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Wattage of rough service incandecent bulbs ??

S

Steve Wolf

Guest
I have build a series load test light. eg. you plug a load in and it runs in series through a lamp, in case there is a short, the lamp takes up the load, so as to not blow a fuse. The lamp you use should be 3 x's the load. eg 20 watt load should have a 60 watt bulb. this means that you really need a variety of lamps.

Once finished I realized that getting an incandescent light bulb is not so easy since the government has restricted the manufacture and importation of them. They do still allow a few varieties. One such variety is Rough Service lamps. Im kinda wondering since I assume that a 40W rough service light still uses 40w? Since that's what is on the packaging. My understanding is that they have thicker filaments, which would draw more wattage. But I think this would just give off less light. I respect the engineers who put the data on the package so I assume that a 40w is still 40 watts. It would be wrong to put anything else on the package.

Of course if I wanted a larger bulb 60w 100w 150w. I'm not sure what to use.. Maybe a flood light which I think are still available for 150w.

Finally, I wonder if I ordered incandescent lamps from Amazon, if they would be stopped at the boarder ???

Thoughts ??
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 9:45:58 AM UTC-5, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have build a series load test light. eg. you plug a load in and it runs in series through a lamp, in case there is a short, the lamp takes up the load, so as to not blow a fuse. The lamp you use should be 3 x's the load. eg 20 watt load should have a 60 watt bulb. this means that you really need a variety of lamps.

Once finished I realized that getting an incandescent light bulb is not so easy since the government has restricted the manufacture and importation of them. They do still allow a few varieties. One such variety is Rough Service lamps. Im kinda wondering since I assume that a 40W rough service light still uses 40w? Since that's what is on the packaging. My understanding is that they have thicker filaments, which would draw more wattage. But I think this would just give off less light. I respect the engineers who put the data on the package so I assume that a 40w is still 40 watts. It would be wrong to put anything else on the package.

Of course if I wanted a larger bulb 60w 100w 150w. I'm not sure what to use. Maybe a flood light which I think are still available for 150w.

Finally, I wonder if I ordered incandescent lamps from Amazon, if they would be stopped at the boarder ???

Thoughts ??
Why can't you find rgular bulbs? Anything considered a specialty bulb, which is under 60 watts was excluded. It isn't that hard to still find 60Watt, but the prices have gone up two about double. I still have a stash of them, and I'd bet that you have a friend or neighbor who has some they didn't throw out.

Dollar Tree has 60W halogen and 4W ceiling fan lamps. The only 20W that I've ever seen used odd bases. Grainger has several types, but all that I have seen were for fish tanks.

<https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=20W++light+bulbs+incadescent>
 
S

Steve Wolf

Guest
I had not thought about Grainger for lamps. Thanks for that.

I did go to my local little hardware and they only had Service lights of 40 Watts. I have not gone to a Big hardware as it is some distance. I will look there when I'm there next.

You mention halogen lamps, are they a resistive type light?? I didnt look at them cause, well they are more money and I didnt think they would work??

By the way here is in theory what the law is.

"Federal government banned the import and sale of 75- and 100-watt incandescent bulbs, effective 1 January 2014. On 1 January 2015, 40- and 60-watt bulbs were also banned. Retailers will be allowed to sell their existing inventories imported before the bans."

Regards.
 
A

amdx

Guest
On 1/12/2020 8:45 AM, Steve Wolf wrote:
I have build a series load test light. eg. you plug a load in and it runs in series through a lamp, in case there is a short, the lamp takes up the load, so as to not blow a fuse. The lamp you use should be 3 x's the load. eg 20 watt load should have a 60 watt bulb. this means that you really need a variety of lamps.

Once finished I realized that getting an incandescent light bulb is not so easy since the government has restricted the manufacture and importation of them. They do still allow a few varieties. One such variety is Rough Service lamps. Im kinda wondering since I assume that a 40W rough service light still uses 40w? Since that's what is on the packaging. My understanding is that they have thicker filaments, which would draw more wattage. But I think this would just give off less light. I respect the engineers who put the data on the package so I assume that a 40w is still 40 watts. It would be wrong to put anything else on the package.

Of course if I wanted a larger bulb 60w 100w 150w. I'm not sure what to use. Maybe a flood light which I think are still available for 150w.

Finally, I wonder if I ordered incandescent lamps from Amazon, if they would be stopped at the boarder ???

Thoughts ??
I thought Trump relaxed that law.
 
S

Steve Wolf

Guest
If its related to golf or Ukraine.
Then I sense its not done.
 
G

George Herold

Guest
Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:28:40 AM UTC-5, Steve Wolf wrote:
I had not thought about Grainger for lamps. Thanks for that.

I did go to my local little hardware and they only had Service lights of 40 Watts. I have not gone to a Big hardware as it is some distance. I will look there when I'm there next.

You mention halogen lamps, are they a resistive type light?? I didnt look at them cause, well they are more money and I didnt think they would work??

By the way here is in theory what the law is.

"Federal government banned the import and sale of 75- and 100-watt incandescent bulbs, effective 1 January 2014. On 1 January 2015, 40- and 60-watt bulbs were also banned. Retailers will be allowed to sell their existing inventories imported before the bans."

Regards.
Halogen lamps are incandescent lamps. The Halogen gas not only lets the filament run hotter, it helps redeposit the evaporated tungsten on the filament. This gives more Lumens per watt, and longer service life.
 
D

default

Guest
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.
I think economics will win out in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
G

George Herold

Guest
On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out
Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

George H.
 
A

amdx

Guest
On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out
I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.
Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek



Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
D

default

Guest
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek
Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.

The 1%'ers are well off too. Corporate taxes were halved.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.

The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).

Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."
Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
D

default

Guest
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out
My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)
From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
>George H.
 
A

amdx

Guest
On 1/14/2020 12:28 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!
You tell me, is there any other better to time get the Chinese to
shape up? Why would you expect it to be costless?


He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.
These are not just Christmas numbers!

> The 1%'ers are well off too.

Oh, so you hate the rich. But it is not only the rich that are doing
well, the low end is also doing much better.

>Corporate taxes were halved.

Oh that's good, competition will force those corporate savings on the
both of us and all Americans.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."
So either they pay their workers more, lower their prices or their
stock price goes up. All those are good things.

Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.
What do you want? I think that is progress, no more buggy whip makers.
Probably better to get the miners out of the mines anyway, but it is an
employment problem and Trump seems to want to do less harm to the coal
miners than the rest of the democratic candidates.


The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.
I admit that we should control our debt and deficit, I also know that
the larger the economy the smaller the percentage the dept and deficit
become.

The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).
Ya, there should have been some additional regulations on the banks and
financial institutions.
But then regs have their downside. Like when the Obamacare regs
started in 2012, I had a standard BCBS family Health Insurance Policy,
It went up 18.2%, 19.4% and 24% the next three years. That was not
inflation, that was government inflicted policies that caused the increases.

Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
D

default

Guest
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:48:06 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/14/2020 12:28 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!


You tell me, is there any other better to time get the Chinese to
shape up? Why would you expect it to be costless?
Nothing we do has much influence with the Chinese. The Chinese
"problem" is entirely in Trump's addled brain(?).
He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.


These are not just Christmas numbers!
No? We'll know soon enough won't we?

This happens every year.

There's another factor at work during the Xmas season. A lot of
people take vacation or days without pay etc., so production dips,
while airlines see a bump in profits. That also reverses right after
Xmas.
The 1%'ers are well off too.

Oh, so you hate the rich. But it is not only the rich that are doing
well, the low end is also doing much better.
I'm in the top 3%.
Corporate taxes were halved.

Oh that's good, competition will force those corporate savings on the
both of us and all Americans.
Yup, adjusted for inflation, wages are up point six percent, while the
consumer price index is up ~2%. wages up but prices are up more

If you just look at one statistic, things are definitely rosy. In the
real world, there's always more at play than a single statistic.

That's like Dog Turd telling the treasury to "just print more money,"
to reduce the national debt. Something Bozo Boy actually did.

And this anecdote is even more precious:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/406085-trumps-plan-to-help-eliminate-federal-debt-was-to-print-money
Gary Cohn, the now-former top economic adviser, told Trump that the
Federal Reserve was likely to increase rates during his first term in
office, in an excerpt first reported by Business Insider.

“We should just go borrow a lot of money, hold it, and then sell it to
make money,” Trump reportedly said in response.

Cohn was “astounded” by the president’s response, which he reportedly
said illustrated a “lack of basic understanding” about how federal
debt works.
**********
There are children with a better understanding of finance than that.
AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

So either they pay their workers more, lower their prices or their
stock price goes up. All those are good things.
You haven't factored in human greed.
Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

What do you want? I think that is progress, no more buggy whip makers.
Probably better to get the miners out of the mines anyway, but it is an
employment problem and Trump seems to want to do less harm to the coal
miners than the rest of the democratic candidates.

I'd settle for honesty.
Trump is telling us "We are putting coal miners back to work." The
coal industry hasn't seen any growth in spite of gutting EPA
regulations. International market forces have more sway than domestic
consumption.

Progress affects us all. No industry is immune. Even in engineering
- what once took understanding and lots of work, is simulated in a
computer program. Some of the new crop of grads have no grounding in
fundamentals, "there's an app for that."

I shouldn't talk, I was happy to ditch my slide rule for a calculator.
(although I still had to do square roots on the slide rule until they
caught up)

AND if you are still in the "us versus them" mind-set, you haven't
figured out that the system is broken and all politicians are crooks.
A career politician is only there to get re-elected, he only
represents himself and his career.

Us versus them, is just another way of saying, divide and conquer.
The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.

I admit that we should control our debt and deficit, I also know that
the larger the economy the smaller the percentage the dept and deficit
become.


The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).


Ya, there should have been some additional regulations on the banks and
financial institutions.
There were a whole series of banking regulations that were instituted
during the 1930's depression. Removing them saw profits soar or a
bubble form (depending on how tethered to reality one is)

But then regs have their downside. Like when the Obamacare regs
started in 2012, I had a standard BCBS family Health Insurance Policy,
It went up 18.2%, 19.4% and 24% the next three years. That was not
inflation, that was government inflicted policies that caused the increases.
Unfettered capitalism results in price fixing by a few large companies
and monopoly corporations or consortiums.

Greed is a good individual survival trait, but it can be very harmful
to large civilizations.
Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
A

amdx

Guest
On 1/14/2020 4:41 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:48:06 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/14/2020 12:28 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!


You tell me, is there any other better to time get the Chinese to
shape up? Why would you expect it to be costless?

Nothing we do has much influence with the Chinese. The Chinese
"problem" is entirely in Trump's addled brain(?).

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.


These are not just Christmas numbers!

No? We'll know soon enough won't we?

This happens every year.

There's another factor at work during the Xmas season. A lot of
people take vacation or days without pay etc., so production dips,
while airlines see a bump in profits. That also reverses right after
Xmas.
Look here at how the unemployment rate has had a steady drop since 2017.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/national-employment-monthly-update.aspx


The 1%'ers are well off too.

Oh, so you hate the rich. But it is not only the rich that are doing
well, the low end is also doing much better.

I'm in the top 3%.
Income or assets?


Corporate taxes were halved.

Oh that's good, competition will force those corporate savings on the
both of us and all Americans.

Yup, adjusted for inflation, wages are up point six percent, while the
consumer price index is up ~2%. wages up but prices are up more
If indeed wages are up point 6 percent 'ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION' then the
2% price index is irrelevant.
But, I admit, that is lower than I expected. I think you should also
add in the decrease in taxes paid as additional income.

If you just look at one statistic, things are definitely rosy. In the
real world, there's always more at play than a single statistic.

That's like Dog Turd telling the treasury to "just print more money,"
to reduce the national debt. Something Bozo Boy actually did.

And this anecdote is even more precious:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/406085-trumps-plan-to-help-eliminate-federal-debt-was-to-print-money
Gary Cohn, the now-former top economic adviser, told Trump that the
Federal Reserve was likely to increase rates during his first term in
office, in an excerpt first reported by Business Insider.

“We should just go borrow a lot of money, hold it, and then sell it to
make money,” Trump reportedly said in response.

Cohn was “astounded” by the president’s response, which he reportedly
said illustrated a “lack of basic understanding” about how federal
debt works.
**********
There are children with a better understanding of finance than that.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

So either they pay their workers more, lower their prices or their
stock price goes up. All those are good things.

You haven't factored in human greed.


Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

What do you want? I think that is progress, no more buggy whip makers.
Probably better to get the miners out of the mines anyway, but it is an
employment problem and Trump seems to want to do less harm to the coal
miners than the rest of the democratic candidates.

I'd settle for honesty.

Trump is telling us "We are putting coal miners back to work." The
coal industry hasn't seen any growth in spite of gutting EPA
regulations. International market forces have more sway than domestic
consumption.
Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.
 
D

default

Guest
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:55:45 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/14/2020 4:41 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:48:06 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/14/2020 12:28 PM, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!


You tell me, is there any other better to time get the Chinese to
shape up? Why would you expect it to be costless?

Nothing we do has much influence with the Chinese. The Chinese
"problem" is entirely in Trump's addled brain(?).

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.


These are not just Christmas numbers!

No? We'll know soon enough won't we?

This happens every year.

There's another factor at work during the Xmas season. A lot of
people take vacation or days without pay etc., so production dips,
while airlines see a bump in profits. That also reverses right after
Xmas.

Look here at how the unemployment rate has had a steady drop since 2017.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/national-employment-monthly-update.aspx

You mean since 2010?
Did you know that most homeless people are working at least one job?
Homelessness is on the rise yet flies under the radar since they are
busy working not standing around to be counted. (which is how HUD
comes up with their numbers - counts people in large cities during the
day, in places where they typically concentrate)

What point are you trying to make? That in spite of "Mexicans
stealing jobs," unemployment is still going down?

Statistics don't often give a clear picture. There are too many
variables involved. They can be manipulated and displayed in ways
that deliberately obfuscate reality.

Take the state-reported jobless statistics. Those are typically
arrived at by seeing who is collecting unemployment not who is willing
and able to work but not working. or working off the books when a job
becomes available.

The 1%'ers are well off too.

Oh, so you hate the rich. But it is not only the rich that are doing
well, the low end is also doing much better.

I'm in the top 3%.

Income or assets?
I'm retired, so my income is low. I'm better off than most, but to be
above the ten percentile doesn't take much these days.


Corporate taxes were halved.

Oh that's good, competition will force those corporate savings on the
both of us and all Americans.

Yup, adjusted for inflation, wages are up point six percent, while the
consumer price index is up ~2%. wages up but prices are up more

If indeed wages are up point 6 percent 'ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION' then the
2% price index is irrelevant.
I'd say it is very relevant to quality of life.

But, I admit, that is lower than I expected. I think you should also
add in the decrease in taxes paid as additional income.


If you just look at one statistic, things are definitely rosy. In the
real world, there's always more at play than a single statistic.

That's like Dog Turd telling the treasury to "just print more money,"
to reduce the national debt. Something Bozo Boy actually did.

And this anecdote is even more precious:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/406085-trumps-plan-to-help-eliminate-federal-debt-was-to-print-money
Gary Cohn, the now-former top economic adviser, told Trump that the
Federal Reserve was likely to increase rates during his first term in
office, in an excerpt first reported by Business Insider.

“We should just go borrow a lot of money, hold it, and then sell it to
make money,” Trump reportedly said in response.

Cohn was “astounded” by the president’s response, which he reportedly
said illustrated a “lack of basic understanding” about how federal
debt works.
**********
There are children with a better understanding of finance than that.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

So either they pay their workers more, lower their prices or their
stock price goes up. All those are good things.

You haven't factored in human greed.


Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

What do you want? I think that is progress, no more buggy whip makers.
Probably better to get the miners out of the mines anyway, but it is an
employment problem and Trump seems to want to do less harm to the coal
miners than the rest of the democratic candidates.

I'd settle for honesty.

Trump is telling us "We are putting coal miners back to work." The
coal industry hasn't seen any growth in spite of gutting EPA
regulations. International market forces have more sway than domestic
consumption.

Yes, the only increase my admittedly short search found was W. Virginia
where jobs increased 12.7% during 2017 and 2018. The problem, coal is
fighting the low cost of natural gas because of the increase in fracking.
Fracking is interesting. I can't help but wonder what the hidden
costs are, and on balance, whether it is better than coal? Nothing
trumps renewable energy (though seems to me we should have coal miners
making turbines and solar panels, instead we buy them from China,
Germany, Italy....)
 
G

George Herold

Guest
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 07:41:12 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:32:05 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

My cuz was bequeathed this 6 family apartment house and like all
landlords was bitching and moaning about (among other things) the
tenants who'd leave the stairway lights on 24/7 (there were large
windows to let light in).

I got his electric bills out and showed him what the incandescent
bulbs were costing him (~$300/year versus LEDs <$40 a year) and nary a
peep (on that topic) again. Hardly pays to have an electrician to
install a timer.


Right let the market decide.
in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1

Nice, I've seen these Zen amps before... (I'm a class A type of guy.)
Is this meant as an active load to test amps and such?
(make sure the heatsink is big enough.)

From what I gather, they are using the lamps as a current
regulator/resistor with no need for a heat sink.
Oh I meant a heat sink for the FET.

In the ancient past, teletypes used purpose-built tungsten filament
bulbs as a current regulating ballast. They'd glow dimly when in use.
I used them for AGC in a Wien bridge oscillator. Good fun.
GH
> >George H.
 
G

George Herold

Guest
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:28:28 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.

The 1%'ers are well off too. Corporate taxes were halved.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.

The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).

Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."
Oh Dear, Look I know this will most likely fall on deaf ears, but
I would like to keep politics out of SEB. I'm no Trump fan, but
when he does something right, I'll give him credit. I find your
words disturbing, the US is a very diverse country. Let's try to
treat everyone with respect. I don't know how else to heal the
vast division in our country.

George H.
Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
D

default

Guest
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:11:54 -0800 (PST), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:28:28 PM UTC-5, default wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:08:04 -0600, amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

On 1/13/2020 9:32 PM, default wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:55:57 -0800 (PST), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Yup,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49591143
+1 for DT

George H.

I think economics will win out

I think you're right economics will win, and LED lighting will be the
way, Trump probably understands that, so let the people that have an

application where an incandescent is better use them. +1 for Trump.



in spite of Dog Turd's hazy
understanding of... well... everything.


Everything? You aren't paying attention. The unemployment rate is 3.5%.
Manufacturing companies are coming back to the US. It looks like China
is getting pushed to at least less stealing and manipulation.
Workers have had real raises to their income. More than 7 million
people have been lifted off of Food stamps. Small Business Optimism
Index at all time highs. More than 100 utility companies have announced
lower rates. Reauthorized more than $1 billion for career education
programs.
Women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years.
Also, minorities have lowest Unemployment rates in dozens of years.
Trump has improved our Military readiness, GDP growth has been
fantastic. The Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey’s income
inequality measure declined in 2018. Trump's policy have started a Blue
collar boom. Trump policies have slowed illegal immigration.
These are just a few of the great things Trump has done for the
country. The list could go on for pages, your term 'everything' is just
a symptom of Trump derangement syndrome.
Just think what could have been done if the democrats and media weren't
on a hatefest with impeachment. If they had worked for the American
people instead of focus on eliminating Trump. But then, their hate for
Trump takes precedent over working to improve American lives.

Mikek

Oh yeah I was impressed with the GDP growth. Until I discovered that
due to Trump's trade wars. he's now having to subsidize farming
(probably agribusiness since small farms are still failing) to the
tune of 28 billion dollars or. in other words, exactly what the GDP
growth was for the same period! AND that is over twice what it cost
to bail out auto makers!

He's taking credit for the low unemployment figures - yet the low
unemployment is seasonal right around Xmas.

The 1%'ers are well off too. Corporate taxes were halved.

AND
"An in-depth analysis of Fortune 500 companies' financial filings
finds that at least 60 of the nation's biggest corporations didn't pay
a dime in federal income taxes in 2018 on a collective $79 billion in
profits, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy said today."

Coal miners are suffering? Of course they are, it is far cheaper to
pay one drag-line operator to do the work of 5,000 miners. and way
cheaper to use natural gas for power generation.

The thing you and other brain-dead bozos of your ilk don't understand
is that the economic policies of one president aren't felt until the
administration has been out of office for decades.

The financial crisis of 07-08? were largely the result of Ronald
Wilson Reagan's deregulation policies (further abetted by Bush the
Lesser and Bill, I never had sex with that woman, Clinton).

Trump is a cult. Trump followers are easily manipulated. It is no
wonder that "evangelicals" like trump, they pride themselves on their
lack of analytical thinking. Nothing must shake their "faith."

Oh Dear, Look I know this will most likely fall on deaf ears, but
I would like to keep politics out of SEB. I'm no Trump fan, but
when he does something right, I'll give him credit. I find your
words disturbing, the US is a very diverse country. Let's try to
treat everyone with respect. I don't know how else to heal the
vast division in our country.

George H.
If it is disturbing, pretend it doesn't exist.

I don't agree with that. I think we are in our present situation
because people are all too happy to let those least able to govern do
so. People with the integrity to lead well, are not drawn to politics
the way it is practiced. Failure to speak up is tacit acceptance in
my opinion, venue be damned.


I'm sure your news reader allows you to killfile authors you find
disturbing.

Personally I like the idea of their availability, I have an incubator
that uses them and they are damned handy when used as a ballast.
Resistance changes a factor of >10 from cold to hot.

Check this baby out:
https://www.passdiy.com/projects/images/content/zenlite_24.png

Full schematic:
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/zen-variations-1
 
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