Battery charge tests - running a battery to 0 frequently - checking re-charge times...

[nospam]

In article <er4b7hpdsec422dmgdb3994ft1fplp1n1n@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:07:35 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com
wrote:
If the choice is only between a) \"fast charge at high-current to 100%
capacity\" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity\" then
yes, slow charging is better, but that\'s not how modern smart phones, or
modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are charged.

True. Again, we started this discussion with single LiIon cells as
found in smartphones. It would be nice if your could limit the
discussion to this arrangement.

he\'s forever moving the goalposts.

Note that the common dictionary definition of battery is \"consisting
of one or more cells\". It wasn\'t always like that, but since
literally everyone uses battery when they should be using call, the
official definition was mutilated to accommodate an expanded
definition.

yep. language evolves.

 

[nospam]

In article <t53pdq$s0q$1@dont-email.me>, Wade Garrett <Wade@cooler.net>
wrote:

And it warms even more if I also rest it on the sticky pad I sometimes
keep on the car\'s charge pad to prevent the phone from sliding when
turning corners.

slow down!

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 7/5/22 7:26 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 6 May 2022 17:44:09 +0100, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Oops. Wrong app. The one I was using is:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.liuzh.deviceinfo

To add more to that suggestion, personally I install only apps that are GSF
free and that don\'t contain ads and which have high\'ish ratings & installs.

What\'s a GSF? All I could find was Golden State Foods.

GNU Software Foundation perhaps?

 

[John McGaw]

On 5/6/2022 5:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
snip...

Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

It would be nice if when pluging the charger the phone asked whether we
want a fast or a slow charge.

Actually, the \"adaptive charging\" option seems to do that but without
asking. Place the phone on the wireless stand after the phone knows that it
is \"sleepy time\" and it will automatically restrict the charge rate to what
is needed to have 100% at the next alarm time. It has seemed to work fine
for me on my Pixel 6 Pro, anyway. Of course you have to switch the option
on in settings before it will know to do that. I\'m guessing that this will
work with plugged-in charging but I have never really tried and I almost
never used wired charging except when in the car on a long road trip.

--
Noli sinere pessimi nequissimique te tristificare!

 

[sms]

On 5/6/2022 5:39 PM, John McGaw wrote:

On 5/6/2022 5:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
snip...
Interesting to see it born out in practice, but it is a known fact. Fast
charging heats up the battery and heat damages the battery, therefore
fast
charging will reduce the battery life.

It would be nice if when pluging the charger the phone asked whether
we want a fast or a slow charge.



Actually, the \"adaptive charging\" option seems to do that but without
asking. Place the phone on the wireless stand after the phone knows that
it is \"sleepy time\" and it will automatically restrict the charge rate
to what is needed to have 100% at the next alarm time. It has seemed to
work fine for me on my Pixel 6 Pro, anyway. Of course you have to switch
the option on in settings before it will know to do that. I\'m guessing
that this will work with plugged-in charging but I have never really
tried and I almost never used wired charging except when in the car on a
long road trip.

There\'s no reason to manually select slow charge or fast charge on
recent vintage iPhones or Android phones. The phone automatically sets
the charge rate based on the charge level of the battery. There\'s no
down-side to fast charging a battery that has a low amount of charge and
then having the charger reduce the power as the battery level increases.

If someone really wants to charge as slow as possible, with a wired
charger, you can use a data blocker and the charger will be unable to
communicate with the phone and will default to the lowest charge rate,
i.e. <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082WDHS22> or
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T0DW3F8>. For a wireless charger, use one
that plugs into a USB-A power adapter and ensure that you\'re using only
a 2.5 watt or 5 watt power adapter.

 

[nospam]

In article <t54ghq$vhp$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

If someone really wants to charge as slow as possible, with a wired
charger, you can use a data blocker and the charger will be unable to
communicate with the phone and will default to the lowest charge rate,

which will be extremely slow and might even be insufficient to overcome
idle demands of the device because it will be 5V@100ma, or 1/2 watt,
assuming it works at all, since such adapters are non-compliant with
the usb spec.

a better and more practical solution is use a 5w/1a charger, which most
people have.

 

[Andy Burnelli]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

To add more to that suggestion, personally I install only apps that are GSF
free and that don\'t contain ads and which have high\'ish ratings & installs.

What\'s a GSF? All I could find was Golden State Foods.

It\'s worse than that, but just as prevalent in apps you don\'t want it in.
Can you handle detail, perhaps with a bit of confusion involved on my part?

It\'s actually difficult to find a _good_ explanation of GSF for you.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+android+%22google+services+framework>

But I just made these two graphics for you to illustrate the general idea:
<https://i.postimg.cc/0Q4xmPPR/gsfid01.jpg> How to change GSF ID
<https://i.postimg.cc/HkTxTWLB/gsfid02.jpg> Filter out GSF apps

I\'d welcome a better description from someone here than I can find for you.

For example, this sounds innocuous, right?
<https://m.apkpure.com/google-services-framework/com.google.android.gsf>
Google Play services framework is used to update Google apps
and apps from Google Play. This component provides core functionality
like authentication to your Google services, synchronized contacts,
access to all the latest user privacy settings, and higher quality,
lower-powered location based services. Google Play services framework
also enhances your app experience. It speeds up offline searches,
provides more immersive maps, and improves gaming experiences.
Apps may not work if you uninstall Google Play services framework.\"

This is a completely _different_ description, isn\'t it, of what GSF is?
<https://www.technologitouch.com/tech-tips/what-is-google-services-framework/>
\"The Google Services Framework For Android is the foundational program
for Android smartphones. This application is in charge of all of the
operating system\'s services. By utilizing the application\'s features,
you will be able to execute any application loaded on your devices
without difficulty. You may experience issues with your device\'s
operation while using it.\"

Here\'s a stackexchange question on it, but even there, they gloss over what
GSF is and concentrate only on what Google Play Services is instead.
*What is Google Play Services & Google Services Framework (gapps)?*
<https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/216176/what-is-the-exact-functionality-of-google-play-services-google-services-framew>

If you can find a good description of GSF, I\'ll be all ears, trust me,
where the _simplest_ way I can explain what I think it is - is that it\'s a
set of APIs from our good old trustworthy friends at Google that many apps
can link to so that they don\'t have to write calls for stuff that Google
provides for them.

That should make you feel real confident in using apps that use it!
Luckily, the FOSS google play store clients clearly list those apps
as you can see in this snapshot I made moments ago of my Android phone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/HkTxTWLB/gsfid02.jpg> Filter out GSF apps

The problem is that GSF is sneaky too, since it comes from you know who.
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7ZspnsG/gsfid01.jpg> I just changed my GSF ID

Personally I prefer to stay away from \"SDKs\" that other apps link to that
our good old friend Google provides to them, presumably for a reason.

My criteria for apps is no adds and the ability to do at least the one
thing that I need very well. I don\'t care about the rest.

I have so many APKs that I install on so many phones that I keep an archive
<https://i.postimg.cc/bN875p8b/apk01.jpg> 1600 APKs extracted onto Windows

All the FOSS google play store clients have filters for GSF as shown here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/W1BwgSpm/aurora14.jpg> Filter out GSF apps

You\'d be hard pressed to find better apps than the ones I use, e.g.,
say you wanted to know whether your phone was connecting to your unique
femtocell tower ID or you needed to know what your neighbor\'s Wi-Fi signal
strength is, nicely graphed along with yours with the typical channel
graph, then I\'d _start_ with finding a free, ad free, google free, gsf
free, app with usually a 4+ rating and, oh, over a million installations,
and then, if none show up, you slowly open your search criteria...

Most of my apps are FOSS but there isn\'t a switch specifically for that.
For example this ia one of the best FOSS application managers for Android.
<https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager>

You can pages upon pages of information for any one given app with that.
<https://i.postimg.cc/mgFkM1bs/apk05.jpg> Sort by install or last update

Such as Activities, Services, installation date, updates, services,
receivers, providers, app ops, permissions, trackers, versions, features,
configuration, signatures, shared libs, etc.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gt53TdVt/apk06.jpg> View every activity in each app

These app managers are useful when you search by installed or updated dates
<https://i.postimg.cc/MZPpFmHw/apk07.jpg> List by install or update date

And, of course, they give you an idea of the number of trackers in each app
<https://i.postimg.cc/L5gnX3GS/linktopc07.jpg> List the trackers

What you\'re looking for is the best app which is also the least intrusive,
which, let\'s be clear, probably takes time to get to know the app well.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Gmj8xDYc/intent05.jpg> Call apps by intent

But you have to start by finding the best starting point for any
functionality, so, for example, for Wi-Fi/Cellular debuggers, start with
free ad free google free gsf free highly rated often downloaded apps.

An example is this wi-fi debugger which I personally find rather useful.
*Cellular-Z*, by JerseyHo
Free, ad free, google free, gsf free, 4+ rating, 100K+ installs
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z>
<https://i.postimg.cc/CKFhMZtS/signal03.jpg> Cellular-Z output info

While that\'s not foolproof of course, it\'s far better than wading thru this
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=graph%20wi-fi%20signal%20strength&c=apps>
<https://i.postimg.cc/fLC4zcm6/wifi04.jpg> Many signal strength apps

Although for some reason, moving from Android 11 to 12 removed hundreds!

Ummm... How many apps do you have on your Android phone? See:
Settings -> Apps and Notifications
and look for something like \"See all 202 apps\". Mine has 202 apps,
which I consider to be an overdose.

That doesn\'t really tell you the truth as you can install an app which
won\'t show up in that list, nor will it show up in the Google Play Update
list (and each of the specific update apps also gives different numbers).
<https://i.postimg.cc/j2g26zws/apk03.jpg> Google Play Store update apks

I have plenty of tools that can tell me how many \"packages\" are installed.
<https://i.postimg.cc/02jbkHFr/apk04.jpg> Sort & display apps how you like

You can sort and view your apps by many methods to keep track of them all.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jhxs4VrD/apk08.jpg> Sort by all sorts of criteria

Usually around 700 \"packages\" but we covered this question in gory detail
in the past on the Android newsgroup where you\'d actually be hard pressed
to get _two_ of the many application managers to give the same answer each.
<https://i.postimg.cc/02jbkHFr/apk04.jpg> Sort & display apps how you like

Since every app installed on Android up until recently was packaged as an
APK, it is easy to _not delete_ the APK after you install each & every app.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zBjX5kJ/aurora09.jpg> Count your archived APKs

https://i.postimg.cc/FHJ16nvF/update01.jpg> Android 11->12 screwed up!

I\'m still on Android 11 and am now at end of life with the last
security update on Apr 22, 2022.
https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/software-security-page/g_id/6806#gs=eyJndWlkZUlEIjo2ODA2LCJxdWVzdGlvbklEIjo0LCJyZXNwb25zZUlEIjoyMSwiZ3VpZGVTZXNzaW9uIjoiSjFJZ2huRXAiLCJzZXNzaW9uSUQiOiJKMUlnaG5FcCJ9
That\'s a 2 year useful life from date of Apr 2020 release. Part of
the problem is that Motorola has too many models to maintain:
\"Evolution of Motorola Moto G 2013 - 2021\"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8d2tUYjn0U

We have had _many_ discussions on the Android newsgroup about what the
update life is for an Android phone, and, well, you seem to be the type who
can handle detail, and detail is what you\'re going to need to handle if you
ever want to figure out what the various versions are for Android, and what
their actual EOL dates are for support, given there are _many_ levels!
*How long does GOOGLE say they\'ll update the two dozen core modules in project mainline?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_ZUiLVtLbsg/>

Suffice to summarize there are at least the following main Android updates,
each with their own update schedule, some of which are completely unknown:
1. User apps (such as your personal APK archive) are often updated forever
2. Key apps (such as the default web browser) are often updated forever
4. Firmware (such as the Qualcomm modem firmware) are updated by Qualcomm
5. Security updates
6. Android version updates (a team effort of google, mfr & carrier)
7. Core modules (such as the two dozen core modules) are updated by Google
8. Those core modules are always donated to the AOSP to maintain forever

But even that only scratches the surface, given the complexity of
a. Google Play Store app updates
b. Google Play Services updates
c. Google Play System updates

Each updates a different way as you can see from this recent screenshot:
<https://i.postimg.cc/fy7P3bJR/update18.jpg> Updates in 3 locations

It\'s the same with just finding which version is which scattered about:
<https://i.postimg.cc/mkSVvfc0/update05.jpg> 22.12.15 (190400-439420056)

I don\'t think I\'ve ever in my life found anyone who mentioned the actual
versions correctly (or fully) when they \"think\" they updated Android.
<https://i.postimg.cc/854Qkrbw/update19.jpg> Android System Updates
<https://i.postimg.cc/0NgqVvQG/update20.jpg> Android Core App Updates

So it\'s not hard to recover even with hundreds of apps gone AWOL.

I would think that the Android 12 update did you a favor. Time for a
spring cleaning. Wipe everything and start over from scratch.

It\'s no big deal as I can install hundreds of apps very quickly since I
maintain a well organized Android system as a Windows 10 drive letter.

Since I love learning how things work, the Android 11 to Android 12 update
gave me a perfect opportunity to figure out what \"indexing\" does when you
update Android, where I never had to look into what it does before.

I have a thread on this topic over here which I opened a day or two ago:
*Warning when updating Android 11 to Android 12*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/GngVnfddiT8>

Here are just some of the results I\'m gathering from that experiment.
<https://i.postimg.cc/FHJ16nvF/update01.jpg> Android 11->12 screwed up!
<https://i.postimg.cc/BZD7B2tr/update02.jpg> 22.12.15 (150400-439420056)
<https://i.postimg.cc/cJK9rbjn/update03.jpg> Reload all software
<https://i.postimg.cc/yNwf9T4r/update04.jpg> Google Play Services update
<https://i.postimg.cc/mkSVvfc0/update05.jpg> 22.12.15 (190400-439420056)
<https://i.postimg.cc/QNqfqdVX/update06.jpg> Android system on Windows
<https://i.postimg.cc/yNtmVWnz/update07.jpg> WebDav set to Android root
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y0wQWVJn/update08.jpg> Windows reads Android root
<https://i.postimg.cc/DzQFrfw3/update09.jpg> The default homescreen
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xqqb6wcn/update10.jpg> The Nova homescreen
<https://i.postimg.cc/MHNhkgpY/update11.jpg> App is not installed
<https://i.postimg.cc/nc9yKV3S/update12.jpg> App can be installed
<https://i.postimg.cc/0QN3z96f/update13.jpg> Only then does it work
<https://i.postimg.cc/L4tFb7ND/update14.jpg> The apps are gone!
<https://i.postimg.cc/15m2YzgR/update15.jpg> Where did they go?
<https://i.postimg.cc/mgQkjB77/update16.jpg> 119 homescreen pages!
<https://i.postimg.cc/brtpv9T1/update17.jpg> Even Zoom disappeared!
<https://i.postimg.cc/fy7P3bJR/update18.jpg> Updates in 3 locations
<https://i.postimg.cc/854Qkrbw/update19.jpg> Android System Updates
<https://i.postimg.cc/0NgqVvQG/update20.jpg> Android Core App Updates

But what you see here are the adfree hardware device info apps I suggest:
*DevCheck Hardware and System Info* by flar2
*Inware* by evowizz
*Device Info HW* by Andrey Efremov

Ok, I\'ll give them a try but will probably add them to my \"run once\"
app collection. Thanks for including the author\'s name. Apps with
duplicated names are becoming all too common.

I\'m well aware that there are many apps with the same name, and, some even
try to copy the icon of the best apps (try finding the best pedometer, for
example) where a lot of times what happens is the open source FOSS app is
shamelessly copied by other apps who try to muscle in on the success.

You\'ll find that all over the Internet, as with SatStat for example, where
the source code is often copied and then ads are added which is a shame
that people fall for that trick.
<http://mvglasow.github.io/satstat/index.html>
<https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.vonglasow.michael.satstat/>

As proof of concept, I strongly suspect this is a shameless ad-added copy!
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.drunkdeveloper.location.sensor.radio.network.wifi.status>

Same with NewPipe, and a bunch of very kewl Open Source apps that are
shamelessly copied which detracts from the overall Android experience when
people fall for those bait-and-switch tricks by the shameless copiers.
<https://newpipe.net/> (seems to be down at the moment)
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.schabi.newpipe/>

People fall for that copy crap, which is why a good filter is de rigueur.
--

 

[Andy Burnelli]

Clifford Heath wrote:

What\'s a GSF? All I could find was Golden State Foods.

GNU Software Foundation perhaps?

I apologize for not being clear, where I\'m not sure exactly what Google
Services Framework is other than it\'s a set of APIs that our good friend
Google provides so that apps can link in all sorts of stuff from Google.

If that alone doesn\'t make you wonder what\'s inside of it, bear in mind
there\'s also a (loosely? tightly?) associated _permanent_ unique GSF_ID.

Luckily, after some effort, I figured out a way, using Windows FOSS tools,
to replace the GSF ID without too badly affecting the operating system.
<https://i.postimg.cc/0Q4xmPPR/gsfid01.jpg> I changed the permanent GSF_ID

The main point though is that all the FOSS google play store clients have
an option to filter out the GSF ID (in addition to plenty of other
options), none of which will be in the google play store client itself.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YStB48LH/gsfid03.jpg> Filter out GSF apps
--
Usenet is a world-wide team sport where purposefully helpful kind-hearted
adults help each other and learn by pooling our individual capabilities.

 

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

In article <9t2b7hpv47g0flnoi6uu0uemaupkfkil47@4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

To add more to that suggestion, personally I install only apps that are GSF
free and that don\'t contain ads and which have high\'ish ratings & installs.

What\'s a GSF? All I could find was Golden State Foods.

google services framework

You were the first person to tell me about GSF years ago, which I
appreciate since you said (rightly so) that it\'s getting harder over time
to find apps that don\'t incorporate these Google calls into their code.

I\'m not ashamed to admit I don\'t know how exactly the GSF code deals with
the supposedly permanent unique GSF ID but that may be why my Android 11 to
Android 12 upgrade deleted hundreds of apps (perhaps they\'re linked to the
old GSF ID.. dunno... it\'s too many to be simply that as I only figured out
how to change the GSF_ID recently).

BTW, if others are interested in looking at your permanent unique GSF ID,
this is the app I used to make sure that my experiments actually changed it
*Device ID* by Evozi
Free, ad free, Google free, GSF free, rated 4.5, 1M+ installs
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.evozi.deviceid>

Note as someone already noted, many apps have the same names in the repos
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=device+id>

Without filters in the FOSS Google Play Store clients, I don\'t know how
anyone can find decent apps given they frequently use similar names, icons,
and descriptions - and yet - many have ads and many incorporate GSF calls.
<https://auroraoss.com/>
--
Usenet is a team sport where each person adds unique value as they see fit.

 

[Andy Burnelli]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

No, it\'s not. I guess I should be more specific. I would like to
know why you find it necessary to test a LiIon cell in a charge range
of zero to 20%, where literally every recommendation by the
manufacturers declare that to be an RBI (really bad idea)?

I _know_ it\'s a really bad idea, which is _why_ I want to see what happens.

I got a handful of these phones for free, so I have _plenty_ to work with.
It\'s just a phone. Phones are a dime a dozen. They\'re a commodity.

This is a Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, which, even if I paid for it, is cheap.

People do drop tests all the time, don\'t they?
That\'s a really bad idea too.

Looks that
specs for any BMS (battery management system) found inside most LiIon
battery packs. There is a feature that literally disconnects the cell
if the terminal voltage goes below some value which usually works out
to about 20% charge. Maybe this will help you understand the problem
you\'re creating for yourself:
\"Lithium Ion Cell Operating Window\"
https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
Notice that the \"operating area\" is between 20% and 90% SOC.

I designed microcontroller-based batter chargers as experimental tools back
in the 80\'s in graduate school but it has been a long time since then.

I\'ve probably forgotten more than I learned by then, but my main point is
that I consider all smartphones merely a tool to play with to learn about.

If you don\'t do destructive testing, you won\'t learn as much as if you do.
(As an aside, you should see the destructive testing I did on the iPad!)

I take risks with the mobile devices all the time in order to learn more.

For example, I recently figured out a way to change my supposedly permanent
supposedly unique Google-supplied GSF ID, which may be the reason that
the Android 11 to Android 12 update on my Samsung deleted hundreds of apps.
*Have you ever tried to CHANGE your unique GSF ID on your Android device?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Ixl2uMSLADc>

So it\'s not just me who is curious what happens in the real world.

Yes, but you are not the entire real world. Your currently
undisclosed operating criteria is not the same as every user and
certainly not the same as the cell phone manufacturer. The
manufacturer wants big numbers because big number sell phones.
Whatever it takes to produce big numbers balanced by cost and safety
issues. Big numbers are rather useless if the phone catches fire in
the owners pocket. So, the game of battery specmanship degenerates
into squeezing as many watt-hours out of the battery as possible by
any means deemed economical (and maybe reliable). Do it wrong, and
you have a situation like Apple, where the phone had to be slowed down
to produce a reasonable runtime as the battery aged. At that point,
the user gets involved and tries to squeeze out as much power as
possible. However, they can\'t because the manufacturer has already
done that with a complexicated BMS algorithm. So the user looks to
see what can be gained by breaking the safety rules. Good luck. If
you are actually able to run the phone at extremely low SOC, then the
manufacturer has screwed up and is selling an unsafe phone, battery,
or both. What phone and battery are you using and I\'ll be sure to
blacklist it.

It\'s the Samsung Galaxy A32-5G and it\'s the T-Mobile model SM A326U.

You\'ll see some of my experiments on the XDA Developers\' forum:
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/samsung-galaxy-a32-5g.12145/>

I\'ve always been curious about the best way to do almost any thing.
And destructive testing is a fantastic way to figure out what really
happens in the real world under real world conditions, even as you can\'t
hope to run a \"consumers report\" style full-fledged scientific
investigation with basic home equipment.

Please note my domain name, LearnByDestroying.com. The intent is
slightly different from yours. It\'s my contention that one does not
understand how something works without first breaking it, and
subsequently fixing it. Destructive testing, without subsequent
understanding (and enlightenment) is useless.

Like you appear to do, I try to learn why things fail when they fail.

For my BMW, a lot of parts break, where I take them apart to find what
caused the failure, whether that\'s the FSU or the expansion tank.

You can\'t put that stuff back together, although I did try to reseat the
myriad \"angel hair\" wires inside the ABS control module, which are just
impossible to do without specialized machines.

Having said that, my cars are decades old where I fix everything I can,
even to the point of mounting and balancing my own tires at home, so if I
_can_ fix it after taking it apart, I will fix it after taking it apart.
<https://i.postimg.cc/zvvyL2tq/mount24.jpg> Analyze the wear
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7hcV3ps/mount26.jpg> Keep close track of wear
<https://i.postimg.cc/63Kc80x9/mount29.jpg> Watch wear over time
<https://i.postimg.cc/wTf1xnzJ/mount36.jpg> Inspect root causes
<https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg> Run experiments
<https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg> Gather more data
<https://i.postimg.cc/G3HWPtQg/mount39.jpg> Test your assumptions
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zVxVHVx/mount40.jpg> ID engineering principles
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqHVb5gY/mount33.jpg> Fix root cause
<https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg> Buy a new tire
<https://i.postimg.cc/FKfFwJ25/mount48.jpg> Break the bead
<https://i.postimg.cc/g004XCLW/mount37.jpg> Replace the valve
<https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg> Mount the tire
<https://i.postimg.cc/28JK2bFB/mount58.jpg> Balance the wheel
<https://i.postimg.cc/0NGXktgp/mount59.jpg> Recycle the carcass

Bear in mind it\'s difficult to find out why some wear patterns happen
simply because they are on perfectly well aligned vehicles sometimes.
<https://www.quora.com/When-turning-I-see-there-is-a-plus-camber-in-a-vehicle-Why>

Still... I try to learn... and destructive testing is part of learning.

It\'s a tiny part but admittedly the fun part. It\'s lots of fun to
blow things up. It\'s less fun, but more educational to understand how
the device you just destroyed functions. When you destroy something
(like your phone battery), do you take or record measurements? Do you
record a video for an instant replay? Have you worked out in advance
what you expect to happen? Do you look for anomalies? Do you own a
data logger? How would blowing up a cell phone battery demonstrate
anything if you don\'t know at what voltage (or SOC) and temperature it
blew up? Did you put a plastic bag over the phone to capture any
gasses (and flying glass) produced? Do you have a new battery or
phone available for comparisons? Without these, all you\'ve \"learned\"
is how to blow up a battery or phone.

I can\'t disagree with anything you\'ve said as I run experiments all day
every day, some of which are detailed (like those tire experiments) and
others aren\'t as detailed (as my phone battery experiments are).

When I was a kid, my dad kept a box of old \"stuff\" for me to take apart.

Hint: I still act like I\'m kid. I even take things apart BEFORE I
try operating them.

The one thing really convenient about destructive autopsies is you don\'t
have to put anything back together. You just put it in the recycling bin.

Why does anyone run any experiment?

Usually because they are suspicious of the established theories of
operation and have reason to suspect that parts of the theories are
wrong or badly understood.

Notice the tire experiments above where there is precious little
information on the Internet why all the cars that are perfectly aligned in
any given twisty road area wear the tires the exact same abnormal way.

Take a look at the Scotty Kilmer video below, and note particularly that
the photos I\'ve been posting (which I\'ve posted for years) are the _same_
as in Scotty Kilmer\'s videos (just look and you\'ll recognize my pictures!).
<https://youtu.be/i7alzjqmPQo>

This is a shot he took of my BMW tires, for example, with wear lined up:
<https://i.postimg.cc/HngnZR6h/scottykilmer.jpg> He stole my images!
--
I find it a testament to my thoroughness that Scotty Kilmer stole my photos
(which clearly are the same photos as I\'ve been posting here all along).

 

[Peter W.]

Fifty-two (52) replies in pursuit of idiocy. Jimmy Neutron strikes again!

 

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 12:31:17 AM UTC-4, Andy Burnelli wrote:

Take a look at the Scotty Kilmer video below...

Kilmer is a backyard mechanic at best who doesn\'t know any more about, well, *anything* than any one else. I wouldn\'t let this guy change the oil on a car.

 

[sms]

On 5/6/2022 10:07 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

If the choice is only between a) \"fast charge at high-current to 100%
capacity\" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity\" then
yes, slow charging is better, but that\'s not how modern smart phones, or
modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are
charged.

One other thing, which could be good or bad depending on your point of
view, is that for iPhones that are capable of fast charging, if you turn
the phone off _after_ the phone is plugged into a USB-C PC charger. then
the charge rate goes down (on the iPhone, if the phone is off and a
charger is plugged in then the phone automatically turns on so you must
turn it off _after_ the charger is plugged in).

On my iPhone, with the phone on the battery begins charging at around
18W (9V@2a) then falls to about 10W (9V@1.15A) as the battery charges;
with the phone off, it charges at about 10W (5.1V@2A) then falls to
about 5.5W (5.1@1.08A).

With a USB-C PD charger, it takes _longer_ to charge an iPhone is the
power is off since the voltage never goes above the nominal 5V, yet
current is always limited to a nominal 2A. This is because the PMIC
inside the iPhone can\'t negotiate the USB-C PD charge rate when the
phone is off. On an Android phone, at least phones with Qualcomm
Snapdragon chipsets, QC charge rates are unaffected by the phone being
on or off.

Also, on the iPhone, unlike on Android devices, there is no indication
as to whether or not the phone is fast charging. Someone could be using
a junky, USB-C to Lightning cable, that they don\'t realize does not
support fast charging, but think that their phone is fast charging. You
need to plug in a USB-C to USB-C power meter between the USB-C PD
charger and the iPhone to see the charge rate.

 

[nospam]

In article <t55u4r$8u3$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Also, on the iPhone, unlike on Android devices, there is no indication
as to whether or not the phone is fast charging. Someone could be using
a junky, USB-C to Lightning cable, that they don\'t realize does not
support fast charging, but think that their phone is fast charging.

that is false. it\'s very easy to tell if it\'s fast charging.

You
need to plug in a USB-C to USB-C power meter between the USB-C PD
charger and the iPhone to see the charge rate.

there is no such need.

 

[Chris]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Drivel:
One mouse, two mice.
One house, two hice?

An upper class english accent pronounces a house as \"hice\". English is a
bastard language with so many accents and vernaculars that it\'s pointless
arguing over what is \"correct\".

 

[nospam]

In article <t560il$r56$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

Drivel:
One mouse, two mice.

mouses is an acceptable plural when referring to a computer mouse. not
applicable to the rodent.

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mouse>
plural also mouses : a small mobile manual device that controls
movement of the cursor and selection of functions on a computer
display

One house, two hice?

An upper class english accent pronounces a house as \"hice\". English is a
bastard language with so many accents and vernaculars that it\'s pointless
arguing over what is \"correct\".

true.

 

[sms]

On 5/7/2022 7:43 AM, Chris wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Drivel:
One mouse, two mice.
One house, two hice?

An upper class english accent pronounces a house as \"hice\". English is a
bastard language with so many accents and vernaculars that it\'s pointless
arguing over what is \"correct\".

I have two close friends that moved from England to California. After a
couple of decades in the U.S. they learned to speak proper English, but
they occasionally slipped up.

When they first moved to the U.S. there were some embarrassing/amusing
incidents, one involving trying to buy pencil erasers at Walgreen\'s, and
one involving the item used for washing pots and pans, while on a
backpacking trip.

 

[Tim R]

Long thread, I may have missed this above, but:

Laptops are notorious for having bricked batteries. Sometimes replacement is cheap, sometimes not.

Battery life is supposedly longest when charge is maintained between 20% and 80%. The way most of us use a laptop is to leave it plugged in all the time and treat it like a desktop. I have a couple we use that way where I\'ve removed the battery after it bricked. Anyway, the most common use of a laptop seems to be inherently hard on the battery. My millennial daughter almost never has hers plugged in while in use though.

I\'ve read that with modern auto battery chemistry, every time you run it down flat you lose one half life.

 

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:13:27 AM UTC-4, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:

I\'ve read that with modern auto battery chemistry, every time you run it down flat you lose one half life.

If you\'re talking about lead acid car batteries, then running them way down even just a couple of times is very bad for them. While discharged, they begin to sulfate almost immediately. Even a fairly new battery can be easily weakened severely by leaving it discharged for a fairly short amount of time.

EV batteries are much more tolerant of discharge than lead acid batteries are, but of course are not immune. There are plenty of published tests when determining ultimate range of EVs where they are run to zero. In the short term at least, they don\'t seem to suffer any indicated range loss. I don\'t know if any testing has been done of running an EV to zero and leaving it like that for 6 months. I\'ve read that LiPo cells are even better at tolerating extreme discharging and charging at the cost of some capacity. Some Teslas are being shipped with LiPo battery packs.

When my android phone crapped out, my buddy gave me one that belonged to his deceased daughter. The phone was only about 6 months old when she passed, and it was completely discharged for two years when I got it. I\'ve been using it about a year now and doesn\'t show any sign of battery life issues. Back when I was doing camcorder repairs, batteries that were new one Christmas were shot the next after sitting for a year without being charged.

 

[sms]

On 5/7/2022 7:02 AM, sms wrote:

On 5/6/2022 10:07 AM, sms wrote:

snip

If the choice is only between a) \"fast charge at high-current to 100%
capacity\" versus b) slow-charge at low current to 100% capacity\" then
yes, slow charging is better, but that\'s not how modern smart phones,
or modern electric vehicles, with lithium-based batteries actually are
charged.

One other thing, which could be good or bad depending on your point of
view, is that for iPhones that are capable of fast charging, if you turn
the phone off _after_ the phone is plugged into a USB-C PC charger.

Oops, USB-C PD, not USB-C PC.