all of
those are laptops (all active-matrix LCDs now), and nearly all campuses have
ubiquitous WFi.

---Joel
When I went back for may Masters in 1988, I first bought me a PC

clone (8088 with a 30Meg HD!) to do homework on. I happened to have a
'friend' or two, so I had a complete suite of tools, including
wordperfect, spreadsheets, autocad!, plus anything else I thought I
needed. I also got the free version of PSpice when I needed it.

I think just about all of my classmates in the grad program had their
own PCs...

Charlie

Charlie E. · Feb 20, 2010

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:07:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:42:27 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thinking back, at the time a desktop PC still cost the equivalent of perhaps
30 college textbooks. Today, a reasonable laptop is perhaps all of 5...!

My first 386 with a 387 co-processor cost me around $4K, and it was a
clone (~1987)

...Jim Thompson
I have found that I almost always have a budget of $1K when I get a

new computer. My first C64, with disk drive and printer, was about
that, although I got about $300 in rebates. My first PC, the 8088,
was $1050. My next 486 machine was probably around $900, and my next
two compaqs were around a grand. Even this laptop was only $1100...

Charlie

Charlie E. · Feb 21, 2010

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the
amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called
"double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil
it until it will be a uniform kasha.

Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How
long ago was that?

Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades?

No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done?

When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required
to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various
plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker."
These days many schools have switched some or all of their own
cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza
Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition
and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place,
food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no
remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready
walking distance of campus. )

But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely
frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much
cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly
gourmet quality.

IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets
exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types.

When I got my BS back in the 70s, the college required you to at least
get a 7 meal plan, even if you lived off campus or had a kitchen on
campus. It just went in the cost of college. My cheap meal of choice
was beans and franks. Since I could cook, this was pretty good... ;-)

Charlie

Joerg · Feb 21, 2010

Charlie E. wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the
amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called
"double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil
it until it will be a uniform kasha.
Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How
long ago was that?

Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades?
No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done?

When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required
to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various
plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker."
These days many schools have switched some or all of their own
cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza
Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition
and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place,
food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no
remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready
walking distance of campus. )

But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely
frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much
cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly
gourmet quality.

IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets
exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types.

When I got my BS back in the 70s, the college required you to at least
get a 7 meal plan, even if you lived off campus or had a kitchen on
campus. It just went in the cost of college. My cheap meal of choice
was beans and franks. Since I could cook, this was pretty good... ;-)

I went to the Tuesday farmers market every week, got milk and eggs fresh
from a local farmer (yep, non-pasteurized milk fresh from the cows),
made my own yoghurt, brewed beer and cooked up a storm almost every
night. About the only thing I just warmed up was Bami Goreng because the
local butcher made a really good one.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

JosephKK · Feb 21, 2010

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:42:09 -0800, Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:07:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:42:27 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thinking back, at the time a desktop PC still cost the equivalent of perhaps
30 college textbooks. Today, a reasonable laptop is perhaps all of 5...!

My first 386 with a 387 co-processor cost me around $4K, and it was a
clone (~1987)

...Jim Thompson
I have found that I almost always have a budget of $1K when I get a
new computer. My first C64, with disk drive and printer, was about
that, although I got about $300 in rebates. My first PC, the 8088,
was $1050. My next 486 machine was probably around $900, and my next
two compaqs were around a grand. Even this laptop was only $1100...

Charlie

I am generally from $1000 to $1500 with a few excursions to $2000. I
am trying to hit the middle of the knee in the price curve.

Michael A. Terrell · Feb 21, 2010

"Charlie E." wrote:

When my wife went back to college in the '80s we had a word processor
on our C64 that she used with an Star dot matrix to do her school
work. it was definitely NOT WYSIWYG, but it was a lot better than
typing!

I liked Speedscript for the C64, SX64 & C128. Not fancy, but easy to
use. On the 128 you saved the program as the first file on a floppy,
then used the 'Shift' & 'Run' keys to load & run the first program on a
disk.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Michael A. Terrell · Feb 21, 2010

"Charlie E." wrote:

I have found that I almost always have a budget of $1K when I get a
new computer. My first C64, with disk drive and printer, was about
that, although I got about $300 in rebates. My first PC, the 8088,
was $1050. My next 486 machine was probably around $900, and my next
two compaqs were around a grand. Even this laptop was only $1100...

Most of mine were in the $400 range, if I didn't build them myself.
The last new computer I bought was an Emachines 733 MHz E Tower with
Windows ME. Since then, it has been used computers built from used
parts.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Michael A. Terrell · Feb 21, 2010

krw wrote:

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:55:27 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

krw wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:58:35 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:01:12 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:51:09 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Joerg" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7u8260Fve5U1@mid.individual.net...
Dishes were done by hand, same for the laundry.

They didn't have laundromats over there!? My mother didn't have a washer &
dryer until I was about 6, so I do have many early memories of accompanying
her off to the laundromat... my brother and I would spend out time looking for
loose change people had dropped, and (at least as a kid) it was truly amazing
just how much there was to find.

My mother didn't have a dryer until after I moved out. She decided
that sixty was too old to be hanging clothes to dry.

Oh, and it was next door to a donut shop...

I can't even imagine having to do laundry by hand these days! Especially
when, after getting married, the amount of laundry done per week has increased
by, um, about 5x...

By hand? You mean by beating it on a rock?

I'll bet he was civilized and had a metal tub and a washboard. They doubled as
musical instruments on winter Saturday afternoons.

Makes sense. Joerg likes Bluegrass, too.

Washboards were used by 'Jug Bands'.

Yes, and that's Bluegrass. One of the music teachers I had in high
school was in a great bluegrass band (The Medicare # - #=the number
that showed up that night). He played the clarinet and garden hose.
;-)

You should listen to 'Bluegrass Underground' on WSM. It's recorded
live in a cave that is 333 feet below ground, near Nashville. It airs
Saturdays before the Opry.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

JosephKK · Feb 21, 2010

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:11:15 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:52:06 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:40:24 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the
amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called
"double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil
it until it will be a uniform kasha.
Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How
long ago was that?

Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades?
No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done?

When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required
to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various
plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker."
These days many schools have switched some or all of their own
cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza
Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition
and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place,
food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no
remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready
walking distance of campus. )

But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely
frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much
cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly
gourmet quality.

Certainly can. A few weeks ago, one of the news reports here was that
Auburn was going to force every student to buy a meal plan, whether
they wanted it or not. Even those living off-campus.

IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets
exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types.

Apparently they're going to make that impossible, too. UVM required
Freshmen to live on-campus, even if they couldn't afford dorms and
could live at home. Alabama universities (Both 'bama and Auburn) are
also going that way, except not just for Freshmen.

Thirty-five years ago UIUC required Freshmen to live on campus, unless
they could live at home.

Very sad. And nobody does anything against that? I find it almost
discriminatory. I am not a fan of legal action but if those universities
receive even one dime in public funding I hope someone manages to get a
class together and challenge them.

Auburn and UofAlabama *are* the Alabama state universities (as are UVM
in Vermont and UIUC in Illinois). How is it discriminatory if
everyone is treated the same? Indeed that may be one of the reasons
(excuses) behind the stupidity. It's only "fair" if everyone suffers
together.

Well if they want to charge me like i live on campus, they better think well
about properly providing a cot and a roof to go with the three hots. Not
all students can so easily beat the cost of the meal plan, but those that
can, and need to, to stay in school are clearly being discriminated against.

The point is that you *would* live on campus. Of course you can beat
their prices, but that's not in their interest. The middle class are
far from being a protected class. Discrimination is perfectly legal.

I didn't back then and i couldn't now (way to much stuff plus a house). Of
course i always had to pay my own tuition/fees and buy my own books. Didn't
let that stop me either. But mandatory fees for students for services that
they cannot make reasonable use of is evil. There are such things as commuter
campuses, 70k students enrolled, 18k of them full time, more crowding in the
night classes.

krw · Feb 21, 2010

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:18:31 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:11:15 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:52:06 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:40:24 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Vladimir Vassilevsky" <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the
amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called
"double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil
it until it will be a uniform kasha.
Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How
long ago was that?

Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades?
No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done?

When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required
to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various
plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker."
These days many schools have switched some or all of their own
cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza
Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition
and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place,
food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no
remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready
walking distance of campus. )

But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely
frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much
cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly
gourmet quality.

Certainly can. A few weeks ago, one of the news reports here was that
Auburn was going to force every student to buy a meal plan, whether
they wanted it or not. Even those living off-campus.

IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets
exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types.

Apparently they're going to make that impossible, too. UVM required
Freshmen to live on-campus, even if they couldn't afford dorms and
could live at home. Alabama universities (Both 'bama and Auburn) are
also going that way, except not just for Freshmen.

Thirty-five years ago UIUC required Freshmen to live on campus, unless
they could live at home.

Very sad. And nobody does anything against that? I find it almost
discriminatory. I am not a fan of legal action but if those universities
receive even one dime in public funding I hope someone manages to get a
class together and challenge them.

Auburn and UofAlabama *are* the Alabama state universities (as are UVM
in Vermont and UIUC in Illinois). How is it discriminatory if
everyone is treated the same? Indeed that may be one of the reasons
(excuses) behind the stupidity. It's only "fair" if everyone suffers
together.

Well if they want to charge me like i live on campus, they better think well
about properly providing a cot and a roof to go with the three hots. Not
all students can so easily beat the cost of the meal plan, but those that
can, and need to, to stay in school are clearly being discriminated against.

The point is that you *would* live on campus. Of course you can beat
their prices, but that's not in their interest. The middle class are
far from being a protected class. Discrimination is perfectly legal.

I didn't back then and i couldn't now (way to much stuff plus a house). Of
course i always had to pay my own tuition/fees and buy my own books. Didn't
let that stop me either. But mandatory fees for students for services that
they cannot make reasonable use of is evil.

Of course they're evil. I had to pay an "intramural athletics
building" fee for a building I couldn't use and an "assembly hall fee"
for a building I couldn't afford to use (basketball and concert
venue). In fact, to show you how evil, they were voted on by the
student body. A no-vote was a *no* vote. But that's what leftists do
- evil. Nothing has changed.

There are such things as commuter
campuses, 70k students enrolled, 18k of them full time, more crowding in the
night classes.

Probably fewer night classes, too. Now they're doing on-line classes
(my son is caught up in this). Same tuition, more bodies per
instructor, zero infrastructure costs.

Jim Thompson · Feb 21, 2010

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:25:56 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:18:31 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

I didn't back then and i couldn't now (way to much stuff plus a house). Of
course i always had to pay my own tuition/fees and buy my own books. Didn't
let that stop me either. But mandatory fees for students for services that
they cannot make reasonable use of is evil.

Of course they're evil. I had to pay an "intramural athletics
building" fee for a building I couldn't use and an "assembly hall fee"
for a building I couldn't afford to use (basketball and concert
venue). In fact, to show you how evil, they were voted on by the
student body. A no-vote was a *no* vote. But that's what leftists do
- evil. Nothing has changed.

There are such things as commuter
campuses, 70k students enrolled, 18k of them full time, more crowding in the
night classes.

Probably fewer night classes, too. Now they're doing on-line classes
(my son is caught up in this). Same tuition, more bodies per
instructor, zero infrastructure costs.

When I first signed up at ASU for the Motorola-sponsored Master's
program, it was line after line of crap.

The last, and longest line, after I had stood there maybe 20 minutes,
I asked, "What is this line for?" Answer, "This is where you buy
discounted passes for all the sporting events."

My response, "FUCK!"

Stepped over the rope, and walked away, with everyone looking at me
like I was some kind of weirdo or something... I was 22... saved
myself $25, which was nearly a full day's pay back then... $6760
annual ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice

Phil Hobbs · Feb 21, 2010

On 2/20/2010 12:11 AM, krw wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:52:06 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:40:24 -0600, krw<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Vladimir Vassilevsky"<nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the
amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called
"double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil
it until it will be a uniform kasha.
Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How
long ago was that?

Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades?
No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done?

When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required
to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various
plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker."
These days many schools have switched some or all of their own
cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza
Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition
and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place,
food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no
remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready
walking distance of campus. )

But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely
frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much
cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly
gourmet quality.

Certainly can. A few weeks ago, one of the news reports here was that
Auburn was going to force every student to buy a meal plan, whether
they wanted it or not. Even those living off-campus.

IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets
exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types.

Apparently they're going to make that impossible, too. UVM required
Freshmen to live on-campus, even if they couldn't afford dorms and
could live at home. Alabama universities (Both 'bama and Auburn) are
also going that way, except not just for Freshmen.

Thirty-five years ago UIUC required Freshmen to live on campus, unless
they could live at home.

Very sad. And nobody does anything against that? I find it almost
discriminatory. I am not a fan of legal action but if those universities
receive even one dime in public funding I hope someone manages to get a
class together and challenge them.

Auburn and UofAlabama *are* the Alabama state universities (as are UVM
in Vermont and UIUC in Illinois). How is it discriminatory if
everyone is treated the same? Indeed that may be one of the reasons
(excuses) behind the stupidity. It's only "fair" if everyone suffers
together.

Well if they want to charge me like i live on campus, they better think well
about properly providing a cot and a roof to go with the three hots. Not
all students can so easily beat the cost of the meal plan, but those that
can, and need to, to stay in school are clearly being discriminated against.

The point is that you *would* live on campus. Of course you can beat
their prices, but that's not in their interest. The middle class are
far from being a protected class. Discrimination is perfectly legal.

Back in the day, universities were expected to act *in loco parentis*,
i.e. to protect their students against their own worst tendencies to
misbehave when they first leave home. That was a good thing in
general--these days, the universities don't want parents to have any say
at all.

As an aside, I've never understood the American tendency to try to
protect kids against alcohol until they're 18, and then send them away
to school to die of alcohol poisoning. My #1 daughter was an RA at a
college in Maryland, and she has some really hair-raising stories of
people in her dorms who could easily have died that way. Europeans have
a more sensible attitude--introduce it gradually so that by the time
they leave home, it's no big deal and they know their limits.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Joel Koltner · Feb 21, 2010

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4B80E524.F24776F7@earthlink.net...

I liked Speedscript for the C64, SX64 & C128. Not fancy, but easy to
use.

Agreed, until I purchased a copy of Paperclip III, Speedscript was what I used
for school and it worked fine.

Paperclip III was very impressive given the constrains of the machine. They
had so much software in there that your text buffer was only something like
8kB though! -- But of course it had a command to automatically link to your
next file, so when you went to print everything would be printed at once if
you wanted.

---Joel

Joel Koltner · Feb 21, 2010

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:fmq2o5lekcqfvf6a6nbn8l9hdjitgdcgkj@4ax.com...

Probably fewer night classes, too. Now they're doing on-line classes
(my son is caught up in this). Same tuition, more bodies per
instructor, zero infrastructure costs.

Where I am, there's usually a *surcharge!* to take an on-line class. They get
away with it because there isn't exactly much choice in the matter, and I
suppose that people just view it as a "convenience" fee, just as they're
willing to pay more for beer at 7-11 than at a regular grocery store.

But it's definitely not a very student-friendly policy.

Granted, all those on-line class takers *are* allowed to visit the campus and
check out some books from the library or use the swimming pool or whatever,
but obvious they know that on average very few of the facilities that tuition
helps to pay for are actually going to be used by on-line learners.

---Joel

Jim Thompson · Feb 21, 2010

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:44:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 2/20/2010 12:11 AM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:52:06 -0800,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:40:24 -0600, krw<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:38:08 -0800, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Vladimir Vassilevsky"<nospam@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:x_GdnbNeQpvYmuLWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
So-called "double soup": dissolve two packs of dry noodle soup in the
amount of water intended for one pack (that's why it was called
"double"), add some potatoes and whatever else you may have, then boil
it until it will be a uniform kasha.
Wow; that is meager. I'm glad you made it with your health intact! How
long ago was that?

Did you make tea with a pair of razor blades?
No, I surely didn't. Please elaborate on how it's done?

When I lived in the dorms at university's (1990-1994), you were required
to buy a meal plan from the university's cafeterias -- they had various
plans available, from "borderline-anorexic jockey" to "linebacker."
These days many schools have switched some or all of their own
cafeterias over to the nationwide fast food franchises -- Subwauy, Pizza
Hut, etc. Kinda sad; to some degree it reflects the fact that tuition
and books are so incredibly expensive these days in the first place,
food is now comparatively quite cheap. (I also suspect that there's no
remaining major college today that doesn't have a Starbucks within ready
walking distance of campus. )

But they can't make you live and eat on campus, can they? I rarely
frequented the cantinas of our university. They were cheap but not much
cheaper than cooking your own meals and the food there was not exactly
gourmet quality.

Certainly can. A few weeks ago, one of the news reports here was that
Auburn was going to force every student to buy a meal plan, whether
they wanted it or not. Even those living off-campus.

IMHO it is an important aspect of off-campus living that one gets
exposed to a larger spread of people and not just academic types.

Apparently they're going to make that impossible, too. UVM required
Freshmen to live on-campus, even if they couldn't afford dorms and
could live at home. Alabama universities (Both 'bama and Auburn) are
also going that way, except not just for Freshmen.

Thirty-five years ago UIUC required Freshmen to live on campus, unless
they could live at home.

Very sad. And nobody does anything against that? I find it almost
discriminatory. I am not a fan of legal action but if those universities
receive even one dime in public funding I hope someone manages to get a
class together and challenge them.

Auburn and UofAlabama *are* the Alabama state universities (as are UVM
in Vermont and UIUC in Illinois). How is it discriminatory if
everyone is treated the same? Indeed that may be one of the reasons
(excuses) behind the stupidity. It's only "fair" if everyone suffers
together.

Well if they want to charge me like i live on campus, they better think well
about properly providing a cot and a roof to go with the three hots. Not
all students can so easily beat the cost of the meal plan, but those that
can, and need to, to stay in school are clearly being discriminated against.

The point is that you *would* live on campus. Of course you can beat
their prices, but that's not in their interest. The middle class are
far from being a protected class. Discrimination is perfectly legal.

Back in the day, universities were expected to act *in loco parentis*,
i.e. to protect their students against their own worst tendencies to
misbehave when they first leave home. That was a good thing in
general--these days, the universities don't want parents to have any say
at all.

As an aside, I've never understood the American tendency to try to
protect kids against alcohol until they're 18, and then send them away
to school to die of alcohol poisoning. My #1 daughter was an RA at a
college in Maryland, and she has some really hair-raising stories of
people in her dorms who could easily have died that way. Europeans have
a more sensible attitude--introduce it gradually so that by the time
they leave home, it's no big deal and they know their limits.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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