Low Cost VOIP Providers

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/16/2013 12:00 PM, Joerg wrote:

I've been looking to pick up a small, single burner, propane
"camp stove" for the bug-out-bag. ...

Propane grills are for wusses

ducking

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an
emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something
more important! :> )

We've set up our bug-out-bags for different layers of response.
E.g., if we have to shelter-in-place, then we have access to
everything in the house and just need some place where we can
*reliably* find the sorts of items that we ONLY need in case
of an emergency.

If we have to *drive* out of the area, then we can probably
only carry the items that we've had the forethought to pre-pack
(assume emergency means "hurry"!). So, all the BoB's get
thrown in the car along with two 5G containers of water (that
we have to fill "as we depart").

If the car breaks down, runs out of gas (eventually) or if we
have to leave here on foot, then we have a subset of the BoBs
that we will take with us. I.e., always trying to take as
much as is *convenient* -- without overburdening ourselves
in the process.

A single burner propane stove and a few bottles of propane
take up far less space/weight than an equivalent volume of
briquettes (also generates a hotter heat, *faster* -- e.g.,
to sterilize a knife, boil utensils, etc.)

... I figure I always have bottled
propane on hand anyway for the torch. Opting for something
like a stove that burns white gas would mean I would have to store
that *just* for use with the stove (wasteful if we never need the
stove!)

Nah. Real men gather wood, make a fire, open a can of beer and then cook
over the fire.

In an emergency, I'm not keen on carrying one pound cans of beer
just so I can catch a buzz while fleeing <whatever> :>

Last outage, we tried using the toaster oven with a UPS. Worked
OK (resistive load) but was awfully wasteful of that "reserve power".
Next time I may try the microwave (more efficient use of power)
but I'm not sure how reactive that load would be and how much
I'd have to derate a UPS's capabilities to safely use one!

Fire up the old Weber. It's amazing what that can cook. Tonight we will
bake bread in it again, followed by spicy chicken wings that will be
eaten along with the fresh and still warm bread. Maybe also
cheese-filled jalapenos.

If we're operating without power, gas, etc., I'm probably not in
the mood for a leisurely meal outdoors! I'd be more interested
in keeping the house buttoned up (as cool or as warm as it is
going to be in the absence of auxillary heating/cooling) and
getting what needs to be done as efficiently as possible.

My "merit badge" days are *long* behind me!! :>

 

[Joerg]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Joerg,

On 8/16/2013 12:00 PM, Joerg wrote:

I've been looking to pick up a small, single burner, propane
"camp stove" for the bug-out-bag. ...

Propane grills are for wusses

ducking

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an
emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something
more important! :> )

Simple fix: It comes in dual bags, 22lbs per bag. And other sizes. But
we have a small plastic bucket with lid. Hold 5-6lbs, enough several
sessions. Unless it's serial pizza baking (we freeze some) or a turkey.

We've set up our bug-out-bags for different layers of response.
E.g., if we have to shelter-in-place, then we have access to
everything in the house and just need some place where we can
*reliably* find the sorts of items that we ONLY need in case
of an emergency.

If we have to *drive* out of the area, then we can probably
only carry the items that we've had the forethought to pre-pack
(assume emergency means "hurry"!). So, all the BoB's get
thrown in the car along with two 5G containers of water (that
we have to fill "as we depart").

If the car breaks down, runs out of gas (eventually) or if we
have to leave here on foot, then we have a subset of the BoBs
that we will take with us. I.e., always trying to take as
much as is *convenient* -- without overburdening ourselves
in the process.

A single burner propane stove and a few bottles of propane
take up far less space/weight than an equivalent volume of
briquettes (also generates a hotter heat, *faster* -- e.g.,
to sterilize a knife, boil utensils, etc.)

Think about the cowboys of the olden days. All they had on their horse
was a pan, a knife, some flour, a rifle, ammo, matches, coffee, tobacco,
water bottle, whiskey. I could do without the tobacco.

... I figure I always have bottled
propane on hand anyway for the torch. Opting for something
like a stove that burns white gas would mean I would have to store
that *just* for use with the stove (wasteful if we never need the
stove!)

Nah. Real men gather wood, make a fire, open a can of beer and then cook
over the fire.

In an emergency, I'm not keen on carrying one pound cans of beer
just so I can catch a buzz while fleeing <whatever> :

I even carried a six-pack all the way down the Grand Canyon when I was
young. The ranger shook her head, couldn't believe it.

Last outage, we tried using the toaster oven with a UPS. Worked
OK (resistive load) but was awfully wasteful of that "reserve power".
Next time I may try the microwave (more efficient use of power)
but I'm not sure how reactive that load would be and how much
I'd have to derate a UPS's capabilities to safely use one!

Fire up the old Weber. It's amazing what that can cook. Tonight we will
bake bread in it again, followed by spicy chicken wings that will be
eaten along with the fresh and still warm bread. Maybe also
cheese-filled jalapenos.

If we're operating without power, gas, etc., I'm probably not in
the mood for a leisurely meal outdoors! I'd be more interested
in keeping the house buttoned up (as cool or as warm as it is
going to be in the absence of auxillary heating/cooling) and
getting what needs to be done as efficiently as possible.

My "merit badge" days are *long* behind me!! :

Mine, too. But I actually enjoyed some of out "outage meals". Once while
others stood in line at the sandwich shop where the cash register didn't
work and everything was warm we had a gourmet meal. Meat, steamed
vegetables, whiskey-peppercorn sauce, country music from the portable
radio, the works. Beverages were kept cool in the pool.

This was the first major outage and it freaked out my wife a little.
After a while she thought it was actually quite cool.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:27:01 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an
emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something
more important! :> )

I heat my house with firewood.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/wood-burner.html>
When the power dies, a regular event during winter storms, I cook on
top of the wood burner. During summer, I have a home made grill and a
smoker that I use outside. For small jobs, I use a rusting hibachi.

Keeping the refrigerator alive is somewhat more complex.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Joerg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:27:01 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an
emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something
more important! :> )

I heat my house with firewood.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/wood-burner.html
When the power dies, a regular event during winter storms, I cook on
top of the wood burner. During summer, I have a home made grill and a
smoker that I use outside. For small jobs, I use a rusting hibachi.

While we are at it:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/splitter.JPG
http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/images/firewood07.JPG

Keeping the refrigerator alive is somewhat more complex.

For us the freezer was the problem. Now we have two Weber charcoal
barbies but even with the help of neighbors it is not possible to eat
that much.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/16/2013 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:

A single burner propane stove and a few bottles of propane
take up far less space/weight than an equivalent volume of
briquettes (also generates a hotter heat, *faster* -- e.g.,
to sterilize a knife, boil utensils, etc.)

Think about the cowboys of the olden days. All they had on their horse
was a pan, a knife, some flour, a rifle, ammo, matches, coffee, tobacco,
water bottle, whiskey. I could do without the tobacco.

The *core* bag has very little in it -- things that we could
carry for *days* if need be (knowing that *water* would be
what we were carrying in the other hand!).

E.g., a radio that operates off solar or a "crank"; a flint;
"workman multitool/knife"; balls of cotton & vaseline; some meds;
plastic sheeting (think tarp/tent); socks; mess kit; etc.

If we're operating without power, gas, etc., I'm probably not in
the mood for a leisurely meal outdoors! I'd be more interested
in keeping the house buttoned up (as cool or as warm as it is
going to be in the absence of auxillary heating/cooling) and
getting what needs to be done as efficiently as possible.

My "merit badge" days are *long* behind me!! :

Mine, too. But I actually enjoyed some of out "outage meals". Once while
others stood in line at the sandwich shop where the cash register didn't
work and everything was warm we had a gourmet meal. Meat, steamed
vegetables, whiskey-peppercorn sauce, country music from the portable
radio, the works. Beverages were kept cool in the pool.

This was the first major outage and it freaked out my wife a little.
After a while she thought it was actually quite cool.

I'm either working or trying to get a handle on the nature of the
outage. E.g., the natural gas outage wasn't immediately apparent
as such. Happened in the wee hours of the morning so its not
like I could call neighbors and ask if *they* had heat.

So, I spent a fair bit of time diagnosing the furnace (seemed
more likely that the furnace not lighting would be a local
problem to *this* house and not a city-wide gas outage! :> ).
Checking for news reports (online and OTA broadcast). And,
calling the gas company (I detected this *so* early that the
folks at the gas company weren't even aware of its extent).

Then, arranging so SWMBO wouldn't be uncomfortable when she
woke up to a cold house.

Thankfully, only heat and hot water are gas-fired, here.
So, we could still prepare meals indoors, etc. But, showers
are out of the question! (I delight in LONG, HOT showers!)

Once the sun came up and I could suspect the neighbors would be
stirring (they're up early to prepare for work), I could
phone them and compare notes...

Only after I *knew* there was nothing else that I could do
would I turn back to my "work".

(apparently, the plumbers got a boatload of business as folks
woke up without heat and naively called plumbers -- who
undoubtedly charged them for a visit and left them with a
diagnosis of "the gas is out all across town" :> )

 

[Don Y]

Hi Jeff,

On 8/16/2013 12:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Keeping the refrigerator alive is somewhat more complex.

We consider the refrigerator to be largely expendable.

The *freezer* usually will last a good long time in an
outage -- if we don't open it (it's a chest so it doesn't
lose as much "cool" when it is opened). We typically have
10+ gallons of OJ stashed in there (think: blocks of ice)

And, the most perishable items stored *low* to stay as cool
as possible for as long as possible.

I've thought of a small genset just for the freezer/refrig
but that draws too much "attention". And, the alternative
of powering it off a UPS seems like it would need a whopping big
UPS to not fail under the starting load (perhaps a FERRUPS?)

 

[rickman]

On 8/16/2013 4:58 AM, miso wrote:

Maybe I can dumb this down a bit. I assume the free calls are only to
people with SIP phones. If you need to connect to a POTS, there is a
charge.

VOIP/SIP is complicated. My ISP has been trying to get me over to their
VOIP for years, since that is their specialty. It just seems like too
much work for me for no real savings since I have way too many minutes
on my cellphone.

But here is something to contemplate. There are SIP apps for
smartphones. You could get a plan like that cheap $30 T-mobile plan that
only has 100 minutes of voice, and then use SIP from your phone on its
data plan to use the VOIP vendor directly, or maybe VPN to your router
and then VOIP as if you were at your house. Basically that is what
google voice does, well except for them spying on you.

If you built a new house, hell yeah, just SIP all your phones and put an
Asterik box in a closest somewhere. This is the future of telephony. In
fact, AT$T claimed they were going to just dump pots and make their
phone system totally digital. Of course they would bill you just like it
was POTS.

Thanks for the suggestions, but the minutes is only part of my problem.
Cell phones are crap for voice quality so I *much* prefer to use a
land line, even if it is VOIP as long as the quality is there. At one
of my locations cell coverage is spotty at best and it is not uncommon
for calls to be impossible, such as one end of my house...

The other reason I realized that VOIP was the solution to my problem is
that I spend a week at a time at my other house and the office phone
doesn't get answered.

So I can replace my office phone with VOIP and drag it around with me
(or have two adapters). Then some 90% of my calls are now at $0.02 a
minute plus I get great voice quality (relatively speaking) and I get to
answer my office phone when I'm not there...

I guess when I mention VOIP I am thinking of a service like Vonage where
they just sell you a solution, not something that requires a lot of
programming and crap. I don't think I need to pay $30 a month and some
of the lower cost similar services have a bad reputation for voice
quality and other issues. Someone mentioned paying per minute to
Vonage, maybe I'll look into that.

Callcentric seems like a reasonable deal although it is a little hard to
figure out what I'll be paying. Some places they talk about E911 fee as
being mandatory, but under some plans it is "included". I think they
just don't get that they are making it very complicated and it could be
better if they just priced it all into one figure. I get the impression
from some here that it might be a bit difficult to get it setup though.
I remember when getting your network to work was difficult, but
eventually that process was made simpler by all parties involved and
most of the time things just work now. Why can't they do that with
VOIP? That's a rhetorical question. I'm not interested in a lot of
technical stuff on the issue.

--

Rick

 

[Joerg]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Joerg,

On 8/16/2013 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote:
A single burner propane stove and a few bottles of propane
take up far less space/weight than an equivalent volume of
briquettes (also generates a hotter heat, *faster* -- e.g.,
to sterilize a knife, boil utensils, etc.)

Think about the cowboys of the olden days. All they had on their horse
was a pan, a knife, some flour, a rifle, ammo, matches, coffee, tobacco,
water bottle, whiskey. I could do without the tobacco.

The *core* bag has very little in it -- things that we could
carry for *days* if need be (knowing that *water* would be
what we were carrying in the other hand!).

E.g., a radio that operates off solar or a "crank"; a flint;
"workman multitool/knife"; balls of cotton & vaseline; some meds;
plastic sheeting (think tarp/tent); socks; mess kit; etc.

Well, we aren't quite that prepared. Yet.

If we're operating without power, gas, etc., I'm probably not in
the mood for a leisurely meal outdoors! I'd be more interested
in keeping the house buttoned up (as cool or as warm as it is
going to be in the absence of auxillary heating/cooling) and
getting what needs to be done as efficiently as possible.

My "merit badge" days are *long* behind me!! :

Mine, too. But I actually enjoyed some of out "outage meals". Once while
others stood in line at the sandwich shop where the cash register didn't
work and everything was warm we had a gourmet meal. Meat, steamed
vegetables, whiskey-peppercorn sauce, country music from the portable
radio, the works. Beverages were kept cool in the pool.

This was the first major outage and it freaked out my wife a little.
After a while she thought it was actually quite cool.

I'm either working or trying to get a handle on the nature of the
outage. E.g., the natural gas outage wasn't immediately apparent
as such. Happened in the wee hours of the morning so its not
like I could call neighbors and ask if *they* had heat.

So, I spent a fair bit of time diagnosing the furnace (seemed
more likely that the furnace not lighting would be a local
problem to *this* house and not a city-wide gas outage! :> ).
Checking for news reports (online and OTA broadcast). And,
calling the gas company (I detected this *so* early that the
folks at the gas company weren't even aware of its extent).

Then, arranging so SWMBO wouldn't be uncomfortable when she
woke up to a cold house.

We like to keep things autonomous, in our case a wood stove. The pellet
stove downstairs and the central gas heating can't be depended upon
because neither will work when the power is out. The wood stove has fans
which I could either take off within minutes or feed from a little
inverter and backup battery.

Thankfully, only heat and hot water are gas-fired, here.
So, we could still prepare meals indoors, etc. But, showers
are out of the question! (I delight in LONG, HOT showers!)

Once the sun came up and I could suspect the neighbors would be
stirring (they're up early to prepare for work), I could
phone them and compare notes...

Only after I *knew* there was nothing else that I could do
would I turn back to my "work".

(apparently, the plumbers got a boatload of business as folks
woke up without heat and naively called plumbers -- who
undoubtedly charged them for a visit and left them with a
diagnosis of "the gas is out all across town" :> )

Just imagine, in the olden days back when I was at university there was
a pressure meter on the gas line. Nowadays this has been dumbed down
just like operating systems and cars, no pressure meter. In the olden
days you would have known in seconds what was going on. Sniff around ...
no gas smell. Turn valve to off, meter still at or near zero -> Aha!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:27:01 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an
emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something
more important! :> )

I heat my house with firewood.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/wood-burner.html
When the power dies, a regular event during winter storms, I cook on
top of the wood burner. During summer, I have a home made grill and a
smoker that I use outside. For small jobs, I use a rusting hibachi.

Keeping the refrigerator alive is somewhat more complex.

NG for the Weber keeps working during a power failure. I think their
service standard is ~7 days. After that, if it ever happens, a lot of
stuff is going to be toast, including wastewater treatment which could
freeze and destroy the lagoons in winter (they're naturally heated by
bacteria, but if the city water pumps go out, then the flow down to
the lake stops and the bacteria run out of poo^H^H^H fuel).

I've been thinking about buying a small backup generator (maybe 4kW)
that would keep the furnace, fridge and other stuff running.. storing
gasoline in large quantities doesn't appeal to me, but a dual fuel
type that takes a propane input might be okay.

BTW, the original question in this thread-- I've been using
Clearswitch for a few SIP lines (including an 800 number) and it works
well enough (not as good as a good landline, but better than a cell
phone for North American calls anyway. I did splurge and get
top-drawer equipment.. I get the impression that a lot of those
complaining about VOIP quality are using a marginal ISP with a crappy
router and a $15 phone. Although the handsets on the Polycom HD phones
are not quite as substantial as those on the old black phones, they
don't get dragged around by the cord. Got mine from voipsupply.com (no
connection).

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:12:03 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

The other reason I realized that VOIP was the solution to my problem is
that I spend a week at a time at my other house and the office phone
doesn't get answered.
(...)
Callcentric seems like a reasonable deal although it is a little hard to
figure out what I'll be paying.

I dropped CallCentric before they had simultaneous ring, which is what
you need for your remote office. Today, they have it:
<http://www.callcentric.com/features/simultaneous_ringing>
Note that each phone has a different phone number, so you're adding
additional cost per number. On my system, there's no additional cost
for an "extension" on a single phone number.

I remember when getting your network to work was difficult, but
eventually that process was made simpler by all parties involved and
most of the time things just work now. Why can't they do that with
VOIP? That's a rhetorical question. I'm not interested in a lot of
technical stuff on the issue.

Short answer: The money is in the service, not the product. With
that arrangement, there's no incentive to make things easier, which
might reduce service revenue[1].

The service model you seek is the cable set top box model. You
buy/lease/rent a powerful set top box that can do many things. The
service provider does everything for you. All you do it plug it in,
turn it on, play, and pay the price. You don't get to do anything to
the set top box programming. That's how Vonage, Ooma, and others
work. The "locked" VoIP adapter that you get is locked in the
firmware for their system. Trying to move it to a different provider
is very difficult.


[1] The typical VoIP provider pays about $0.005/min to $0.008
wholesale for terminating a domestic POTS call. Typical rate
schedule:
<https://www.siptraffic.com/rates/>
If you burned 1000 minutes per month, that's a $5 to $8 cost to the
VoIP provider which they resell for $10 to $25/month. Since call
termination is only charged on outgoing calls, most providers offer
large amounts of free incoming minutes.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:11:15 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

I've thought of a small genset just for the freezer/refrig
but that draws too much "attention". And, the alternative
of powering it off a UPS seems like it would need a whopping big
UPS to not fail under the starting load (perhaps a FERRUPS?)

Careful. Generators and constant voltage ferroresonant transformers
are mutually incompatible. A ferroresonant xformer does a great job
of voltage regulation but only if it gets exactly 60.0 Hz line
frequency. Any variations produces variations in output voltage.
Roughly, a 1% change in frequency produces a 2% change in voltage.
That's not a problem with typical line frequency variations but might
be a problem with a generator where the operating frequency varies
somewhat with load. I have a big Sola something ferroresonant xformer
from an old minicomputer at a radio site.. It's great for power line
glitch removal, but a problem when the generator is running . It also
is rather inefficient (90%), gets warm, and creates enough buzzzzzz
that I have it hidden outside.

A ferrups has the advantage of having the UPS section run by a clock
oscillator. No variations in frequency like in the generator. When
the UPS is not active, it acts like a voltage regulating ferroresonant
xformer. It's probably overkill because the fridge or freezer motor
can easily handle voltage and frequency variations as well as
glitches.

Drivel: I have 3 generators, none of which work. There's a 4th
generator, that was scorched by a garage fire, waiting for me to drag
home. Yet another project.




--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/16/2013 1:17 PM, Joerg wrote:

E.g., a radio that operates off solar or a "crank"; a flint;
"workman multitool/knife"; balls of cotton & vaseline; some meds;
plastic sheeting (think tarp/tent); socks; mess kit; etc.

Well, we aren't quite that prepared. Yet.

Hurry! "The End is near" :>

(apparently, the plumbers got a boatload of business as folks
woke up without heat and naively called plumbers -- who
undoubtedly charged them for a visit and left them with a
diagnosis of "the gas is out all across town" :> )

Just imagine, in the olden days back when I was at university there was
a pressure meter on the gas line. Nowadays this has been dumbed down
just like operating systems and cars, no pressure meter. In the olden
days you would have known in seconds what was going on. Sniff around ...
no gas smell. Turn valve to off, meter still at or near zero -> Aha!

It was relatively easy to diagnose. I *assumed* there was a fault
with the furnace (seemed like a logical starting point).

First thing I had to sort out was the recovery time of the
furnace's internal controls. I.e., if it couldn't light
after a few attempts, it won't *try* to light for a certain
time interval. So, even though the thermostat was still calling
for heat, the furnace wouldn't act on it.

Yanking the plug is a great way to make the furnace forget
any timing loops that it may have started (and the folks
who coded them probably didn't think of this!).

Then, I watched the igniter and vent fan while listened for gas.
Poof! Flame when expected -- but quickly extinguished. (i.e.,
once the gas pressure in the *indoor* portion of the gas line
had been released).

Drag out volt meter to watch the coil on the gas valve and
you can see the furnace *wants* gas (i.e., it hasn't detected
some bizarre error condition and deliberately shut down the
gas supply).

Lather, rinse, repeat.

An automechanic's mantra ran through the back of my mind:
"If the car doesn't start, it's either fuel or ignition"
(which I always considered amazingly humorous!).

I know ignition is happening. I know it's calling for fuel.
So, only alternative is there *is* no fuel!

I then went to check the pilot in the water heater and
realized *it* was struggling (*two* appliances BOTH
having issues? either my gas meter/pressure regulator
is toast *or* there's a systemic supply problem)

Needless to say, when I replumbed the water supply, I
added gauges upstream and downstream of the (water) pressure
regulator so I could make these sorts of diagnoses easier!

 

[Joerg]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:44:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 12:27:01 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Kinda hard to lug 50 pounds of charcoal *out* in case of an
emergency! (I'd rather allocate that 50 pounds to something
more important! :> )
I heat my house with firewood.
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/wood-burner.html
When the power dies, a regular event during winter storms, I cook on
top of the wood burner. During summer, I have a home made grill and a
smoker that I use outside. For small jobs, I use a rusting hibachi.

Keeping the refrigerator alive is somewhat more complex.

NG for the Weber keeps working during a power failure. I think their
service standard is ~7 days. After that, if it ever happens, a lot of
stuff is going to be toast, including wastewater treatment which could
freeze and destroy the lagoons in winter (they're naturally heated by
bacteria, but if the city water pumps go out, then the flow down to
the lake stops and the bacteria run out of poo^H^H^H fuel).

I've been thinking about buying a small backup generator (maybe 4kW)
that would keep the furnace, fridge and other stuff running.. storing
gasoline in large quantities doesn't appeal to me, but a dual fuel
type that takes a propane input might be okay.

BTW, the original question in this thread-- I've been using
Clearswitch for a few SIP lines (including an 800 number) and it works
well enough (not as good as a good landline, but better than a cell
phone for North American calls anyway. I did splurge and get
top-drawer equipment.. I get the impression that a lot of those
complaining about VOIP quality are using a marginal ISP with a crappy
router and a $15 phone. Although the handsets on the Polycom HD phones
are not quite as substantial as those on the old black phones, they
don't get dragged around by the cord. Got mine from voipsupply.com (no
connection).

Actually no. It's enterprises who had a new VoIP system installed.
Mostly by large telco providers and tunning over the same LAN as the
computer stuff (that's IMHO a big mistake).


--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

Hi Jeff,

On 8/16/2013 2:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:11:15 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

I've thought of a small genset just for the freezer/refrig
but that draws too much "attention". And, the alternative
of powering it off a UPS seems like it would need a whopping big
UPS to not fail under the starting load (perhaps a FERRUPS?)

Careful. Generators and constant voltage ferroresonant transformers
are mutually incompatible.

Yes. I was commenting "one or the other". E.g., pondering whether
a FERRUPS would fare better when dealing with the motor load of
the refrigerator/freezer compressors than a traditional UPS...

A ferroresonant xformer does a great job
of voltage regulation but only if it gets exactly 60.0 Hz line
frequency. Any variations produces variations in output voltage.
Roughly, a 1% change in frequency produces a 2% change in voltage.
That's not a problem with typical line frequency variations but might
be a problem with a generator where the operating frequency varies
somewhat with load. I have a big Sola something ferroresonant xformer
from an old minicomputer at a radio site.. It's great for power line
glitch removal, but a problem when the generator is running . It also
is rather inefficient (90%), gets warm, and creates enough buzzzzzz
that I have it hidden outside.

A ferrups has the advantage of having the UPS section run by a clock
oscillator. No variations in frequency like in the generator. When
the UPS is not active, it acts like a voltage regulating ferroresonant
xformer. It's probably overkill because the fridge or freezer motor
can easily handle voltage and frequency variations as well as
glitches.

I'd be more concerned about the compressor motor frying the UPS.

Drivel: I have 3 generators, none of which work. There's a 4th
generator, that was scorched by a garage fire, waiting for me to drag
home. Yet another project.

Projects keep our minds agile! (at least, that's my story and
I'm sticking with it!! :> )

[Of course, they aren't necessarily easy on the *body*!]

I figure car's are a poor man's genset *if* you have a UPS
that can tolerate whatever load you want to feed. And, they
deal with the issue of "fuel storage" very conveniently -- while
ensuring the fuel never grows old from disuse! :>

 

[Charlie E.]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:08:51 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:47:07 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Uncle used to run a CO.

I used to work in a battery room in the 1960's.

Three memorable things from a private
tour he gave me as a kid:

Times have changed. A more recent tour:
http://www.wap.org/journal/cotour/
I have some photos of the local CO, but I had to promise not to
distribute them. Basically, it's a museum. Lots of ancient hardware
just occupying space. Plenty of Strowger switches and crossbar racks,
some of which were powered on. When I asked what they were doing, I
was told "depreciating".

Back in the '80s, I was a CO equipment maintainer on SxS switching.
Got hired on in Palm Desert, because they were going electronic,
trained all the existing guys to work on that, and then realized it
would be a year before they got rid of the other half of the switch!

I can still pretty much recall all the different relays, and what they
did in each switch...

And yes, you could HEAR when a switch went bad. You are talking to a
visitor, you pause, walk over four rows, climb a ladder, and busy out
a switch on the top row...

Charlie

 

[Charlie E.]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:32:32 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

I used to work in a battery room in the 1960's.

OK. I recall seeing banks of batteries. And some sort of
*motor* in continuous motion (I think something to do with ring?)

Yep, it provided the intermittent action of ring voltage (five
different frequencies for party line service!) and ring back. You had
to periodically lube and clean it!

Charlie

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:23:55 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Actually no. It's enterprises who had a new VoIP system installed.
Mostly by large telco providers and tunning over the same LAN as the
computer stuff (that's IMHO a big mistake).

Yup. Much safer to have an entirely separate LAN. The office I'm
sitting in now has good quality (Cisco) phones and a separate LAN with
It's pretty good, but there have been outages due to external factors
that don't often happen with gramps' land lines.

 

[Charlie E.]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:23:45 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

We had rose bushes out by the front door. Never did well. I
finally decided to dig them up and plant something else in their
place (had been there from previous owner).

Imagine my thoughts when I discovered a slab of concrete about
12" beneath the soil level! "Sheesh! No wonder the damn things
never thrived!" (Apparently, builder had dumped all his surplus
concrete in that location, then covered it up with dirt...)

When we bought our first house, the back yard (all 400 square feet of
it!) was bare, so we decided to plant grass. Using an old rake, we
started trying to at least 'rough up' the surface, since it was hard
baked clay. Back in the middle of area, we hit a piece of old wire
that didn't want to come up. Get out the shove, go down about three
inches, hit what looks like plaster or cement! Start digging around,
and about an hour later we had a two foot deep hole around three feet
wide and a trash can full of construction debris.

We planted our lime tree there!

 

[Joerg]

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:23:55 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:


Actually no. It's enterprises who had a new VoIP system installed.
Mostly by large telco providers and tunning over the same LAN as the
computer stuff (that's IMHO a big mistake).

Yup. Much safer to have an entirely separate LAN.

Or leave the old PBX system in there and maybe upgrade that a little,
then use the saved funds to buy everyone a trip to the Caribbean

... The office I'm
sitting in now has good quality (Cisco) phones and a separate LAN with
It's pretty good, but there have been outages due to external factors
that don't often happen with gramps' land lines.

I am sticking with gramp's landline. There is a cost but I am willing to
pay for reliability.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/16/2013 2:41 PM, Joerg wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:23:55 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Actually no. It's enterprises who had a new VoIP system installed.
Mostly by large telco providers and tunning over the same LAN as the
computer stuff (that's IMHO a big mistake).

Yup. Much safer to have an entirely separate LAN.

You don't need a separate *physical* LAN if you can provide QoS
guarantees on a *shared* LAN. E.g., here, I pass video, audio,
general network traffic (HTTP/FTP/etc.) on the same physical lan.
But, enforce what gets routed where very carefully. I think
you can do this with some COTS gear -- but you probably need
more than your nominal IT guy to set it up properly!

Or leave the old PBX system in there and maybe upgrade that a little,
then use the saved funds to buy everyone a trip to the Caribbean

In my case, run CAT1 (in my case, CAT3 & CAT5) alongside your
network drops *just* for voice service.

... The office I'm
sitting in now has good quality (Cisco) phones and a separate LAN with
It's pretty good, but there have been outages due to external factors
that don't often happen with gramps' land lines.

I am sticking with gramp's landline. There is a cost but I am willing to
pay for reliability.

Agreed. Having known several friends in need of "emergency services"
recently, I am sure they were happy they "got dialtone" when they
*really* needed it!