Low Cost VOIP Providers

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 03:21:44 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

They talk about taking your phone unit with you on trips. Is it a
simple matter to change the E911 setup when you go other places? I
would likely be taking it between two locations and would want a *very*
simple way to adjust the E911 setup on hooking it up. At one location
it would be the most reliable means of reaching emergency services, so I
want that to work.

No. E911 is a MAJOR problem. Your VoIP phone number is registered to
a specific location (physical address). When you call 911, the call
goes to the PSAP that handles calls for that area. If you are calling
from out of the area, it still looks like it's coming from the
registered location.

With Future-Nine and other VoIP providers, E911 service is ugly. To
start with, the service cannot be cancelled once it's setup. That's
$1/month permanently. You can change the address, but it's not easy.
For example, when I login to my account, this is what I see:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Future-Nine-E911.jpg>
Instead, I have a collection alternative access numbers written on the
phone and one programmed into the dial plan. Note that most PSAP's
consider the direct numbers to be confidential, so you will have
difficulties obtaining them. The SIP phone can trap the 911 dialing
sequence, and convert it to a different number as part of the dial
plan. For example, if the dial plan includes:
911S0|12345678
It will dial 12345678 if 911 is dialed. (The S0 sets the interdigit
dialer delay to zero, which is a good idea if you're in a hurry). I
don't think it's practical to do all this for every trip.

Note that you may also need to register your phone for the local
emergency notification system. It's much the same as E911, where once
registered, it's a pain to change or unregister. Here's the local
page for Santa Cruz CA.
<http://www.scr911.org>

In my case, I have the same phone number ringing at 3 different
locations, in 3 different jurisdictions. Which location do I use for
E911 registration? Dunno.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:29:33 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:01:38 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.
I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.

We do lay caregiving as one of our volunteer activities. Some of that
happens in person, some over long distance phone. So we have lined up
discount options because those sessions can be 1-1/2h regularly. One
person has signed up for a "deal" where the landline was dropped. Since
that time the discount carriers can no longer dial into that number.

Another example is at a large enterprise. They have a 1-866 service for
phone conferencing. Probably also some supposedly "good deal". 1-866
should be toll-free, right? Well, one fine day I got a message
"Deedle-deedle-dee ... We are sorry, this number requires a toll
connection".
Ooma? Or are you just whistling negatives?

Not Ooma. I was talking about people who went to VoIP deals. I am not
whistling, those are things that really happened.


The only issues I've heard of are recalcitrant land-line companies
refusing the porting, or uncooperative and slo-o-o-ow.

You're in Californica... need I say more ?>:-}

And no, not just in California. One recent case was in Ohio.

Going cheap will get you screwed >:-}

Like I said before, not the cheapest, but works great...

First of May I changed from Centurylink (nee Qwest) to Ooma. I went
Premier, so I'm effectively $12.28/month (each line, I have two,
prepaid rate).

Nice features, including a personalized reject list, since the Federal
DoNotCall is a farce.

Internet down? Automatically forwards to my cellphone.

In Phoenix and surroundings that's possible. Out here, less so. We live
so far outside metropolis that cell coverage is spotty. Internet doesn't
go down as much as it used to but I would not want to rely on it.

The real comeuppance for most people who ditched their landlines happens
during a power outage and due to frequent wildfires we do have those.
This is why there is an old POTS phone-phone here in my office plus a
few spares in the garage. Internet and cordlesss phones will go down
instantly, cell towers may last a few hours but usually no more. I've
never had the landline go out.

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joe Chisolm]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:38:09 -0400, rickman wrote:
[snip]

I appreciate your effort, but the issues of the protocol are not what
I'm asking about. The VoIP provider talks about "Free outgoing SIP
calls". I need to know what this means in their context. Oddly enough
I don't see any contact info and their web site is an odd assortment of
pages that are poorly organized. They talk about E911 on one page as
not being up yet because they are in "beta" status, but this is dated
2008. Elsewhere they say they have E911. Elsewhere still they say E911
is not free but go to their "rate" page and all you get is a "call
simulator" which gives you per minute rates for calls between various
locations. No where do they define what they are talking about by SIP
calls.

I'm not sure I can deal with a company that has no phone support, no
email contact, in fact, no contact info at all! WTF???!!!

I have not dug through their web pages but I suspect they are talking
about VoIP to VoIP calls. This does not cost them anything from a telco
standpoint. It may also be they cover their LD cost in the total
package cost. Several do that now days. The provider buys a boat
load of LD time and get it very cheap. Then just bundle some number
of LD minutes into the users monthly charge. The fine print probably
has some limit on your LD. Some providers dont. They just live on the
edge and depend on the normal usage patterns. A few accounts use
gobs of LD but most dont so it evens out.

The wire line and wireless players (Verizon, ATT, etc) have gateways
for VoIP to PSTN calls. For calls the VoIP provider has to route
out the gateway the provider is going to get charged for the call,
in some form or fashion. It may be local metered or toll or some
other billing method. If the call stays "on net" it never hits the
gateway, thus no call charges. Ma Bell's children, nieces and
nephews, in laws and out laws, know nothing of the call.

E911 is a different creature. A VoIP provider has to have
dedicated trunks from their equipment to the switches that handle
the E911 calls. There is also address information that has to flow
between the provider and the E911 centers. Also, at least a year or
so ago, you could not advertise VoIP "E911" as life line. There is no
5 9's type requirement for "Rick's Internet and Emporium". Do not
depend on VoIP E911 to save your life.

An ATA is a little box that lets you plug in your normal PSTN handset
and hook up to your local LAN. When you pick up the handset the ATA
starts talking SIP to your VoIP providers servers. There is a bunch
of other crap that goes on, but basically it just turns your normal
phone into a VoIP phone. I know people that will take a ATA/phone
with them when they travel. They plug the ATA into a local network
and have a "local" phone back home. I think now days for domestic
travel it is not worth the effort - just use a cell phone.

--
Chisolm
Republic of Texas

 

[David Platt]

In article <kuhvir$p1k$1@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

Obviously there is something going on that I don't understand. I am
picturing a small box, about the size of a router, which connects
between my phone and an Ethernet port on a router.

Jargon: what you are referring to is usually called an ATA (Analog
Telephone Adapter).

I pick up the phone,
dial a number and the person at the other end says, "Hello", the call
has been connected. Where exactly would I enter such an ID?

On that sort of simple device, you might not be able to.

Some of them do allow it, in one way or another. Most such devices
actually have small Web servers installed, that can be used to
configure them. You might be able to use your PC to access the
device's configuration web page, and program a SIP URI into it as a
"speed dial" setting. Then, you could call this address from the
phone by entering a speed dial code (e.g. 123# to access dialing entry
123) and the call would be routed directly over the Internet to your
friend's SIP phone or adapter, without ever going through the PSTN.

If you're making SIP calls through a softphone program running on a PC
(using a USB or Bluetooth headset or handset, for example) then it's
often possible to type a SIP address directly into a field in the
program's dialer window and call directly.

This is the setup a friend has and pays $10 a month on top of her cell
phone bill. She gets unlimited calls and long distance to the best of
my knowledge. I'm looking for something like that. $10 a month would
be great.

There are a number of companies which specialize in providing this
sort of "drop-in" VoIP replacement for a land line. Typically,
they'll sell you the necessary ATA (either fully preconfigured, or
"plug it in and turn it on and it contacts our servers and configures
itself"), handle the number porting, provide you with a DID (phone
number) or port over your existing number if you request, and provide
you with some amount of call minutes per month (possibly "unlimited
within the continental USA"), all for a flat fee (either per-month,
per-year, or "lifetime of the device").

Big players in this sort of "easy to set up, simple to use"
arrangement include Vontage, Magic Jack, and Ooma. One of those
sorts of providers may be the right choice for you.

Beyond this point... well, you really do need to understand VoIP in
order to make intelligent choices. You can save money, add
flexibility, and add lots of features... but you need to understand
the technology and business well enough to know what to ask for, and
how to manage your end of the setup.

The next tier of provider is probably companies like CallCentric and
Vitelity. They let you pick and choose different sorts of inbound and
outbound service (you don't have to have both, and if you do they
don't necessarily have to have the same billing rates), they let you
use your own ATA or IP phone or softphone or Asterisk server (although
many providers will be glad to sell you one), and they give you more
control over things via their web portal. These two companies seem to
have pretty good and flexible web setups for controlling your
account... for example on Vitelity you can order and activate a second
phone number in a matter of moments.

Then, there are smaller "bargain" providers such as Future Nine.
Their prices may be lower than the previous tier, but their service
and support is scarcer (less "hand holding" on the Web or via email or
phone... possibly none to speak of). With these providers, you really
do need to understand the technology and what your needs are.

There are also providers who specialize in providing VoIP support to
businesses... they expect to be working with corporate IP folks,
processing orders for hundreds or thousands of lines, helping manage
high-volume IP trunks, and so forth. Providers like this don't have
much presence in the retail space and may have large minimum orders or
service commitments.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 03:44:56 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

I hadn't considered having multiple units at the different locations.
That could work for me. One unit set up all the time at one location
and a second unit for traveling. Yes, that could work great. Can you
even call yourself from one location to another or would it just ring
busy? lol

I've never tried it, mostly because I'm not in 2 places at one time.
Since the call is NOT going through the Future-Nine switch, but is
rather SIP to SIP, there would be no charges. I kinda cheat and have
static IP addresses at both ends, so a direct connection would not
need a number lookup, but could also be done with DDNS. I also cheat
and have one of my 4 "lines" setup for a direct SIP to SIP connection,
but not between my phones. I'm sure I can make it work, even with a
one line SIP phone.

My service is through a very small outfit (one guy I believe) off a
private tower using a 900 MHz radio link. I"m in the center of nowhere
basically and this is much better than satellite.

Measure the jitter, especially when there's lots of traffic. Setup
QoS. Then play.

I haven't found out
who he deals with for his connections.

Run traceroute to see who provides his backhaul. I do radio links and
they can have rather severe packet loss if there is interference
present. You won't see it at the MAC or IP layers because the radios
retransmit lost packets. However, you'll see it as erratic changes in
latency, which shows up as jitter. Run a continuous ping test to your
gateway router over the wireless link using a better resolution ping
than what MS provides, such as:
<http://www.kwakkelflap.com/fping.html>
If you see wide variations in latency and/or lost packets, you have
jitter.

I'd love to get involved with
him. He seems to know how to make it all work, but he is no businessman
and especially no salesperson. In fact just the opposite, he drives
business away.

I've done much the same thing with my computer consulting biz. Every
year, I would make a list of my customers, in order of revenue
generated and how high they raised my blood pressure. I would then
sort them to determine which customers were the most aggravating and
least profitable. They were asked to go find someone else to do their
work. After 30 years of filtering, I have a fairly reliable customer
base. (The only problem is that everyone is getting older and
retiring).

You seem to have a different picture of making phone calls. I'm
guessing you are thinking in terms of some application on a PC or
something similar. I'm thinking of a phone that connects to a little
box that connects to the Internet.

Yep and there's a reason for that. With the PSTN (public switched
telephone network), all you have to do is dial the phone number, and
the call goes through. Everything in between is handled by Ma Bell.
The most complicated thing you'll run into is dialing a 1 for long
distance and area codes.

The various VoIP networks are NOT part of the PSTN. This is for good
reason as the major cost savings in using VoIP are to *NOT* go through
the PSTN. In order to do that, you need to know how the call is
routed, how to dial, and possibly some diagnostics. If you don't want
to do all that, then just get a full service VoIP provider with
support, and let them deal with it for you.

(Last time I checked, this is still a technical newsgroup).

Again, none of that means anything useful to me as a customer. If I
have to do anything more than dial a phone number I don't want it.

Sigh. I'm disappointed.

Isn't it the job of the provider to figure all that out? Or are you
saying these are potential problems my Internet access provider might
create?

Sure. I was assuming that you wanted something "Low Cost" as
described in your Subject line. You don't get full service and
support along with low cost. If you want "Low Cost", you have to do
much of the work yourself.

To make outgoing calls, your SIP phone will need a dial plan. Here's
mine:
(*xx|[3469]11|0|00|[2-9]xxxxxx|1xxx[2-9]xxxxxxS0|[2-9]xx[2-9]xxxxxxS0|xxxxxxxxxxxx.)
Note the general lack of an intuitive structure.

LOL! How do you punch the special chars into your phone?

You don't. It's part of the programming (provisioning) of the phone.
I spend quite a bit of time tinkering with the dial plan, so I've
gotten to know it quite well. Trick, such as a password for long
distance, are easy. However, the first time I saw one, I knew that it
was going to be an uphill battle. More:
<http://www.toao.net/108-linksys-dial-plan-tips>
<http://wiki.voip.ms/article/Dial_Plan_for_Linksys_ATAs>
<http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10033/products_qanda_item09186a0080a35a44.shtml>

Hint: If you don't want to deal with all this, find a vendor that
will do it for you.

Ok, so I assume this is *not* Future Nine?

Definitely not. Future-Nine is cheap and reasonably reliable. They
are not for users that need tech support, setup help, hand holding,
and troubleshooting assistance. What you gain by rolling your own
VoIP device are features, versatility, control, and low cost. If
these are not worthwhile and a simple POTS replacement will suffice,
any of the full service providers should suffice.

Ok, I think this is not the company for me. I want a phone, not a
gadget that I'll be constantly hacking with to keep it working.

I was doing quite a bit of hacking the first year or so while I was
learning how it worked. I haven't done much more than minor tweaks in
the last 2 years or so. Most of what I do is setup other peoples VoIP
systems for them. If your expectations do not go beyond a POTS
replacement, you won't need to do much hacking. If you are going to
use any of the admittedly complex features, some tinkering will be
required.




--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 9:54 AM, Joerg wrote:

The real comeuppance for most people who ditched their landlines happens
during a power outage and due to frequent wildfires we do have those.
This is why there is an old POTS phone-phone here in my office plus a
few spares in the garage. Internet and cordlesss phones will go down
instantly, cell towers may last a few hours but usually no more. I've
never had the landline go out.

Agreed. The phone service *within* our house is moving to "over IP"
(though not strictly VoIP -- as I just deal with phones as "audio
devices" in much the same way I deal with "speakers" on the network).

But, there will be a bridge between the PSTN (landline) and the house
so I can avail myself of the high availability associated with that
legacy network while augmenting it (internally) with features that
wouldn't typically be available on a wired landline.

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :<
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

I'm far more concerned about getting EMS when/if I *need* it
("seconds count").

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade). OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:35:39 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

Ummm... I think it's called a relay. Connect the solenoid to
something that monitors AC power, such as a common wall wart. The
contacts switch the POTS phone from the ATA when energized, to the
POTS line when the power drops.

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade).

We just had Comcast business class service installed in our office
building. They had to run the coax across the roadway. The service
was highly reliable for exactly one week, when the city decided to
replace a sewer line, and dug up the Comcast cable.

OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

I live in earthquake country. I'm visualizing thousands of wire
breaks after the next earthquake.

Incidentally, the main PG&E natural gas line runs down the street in
front of my office. It's the same type that ruptured and blew up in
San Bruno in 2010. Yep, trees everywhere but I'm good at ignoring
impending disasters.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Joerg]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 9:54 AM, Joerg wrote:

The real comeuppance for most people who ditched their landlines happens
during a power outage and due to frequent wildfires we do have those.
This is why there is an old POTS phone-phone here in my office plus a
few spares in the garage. Internet and cordlesss phones will go down
instantly, cell towers may last a few hours but usually no more. I've
never had the landline go out.

Agreed. The phone service *within* our house is moving to "over IP"
(though not strictly VoIP -- as I just deal with phones as "audio
devices" in much the same way I deal with "speakers" on the network).

VoIP in the house is fine, as long as that doesn't use the regular
Ethernet. That's the problem in companies, they get suckered into deals
"Oh, it'll be low cost, we can use your existing LAN" and then they have
to live through phases of dismal voice quality.

But, there will be a bridge between the PSTN (landline) and the house
so I can avail myself of the high availability associated with that
legacy network while augmenting it (internally) with features that
wouldn't typically be available on a wired landline.

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

Just keep an older phone plugged in at all times.

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

What other color would you want?

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

I'm far more concerned about getting EMS when/if I *need* it
("seconds count").

Yes, that's the other advantage. People ditching their landlines usually
don't think about all this. It doesn't have to be the ambulance, it
could be something more simple, like getting the advice nurse on the
phone after a spider bite. If all you have left is the cell phone and
the tower already ran out of juice this can become harrowing.

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade). OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

Not sure if it's done that way in the US but in Europe we learned to do
it this way: Make a trench much wider than needed. Fill with sand, lay
cable but in a way that it meanders a wee bit, more sand, then top it
off with thin bricks of commensurate width. The bricks won't let roots
get through but will also prevent a sharp whack with a shovel. The sand
has little nutrition in it even after years so roots don't like it much.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

Hi Jeff,

On 8/15/2013 11:13 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:35:39 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

Ummm... I think it's called a relay. Connect the solenoid to
something that monitors AC power, such as a common wall wart. The
contacts switch the POTS phone from the ATA when energized, to the
POTS line when the power drops.

Too trivial a control algorithm. You need to be able to "drop"
(in your example) the relay even when power is available (if
you sense something else has compromised the internal phone service).
Also, consuming electricity 24/7 to protect against something that
isn't *expected* to happen is wasteful. Smarter to use a latching
relay with a power reserve that you can "pulse" the latch/release
coil as needed.

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

<http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg>

Phone has to reside *in* a closet (I don't want to "see"
any phones in the house!) and only accessed in times of
service outages, etc.

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade).

We just had Comcast business class service installed in our office
building. They had to run the coax across the roadway. The service
was highly reliable for exactly one week, when the city decided to
replace a sewer line, and dug up the Comcast cable.

Here, runs across the street are less than 2 inches into
the asphalt! E.g., it is not uncommon to come across an
"exposed" cable -- esp along the sides of the roadway,
away from the crown (more tire wear).

In this block, two such lines were recently reburied.
I suspect we'll be seeing them, again, sometime after
the winter rains...

The actual cable *feed* is barely down a foot along the
side of the roadway. It's been patched *twice* in front
of our house in the years we've lived here. No idea
how often it has failed elsewhere in the neighborhood.

Seeing individual feeds to residences ON TOP of the soil
(for months or years -- permanent tempporary fix!) is
not uncommon. And you want to rely on this for *what*??

OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

I live in earthquake country. I'm visualizing thousands of wire
breaks after the next earthquake.

Uncle used to run a CO. Three memorable things from a private
tour he gave me as a kid:
- the room in the basement where *all* the lines come in
(think sewer pipe full of copper wires!)
- the room upstairs where all these individual pairs are
fanned out for access/interconnect
- the little jet engine in the shed out back that ran the
backup generator

Incidentally, the main PG&E natural gas line runs down the street in
front of my office. It's the same type that ruptured and blew up in
San Bruno in 2010. Yep, trees everywhere but I'm good at ignoring
impending disasters.

They just replaced the gas service throughout the neighborhood
this year. All new service drops, feeds, etc. I think they
are down a minimum of 36 inches *and* located under the roadway.
So, while a tree's root crown can easily be several feet "tall"
(thick? vertically), it's unlikely that any sizable roots would
be able to get at the pipes, there.

(though we've had contractors rip up lines through careless
use of back hoes...)

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 11:22 AM, Joerg wrote:

Don Y wrote:

But, there will be a bridge between the PSTN (landline) and the house
so I can avail myself of the high availability associated with that
legacy network while augmenting it (internally) with features that
wouldn't typically be available on a wired landline.

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

Just keep an older phone plugged in at all times.

Then that phone rings all the time! :< Did I mention I consider
a telephone (doorbell, etc.) to be an *interruption* and don't
think "others" should have the final say on whether and when I
am "interrupted"? :>

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

What other color would you want?

In this case, green (see URL in my reply to Jeff). Not my ideal
choice of color. Rather, dictated by the type of phone that I
wanted and what I had available in my "telephone stash".

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

I'm far more concerned about getting EMS when/if I *need* it
("seconds count").

Yes, that's the other advantage. People ditching their landlines usually
don't think about all this. It doesn't have to be the ambulance, it
could be something more simple, like getting the advice nurse on the
phone after a spider bite. If all you have left is the cell phone and
the tower already ran out of juice this can become harrowing.

Or, your (cell) *battery* dies while you're in mid sentence!! (oops!)

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade). OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

Not sure if it's done that way in the US but in Europe we learned to do
it this way: Make a trench much wider than needed. Fill with sand, lay
cable but in a way that it meanders a wee bit, more sand, then top it
off with thin bricks of commensurate width. The bricks won't let roots
get through but will also prevent a sharp whack with a shovel. The sand
has little nutrition in it even after years so roots don't like it much.

It's called "shading". Different utilities require it to different
extents -- no doubt related to the value of protecting the line!

E.g., gas mains are shaded 12" or more on all sides. Electric
is 6", I think. Goal is to prevent rocks and other "hard things"
from approaching the service line and physically damaging it
(e.g., a rock slowly being pressed into a gas main and causing
a small fracture -- gas then follows the pipe in each direction
until it can find an outlet... in a home, etc.)

We're very dry, here. So, plants go out of their way to exploit
any water sources available. Soil has a high clay content so
it doesn't drain well. Nor does water seep *into* it -- unless
it has already been disturbed (e.g., by someone digging a trench!).
Once water has a way to get down to a certain depth, it will pool
*at* that depth -- draining dreadfully slowly.

[When I planted the first orange tree, I initially dug a 4'x4'x4'
hole. (I was told, "imagine you are carving a flower pot out of
the soil... how big a pot do you think a *tree* needs?") You could
fill this hole with water and it would still be there *days* later!
I.e., "it's not deep enough -- keep digging until you break through
the clay layer..."]

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Don Y wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg

Is that modular, or does it have spade lugs?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

On 8/15/2013 12:52 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Don Y wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg

Is that modular, or does it have spade lugs?

Modular on both ends (there were some products that had a funky
flat & wide connector on the handset end)

 

[Joerg]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 11:22 AM, Joerg wrote:
Don Y wrote:

But, there will be a bridge between the PSTN (landline) and the house
so I can avail myself of the high availability associated with that
legacy network while augmenting it (internally) with features that
wouldn't typically be available on a wired landline.

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

Just keep an older phone plugged in at all times.

Then that phone rings all the time! :< Did I mention I consider
a telephone (doorbell, etc.) to be an *interruption* and don't
think "others" should have the final say on whether and when I
am "interrupted"? :

Well, just use a relay then. Safest might be a wall wart and a low
voltage relay. It can also be fed from some other apparatus that would
blitz off when power is lost. But reduce the relay current after
engagement to a safe hold current so it doesn't become too hot.

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

What other color would you want?

In this case, green (see URL in my reply to Jeff). Not my ideal
choice of color. Rather, dictated by the type of phone that I
wanted and what I had available in my "telephone stash".

Just get a beige phone?

In Germany I had a green phone on my fax line. It came with black cords
which looked good. Otherwise SWMBO would have said something.

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

I'm far more concerned about getting EMS when/if I *need* it
("seconds count").

Yes, that's the other advantage. People ditching their landlines usually
don't think about all this. It doesn't have to be the ambulance, it
could be something more simple, like getting the advice nurse on the
phone after a spider bite. If all you have left is the cell phone and
the tower already ran out of juice this can become harrowing.

Or, your (cell) *battery* dies while you're in mid sentence!! (oops!)

At least you can charge it from the car battery.

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade). OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

Not sure if it's done that way in the US but in Europe we learned to do
it this way: Make a trench much wider than needed. Fill with sand, lay
cable but in a way that it meanders a wee bit, more sand, then top it
off with thin bricks of commensurate width. The bricks won't let roots
get through but will also prevent a sharp whack with a shovel. The sand
has little nutrition in it even after years so roots don't like it much.

It's called "shading". Different utilities require it to different
extents -- no doubt related to the value of protecting the line!

E.g., gas mains are shaded 12" or more on all sides. Electric
is 6", I think. Goal is to prevent rocks and other "hard things"
from approaching the service line and physically damaging it
(e.g., a rock slowly being pressed into a gas main and causing
a small fracture -- gas then follows the pipe in each direction
until it can find an outlet... in a home, etc.)

We're very dry, here. So, plants go out of their way to exploit
any water sources available. Soil has a high clay content so
it doesn't drain well. Nor does water seep *into* it -- unless
it has already been disturbed (e.g., by someone digging a trench!).
Once water has a way to get down to a certain depth, it will pool
*at* that depth -- draining dreadfully slowly.

Probably good policy to run the auger every few feet and drill down a
bit more from the bottom of the trench, then fill those holes with
gravel and sand.

[When I planted the first orange tree, I initially dug a 4'x4'x4'
hole. (I was told, "imagine you are carving a flower pot out of
the soil... how big a pot do you think a *tree* needs?") You could
fill this hole with water and it would still be there *days* later!
I.e., "it's not deep enough -- keep digging until you break through
the clay layer..."]

However, then you lose a lot of water because it gets slurped into the
lower layers where it does no good in watering plants.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Michael,

On 8/15/2013 12:52 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Don Y wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg

Is that modular, or does it have spade lugs?

Modular on both ends (there were some products that had a funky
flat & wide connector on the handset end)

I may still have a hundred or so, if you don't need 25'.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 1:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

Don Y wrote:
[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

What other color would you want?

In this case, green (see URL in my reply to Jeff). Not my ideal
choice of color. Rather, dictated by the type of phone that I
wanted and what I had available in my "telephone stash".

Just get a beige phone?

Hard finding a trimline *wall* phone with a mechanical ringer.
And, the integrated "dual stud" mounting. Ideally, WE and not
some crap clone. (i.e., do I spend my time finding a phone
or a coiled cord? :> )

In Germany I had a green phone on my fax line. It came with black cords
which looked good. Otherwise SWMBO would have said something.

Currently has a long (25'?) green cord. But, I want a *short* cord
as it hangs on the wall, reasonably close to the ground (so I don't
want the excess coiled cord spooling on the ground beneath it).

It's out of sight so I've replaced the long cord with a black
short cord (more in line with the cords you would find on a
500 series desk set). But, it will bug me that it's not
"right"... :-/

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

I'm far more concerned about getting EMS when/if I *need* it
("seconds count").

Yes, that's the other advantage. People ditching their landlines usually
don't think about all this. It doesn't have to be the ambulance, it
could be something more simple, like getting the advice nurse on the
phone after a spider bite. If all you have left is the cell phone and
the tower already ran out of juice this can become harrowing.

Or, your (cell) *battery* dies while you're in mid sentence!! (oops!)

At least you can charge it from the car battery.

Sure! As long as the spider's venom isn't fast acting! :>

We're very dry, here. So, plants go out of their way to exploit
any water sources available. Soil has a high clay content so
it doesn't drain well. Nor does water seep *into* it -- unless
it has already been disturbed (e.g., by someone digging a trench!).
Once water has a way to get down to a certain depth, it will pool
*at* that depth -- draining dreadfully slowly.

Probably good policy to run the auger every few feet and drill down a
bit more from the bottom of the trench, then fill those holes with
gravel and sand.

Thats what I did with all the (hand dug) holes for the various
valve boxes (irrigation) scattered around the yard. Poured a
small concrete slab *under* each set of valves (so there is a
"finished" surface to support them and keep the soil from
intruding) with a weep hole in the center that feeds a bed
of sand *beneath* the slab.

So, heavy rains (think Monsoon) and/or leaking valves don't
result in a water-filled hole!

[When I planted the first orange tree, I initially dug a 4'x4'x4'
hole. (I was told, "imagine you are carving a flower pot out of
the soil... how big a pot do you think a *tree* needs?") You could
fill this hole with water and it would still be there *days* later!
I.e., "it's not deep enough -- keep digging until you break through
the clay layer..."]

However, then you lose a lot of water because it gets slurped into the
lower layers where it does no good in watering plants.

For water to percolate through 4 ft of soil, the tree has had
a good deal of time to absorb that moisture "on its way down"
(an inch of water will penetrate soil to a depth of 10 inches).

You don't want the roots to sit in "pooled" water (it leads to
"root rot"). Also, you want the water to end up *below* the
roots so you can flush the salts down below their level
(e.g., we water the citrus by quickly filling the earthen "basin"
that surrounds the tree with water to a 3" depth. Let it drain.
Then repeat -- twice more.) It appears to make a big difference
in the health of the trees and quality of the fruit. Neighbors
(same microclimate) who water regularly don't have anywhere near
the yield (nor sweetness) that we get.

 

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

On 8/15/2013 1:13 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg

Is that modular, or does it have spade lugs?

Modular on both ends (there were some products that had a funky
flat & wide connector on the handset end)

I may still have a hundred or so, if you don't need 25'.

Gack! *Green*? (I've probably got a hundred black, white, beige,
etc. but no *green*) I *don't* want 25'. I want a SHORT cord
(i.e., so that *coiled* it is perhaps 2 ft long?). Phone is
mounted about 3 ft above the "floor" so I want the cord to
"remain dangling" at all times instead of curling up on the
floor...

 

[Joerg]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Jeff,

On 8/15/2013 11:13 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 10:35:39 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I haven't found an FXS/FXO device that I'm happy with,
yet, and not sure I want to go down the "certification road" :
One of the big issues is being able to fall back to an all-copper
connection between *a* handset and the CO -- for those cases when
power fails (UPS exhausted) or something else breaks. I want a
regular WE phone with a mechanical ringer (distinctive, nowadays)
to keep me "connected" and *aware* of the outage.

Ummm... I think it's called a relay. Connect the solenoid to
something that monitors AC power, such as a common wall wart. The
contacts switch the POTS phone from the ATA when energized, to the
POTS line when the power drops.

Too trivial a control algorithm. You need to be able to "drop"
(in your example) the relay even when power is available (if
you sense something else has compromised the internal phone service).
Also, consuming electricity 24/7 to protect against something that
isn't *expected* to happen is wasteful. Smarter to use a latching
relay with a power reserve that you can "pulse" the latch/release
coil as needed.

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg

Make sure your phone company will support pulse dial for the foreseeable
future.

Phone has to reside *in* a closet (I don't want to "see"
any phones in the house!) and only accessed in times of
service outages, etc.

In order to keep in sync with your level of automation provide a little
slot in the wall, with a big fat electrolytic down in there somewhere.
Power goes (or you push some button) ... *THWOCK* ... a flap falls down
.... phssssssssst .. click ... phone automagically glides out of wall and
locks into emergency position.

Our utilities are buried, here -- for the most part. Which tends to
keep the "up" more (except CATV which is barely 6 inches below
grade).

We just had Comcast business class service installed in our office
building. They had to run the coax across the roadway. The service
was highly reliable for exactly one week, when the city decided to
replace a sewer line, and dug up the Comcast cable.

Here, runs across the street are less than 2 inches into
the asphalt! E.g., it is not uncommon to come across an
"exposed" cable -- esp along the sides of the roadway,
away from the crown (more tire wear).

In this block, two such lines were recently reburied.
I suspect we'll be seeing them, again, sometime after
the winter rains...

The actual cable *feed* is barely down a foot along the
side of the roadway. It's been patched *twice* in front
of our house in the years we've lived here. No idea
how often it has failed elsewhere in the neighborhood.

Seeing individual feeds to residences ON TOP of the soil
(for months or years -- permanent tempporary fix!) is
not uncommon. And you want to rely on this for *what*??

That's what has kept me from the much faster cable TV Internet. The
previous owners had cable TV and the just plopped the cable into the
landscape. Zero inch burying depth. Here and there one can see tooth
marks from who knows which critter.

DSL is hopelessly behind in technology out here. 1.2Mbit/sec down and
256k up.

OTOH, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition about
planting trees "wherever". I imagine root growth has probably been
responsible for several cable outages and wonder how long it will
be before a buried telephone trunk (hundreds of pairs) falls
victim?

I live in earthquake country. I'm visualizing thousands of wire
breaks after the next earthquake.

Uncle used to run a CO. Three memorable things from a private
tour he gave me as a kid:
- the room in the basement where *all* the lines come in
(think sewer pipe full of copper wires!)
- the room upstairs where all these individual pairs are
fanned out for access/interconnect
- the little jet engine in the shed out back that ran the
backup generator

There wasn't the usual carton of contact spray cans in a corner?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

Don Y wrote:

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 1:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
Don Y wrote:
[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

What other color would you want?

In this case, green (see URL in my reply to Jeff). Not my ideal
choice of color. Rather, dictated by the type of phone that I
wanted and what I had available in my "telephone stash".

Just get a beige phone?

Hard finding a trimline *wall* phone with a mechanical ringer.

Why a mechanical ringer?

And, the integrated "dual stud" mounting. Ideally, WE and not
some crap clone. (i.e., do I spend my time finding a phone
or a coiled cord? :> )

Here's several of them:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Uniden-1100BK-Slimline-Corded-Phone-Black/21805373

But if it has to be Western Electric (probably made in China these days
anyhow), dual-stud (whatever that is), green and with mechanical ringer
then I guess it'll be the yard sale tour. Or thrift stores.

In Germany I had a green phone on my fax line. It came with black cords
which looked good. Otherwise SWMBO would have said something.

Currently has a long (25'?) green cord. But, I want a *short* cord
as it hangs on the wall, reasonably close to the ground (so I don't
want the excess coiled cord spooling on the ground beneath it).

It's out of sight so I've replaced the long cord with a black
short cord (more in line with the cords you would find on a
500 series desk set). But, it will bug me that it's not
"right"... :-/

Man, you are picky

For me it's important to be able to continue GoToMeeting or
similar if
the power goes. Then I just dial in via landline.

I'm far more concerned about getting EMS when/if I *need* it
("seconds count").

Yes, that's the other advantage. People ditching their landlines
usually
don't think about all this. It doesn't have to be the ambulance, it
could be something more simple, like getting the advice nurse on the
phone after a spider bite. If all you have left is the cell phone and
the tower already ran out of juice this can become harrowing.

Or, your (cell) *battery* dies while you're in mid sentence!! (oops!)

At least you can charge it from the car battery.

Sure! As long as the spider's venom isn't fast acting! :

A friend was bitten by a recluse. That was no fun at all, it can start
rotting your flesh away.

[...]

[When I planted the first orange tree, I initially dug a 4'x4'x4'
hole. (I was told, "imagine you are carving a flower pot out of
the soil... how big a pot do you think a *tree* needs?") You could
fill this hole with water and it would still be there *days* later!
I.e., "it's not deep enough -- keep digging until you break through
the clay layer..."]

However, then you lose a lot of water because it gets slurped into the
lower layers where it does no good in watering plants.

For water to percolate through 4 ft of soil, the tree has had
a good deal of time to absorb that moisture "on its way down"
(an inch of water will penetrate soil to a depth of 10 inches).

You don't want the roots to sit in "pooled" water (it leads to
"root rot"). Also, you want the water to end up *below* the
roots so you can flush the salts down below their level
(e.g., we water the citrus by quickly filling the earthen "basin"
that surrounds the tree with water to a 3" depth. Let it drain.
Then repeat -- twice more.) It appears to make a big difference
in the health of the trees and quality of the fruit. Neighbors
(same microclimate) who water regularly don't have anywhere near
the yield (nor sweetness) that we get.

Hmm, maybe that's why some trees here just don't want to catch. We have
bedrock very few feet below, some of it sticks out the surface. No
amount of TLC and fertilizing helps.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 1:38 PM, Joerg wrote:

Don Y wrote:

[Actually, I've been looking for a new coiled cord for the WE phone
I've chosen as this "backup" but they only sell "vanilla" colors
for coiled cords, nowadays -- white, black, beige]

Model 500, 1500, or 2500 phone? I vaguely recall some vendor selling
replacement cords in assorted colors. I just tried "red telephone
coil cord" on eBay search with lots of hits including "vintage" WE
cords (for $12 to $25/ea ouch).

http://www.ericofon.com/catalog/classic3/images/trimline/wall/trw_green.jpg

Make sure your phone company will support pulse dial for the foreseeable
future.

So far, every place I have lived has been backward compatible in
that regard. E.g., I have an old handset from the early 20th
century (one of those HEAVY black *cast* phones) that still
works (I've been sorely tempted to put a little MCU inside it
to count dial pulses and generate touch tones -- just for the
head games it would play with users! I.e., you can understand
a pushbutton phone being able to generate DTMF or pulse. But,
having a *dial* phone generating DTMF? WTF???)

[I think pulse will work on noisier line conditions than DTMF.
Many years ago, we were having terrible phone service. Esp
with the dialup modems! (I *did* say "many years ago"!) A
tech came out to troubleshoot the line one day -- big orange?
box that monitors the condition of the line. He was just getting
ready to walk off with a shrug of his shoulders: "I don't see
anything wrong..." when the noise level shot through the roof.
I.e., you could barely hear *voice* on the line! I suspect I
would have still been able to dial out in those conditions
with the dial pulse phone! (tech ended up switching us to a
different pair and marking the old pair as out of service)]

Phone has to reside *in* a closet (I don't want to "see"
any phones in the house!) and only accessed in times of
service outages, etc.

In order to keep in sync with your level of automation provide a little
slot in the wall, with a big fat electrolytic down in there somewhere.
Power goes (or you push some button) ... *THWOCK* ... a flap falls down
.... phssssssssst .. click ... phone automagically glides out of wall and
locks into emergency position.

That would be cool if I could put it someplace "visible" (so it's
presence would tell me "something is wrong"). But, would require
a lot of work to make it "look good" in each scenario (retracted
and deployed) -- consider SWMBO. Not sure I would want to tackle
that (I have tried really hard to remove everything techy from the
walls, rooms, etc. Even removing the texture from the walls! :-/ )

I've been looking for a motorized projection screen that I could
recess into the ceiling in front of the bookshelves in the front
hallway. That would allow me to get rid of the TV in the living
room, too!

The actual cable *feed* is barely down a foot along the
side of the roadway. It's been patched *twice* in front
of our house in the years we've lived here. No idea
how often it has failed elsewhere in the neighborhood.

Seeing individual feeds to residences ON TOP of the soil
(for months or years -- permanent tempporary fix!) is
not uncommon. And you want to rely on this for *what*??

That's what has kept me from the much faster cable TV Internet. The
previous owners had cable TV and the just plopped the cable into the
landscape. Zero inch burying depth. Here and there one can see tooth
marks from who knows which critter.

Someone in the neighborhood is *always* complaining of an outage.
I don't know if this is a consequence of damage to the (shallow)
cables, faulty insulation/water penetration, etc.

And, they all have horror stories about trying to *contact*
the cable company for service (and, having to wait around
all day for someone to show up: "We'll have a guy there
between 8 and 5..." "Gee! Thanks! I was afraid he might
show up AFTER BEDTIME!!!")

DSL is hopelessly behind in technology out here. 1.2Mbit/sec down and
256k up.

We can easily get 12Mb service. I just don't like TPC (arrogant
bastards).

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

On 8/15/2013 2:00 PM, Joerg wrote:

In this case, green (see URL in my reply to Jeff). Not my ideal
choice of color. Rather, dictated by the type of phone that I
wanted and what I had available in my "telephone stash".

Just get a beige phone?

Hard finding a trimline *wall* phone with a mechanical ringer.

Why a mechanical ringer?

You will *notice* a mechanical ringer. "What the hell is that noise?"
Not "yet another chirping cricket".

And, the integrated "dual stud" mounting. Ideally, WE and not
some crap clone. (i.e., do I spend my time finding a phone
or a coiled cord? :> )

Here's several of them:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Uniden-1100BK-Slimline-Corded-Phone-Black/21805373

But if it has to be Western Electric (probably made in China these days
anyhow), dual-stud (whatever that is), green and with mechanical ringer
then I guess it'll be the yard sale tour. Or thrift stores.

Thrift stores are the route I've been taking. You can find lots
of cheap/crappy phones but few of the original WE units seem to
have survived (or, maybe folks just hold onto them?).

"Trimline" and "Princess" phones are relatively common. But, the
wall mounted variety seem harder to come by. I wouldn't trust
a traditional trimline mounted on a wall to retain the handset
(esp if you can't visually verify its placement "often")

Currently has a long (25'?) green cord. But, I want a *short* cord
as it hangs on the wall, reasonably close to the ground (so I don't
want the excess coiled cord spooling on the ground beneath it).

It's out of sight so I've replaced the long cord with a black
short cord (more in line with the cords you would find on a
500 series desk set). But, it will bug me that it's not
"right"... :-/

Man, you are picky

Yeah, I also want both my shoes to be the same size! :>

Or, your (cell) *battery* dies while you're in mid sentence!! (oops!)

At least you can charge it from the car battery.

Sure! As long as the spider's venom isn't fast acting! :

A friend was bitten by a recluse. That was no fun at all, it can start
rotting your flesh away.

Yup. Lots of critters here that can make you very uncomfortable,
at the very least. My other half is very sensitive to scorpion
stings (e.g., a visit to the ER). I, OTOH, appear not to notice
them until some time later. <shrug>

I refuse to play chicken with the black widows, etc. And rattle
snakes, bob cats, bears, javelina, etc.

For water to percolate through 4 ft of soil, the tree has had
a good deal of time to absorb that moisture "on its way down"
(an inch of water will penetrate soil to a depth of 10 inches).

You don't want the roots to sit in "pooled" water (it leads to
"root rot"). Also, you want the water to end up *below* the
roots so you can flush the salts down below their level
(e.g., we water the citrus by quickly filling the earthen "basin"
that surrounds the tree with water to a 3" depth. Let it drain.
Then repeat -- twice more.) It appears to make a big difference
in the health of the trees and quality of the fruit. Neighbors
(same microclimate) who water regularly don't have anywhere near
the yield (nor sweetness) that we get.

Hmm, maybe that's why some trees here just don't want to catch. We have
bedrock very few feet below, some of it sticks out the surface. No
amount of TLC and fertilizing helps.

We had rose bushes out by the front door. Never did well. I
finally decided to dig them up and plant something else in their
place (had been there from previous owner).

Imagine my thoughts when I discovered a slab of concrete about
12" beneath the soil level! "Sheesh! No wonder the damn things
never thrived!" (Apparently, builder had dumped all his surplus
concrete in that location, then covered it up with dirt...)