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Wattage of rough service incandecent bulbs ??

D

default

Guest
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.
I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm
 
S

Steve Wolf

Guest
I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.
 
G

George Herold

Guest
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 8:08:48 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.

I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm
Yeah I found out about it in one of Jim William's articles.
fun stuff.
George H.
 
G

George Herold

Guest
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:01:39 AM UTC-5, Steve Wolf wrote:
I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.
Yup... I guess it was really my fault. (I gave DT the +1 for
reversing the ban on incandescents.)
George H.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:
Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.
Coal is still needed to manufacture steel. Both to make Coke, and to add carbon to the iron ore. I grew up in a steel town. Long trains of open topped cars deliver coal, around the clock. They are dumped from the bottom as they pass over a huge hopper, to be delivered to one of the piles.

They had piles that were hundreds of feet high, since they kept more than a 30 day supply on site, in case of strikes or mining problems. Across the highway is an Owygen reduction plant where air was compressed to liquid, and the various gasses are boiled off. The Nitrogen goes to making fertilizer. The oxygen has three markets, but there is a pipleline directly to the furnaces to make steel. The rest was sold for medical or welding. The rarer gasses were sold to various industries. Everything from Helium, up.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 8:08:48 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.

I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm
The TS-382 series were military versions in transit cases. They had a vibration reed frequency meter to display 60 Hz and 400Hz. The insides were protected for Jungle use, and the one I have, (TS-382/F)has heat strips to drive moisture out of the cabinet.
 
D

default

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:37:25 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.


Coal is still needed to manufacture steel. Both to make Coke, and to add carbon to the iron ore. I grew up in a steel town. Long trains of open topped cars deliver coal, around the clock. They are dumped from the bottom as they pass over a huge hopper, to be delivered to one of the piles.

They had piles that were hundreds of feet high, since they kept more than a 30 day supply on site, in case of strikes or mining problems. Across the highway is an Owygen reduction plant where air was compressed to liquid, and the various gasses are boiled off. The Nitrogen goes to making fertilizer. The oxygen has three markets, but there is a pipleline directly to the furnaces to make steel. The rest was sold for medical or welding. The rarer gasses were sold to various industries. Everything from Helium, up.
I don't know if it is necessary to make steel. I remember a
documentary about steel recycling where they were using carbon arc
furnaces to melt and make steel from ferrous waste.

They mentioned that they had a relatively small window where they
could source cheap off-peak electricity from the grid, but the energy
to melt it was electrical. (except for the graphite electrodes)

Of course that may just be some small mill turning out ingots of
"boutique" (special purpose) steel.

One other interesting aspect is that they'd take samples of the steel
to a lab then send a list of additives to the floor to be added to the
molten metal. Some of the chemicals were thrown in by the bag-full,
bag and all.
 
D

default

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 06:01:34 -0800 (PST), Steve Wolf
<stevwolf58@gmail.com> wrote:

I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.
I can agree, to a point. The NGs that cater to the
ideologically-driven are clogged up with people who are incapable of
rational thought and take their marching orders from a "personality"
without analyzing what is said as long as it makes them feel secure or
self-righteous. They'd rather buy into a load of bullshit than leave
the herd/cult/society/gang/religion etc. they feel comfortable in.

At least in a science or engineering group there are people who still
know how to think for themselves.

AND having worked in science, industry, and the military all my life I
have to question my choices. As engineers we are geared towards
finding ways to achieve what our corporate sponsors want, but don't we
also have a responsibility to humanity?

What are principles worth, if you can find them easy to ignore? Who
are you? (not "you" personally...)
 
D

default

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 07:23:06 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:01:39 AM UTC-5, Steve Wolf wrote:
I guess I'm only fueling the fire but ...
I do agree that politics should be kept out of these sites.
I have a viewpoint too. But I try to stick to the point of the group. Long time consuming comments on politics are unneeded. I truly truely truely believe we will convince no one on-line (and probably off line too.) In my whole life I have never ever had anyone say to me, "gosh your right I was wrong, I'm voting the opposite way this time."

I'm frustrated that I ! have go to block or filter people when the group is electronics. There are 100's and 100's of sites for this kind of discussion. It seems everyone says we need to turn the rhetoric down but then do little about it. I also note that some of you are very intelligent people electrically. I would don't want to not receive advice electronically from you. So if i did block you then I would miss your experience and knowledge. That's disappointing.

I'm frustrated that some groups have been taken over by Spam or spam like posts. To me the NG should blick them. Censorship be damned. But you can't filter everything I guess. Not every discussion should be or has to be about politics. We need the breaks of pastimes to calm our nerves.

My intention in saying this is not to rile upset or cause anyone to be abused, specially me.

Thanks for listening.

Yup... I guess it was really my fault. (I gave DT the +1 for
reversing the ban on incandescents.)
George H.

Don't beat yourself up over it.
You know that "stock footage" where they show the optically guided
bomb hitting a concrete block building? I probably had my hands in
that, so my perspective is different.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:54:51 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:37:25 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell wrote:

On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.


Coal is still needed to manufacture steel. Both to make Coke, and to add carbon to the iron ore. I grew up in a steel town. Long trains of open topped cars deliver coal, around the clock. They are dumped from the bottom as they pass over a huge hopper, to be delivered to one of the piles.

They had piles that were hundreds of feet high, since they kept more than a 30 day supply on site, in case of strikes or mining problems. Across the highway is an Owygen reduction plant where air was compressed to liquid, and the various gasses are boiled off. The Nitrogen goes to making fertilizer. The oxygen has three markets, but there is a pipleline directly to the furnaces to make steel. The rest was sold for medical or welding. The rarer gasses were sold to various industries. Everything from Helium, up.

I don't know if it is necessary to make steel. I remember a
documentary about steel recycling where they were using carbon arc
furnaces to melt and make steel from ferrous waste.
Do you have any idea how much more is needed every year? Remelt couldn't begin to supply enough.

Would you trust a bridge bout of cheap remelt? Do you remember the crap Japanese steel in the '60s? It was all remelt. How about Rebar? It is so low grade that they don't specify what they remelt. It is old wire, scrap iron and old machine tools. Things that they won't use, anywhere else. I've seen imported steel that had large, used ball bearings embedded in the sheet. Try working with that!


They mentioned that they had a relatively small window where they
could source cheap off-peak electricity from the grid, but the energy
to melt it was electrical. (except for the graphite electrodes)

Of course that may just be some small mill turning out ingots of
"boutique" (special purpose) steel.
I'm not talking a small operation. It runs full tilt, 24/7. I'll bet the motors on the hot strip, and at the cranes use more electricity than one of those remelt companies. In fact, there is a peak shaving power plant that can power the entire mill, during major outages. It uses three large GE Jet engines. It can feed the grid for peak shaving, or feed only the mill while an entire town is dark.

One other interesting aspect is that they'd take samples of the steel
to a lab then send a list of additives to the floor to be added to the
molten metal. Some of the chemicals were thrown in by the bag-full,
bag and all.
What's so interesting? A friend of mine retired from that company as an Analytic Chemist who ran test on samples from every run This company developed Aluminized Stainless for Catalytic Converters. They made the special steel used by Aeronca Aerospace for the honeycomb steel heat shields for the early Space Program. They manufacture steel for cars and appliances, along with their prefab steel buildings. All different grades, thicknesses and processes.
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 2:47:57 PM UTC-8, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 1:54:51 PM UTC-5, default wrote:

... I remember a
documentary about steel recycling where they were using carbon arc
furnaces to melt and make steel from ferrous waste.

Do you have any idea how much more is needed every year? Remelt couldn't begin to supply enough.

Would you trust a bridge bout of cheap remelt?
You have no choice, if you aren't doing engineering specification and inspecting the alloys.
There's strength specs, and structural steel includes the lowest grades (which is OK
when you use a lot of it). Soft steel bends rather than breaking, that's a virtue.

But yes, remelt cannot supply enough steel, there's still mountains of ore in Australia, furnaces in
Korea, Germany, Poland etc. and plumes of exhausted CO2. The coal for smelting ore
to iron is high-grade (low sulphur) stuff, converted first to coke for purity. To my knowledge,
the only substitute for coal is traditional Swedish steel made with charcoal (still carbon, of course).
 
J

Jasen Betts

Guest
On 2020-01-16, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-5, amdx wrote:

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.

Coal is still needed to manufacture steel.
coal is not needed there are other processes such as direct reduction
that can be fueled with hydrogen or natural gas.


--
Jasen.
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-8, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-01-16, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Coal is still needed to manufacture steel.

coal is not needed there are other processes such as direct reduction
that can be fueled with hydrogen or natural gas.
Are you sure? What kind of container holds a few tons of ore and enough hydrogen
or 'natural gas' to reduce it? Doesn't hydrogen attack the oxides in firebrick?
 
D

default

Guest
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:39:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-8, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-01-16, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Coal is still needed to manufacture steel.

coal is not needed there are other processes such as direct reduction
that can be fueled with hydrogen or natural gas.

Are you sure? What kind of container holds a few tons of ore and enough hydrogen
or 'natural gas' to reduce it? Doesn't hydrogen attack the oxides in firebrick?
“The solution that we have opted for is to have a completely fossil
fuel free value chain for steel production,” he says. The aim is to
replace imported coke and coal coming from oversees and instead use
hydrogen produced from fossil-free electricity. Hydrogen will then be
used as the main reductant to reduce iron ore and produce metallic
iron. And this process will only emit water vapor instead of carbon
dioxide.” If the new process were applied to all of Sweden’s steel
making industry, the nation’s carbon emissions could be reduced by
10%, Görnerup says.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/14/hydrogen-from-renewables-could-make-emissions-free-steel-possible/

More:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/08/f54/fcto-h2-scale-kickoff-2018-19-green.pdf
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:31:45 AM UTC-8, default wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:39:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-8, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-01-16, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Coal is still needed to manufacture steel.

coal is not needed there are other processes

Are you sure? What kind of container holds a few tons of ore and enough hydrogen
or 'natural gas' to reduce it? Doesn't hydrogen attack the oxides in firebrick?

“The solution that we have opted for is to have a completely fossil
fuel free value chain for steel production,”

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/14/hydrogen-from-renewables-could-make-emissions-free-steel-possible/

More:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/08/f54/fcto-h2-scale-kickoff-2018-19-green.pdf
yeah, but... the temperatures are VERY high, how do
you keep the H2 pressure up and ensure container integrity?

The process flow, too, seems to require very finely divided ore input, because the particle surface
is the only reaction site, and the ore heating is not mentioned, nor slag separation.
It seems the first pilot plant will have some kinks to work out, when it's starts in a few months. The
engineering for full-scale uses isn't projected this decade, nor next.
 
D

default

Guest
On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 09:05:45 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:31:45 AM UTC-8, default wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:39:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-8, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-01-16, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Coal is still needed to manufacture steel.

coal is not needed there are other processes

Are you sure? What kind of container holds a few tons of ore and enough hydrogen
or 'natural gas' to reduce it? Doesn't hydrogen attack the oxides in firebrick?

“The solution that we have opted for is to have a completely fossil
fuel free value chain for steel production,”

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/14/hydrogen-from-renewables-could-make-emissions-free-steel-possible/

More:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/08/f54/fcto-h2-scale-kickoff-2018-19-green.pdf

yeah, but... the temperatures are VERY high, how do
you keep the H2 pressure up and ensure container integrity?

The process flow, too, seems to require very finely divided ore input, because the particle surface
is the only reaction site, and the ore heating is not mentioned, nor slag separation.
It seems the first pilot plant will have some kinks to work out, when it's starts in a few months. The
engineering for full-scale uses isn't projected this decade, nor next.
 
D

default

Guest
On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 09:05:45 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 5:31:45 AM UTC-8, default wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:39:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-8, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-01-16, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Coal is still needed to manufacture steel.

coal is not needed there are other processes

Are you sure? What kind of container holds a few tons of ore and enough hydrogen
or 'natural gas' to reduce it? Doesn't hydrogen attack the oxides in firebrick?

“The solution that we have opted for is to have a completely fossil
fuel free value chain for steel production,”

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/14/hydrogen-from-renewables-could-make-emissions-free-steel-possible/

More:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/08/f54/fcto-h2-scale-kickoff-2018-19-green.pdf

yeah, but... the temperatures are VERY high, how do
you keep the H2 pressure up and ensure container integrity?

The process flow, too, seems to require very finely divided ore input, because the particle surface
is the only reaction site, and the ore heating is not mentioned, nor slag separation.
It seems the first pilot plant will have some kinks to work out, when it's starts in a few months. The
engineering for full-scale uses isn't projected this decade, nor next.
Those are just engineering concerns.

In grammar school I'd generate hydrogen with lye, aluminum foil and a
little water. You get a vigorous exothermic reaction and hydrogen
(along with some water vapor and sodium) I'd bubble the gas from the
generator through some water to cool it, or it would burst the
balloons I was filling.

We'd send balloons aloft with home-made flares and fuses into the
night. Great fun. The balloons would drift out over the Hudson river
and be miles away before they burned with a big sodium flare and a
"whump" sound seconds later.

What was unique, or seemed so, was the temperature of a hydrogen flame
in air. With a glass tube drawn to a point, a flame the size of a pin
head would melt the edges of the tubing. That, and how easy it was to
light off compared to other fuels/vapors seemed amazing.

I told some idiot at work about my childhood experiments and shortly
after heard on the news where someone was putting aluminum foil lye
and water in screw top bottles and letting them blow up. It was
"under investigation."

Without the sodium in the home-made hydrogen, the flame is nearly
impossible to see in anything but a dark room. With gas
chromatographs, we had at the place I worked, they'd check the
ignition of flame ionization detectors. with a thick watch glass and
look for condensate to tell if the flame was lit. (the detector block
was electrically heated, so heat couldn't be an indication for
ignition)
 
D

default

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:42:28 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 8:08:48 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:54:09 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
George H.

I'd seen the circuit for that and the implementation when I took apart
one of the audio oscillators we used in the Navy.

"Like the other HP oscillators, the HP200A is a Wien bridge
resistance-tuned audio oscillator using the light-bulb stabilized
negative feedback circuit designed by William Hewlett while doing
graduate work at Stanford. (Patent #2268872. Application filed in 1939
and granted in 1942)."

https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200A.htm
https://people.ohio.edu/postr/bapix/HP200C.htm

The TS-382 series were military versions in transit cases. They had a vibration reed frequency meter to display 60 Hz and 400Hz. The insides were protected for Jungle use, and the one I have, (TS-382/F)has heat strips to drive moisture out of the cabinet.
I remember those from navy ET-A school. They had two resonant reeds,
for 40 HZ and 400 HZ.

In the field we had almost all commercial equipment and not the
Army-Navy near-indestructible versions of test gear. We did get one
O'scope, big, heavy thing, that had among it's design requirements
that it be able to fall from a height of 5 feet onto concrete and
remain in calibration and operating condition. There was some talk of
testing that, but I don't think anyone did; and I think the concrete
would suffer if it had been.
 
D

default

Guest
On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 08:07:37 -0500, default <default@defaulter.net>
wrote:

I remember those from navy ET-A school. They had two resonant reeds,
for 40 HZ and 400 HZ.
should have been 60 and 400 HZ
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 8:07:41 AM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:42:28 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell wrote:

The TS-382 series were military versions in transit cases. They had a vibration reed frequency meter to display 60 Hz and 400Hz. The insides were protected for Jungle use, and the one I have, (TS-382/F)has heat strips to drive moisture out of the cabinet.

I remember those from navy ET-A school. They had two resonant reeds,
for 40 HZ and 400 HZ.
I've never seen one for 40 Hz. Only 60Hz or 60Hz and 400Hz.
 
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