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What happened to Car Radio Antennas?...

P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory wrote:
===============
Phil Allison wrote:
Rob wrote:
FM *is* used as a band name here, although of course it formally is
just as wrong as AM.

** Wot drivel.

Again, it is the only band reserved for high quality FM broadcasting.

But it\'s not called \"high quality FM broadcasting\", it\'s just called \"FM\".
** It called \" The FM band \" and it IS reserved for \"wide band\" FM broadcasting.

The name refers to what exists.


What about all the other frequencies where narrow band FM is used for
walkie-talkies, remote controls etc. etc.?
** Yawnnnnnnnnn.....


..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory wrote:
===============
Phil Allison wrote:
Rob wrote:
FM *is* used as a band name here, although of course it formally is
just as wrong as AM.

** Wot drivel.

Again, it is the only band reserved for high quality FM broadcasting.

But it\'s not called \"high quality FM broadcasting\", it\'s just called \"FM\".
** It called \" The FM band \" and it IS reserved for \"wide band\" FM broadcasting.

The name refers to what exists.


What about all the other frequencies where narrow band FM is used for
walkie-talkies, remote controls etc. etc.?
** Yawnnnnnnnnn.....


..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory wrote:
=================
Phil Allison wrote:

Only dumb, ASD sufferers treat words as if they are math.

How insulting to people with ASD.
** ROTFL !!!!!!

Obviously YOU are one of them.

Folk with ASD make all those around them suffer by shoving their bizarre thinking down their throats.

Plus totally misconstruing everyday words and their meanings.

...... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory wrote:
=================
Phil Allison wrote:

Only dumb, ASD sufferers treat words as if they are math.

How insulting to people with ASD.
** ROTFL !!!!!!

Obviously YOU are one of them.

Folk with ASD make all those around them suffer by shoving their bizarre thinking down their throats.

Plus totally misconstruing everyday words and their meanings.

...... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory wrote more dumb bullshit:
================================
I don\'t think a loop aerial on a car window would work at all well
surrounded by the much bigger thinker more conductive loop consisting of
the metal body of the vehicle in which the window is fitted.

** Not true.

AM loops sense the magnetic field of the incoming EM wave.
Some are made from co-ax with the outer shield grounded to eliminate the E field.
Less static noise that way.
The nearby car bodywork has little effect on a window loop.

It wouldn\'t be just nearby or just shielding it would form a shorted turn.
** Nonsense.

The bodywork in discontinuous and not well coupled to the antenna.
Millions of cars use the idea and it fucking works.

With shielded loops the shield is not connected all round to form a
shorted turn.
** Never said it was.



...... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory wrote more dumb bullshit:
================================
I don\'t think a loop aerial on a car window would work at all well
surrounded by the much bigger thinker more conductive loop consisting of
the metal body of the vehicle in which the window is fitted.

** Not true.

AM loops sense the magnetic field of the incoming EM wave.
Some are made from co-ax with the outer shield grounded to eliminate the E field.
Less static noise that way.
The nearby car bodywork has little effect on a window loop.

It wouldn\'t be just nearby or just shielding it would form a shorted turn.
** Nonsense.

The bodywork in discontinuous and not well coupled to the antenna.
Millions of cars use the idea and it fucking works.

With shielded loops the shield is not connected all round to form a
shorted turn.
** Never said it was.



...... Phil
 
B

Brian Gregory

Guest
On 31/07/2021 17:55, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 29/07/2021 05:18, Phil Allison wrote:
  Rob wrote:
FM *is* used as a band name here, although of course it formally is
just as wrong as AM.

** Wot drivel.

Again, it is the only band reserved for high quality FM broadcasting.

But it\'s not called \"high quality FM broadcasting\", it\'s just called \"FM\".

What about all the other frequencies where narrow band FM is used for
walkie-talkies, remote controls etc. etc.?
Oh, I forgot.

In the US there are narrow band FM weather broadcasts.

NOAA weather I think it\'s called.

Definitely FM (albeit narrow band FM).

Definitely not in the 87.5-108 MHz band (somewhere around 162MHz IIRC).

--
Brian Gregory (in England).
 
B

Brian Gregory

Guest
On 31/07/2021 17:55, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 29/07/2021 05:18, Phil Allison wrote:
  Rob wrote:
FM *is* used as a band name here, although of course it formally is
just as wrong as AM.

** Wot drivel.

Again, it is the only band reserved for high quality FM broadcasting.

But it\'s not called \"high quality FM broadcasting\", it\'s just called \"FM\".

What about all the other frequencies where narrow band FM is used for
walkie-talkies, remote controls etc. etc.?
Oh, I forgot.

In the US there are narrow band FM weather broadcasts.

NOAA weather I think it\'s called.

Definitely FM (albeit narrow band FM).

Definitely not in the 87.5-108 MHz band (somewhere around 162MHz IIRC).

--
Brian Gregory (in England).
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Brian Gregory = Rabid ASD fueled Lunatic wrote:
=====================================
FM *is* used as a band name here, although of course it formally is
just as wrong as AM.

** Wot drivel.

Again, it is the only band reserved for high quality FM broadcasting.

But it\'s not called \"high quality FM broadcasting\", it\'s just called \"FM\".

What about all the other frequencies where narrow band FM is used for
walkie-talkies, remote controls etc. etc.?

Oh, I forgot.

In the US there are narrow band FM weather broadcasts.
NOAA weather I think it\'s called.
Definitely FM (albeit narrow band FM).
Definitely not in the 87.5-108 MHz band (somewhere around 162MHz IIRC).
** Like dog with a bone, this blithering IDIOT will just not let go of his bonkers notion.

Likely he believes the name \"Steak Sauce\" is false too.

Got no damn steak in it......


...... Phil
 
A

Andy Burns

Guest
Phil Allison wrote:

> Some makers ( BMW ?) have two printed antennas on rear side windows that are boosted and fed into a selector unit that sends the stronger one to the receiver. This is called \"antenna diversity\" as is commonly used with radio mics.

My ~15 year old Honda estate had in-glass aerials in the rear side
windows, Itwas AM/FM only (maybe LW too) but I do remember it picked up
\'buzzing\' when going under electricity pylons, probably just on MW.

Next car (audi) had DAB, I don\'t know where the aerial was, but it did
have a sharkfin, which seems like it was just for GPS which the car
didn\'t actually have.

Current car also audi has DAB and I believe the sharkfin is combined GPS
and DAB, reception is improved, but I think that\'s as much due to
in-fill in the DAB transmitter network here.
 
A

Andy Burns

Guest
Phil Allison wrote:

> Some makers ( BMW ?) have two printed antennas on rear side windows that are boosted and fed into a selector unit that sends the stronger one to the receiver. This is called \"antenna diversity\" as is commonly used with radio mics.

My ~15 year old Honda estate had in-glass aerials in the rear side
windows, Itwas AM/FM only (maybe LW too) but I do remember it picked up
\'buzzing\' when going under electricity pylons, probably just on MW.

Next car (audi) had DAB, I don\'t know where the aerial was, but it did
have a sharkfin, which seems like it was just for GPS which the car
didn\'t actually have.

Current car also audi has DAB and I believe the sharkfin is combined GPS
and DAB, reception is improved, but I think that\'s as much due to
in-fill in the DAB transmitter network here.
 
F

Feather Duster

Guest
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
you may have noticed that few modern cars have any visible AM/FM
antennas these days.
[snip]
The answer ( found by Googling) is they often use the rear window
\"defroster\" grid for AM and FM reception.
[snip]
If anyone knows more, make my day.
1971 year Cadillacs [1] had at least their FM antenna as a pair of
wires embedded into the front windshield. They entered at the bottom
center, spaced about 1-2cm apart, and ran vertically in parallel up the
center of the windshield until about 3-4cm from the top, whereby each
turned 90 degrees from the other and ran horizontally in opposite
directions along the top of the windshield for about 0.3m or so each.

[1] Other nearby model years likely had the same, but I have no direct
knowledge of any of those years
 
F

Feather Duster

Guest
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
you may have noticed that few modern cars have any visible AM/FM
antennas these days.
[snip]
The answer ( found by Googling) is they often use the rear window
\"defroster\" grid for AM and FM reception.
[snip]
If anyone knows more, make my day.
1971 year Cadillacs [1] had at least their FM antenna as a pair of
wires embedded into the front windshield. They entered at the bottom
center, spaced about 1-2cm apart, and ran vertically in parallel up the
center of the windshield until about 3-4cm from the top, whereby each
turned 90 degrees from the other and ran horizontally in opposite
directions along the top of the windshield for about 0.3m or so each.

[1] Other nearby model years likely had the same, but I have no direct
knowledge of any of those years
 
T

three_jeeps

Guest
On Monday, July 26, 2021 at 4:13:02 AM UTC-4, Andy Burns wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:

Some makers ( BMW ?) have two printed antennas on rear side windows that are boosted and fed into a selector unit that sends the stronger one to the receiver. This is called \"antenna diversity\" as is commonly used with radio mics.
My ~15 year old Honda estate had in-glass aerials in the rear side
windows, Itwas AM/FM only (maybe LW too) but I do remember it picked up
\'buzzing\' when going under electricity pylons, probably just on MW.

Next car (audi) had DAB, I don\'t know where the aerial was, but it did
have a sharkfin, which seems like it was just for GPS which the car
didn\'t actually have.

Current car also audi has DAB and I believe the sharkfin is combined GPS
and DAB, reception is improved, but I think that\'s as much due to
in-fill in the DAB transmitter network here.
In the mid \'70s (I believe), there were kits available that contained a thin wire antenna that was attached to single-sided clear tape that you could apply to the inside of the windshield. A leader was attached that was placed inside the A-pilar down to and then behind the dash to the radio.
I did a few installs on the family vehicles. Some vehicles are easier than others. The reception was mediocre on both AM and FM bands.

IIRC, my parents\' 1992 Buick LeSaber had an antenna inside the windshield.
J
 
B

bruce bowser

Guest
On Monday, July 26, 2021 at 1:44:39 AM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,

you may have noticed that few modern cars have any visible AM/FM antennas these days.
Many have a \"shark fin\" antenna on the roof for GPS and possibly 4G cell phones - frequencies used are similar.
Others have a short whip antenna somewhere, not much good for AM.

The answer ( found by Googling) is they often use the rear window \"defroster\" grid for AM and FM reception.
It can be made to work like a frame antenna for AM and a L shaped wire for FM. A booster amp is added near the window for impedance matching.

Some makers ( BMW ?) have two printed antennas on rear side windows that are boosted and fed into a selector unit that sends the stronger one to the receiver. This is called \"antenna diversity\" as is commonly used with radio mics.

If anyone knows more, make my day.
I\'m sure the car manufacturers could give you even more tricks about how to boost 5G transceiving.
 
M

Michael Trew

Guest
On 7/26/2021 1:44 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Hi,

you may have noticed that few modern cars have any visible AM/FM antennas these days.
Many have a \"shark fin\" antenna on the roof for GPS and possibly 4G cell phones - frequencies used are similar.
Others have a short whip antenna somewhere, not much good for AM.

The answer ( found by Googling) is they often use the rear window \"defroster\" grid for AM and FM reception.
It can be made to work like a frame antenna for AM and a L shaped wire for FM. A booster amp is added near the window for impedance matching.

Some makers ( BMW ?) have two printed antennas on rear side windows that are boosted and fed into a selector unit that sends the stronger one to the receiver. This is called \"antenna diversity\" as is commonly used with radio mics.

If anyone knows more, make my day.


..... Phil
My \'76 Chevy C10 pickup truck has two lines running up the center of the
windshield that split off -- this is the car antenna. Some parts on the
truck were from an \'86 - so I can\'t prove if this was a feature from the
\'86 or \'76. I\'d imagine it would make replacing the windshield a bugger
if you wanted to keep your antenna in working order.
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Michael Trew wrote:
================
If anyone knows more, make my day.


My \'76 Chevy C10 pickup truck has two lines running up the center of the
windshield that split off -- this is the car antenna. Some parts on the
truck were from an \'86 - so I can\'t prove if this was a feature from the
\'86 or \'76. I\'d imagine it would make replacing the windshield a bugger
if you wanted to keep your antenna in working order.
** All these alternatives to the time honored telescopic whip are compromised.

1. They are *directional* - complete null in two possible orientations.

2. Framed in a steel structure so partially Faraday shielded.

Guess having no ugly antenna sells cars to those who value cosmetics above results.
No wonder the are many \"after market\" alternatives available.


...... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
Michael Trew wrote:
================
If anyone knows more, make my day.


My \'76 Chevy C10 pickup truck has two lines running up the center of the
windshield that split off -- this is the car antenna. Some parts on the
truck were from an \'86 - so I can\'t prove if this was a feature from the
\'86 or \'76. I\'d imagine it would make replacing the windshield a bugger
if you wanted to keep your antenna in working order.
** All these alternatives to the time honored telescopic whip are compromised.

1. They are *directional* - complete null in two possible orientations.

2. Framed in a steel structure so partially Faraday shielded.

Guess having no ugly antenna sells cars to those who value cosmetics above results.
No wonder the are many \"after market\" alternatives available.


...... Phil
 
M

Michael Trew

Guest
On 7/26/2021 7:48 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Michael Trew wrote:
================

If anyone knows more, make my day.


My \'76 Chevy C10 pickup truck has two lines running up the center of the
windshield that split off -- this is the car antenna. Some parts on the
truck were from an \'86 - so I can\'t prove if this was a feature from the
\'86 or \'76. I\'d imagine it would make replacing the windshield a bugger
if you wanted to keep your antenna in working order.

** All these alternatives to the time honored telescopic whip are compromised.

1. They are *directional* - complete null in two possible orientations.

2. Framed in a steel structure so partially Faraday shielded.

Guess having no ugly antenna sells cars to those who value cosmetics above results.
No wonder the are many \"after market\" alternatives available.


..... Phil
Personally, I\'d rather have a full whip antenna. I owned a \'99 Chevy
(Geo) Metro that had a retractable one.
 
M

Michael Trew

Guest
On 7/26/2021 7:48 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Michael Trew wrote:
================

If anyone knows more, make my day.


My \'76 Chevy C10 pickup truck has two lines running up the center of the
windshield that split off -- this is the car antenna. Some parts on the
truck were from an \'86 - so I can\'t prove if this was a feature from the
\'86 or \'76. I\'d imagine it would make replacing the windshield a bugger
if you wanted to keep your antenna in working order.

** All these alternatives to the time honored telescopic whip are compromised.

1. They are *directional* - complete null in two possible orientations.

2. Framed in a steel structure so partially Faraday shielded.

Guess having no ugly antenna sells cars to those who value cosmetics above results.
No wonder the are many \"after market\" alternatives available.


..... Phil
Personally, I\'d rather have a full whip antenna. I owned a \'99 Chevy
(Geo) Metro that had a retractable one.
 
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