Low Cost VOIP Providers

[Robert Baer]

rickman wrote:

With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

Looking at it sideways, i use Comcast with voice; looks and acts like
a Bell wired system - but reality is VOIP.
About $65/mo with lowest tier internet and no nationwide (to keep
costs down); supports E911, might be able to port a number.

 

[Peabody]

Jim Thompson says...

First of May I changed from Centurylink (nee Qwest) to
Ooma. I went Premier, so I'm effectively $12.28/month
(each line, I have two, prepaid rate).

Nice features, including a personalized reject list,
since the Federal DoNotCall is a farce.

Internet down? Automatically forwards to my cellphone.

I made the same choice, switching from an AT&T land line to
the Ooma Telo. You buy the box (currently $119 on Amazon),
then you pay taxes and fees monthly based on your location
($3.71 for me) and $10 per month if you want Premium. But
otherwise it's free local and domestic long distance for as
long as the box lasts. I ported my number over, and have
been quite happy with it over the last six months. They
have E911 too.

To me the personal and community call blocking feature that
comes with Premium is worth every penny. It isn't perfect,
but generally works quite well.

I should say that I use the Telo to drive three wired phones
through my original home phone wiring, and that works fine.
I don't know about the various wireless options they offer.

You do need solid high speed internet for these VOIP devices
to work well. I have Cox Cable. I have my Telo immediately
behind the cablemodem, and then my router plugged into the
Telo. Seems to work fine, but you can also put the Telo
behind the router if your router provides QOS. You need to
give the Telo priority over other traffic.

The voice quality is quite good, at least at my end. Nobody
at the other end has complained.

 

[Joerg]

rickman wrote:

With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:24:16 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

A friend brings her phone with her when she visits and it works ok
through my router and service.

I do much the same thing. I have a Linksys/Sipura SP921 at home, an
SPA 941 in the office, a Linksys PAP2 box for travel, and various
"soft phone" programs to run on the laptops and smartphones. They're
all on the same phone number. If you call my VoIP number, they all
ring. Of course, I can't call OUT on all the phones at the same time,
but since I'm the only one using the phones, it's not a problem.

She has Comcast at home and it works ok
there too except that it drops once a day at about some given time. Her
VPN also drops at the same time. I think she said she got one or two
drops on my system too, but I don't recall for sure.
So I think the connection is ok for VOIP.

Ummm... do the jitter testing anyway. It's easy enough.

Some of my comments on Comcast bandwidth limiting and jitter.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=ba.broadcast/eHzRSfYQGvs/c04RtFDcAq0J>

However, if you have Comcast Xfinity phone service for the home, the
VoIP traffic is on a completely seperate RF channel from the internet
traffic. The internet can be comatose, and the phone service will
still be up. The Arris home internet/phone routers include a built in
battery for backup. For business class, you get two separate boxes
for internet and phone. With this separation of traffic, Comcast
really doesn't care about VoIP traffic on their internet service, when
they're in business to sell it to you separately.

>I just need to find a decent plan.

No, you need to determine if you need a full service provider, with
lots of support, or a cheap provider with an Asterisk box in the
closet.

>What is SIP?

Others have explained SIP quite adequately. If you're going to dive
into the VoIP quagmire, be advised that things are very different on
the telephone side of electronic fence. For example, everything is an
acronym. Every vendor has a different acronym for essentially the
same protocol and service. There are many ways to do simple things,
most of which are incompatible with each other. A good telecom
dictionary will be useful.

I see this listed at the future-nine site, "Free outgoing
SIP calls". But the lowest plan charges per minute. So what is an SIP
call? I looked it up and I don't get why they are free. Are they
computer to computer and don't go through the PSTN network?

Again, others have already explained this. Very simply, if you want
to talk to someone, you can do it directly (SIP to SIP), indirectly
through a gateway to the PSTN, or through a service providers gateway.
Along the way, you'll blunder into firewalls, STUN, STUNT, and TURN
servers, as well as RFC's for everything imaginable. (Aren't acronyms
wonderful)? To make it easy for users, there are also network to
network gateways:
<http://www.sipbroker.com/sipbroker/action/login>
and DNS directory servers.

To make outgoing calls, your SIP phone will need a dial plan. Here's
mine:
(*xx|[3469]11|0|00|[2-9]xxxxxx|1xxx[2-9]xxxxxxS0|[2-9]xx[2-9]xxxxxxS0|xxxxxxxxxxxx.)
Note the general lack of an intuitive structure.

However, little of this is really intended to be saved in the SIP
phone. My various Liksys boxes have NV memory, but no way to backup
or directly load settings into the phone. I would guess my SPA921 has
about 200 boxes to fill in. Defaults? Nope. Instead, you're
expected to have a TFTP server sitting at home or on the internet with
the settings stored. When you connect the phone to an internet
accessible LAN, it logs into the TFTP server, downloads the settings,
and provisions the phone.

Hint: If you don't want to deal with all this, find a vendor that
will do it for you. You may not be able to do tricky things, like my
common ring, but at least you'll be sleeping at night instead of
hacking the SIP phone settings. I suggest trying Callcentric:
<http://www.callcentric.com>
I used to have an account with them before I learned enough about VoIP
to cause problems for the service provider. About $13/month. Note
that call in and call out are separate services.

>Their prices seem good but their site is not very clear.

You're being generous. Their site sucks. The support/faq section is
even worse. Like I mumbled... they're for users that can handle the
technology with minimum support.

Still, if you say they work well I'll consider them. I just wish they
made their plans a bit more clear.

Future-nine has good pricing and fairly good service. I don't care
about the web pile.

Hmmm... tracerout to incoming.future-nine.com shows 100 msec latency
and 15 hops through 4 server farms. Not the best route for VoIP. Also
try sip.future-nine.com and outgoing.future-nine.com. Check it from
your location to make sure it will work. This might also help:
<http://code.google.com/p/siphon/wiki/SIPSettings>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:18:31 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

SIP has a wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol

This doesn't tell me anything that I need to know to understand the
usage of "SIP call" in the context it was used.

SIP is a protocol for making a connection (dialing), and passing VoIP
traffic. More specifically, it's a collection of protocols defined by
numerous RFC's that are needed for VoIP to function. The alternatives
are H.323, Skype, MGCP, etc.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_IP#Protocols>
In this case, all SIP does is define a common protocol needed for you
to talk on a VoIP service providers system.

>Great, all I need now is to understand what is meant by "SIP calls".

A VoIP call that uses the SIP protocol to dial and talk. Lots of
things have to be compatible and supported for SIP to work. The most
important is the CODEC. You'll probably be using G.711u (64Kbits/sec
uncompressed). If you run into a limited bandwidth connection, like
dialup, there are CODECs with compression available.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?


My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.

I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[rickman]

On 8/14/2013 3:53 PM, Don Y wrote:

Hi,

On 8/14/2013 12:18 PM, rickman wrote:
On 8/14/2013 2:01 PM, miso wrote:

SIP has a wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol

This doesn't tell me anything that I need to know to understand the
usage of "SIP call" in the context it was used.

Most modern businesses use SIP and a linux box to act as the PBX. Or use
something like Ringcentral. If we are talking about a home user, I don't
see SIP being all that handy. There are all sorts of phone plans for
home use, or just use a cellphone. For a SOHO, I would say the goal is
to get one phase of AT$T out of your life.

SIP phones? Well, they talk SIP. Hook 'em up to a network and beat your
brain trying to set up Asterik. SIP phones are old hat enough that they
show up in Silicon Valley surplus stores.

Great, all I need now is to understand what is meant by "SIP calls".

SIP is "Yet Another Protocol". One designed to implement the sorts
of features that you would encounter in a "high end PBX" -- but,
operating over IP networks (instead of hard-wired copper to the
PBX!). Contrast this with Skype's protocol...

It lets you initiate calls, receive calls, "transfer" calls, etc.
(calls can be all sorts of multimedia, not just "voice").

Just like having a HTTP-capable browser allows you to view
web pages, a SIP-enabled IP phone lets you participate in
voice comms over IP. E.g., you could have a gopher-enabled
client to access similar types of information "on the 'net"
but it wouldn't be able to access information served in HTTP
format! (similarly, an HTTP-enabled client/browser wouldn't be
able to access gopher services -- if any are still running! :> )

All you need to know is whether or not the handset you are using
to make your calls (or the ATA, etc. acting on your behalf)
supports SIP.

I appreciate your effort, but the issues of the protocol are not what
I'm asking about. The VoIP provider talks about "Free outgoing SIP
calls". I need to know what this means in their context. Oddly enough
I don't see any contact info and their web site is an odd assortment of
pages that are poorly organized. They talk about E911 on one page as
not being up yet because they are in "beta" status, but this is dated
2008. Elsewhere they say they have E911. Elsewhere still they say E911
is not free but go to their "rate" page and all you get is a "call
simulator" which gives you per minute rates for calls between various
locations. No where do they define what they are talking about by SIP
calls.

I'm not sure I can deal with a company that has no phone support, no
email contact, in fact, no contact info at all! WTF???!!!

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 8/14/2013 10:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:18:31 -0400, rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

SIP has a wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Initiation_Protocol

This doesn't tell me anything that I need to know to understand the
usage of "SIP call" in the context it was used.

SIP is a protocol for making a connection (dialing), and passing VoIP
traffic. More specifically, it's a collection of protocols defined by
numerous RFC's that are needed for VoIP to function. The alternatives
are H.323, Skype, MGCP, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_IP#Protocols
In this case, all SIP does is define a common protocol needed for you
to talk on a VoIP service providers system.

Great, all I need now is to understand what is meant by "SIP calls".

A VoIP call that uses the SIP protocol to dial and talk. Lots of
things have to be compatible and supported for SIP to work. The most
important is the CODEC. You'll probably be using G.711u (64Kbits/sec
uncompressed). If you run into a limited bandwidth connection, like
dialup, there are CODECs with compression available.

Somewhere this is going right past everyone. I'm not asking about any
of the technical details of how the VOIP phones work. I'm asking about
what the vendor means when they say "Free outgoing SIP calls". Clearly
the user doesn't need to know anything about call setup and teardown or
what CODEC is being used. It's a phone. You make calls with it. When
the user wants to know if he is being billed for a given call how does
he know if it is a "SIP" call according to the statement on the web
page? Does that mean you are calling another Internet phone and not
going through the PSTN?

All in all I am very unimpressed by the Future Nine web site. I don't
want to become an IT expert at VOIP. I want to buy a phone, sign up for
a plan, have it work and understand what it will cost me. That's all
I'm asking. Is that too much? I thought for some reason that this is a
place where I might find someone who has gone through all the "stuff" of
finding a decent service and save myself a little trouble. I guess
that's one advantage of Ooma, it just works and I don't have to learn
how it all operates.

--

Rick

 

[Don Y]

Hi Rick,

On 8/14/2013 11:38 PM, rickman wrote:

On 8/14/2013 3:53 PM, Don Y wrote:

Great, all I need now is to understand what is meant by "SIP calls".

SIP is "Yet Another Protocol". One designed to implement the sorts
of features that you would encounter in a "high end PBX" -- but,
operating over IP networks (instead of hard-wired copper to the
PBX!). Contrast this with Skype's protocol...

It lets you initiate calls, receive calls, "transfer" calls, etc.
(calls can be all sorts of multimedia, not just "voice").

All you need to know is whether or not the handset you are using
to make your calls (or the ATA, etc. acting on your behalf)
supports SIP.

I appreciate your effort, but the issues of the protocol are not what
I'm asking about. The VoIP provider talks about "Free outgoing SIP
calls". I need to know what this means in their context.

Outgoing calls only require them to give you some (IP) network
bandwidth. They don't have to "give you a (persistent) presence".

You'll either install some software on a PC (that you will keep
running whenever you want to make a call) *or* purchase an ATA
(Analog Telephone Adapter/FXS adapter) to which you can connect
a traditional handset. In either case, you will then have
to configure the device/client to know how to access the SIP
service from the VoIP provider (account name, password, SIP
port, registrar name, etc.)

You can't, for example, fire up a Skype client (on your PC) and
use their service to connect with other skype/PSTN/etc. users.

The big *draw*, of course, is to get you to want other services
besides outgoing voice! E.g., to be able to *receive* calls! :>

If they have a (truly) FREE service, why not try it out and see
what you can and can't do? At the very least, it will give you an
idea of the quality of the service (and support, etc.) that they
offer -- should you opt to head down that road formally!

Oddly enough
I don't see any contact info and their web site is an odd assortment of
pages that are poorly organized.

(sigh) This is all too common. It's seen as a "chore" instead of
an *asset* by many companies. (and, to be fair, maintaining a
web presence *is* tedious -- even if all you are doing is keeping
contact info, services and rates "up to date")

I think a good many web sites are offloaded to "web developers"
with no real ties to the companies they support. "Build us a
web page..." etc. As if they were asking "Build us a parking
garage"

They talk about E911 on one page as
not being up yet because they are in "beta" status, but this is dated
2008. Elsewhere they say they have E911. Elsewhere still they say E911
is not free but go to their "rate" page and all you get is a "call
simulator" which gives you per minute rates for calls between various
locations. No where do they define what they are talking about by SIP
calls.

Cost of admission. They figure you know this *before* looking into
VoIP services :>

I'm not sure I can deal with a company that has no phone support, no
email contact, in fact, no contact info at all! WTF???!!!

<grin> SWMBO has a prepaid cell phone for "emergency use". She
grumbles about how *impossible* it is to talk to someone about
the service, rates, billing information, etc.

"Many companies *despise* their customers!" :-/

 

[rickman]

On 8/14/2013 4:12 PM, David Platt wrote:

In article<kugeh2$iqf$1@dont-email.me>, rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

What is SIP? I see this listed at the future-nine site, "Free outgoing
SIP calls". But the lowest plan charges per minute. So what is an SIP
call? I looked it up and I don't get why they are free. Are they
computer to computer and don't go through the PSTN network?

SIP is "Session Initiation Protocol". It's the commonest way for
setting up and managing a VoIP call.

SIP uses a generalized "localpart@domainname" addressing system. If
you're using a VoIP provider to reach phones on the PSTN, you would
typically being contacting your VoIP provider and sending something
like "12135551212@sip.myprovider.com" as the recipient ID. Your
provider would route the call to a PSTN switching interchange "near"
this 213-555-xxxx exchange, and then terminate the call onto the PSTN.

Obviously there is something going on that I don't understand. I am
picturing a small box, about the size of a router, which connects
between my phone and an Ethernet port on a router. I pick up the phone,
dial a number and the person at the other end says, "Hello", the call
has been connected. Where exactly would I enter such an ID?

This is the setup a friend has and pays $10 a month on top of her cell
phone bill. She gets unlimited calls and long distance to the best of
my knowledge. I'm looking for something like that. $10 a month would
be great.

You can also use SIP to make calls which go nowhere near the PSTN.
If, for example, you were to make a call addressed to
"dave@my.home.domain.com" (or whatever my Asterisk server's hostname
is) the call would end up being routed to my Asterisk server over the
Internet, and then to one of my SIP softphones (e.g. here at work),
and would never go over the PSTN.

You can make such "direct" SIP calls without having a VoIP provider at
all, in a strictly peer-to-peer fashion... you just need to know the
right address. Such calls can be made "for free" (i.e. they're just
data on your broadband connection).

Ok, this is what I'm thinking the Future Nine web site means by "SIP
calls", but who knows? Their site is obtuse and incomplete..., VERY
incomplete.

Their prices seem good but their site is not very clear. For example
most plans charge a monthly fee. The "Pay as you go" plan has no
monthly fee and charges per minute. But they charge monthly for a US
phone number... what? Doesn't having a phone imply that you have a
number? How is that different from charging a monthly fee?

Nope. It's entirely possible for you to *make* calls over SIP, which
are then terminated to the PSTN, without having a DID (phone number)
to which calls can be made.

I don't get what you mean. What is "terminated to the PSTN"? You mean
the call goes to a phone on the PSTN, otherwise known as a land line?
How do you do that without a phone number, especially if you are using a
phone? Oh, you mean "I" don't have to have a phone number for outgoing
calls. Ok, I hadn't considered that since I am looking to replace a
standard phone with calls going both ways.

Ok, so that is still a bit unclear. Their pay as you go plan is "free"
with a $5/month fee for the phone number while their "Bare Essentials"
plan is just $7 a month but with a "free" phone number. So they are
only charging $2 a month for 250 minutes of outgoing calls. An odd way
of doing it, but I suppose there might be pay as you go customers who
don't need a phone number (commercial service) while the other plans
exclude commercial service.

The same is true in reverse. You can sign up for a DID, and for
inbound-call service (i.e. PSTN -> DID -> SIP -> your device), without
having the authority to make any *outbound* calls at all.

You'll pay monthly (usually) for having an inbound DID number, for
E911 service, and for a directory listing. You may pay a flat fee per
month, or per-minute, or both, for actual calls made and/or received.

This separation of "inbound call" and "outbound call" service is a bit
different than landline-phone users are used to thinking of. It's a
bit more complex but can have benefits.

Depending on rates and costs, you may want to have DID inbound
service from one company, and outbound-call service from one or more
other companies (better rates and coverage). One down-side to doing
this, is that you usually won't be able to persuade your "outbound
call" provider to place your "inbound DID" phone number in the
outbound calls' CallerID headers. If I call somebody using my Future
Nine account (outbound-only) the receipient sees a generic number
located somewhere in the midwest, not any of my own numbers.

Yes, it is *very* complex until someone explains it clearly. I think
this is the best I have seen to date. The part that bugs me about
Future Nine is that the web site sucks so bad and it looks like I would
be left on my own, no phone support, no email, no contact at all. I
don't want any headaches.

They talk about taking your phone unit with you on trips. Is it a
simple matter to change the E911 setup when you go other places? I
would likely be taking it between two locations and would want a *very*
simple way to adjust the E911 setup on hooking it up. At one location
it would be the most reliable means of reaching emergency services, so I
want that to work.

--

Rick

 

[Don Y]

Hi Rick,

On 8/15/2013 12:05 AM, rickman wrote:

On 8/14/2013 10:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Great, all I need now is to understand what is meant by "SIP calls".

A VoIP call that uses the SIP protocol to dial and talk. Lots of
things have to be compatible and supported for SIP to work. The most
important is the CODEC. You'll probably be using G.711u (64Kbits/sec
uncompressed). If you run into a limited bandwidth connection, like
dialup, there are CODECs with compression available.

Somewhere this is going right past everyone. I'm not asking about any
of the technical details of how the VOIP phones work. I'm asking about
what the vendor means when they say "Free outgoing SIP calls". Clearly
the user doesn't need to know anything about call setup and teardown or
what CODEC is being used. It's a phone. You make calls with it. When

Ah, there's the flaw in your assumption!

You *do* need to know these things! Else your SIP phone won't
talk to their SIP service!! :> You want to just pick up a phone
and be able to dial? There's a system for that: it's called POTS!

the user wants to know if he is being billed for a given call how does
he know if it is a "SIP" call according to the statement on the web
page? Does that mean you are calling another Internet phone and not
going through the PSTN?

You can call "whatever can be reached". If they only allow SIP URI's,
then your destination will be expressed in a form <foo>@<bar>.
E.g., a google voice phone number is <number>@sip.voice.google.com
(similar to an FTP, HTTP, HTTPS, etc. URI)

If they tell you how to configure an ATA for use with their service,
then you can pretty much expect to be able to just *dial* a PSTN
number (though the quality of the connection may vary greatly
over the course of the day or even the course of the *call*!)

Some providers will not have bridges to the PSTN. So, if your
destination can't be reached *entirely* over IP, you're SOL.
Most full featured providers have provisions to get you back
out to the PSTN. (People aren't patient enough to deal with the
"we're sorry, the party you are calling is not on our network"
crap, anymore.)

Try it and see. There are PC based SIP clients that should
allow you to use your PC as a "telephone" (even if you have
to resort to using a microphone and speakers instead of
a real handset)

All in all I am very unimpressed by the Future Nine web site. I don't
want to become an IT expert at VOIP. I want to buy a phone, sign up for
a plan, have it work and understand what it will cost me. That's all
I'm asking. Is that too much? I thought for some reason that this is a
place where I might find someone who has gone through all the "stuff" of
finding a decent service and save myself a little trouble. I guess
that's one advantage of Ooma, it just works and I don't have to learn
how it all operates.

You're paying them to sell you a product that is preconfigured
to talk to *their* servers! (can you later reconfigure it to
use someone *else's* servers?? dunno...)

 

[rickman]

On 8/14/2013 10:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:24:16 -0400, rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

A friend brings her phone with her when she visits and it works ok
through my router and service.

I do much the same thing. I have a Linksys/Sipura SP921 at home, an
SPA 941 in the office, a Linksys PAP2 box for travel, and various
"soft phone" programs to run on the laptops and smartphones. They're
all on the same phone number. If you call my VoIP number, they all
ring. Of course, I can't call OUT on all the phones at the same time,
but since I'm the only one using the phones, it's not a problem.

I hadn't considered having multiple units at the different locations.
That could work for me. One unit set up all the time at one location
and a second unit for traveling. Yes, that could work great. Can you
even call yourself from one location to another or would it just ring
busy? lol

She has Comcast at home and it works ok
there too except that it drops once a day at about some given time. Her
VPN also drops at the same time. I think she said she got one or two
drops on my system too, but I don't recall for sure.
So I think the connection is ok for VOIP.

Ummm... do the jitter testing anyway. It's easy enough.

Some of my comments on Comcast bandwidth limiting and jitter.
https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=ba.broadcast/eHzRSfYQGvs/c04RtFDcAq0J

However, if you have Comcast Xfinity phone service for the home, the
VoIP traffic is on a completely seperate RF channel from the internet
traffic. The internet can be comatose, and the phone service will
still be up. The Arris home internet/phone routers include a built in
battery for backup. For business class, you get two separate boxes
for internet and phone. With this separation of traffic, Comcast
really doesn't care about VoIP traffic on their internet service, when
they're in business to sell it to you separately.

My service is through a very small outfit (one guy I believe) off a
private tower using a 900 MHz radio link. I"m in the center of nowhere
basically and this is much better than satellite. I haven't found out
who he deals with for his connections. I'd love to get involved with
him. He seems to know how to make it all work, but he is no businessman
and especially no salesperson. In fact just the opposite, he drives
business away.

I just need to find a decent plan.

No, you need to determine if you need a full service provider, with
lots of support, or a cheap provider with an Asterisk box in the
closet.

What is SIP?

Others have explained SIP quite adequately.

No, they have explained SIP as if I were building a system. I'm not,
I'm a user... at least for now.

If you're going to dive
into the VoIP quagmire, be advised that things are very different on
the telephone side of electronic fence. For example, everything is an
acronym. Every vendor has a different acronym for essentially the
same protocol and service. There are many ways to do simple things,
most of which are incompatible with each other. A good telecom
dictionary will be useful.

I don't need a dictionary, I need a supplier that knows how to talk to
*people*.

I see this listed at the future-nine site, "Free outgoing
SIP calls". But the lowest plan charges per minute. So what is an SIP
call? I looked it up and I don't get why they are free. Are they
computer to computer and don't go through the PSTN network?

Again, others have already explained this.

No, that's the problem, they haven't, at least until I read one of
David's posts.

Very simply, if you want
to talk to someone, you can do it directly (SIP to SIP),

Again, this has no meaning to me since it doesn't fit the image in my
mind. You seem to have a different picture of making phone calls. I'm
guessing you are thinking in terms of some application on a PC or
something similar. I'm thinking of a phone that connects to a little
box that connects to the Internet.

indirectly
through a gateway to the PSTN, or through a service providers gateway.

Again, none of that means anything useful to me as a customer. If I
have to do anything more than dial a phone number I don't want it.

Along the way, you'll blunder into firewalls, STUN, STUNT, and TURN
servers, as well as RFC's for everything imaginable. (Aren't acronyms
wonderful)? To make it easy for users, there are also network to
network gateways:
http://www.sipbroker.com/sipbroker/action/login
and DNS directory servers.

Isn't it the job of the provider to figure all that out? Or are you
saying these are potential problems my Internet access provider might
create?

To make outgoing calls, your SIP phone will need a dial plan. Here's
mine:
(*xx|[3469]11|0|00|[2-9]xxxxxx|1xxx[2-9]xxxxxxS0|[2-9]xx[2-9]xxxxxxS0|xxxxxxxxxxxx.)
Note the general lack of an intuitive structure.

LOL! How do you punch the special chars into your phone?

However, little of this is really intended to be saved in the SIP
phone. My various Liksys boxes have NV memory, but no way to backup
or directly load settings into the phone. I would guess my SPA921 has
about 200 boxes to fill in. Defaults? Nope. Instead, you're
expected to have a TFTP server sitting at home or on the internet with
the settings stored. When you connect the phone to an internet
accessible LAN, it logs into the TFTP server, downloads the settings,
and provisions the phone.

Hint: If you don't want to deal with all this, find a vendor that
will do it for you.

Ok, so I assume this is *not* Future Nine?

You may not be able to do tricky things, like my
common ring, but at least you'll be sleeping at night instead of
hacking the SIP phone settings. I suggest trying Callcentric:
http://www.callcentric.com
I used to have an account with them before I learned enough about VoIP
to cause problems for the service provider. About $13/month. Note
that call in and call out are separate services.

Their prices seem good but their site is not very clear.

You're being generous. Their site sucks. The support/faq section is
even worse. Like I mumbled... they're for users that can handle the
technology with minimum support.

Still, if you say they work well I'll consider them. I just wish they
made their plans a bit more clear.

Future-nine has good pricing and fairly good service. I don't care
about the web pile.

Hmmm... tracerout to incoming.future-nine.com shows 100 msec latency
and 15 hops through 4 server farms. Not the best route for VoIP. Also
try sip.future-nine.com and outgoing.future-nine.com. Check it from
your location to make sure it will work. This might also help:
http://code.google.com/p/siphon/wiki/SIPSettings

Ok, I think this is not the company for me. I want a phone, not a
gadget that I'll be constantly hacking with to keep it working.

--

Rick

 

[Don Y]

Hi Rick,

On 8/15/2013 12:21 AM, rickman wrote:

On 8/14/2013 4:12 PM, David Platt wrote:
In article<kugeh2$iqf$1@dont-email.me>, rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

What is SIP? I see this listed at the future-nine site, "Free outgoing
SIP calls". But the lowest plan charges per minute. So what is an SIP
call? I looked it up and I don't get why they are free. Are they
computer to computer and don't go through the PSTN network?

SIP is "Session Initiation Protocol". It's the commonest way for
setting up and managing a VoIP call.

SIP uses a generalized "localpart@domainname" addressing system. If
you're using a VoIP provider to reach phones on the PSTN, you would
typically being contacting your VoIP provider and sending something
like "12135551212@sip.myprovider.com" as the recipient ID. Your
provider would route the call to a PSTN switching interchange "near"
this 213-555-xxxx exchange, and then terminate the call onto the PSTN.

Obviously there is something going on that I don't understand. I am
picturing a small box, about the size of a router, which connects
between my phone and an Ethernet port on a router. I pick up the phone,
dial a number and the person at the other end says, "Hello", the call
has been connected. Where exactly would I enter such an ID?

You don't. You are limited to telephone numbers which that little
box ("ATA") will translate into a SIP URI of the form +<number>@telnum
(or, if it is a dedicated/proprietary device, it may convert it to
a special URI intended for use explicitly by it's own proxy server)

This is the setup a friend has and pays $10 a month on top of her cell
phone bill. She gets unlimited calls and long distance to the best of
my knowledge. I'm looking for something like that. $10 a month would
be great.

You can also use SIP to make calls which go nowhere near the PSTN.
If, for example, you were to make a call addressed to
"dave@my.home.domain.com" (or whatever my Asterisk server's hostname
is) the call would end up being routed to my Asterisk server over the
Internet, and then to one of my SIP softphones (e.g. here at work),
and would never go over the PSTN.

You can make such "direct" SIP calls without having a VoIP provider at
all, in a strictly peer-to-peer fashion... you just need to know the
right address. Such calls can be made "for free" (i.e. they're just
data on your broadband connection).

Ok, this is what I'm thinking the Future Nine web site means by "SIP
calls", but who knows? Their site is obtuse and incomplete..., VERY
incomplete.

Their prices seem good but their site is not very clear. For example
most plans charge a monthly fee. The "Pay as you go" plan has no
monthly fee and charges per minute. But they charge monthly for a US
phone number... what? Doesn't having a phone imply that you have a
number? How is that different from charging a monthly fee?

Nope. It's entirely possible for you to *make* calls over SIP, which
are then terminated to the PSTN, without having a DID (phone number)
to which calls can be made.

I don't get what you mean. What is "terminated to the PSTN"? You mean
the call goes to a phone on the PSTN, otherwise known as a land line?

Yes. "Somewhere", there is a bridge located *near* (whatever that
means) the destination that you are trying to reach (ideally, so
it's a "local call" from that bridge to your destination). The
SIP protocol (messages) eventually results in that bridge *dialing*
a PSTN "phone number" on your behalf. And, connecting you to the
person who picks up the receiver! (it does this using regular SIP
messages to track the progress of the call/connection/disconnection)

How do you do that without a phone number, especially if you are using a
phone? Oh, you mean "I" don't have to have a phone number for outgoing
calls.

Exactly. You can't *receive* calls! You exist in IP-land and not
in PSTN-land ("But, for a small monthly fee, we will register your
PSTN phone number (or, SIP URI) so that you, too, can receive calls!")

Ok, I hadn't considered that since I am looking to replace a
standard phone with calls going both ways.

Ok, so that is still a bit unclear. Their pay as you go plan is "free"
with a $5/month fee for the phone number while their "Bare Essentials"
plan is just $7 a month but with a "free" phone number. So they are
only charging $2 a month for 250 minutes of outgoing calls. An odd way
of doing it, but I suppose there might be pay as you go customers who
don't need a phone number (commercial service) while the other plans
exclude commercial service.

They are letting you try to find the right price/service point based
on your expected needs.

Also note the fine print regarding the QoS quarantees that they
may (or, likely, may NOT) apply to each of these services! E.g.,
you might get an inexpensive (price) service only to discover it
is a *cheap* (quality) service -- high latency, one-way audio,
dropped connections, etc.

The same is true in reverse. You can sign up for a DID, and for
inbound-call service (i.e. PSTN -> DID -> SIP -> your device), without
having the authority to make any *outbound* calls at all.

You'll pay monthly (usually) for having an inbound DID number, for
E911 service, and for a directory listing. You may pay a flat fee per
month, or per-minute, or both, for actual calls made and/or received.

This separation of "inbound call" and "outbound call" service is a bit
different than landline-phone users are used to thinking of. It's a
bit more complex but can have benefits.

It's akin to the days of WATS lines where you literally had to
*pick* how you wanted to make each particular call to get the best
value.

Or, nowadays, having a "calling card" to handle certain long distance
calls while other LD calls may be handled by your regular carrier
(and "local" calls handled differently).

Depending on rates and costs, you may want to have DID inbound
service from one company, and outbound-call service from one or more
other companies (better rates and coverage). One down-side to doing
this, is that you usually won't be able to persuade your "outbound
call" provider to place your "inbound DID" phone number in the
outbound calls' CallerID headers. If I call somebody using my Future
Nine account (outbound-only) the receipient sees a generic number
located somewhere in the midwest, not any of my own numbers.

Yes, it is *very* complex until someone explains it clearly. I think
this is the best I have seen to date. The part that bugs me about
Future Nine is that the web site sucks so bad and it looks like I would
be left on my own, no phone support, no email, no contact at all. I
don't want any headaches.

They talk about taking your phone unit with you on trips. Is it a
simple matter to change the E911 setup when you go other places? I

E911 is how emergency services are notified of "where to find your
body". :> The phone also has to register itself (?) in its
new location for inward dialing (i.e., so your provider knows how
to send IP packets *to* your phone regardless of what your current
IP address happens to be)

would likely be taking it between two locations and would want a *very*
simple way to adjust the E911 setup on hooking it up. At one location
it would be the most reliable means of reaching emergency services, so I
want that to work.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?


My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.

I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.

The county switched to VOIP for all their phone lines around a decade
ago. Their IT people manage and maintain it, along with all their
servers, routers, switches and every computer used by the county. Their
phone service is excellent.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.

I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.

We do lay caregiving as one of our volunteer activities. Some of that
happens in person, some over long distance phone. So we have lined up
discount options because those sessions can be 1-1/2h regularly. One
person has signed up for a "deal" where the landline was dropped. Since
that time the discount carriers can no longer dial into that number.

Another example is at a large enterprise. They have a 1-866 service for
phone conferencing. Probably also some supposedly "good deal". 1-866
should be toll-free, right? Well, one fine day I got a message
"Deedle-deedle-dee ... We are sorry, this number requires a toll
connection".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[RobertMacy]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:05:22 -0700, miso <miso@sushi.com> wrote:

And a joke. I stopped reporting the calls because it does no good. Now I
look at the CID and, if it looks unfamiliar, I simply answer and hang up
immediately to stop the annoying ringing.


All those annoying call hide behind a CLEC. But so do a lot of legit
businesses. I wouldn't hang up on them immediately unless you are
forcing them to go to voicemail. Rachel from Credit Card Services
doesn't like voicemail.

My wife suspects Rachel...


Some intrepid soul on the Win98 group [I think 98Guy] made all his
answering machines answer with that irritating tone that your phone is no
longer an active telephone line, and then would transfer on through to
ring you.

Friends knew to wait.

Telemarketers took the number off their lists.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:01:38 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.

I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.


We do lay caregiving as one of our volunteer activities. Some of that
happens in person, some over long distance phone. So we have lined up
discount options because those sessions can be 1-1/2h regularly. One
person has signed up for a "deal" where the landline was dropped. Since
that time the discount carriers can no longer dial into that number.

Another example is at a large enterprise. They have a 1-866 service for
phone conferencing. Probably also some supposedly "good deal". 1-866
should be toll-free, right? Well, one fine day I got a message
"Deedle-deedle-dee ... We are sorry, this number requires a toll
connection".

Ooma? Or are you just whistling negatives?

The only issues I've heard of are recalcitrant land-line companies
refusing the porting, or uncooperative and slo-o-o-ow.

You're in Californica... need I say more ?>:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 03:05:12 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm asking about
what the vendor means when they say "Free outgoing SIP calls".

<http://www.future-nine.com/plans-extended.html>
Badly worded. It means that there are no additional charges up to the
number of outgoing minutes specified in the plan. Exactly like a cell
phone plan. For "Bare Essentials", that's 250 mins/month. For
"America Free", it's 2000 min/month.

Clearly
the user doesn't need to know anything about call setup and teardown or
what CODEC is being used. It's a phone. You make calls with it.

Sorry, but those days are long gone. Today, the phones are full of
complex features that will take some expertise to use. For example, I
have my Future-Nine voicemail messages delivered by email as a WAV
file. I've also taken the time to try every feature available to see
how it really works.

When
the user wants to know if he is being billed for a given call how does
he know if it is a "SIP" call according to the statement on the web
page?

If the user has a Future-Nine account, he can login and review his
call and billing history. The charges per call are itemized. Of
course, that's after making the call, so the user needs to know how
calls are billed. Since *ALL* calls are SIP calls, that description
doesn't help. A better way is that all calls made through the service
providers SIP to PSTN gateway are billed with the first 250 or 2000
minutes pre-paid depending on the plan. If you go over, you go
online, add money to the account, and continue. No penalties for
going over.

For international calls, additional charges are involved, depending on
which route is used:
<http://www.future-nine.com/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=5&id=38&artlang=en>
For example, when I call Israel, it's an additional $0.0107/min for
the slow route that usually reverts to half duplex, or $0.0154/min for
the premium route.
<http://www.future-nine.com/A2BCustomer_UI/rates.php>

Does that mean you are calling another Internet phone and not
going through the PSTN?

SIP is to VoIP as SMTP is to Email.

When you call another SIP phone, or call through one of the numerous
online gateways, you are NOT going through Future-Nine's system.
There's no way Future-Nine can bill you for the call because the call
is not going through their Asterisk box. All Future-Nine does is
provide the ENUM lookup for the call. Your SIP phone logs into the
Future-Nine Asterisk server (with a login and password that's
different for each phone). That way, they know the IP address of the
phone so that you can move around the internet. Things get a bit
complexicated for ENUM lookups and such, but when it's done, the call
is directed to your phone's:
SIP:device-name@your-ip-addressort-number
That's just a simple DNS lookup and is free. The actual call
connection is made directly between your phone (or computah) and the
destination SIP phone.

However, if the call is made through the Future-Nine SIP to PSTN
gateway, it gets billed. If international, add some more billing.

>All in all I am very unimpressed by the Future Nine web site.

Agreed. Incidentally, I also use several private services run by
friends, which have no web page beyond the account admin page and
offer zero user support. However, I can do things with them that are
difficult with Future-Nine.

Incidentally, when you login to the account, there's a box for sending
email to the admin. I get an answer in less than a day. Most of my
email are requests for changes in service for various customers.

I don't
want to become an IT expert at VOIP.

The alternative is one of the plug-n-play type of services. Ooma,
Callcentric, 8X8, Vonage, etc will provide you with the necessary
equipment and expertise, for a price, of course. I can offer
recommendations based mostly on customer experiences, but I'll need to
know the expected usage pattern.

I want to buy a phone, sign up for
a plan, have it work and understand what it will cost me.

Understanding the cost may be a problem, as different VoIP providers
have different rate structures depending on customer type and use. You
may find the pay-by-minute plan a good way to start because you can
changes easily. If you get a 4-line phone like my SPA941, you can
have 4 different VoIP service providers programmed into the phone
(which will be 4 different phone numbers). Save one for direct
access. If one is down, use another. If one is too expensive, use
the cheaper one.

That's all
I'm asking. Is that too much?

The requirement to understand the cost might be difficult. I still
cannot reliably predict the initial and continuing costs of cable and
satellite TV service. My phone bill is full of odd charges that a
difficult to analyze. VoIP service is little better, unless you opt
for a flat monthly free.

I thought for some reason that this is a
place where I might find someone who has gone through all the "stuff" of
finding a decent service and save myself a little trouble. I guess
that's one advantage of Ooma, it just works and I don't have to learn
how it all operates.

I had a ladyfriend that had that attitude about computers and
automobiles. Her computers were constantly getting infected by
viruses because she didn't want to take the time to understand how
they worked so that she could make an intelligent decision on what to
click. Her new automobile almost blew up when she didn't bother to
change the oil for something like 10,000 miles. "I just want
something that I can drive without becoming a mechanic" was her
mantra. Maybe it will work for you.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:01:38 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.
I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.

We do lay caregiving as one of our volunteer activities. Some of that
happens in person, some over long distance phone. So we have lined up
discount options because those sessions can be 1-1/2h regularly. One
person has signed up for a "deal" where the landline was dropped. Since
that time the discount carriers can no longer dial into that number.

Another example is at a large enterprise. They have a 1-866 service for
phone conferencing. Probably also some supposedly "good deal". 1-866
should be toll-free, right? Well, one fine day I got a message
"Deedle-deedle-dee ... We are sorry, this number requires a toll
connection".

Ooma? Or are you just whistling negatives?

Not Ooma. I was talking about people who went to VoIP deals. I am not
whistling, those are things that really happened.

The only issues I've heard of are recalcitrant land-line companies
refusing the porting, or uncooperative and slo-o-o-ow.

You're in Californica... need I say more ?>:-}

And no, not just in California. One recent case was in Ohio.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:29:33 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:01:38 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:22:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

rickman wrote:
With many things you can find good, low cost sources. But with some
things you have to choose... "good, fast, cheap - pick two" is common.

I've been Googling for VOIP providers and none of them seem to fair very
well unless they are a bit pricey with plans that remind me of cell
phones with limited minutes. There seem to be a few low cost providers
but they tend to get poor reviews on voice quality or dropped calls or
even completing calls. I've even read about one provider that only
requires a modest yearly payment, but makes it so hard to do that some
give up and subscribe all over again.

I don't get it. This is not new technology. Has anyone found a decent
VOIP provider? I'd like to use my existing phone number (seems not all
will let you transfer a number) and port the device with me when I
travel. Ideally it would support E911 and allow me to easily update the
info when I travel.

Otherwise I just need for it to replace my land line and not cost any
more. I'm only paying $15 a month to Verizon for that, and of course I
have to spit each time I write the check... I'm not a fan.

What are you using?

My advice: If you need this for business, don't switch. Aside from
technical issues with VoIP I've seen cases where phone numbers could not
be reached with calling cards anymore after they switched. There is no
free lunch.

The phone system as we know it when any number could reach any other
number no matter what seems to be beginning to unravel.
I've had not a problem with Ooma and number porting... everything went
smoothly, and faster than they predicted.

We do lay caregiving as one of our volunteer activities. Some of that
happens in person, some over long distance phone. So we have lined up
discount options because those sessions can be 1-1/2h regularly. One
person has signed up for a "deal" where the landline was dropped. Since
that time the discount carriers can no longer dial into that number.

Another example is at a large enterprise. They have a 1-866 service for
phone conferencing. Probably also some supposedly "good deal". 1-866
should be toll-free, right? Well, one fine day I got a message
"Deedle-deedle-dee ... We are sorry, this number requires a toll
connection".

Ooma? Or are you just whistling negatives?


Not Ooma. I was talking about people who went to VoIP deals. I am not
whistling, those are things that really happened.


The only issues I've heard of are recalcitrant land-line companies
refusing the porting, or uncooperative and slo-o-o-ow.

You're in Californica... need I say more ?>:-}


And no, not just in California. One recent case was in Ohio.

Going cheap will get you screwed >:-}

Like I said before, not the cheapest, but works great...

First of May I changed from Centurylink (nee Qwest) to Ooma. I went
Premier, so I'm effectively $12.28/month (each line, I have two,
prepaid rate).

Nice features, including a personalized reject list, since the Federal
DoNotCall is a farce.

Internet down? Automatically forwards to my cellphone.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.