Super duper hype fast FET driver?

[Bill Sloman]

On Aug 22, 1:55 am, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:39:06 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman

bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

You think I faked the waveforms? Or the company? Or the awards?

I'm not arguing that you aren't an expert electronic engineer, merely
commenting on your persistent need to be *seen* as an expert
electronic engineer, designing "insanely good" circuits.

As soon as the thread gets off topic, he loses this gratification, and
throws his rattle out of the cot. What a pity. I'd feel a certain
sympathy for his feelings of deprivation, if he didn't get so
downright nasty when he's feeling deprived.

If you ever went off-topic with anything new, it wouldn't be so bad.
But you don't.

Not that you'd notice.

You pick the same old things, and you never point out
anything interesting or useful or funny, you only drone out insults.

So you don't get my jokes, and you interpret every critical comment as
an insult. Maybe you are the problem?

You aren't interested in anything but yourself... and what a
depressing subject.

I hadn't realised that I was so self-obsessed - I'll have to pay even
closer attention to what I post about growing up in Tasmania and going
to a better university than Tulane ...

Go back to your Baxandall circuit; you might get it to actually
oscillate in another decade or so.

I invented that back in 1986, for a retrofit to the Metals Research
GaAs crystal puller. Back then their crystal pullers made 95% of the
single crystal GaAs produced on our side of the Iron Curtain, and
you've probably used some of the GaAs made in one of those machines.
It has been oscillating for more than twenty years now.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 08/22/11 05:04, John Larkin wrote:

Unfortunately, my 600 ps mystery driver is only good for 6.5 volts
maybe

I don't know why you reckon your use of TinyLogic is secret, given
you've talked about them here more than once before? Do you use the
Schmidt trigger versions, or normal inverters? 6.5V is a little more
than Vmax, but that's never been known to stop you before .

Clifford Heath.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 08/22/11 08:02, John Larkin wrote:

Looking at the 2N7002 data sheets, one would never expect the sorts of
speeds I'm seeing. All you can do is get some parts and try them.

The ones that switch fast seem to have low Cg, modest Rds-on, and peak
drain current ratings under an amp (which doesn't stop me from going
above an amp.)

I recall Win Hill getting kilovolt edges in a couple of ns from fets
that, from the data sheets, shouldn't do that.

I recall that was in response to a big discussion I triggered here when
I mentioned Tom McEwan's patents. He used various tricks, including
inductive peaking to drive the gate to what should have been twice
Vgs(max), saved by the source lead inductance.

Clifford Heath.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:

I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material realities.

No, I'm not just bashing on religion from the outside. I've been there too,
got the t-shirt. I have no problem with people trusting G*d... but to do that
they must first trust themselves and other humans, and that's where the whole
edifice fails.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.

Far from true. There's a continuous interpretive and theological
tradition that goes back to the apostolic period. The Church is the
mother of science and the inventor of the university.

No, I'm not just bashing on religion from the outside. I've been there too,
got the t-shirt. I have no problem with people trusting G*d... but to do
that
they must first trust themselves and other humans, and that's where the
whole
edifice fails.

Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity
and religious and all, are fallen human beings who sin every day despite
our best efforts.

It sounds like you had some bad experience, either through someone
else's sin, or through yours (or maybe both), and I'm sorry about that.
But unforgiveness like that will eat you alive, whether you return to
the church or not.

Goodness and faithfulness are difficult, and are made even more
difficult if one doesn't have the help of the Holy Spirit.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 08/22/11 15:24, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Far from true.

Whhooooosh. So far over your head, you've got no idea there's even a place where such ideas could exist. BTDT.

BTW, I have nothing against any individual, and respect you and Joerg more highly than almost anyone else here. Just don't get the impression that means I think you're right . I merely believe Jeremiah, that "The human heart is more deceitful than all else". It's incredibly difficult to clearly see and understand the things we can see or interact with physically, and impossible for things we can't - about those we can only have opinions. And luckily, that doesn't even matter much, and certainly doesn't impede our ability to lead an ethical and productive life.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:44:41 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote:

On 08/22/11 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
Unfortunately, my 600 ps mystery driver is only good for 6.5 volts
maybe

I don't know why you reckon your use of TinyLogic is secret, given
you've talked about them here more than once before? Do you use the
Schmidt trigger versions, or normal inverters? 6.5V is a little more
than Vmax, but that's never been known to stop you before .

Clifford Heath.

Wonder if J Narcissist Larkin realizes I designed most of OnSemi's TinyLogic
series ?

...Jim Thompson

[On the Road, in New York]
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Joerg]

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 17:37:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:27:05 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:36:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:09:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[...]

http://www.kexin.com.cn/pdf/KC846S.pdf
No useful specs.

That is normal with many Asian suppliers, got to get used to it and test
a lot for yourself. You can sometimes obtain additional data from them
but sometimes you'd have to be married to the CEO's cousin's daughter or
something like that.
"Test a lot?" What does that tell me? It went against my grain to use a
green LED (GaN) at 3.3V. "Because one works..." Well, at least if the next
lot doesn't work we'll know.

I didn't mean a lot as in production lot, but as in "a lot of testing"

Meaning some of the properties have to be measure. In some designs that
is the only way to succeed because there are no parts that can
"formally" do what you need them to do.


http://www.rohm.com/products/discrete/transistor/complex/#03
"Very small package with two transistors."

All those aren't fast though.
Me? I don't need fast. ;-)

Lucky you

Almost all my stuff is RF nowadays.
We buy modules for all that stuff. I wouldn't attempt it with the shoestring
capital budget we're on (we're down a scope and it doesn't appear that they're
going to even replace it).

A scope? That's scary. I hope that doesn't mean any bad news. You can
nowadays get a lotta scope for $1-2k.
Or a Rigol, for $350.

That may be bit skimpy. I often find myself debugging and finding things
on the digital side, where everyone was 110% sure it couldn't possibly
be a software issue. That's mostly SPI and other serial buses where 2ch
won't really work. Also, I found that 100MHz BW ain't enough. Glitches
in systems where a 8051 screams along at 80MHz or so are specterally
above that.

That's been my point when management (and the other engineer) suggest that
100MHz is enough. Gotta have at least 3X, 5x is better.

No need for 3x or 5x here. I have a 200MHz BW scope with 1GSPS realtime,
cost me about $1800 including tax. If things get any faster then I can
usually make them repetitive, at least on a temporary basis, and fire up
the old HP. That only has a 40MHz converter but a very good one and its
BW is 1GHz.

It's just so weird to see the words "8051 screams along" run together like
that. ;-)

Like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBD0YpdRf4Y

I am not a gigital guy but AFAIK there aren't too many other uCs that
you can clock at 100MHz.

But IIRC there was that Dave Jones tuning

For SPI and particularly I2C, I'd really like to see both the analog and data
domains, particularly for triggering.

Well yeah, but sometimes if you want more and more features it gets more
expensive and then da boss says no. I'd rather have a simpler scope than
no scope at all. Some of the newer baseline models have a feature or an
option for purchase that adds 4-16 digital inputs for logic analysis. I
never felt the urge since I have a logic analyzer. That has a trigger
output for the scope but I haven't needed that in years.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

Joerg wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:


You can't lay off a scope. ;-)



Sure you can. On Ebay. And the upside is the scope, once sold, won't
turn around and serve you with a lawsuit about half a gazillion hours of
overtime that the scope feels it should have been paid for.

Well there are the socialist kind of trade unionized scopes that don't
work; so they won't sell from Ebay. However, they ask for expensive
genuine parts and an authorized shop for repair

And the li'l green line on the screen only shows up if a PLA is in
place. Oh, and you can't sell the old scope if cash-strapped. No, you
must sell the newest one first because of the seniority rule,
performance or usefulness if no interest

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 08/22/2011 01:50 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 08/22/11 15:24, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Far from true.

Whhooooosh. So far over your head, you've got no idea there's even a
place where such ideas could exist. BTDT.

BTW, I have nothing against any individual, and respect you and Joerg
more highly than almost anyone else here. Just don't get the impression
that means I think you're right . I merely believe Jeremiah, that "The
human heart is more deceitful than all else". It's incredibly difficult
to clearly see and understand the things we can see or interact with
physically, and impossible for things we can't - about those we can only
have opinions. And luckily, that doesn't even matter much, and certainly
doesn't impede our ability to lead an ethical and productive life.

Knowledge of God is primarily knowledge by acquaintance, like your
knowledge of your mom. God wants everyone to know Him like that--it's a
love relationship with a real Person, not a set of propositions, and
it's available to you just as much as to me or anyone else. God is
beautiful beyond all earthly beauty.

Christianity considered as a philosophical system is entirely consistent
with honestly conducted science, and in fact theism avoids some inherent
contradictions in the mechanistic world view.(*) Thomas Aquinas
insisted that there is only one kind of truth, i.e. all true statements
hold up to honest inquiry from any angle whatever. Emphasis on "honest".

Silly Christians certainly exist--the 144-hour creation folks for
instance--and so do scientists who use their prestige in their own
fields to make pronunciamentos in areas far from their expertise. But
the latter isn't science, and the former isn't Christianity, and both
are destructive.

The way unforgiveness eats people up isn't theology, though, it's a
matter of common observation.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


(*) For anyone who's interested, I have a couple of blog posts about the
details of these and related arguments:

"If Nature Has Laws, How Can God Do Anything?"
http://firstaidtheology.net/2007/12/23/gods-providence-part-1-if-nature-has-laws-how-can-god-do-anything.aspx

"Does Science Disprove Religion?"
http://firstaidtheology.net/2007/11/21/does-science-disprove-religion.aspx


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 06:48:40 -0400, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:44:41 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> wrote:

On 08/22/11 05:04, John Larkin wrote:
Unfortunately, my 600 ps mystery driver is only good for 6.5 volts
maybe

I don't know why you reckon your use of TinyLogic is secret, given
you've talked about them here more than once before? Do you use the
Schmidt trigger versions, or normal inverters? 6.5V is a little more
than Vmax, but that's never been known to stop you before .

Clifford Heath.

Wonder if J Narcissist Larkin realizes I designed most of OnSemi's TinyLogic
series ?

...Jim Thompson

[On the Road, in New York]

What a content-free, narcissistic thing to say, boasting without
content.

I wonder if he actually remembers anything about them.

John

 

[Joerg]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or
witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another
stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.

Far from true. There's a continuous interpretive and theological
tradition that goes back to the apostolic period. The Church is the
mother of science and the inventor of the university.

I couldn't have said it any better than Phil. Just want to add that we
Christians try to follow Jesus' teachings, not witch burning or Old
Testament eye-for-eye type punishment. Unfortunately even the Christian
(Catholic) church did not follow Jesus in medieval times which is why
Mrtin Luther had to start reforming the church.

No, I'm not just bashing on religion from the outside. I've been there
too,
got the t-shirt. I have no problem with people trusting G*d... but to do
that
they must first trust themselves and other humans, and that's where the
whole
edifice fails.

Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity
and religious and all, are fallen human beings who sin every day despite
our best efforts.

It sounds like you had some bad experience, either through someone
else's sin, or through yours (or maybe both), and I'm sorry about that.
But unforgiveness like that will eat you alive, whether you return to
the church or not.

Goodness and faithfulness are difficult, and are made even more
difficult if one doesn't have the help of the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Nico Coesel]

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.

Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity

Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!

And its not limited to NL and Belgium:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HOUSE+OF+HORROR%3B+100+set+to+sue+over+abuse+at+Goldenbridge+orphanage.-a060662525
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53545205/Torture-Assassinations-Vaccine-Trials-Child-Trafficking-Conducted-By-Nuns-Around-The-World

Right now its dinner time over here but I suddenly lost my appetite!

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:14:42 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 17:37:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:27:05 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:36:40 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:09:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[...]

http://www.kexin.com.cn/pdf/KC846S.pdf
No useful specs.

That is normal with many Asian suppliers, got to get used to it and test
a lot for yourself. You can sometimes obtain additional data from them
but sometimes you'd have to be married to the CEO's cousin's daughter or
something like that.
"Test a lot?" What does that tell me? It went against my grain to use a
green LED (GaN) at 3.3V. "Because one works..." Well, at least if the next
lot doesn't work we'll know.

I didn't mean a lot as in production lot, but as in "a lot of testing"

Meaning some of the properties have to be measure. In some designs that
is the only way to succeed because there are no parts that can
"formally" do what you need them to do.


http://www.rohm.com/products/discrete/transistor/complex/#03
"Very small package with two transistors."

All those aren't fast though.
Me? I don't need fast. ;-)

Lucky you

Almost all my stuff is RF nowadays.
We buy modules for all that stuff. I wouldn't attempt it with the shoestring
capital budget we're on (we're down a scope and it doesn't appear that they're
going to even replace it).

A scope? That's scary. I hope that doesn't mean any bad news. You can
nowadays get a lotta scope for $1-2k.
Or a Rigol, for $350.

That may be bit skimpy. I often find myself debugging and finding things
on the digital side, where everyone was 110% sure it couldn't possibly
be a software issue. That's mostly SPI and other serial buses where 2ch
won't really work. Also, I found that 100MHz BW ain't enough. Glitches
in systems where a 8051 screams along at 80MHz or so are specterally
above that.

That's been my point when management (and the other engineer) suggest that
100MHz is enough. Gotta have at least 3X, 5x is better.


No need for 3x or 5x here. I have a 200MHz BW scope with 1GSPS realtime,
cost me about $1800 including tax. If things get any faster then I can
usually make them repetitive, at least on a temporary basis, and fire up
the old HP. That only has a 40MHz converter but a very good one and its
BW is 1GHz.


It's just so weird to see the words "8051 screams along" run together like
that. ;-)


Like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBD0YpdRf4Y

I am not a gigital guy but AFAIK there aren't too many other uCs that
you can clock at 100MHz.

We use an NXP ARM LPC1754, and it can clock at 100 MHz. Since it's a
register-rich 32-bit RISC thing, it really screams. We buy them
programmed with our code and laser marked from Arrow for $4.75 each.

We're also using LPC3250s, which clock at 270 MHz or some such, around
$8.

John

 

[Nico Coesel]

Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Nico Coesel wrote:
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
It's not your foundations that I'm worried about, it's the foundations
of the science that you - indirectly - rely on to make your money. If
your sub-contradtors were to reject experimental evidence because they
thought that the results didn't fit with their - say, anti-abortion -
theology you could eventually find yourself in serious trouble with
the FDA.

For the record, I am against abortion and if someone wanted me to work
on some device that is used in that area I will refuse. It is my right
to do so.

Perhaps, but given a certain situation you may choose different. There
are many grey areas when it comes to these sort of decisions. The
bottom line is that you are in no position to choose what is best for
someone else.


I didn't say that. I said I am personally against it. So, naturally, I
wish my tax Dollars not be used for that either. If someone commits a
sin it is not up to me to judge them but it is up to me not to support
that. Just like I do not support free drug use.

I wish the neighbours would think the same They are on holiday and
from the smell it seems their kids smoke a kilo of pot each day.

Of course there will always be triage type situations where there are
only two choices, between the yet unborn's survival and the mother's
survival. That's very different. What I meant was "doing it" and then,
whoops, "got to get rid of it". That is a grave sin.

I believe that labeling things as a sin usually ends up making the
wrong choices by not considering the circumstances. One of my former
teachers (a former priest) had an interesting example. One of his
parishioners had been living with his sister all his life. He was
afraid that he would not go to heaven because of that. My former
teacher told him that this sin would be forgiven because its not THAT
serious. His motivation was simple: true love between two adults can
never be wrong.

The real problem is ofcourse that the ofspring from a brother and
sister is prone to genetic defects. Much practical knowledge from
ancient times has been embedded as rules in religion. Like the Moslims
not eating pork and demand animals to be killed without being sedated.
Very few seem to wonder whether these rules still have value in a
modern society where food hygiene is way better.

Last month my grandfather asked the doctors to end his suffering.
After carefull consideration they decided to grant his wish. If there
is one thing I've learned from how my all of my grandparents passed
away is that becoming very old is not some holy grail or a pot of gold
at the end of the rainbow. I didn't like the idea ofcourse but I could
understand his desire so I did not ask him to reconsider. It still is
very strange to say goodbye to someone who will die shortly
afterwards.


I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

The problem is that the bible never got updated. Remember that in the
old days most people didn't get much older than 35. Most died quickly
of diseases, wars or hard work. At old age your body slowly shuts down
organ by organ. Some organ failures like the kidneys cause a very slow
death (I'm talking months here!).

Life is what you make of it, but if you have nothing to begin with
then there is no life at all.


You mean abortion with that? Ever looked at an ultrasound before "legal"
abortion deadline? I have, I design part of those machines.

I'm sure the people who set the legal limit looked at all the facts
(and images) and made a well informed decision.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 08/22/2011 11:08 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:

Phil Hobbs<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.

Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity

Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!

And its not limited to NL and Belgium:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HOUSE+OF+HORROR%3B+100+set+to+sue+over+abuse+at+Goldenbridge+orphanage.-a060662525
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53545205/Torture-Assassinations-Vaccine-Trials-Child-Trafficking-Conducted-By-Nuns-Around-The-World

Right now its dinner time over here but I suddenly lost my appetite!

I'd certainly have had to be asleep to miss it, especially since it came
out in 2002 in the US. Nor is it limited to the Church--schoolteachers,
for instance, have a far worse record, at least over here.

As a Dutchman, if you really want something to turn your stomach, try
investigating the origins of all those trafficked slave women in the red
light district of Amsterdam. IIRC about 4 out of 5 were trafficked from
Russia and eastern Europe, and they suffer rape and worse, continually,
until they're too sick or too worn out to be worth anything any more.
So much for enlightened secularism.

However, people are quite right to hold the Church to a higher standard,
and whatever others may do, there's no excuse whatever for victimizing
children, nor for covering up for those who have done so.

That's really the point--it's the corruption of the fallen human heart
that is the disease that Christ gave His life to cure, one heart at a
time. The world is so desperately corrupt that God had to come and die
to redeem it.

The Good News is that He has come, and we can be cleansed and forgiven,
and have eternal life as His free gift. All we have to do is open our
hands and accept it. But of course that requires putting down some of
the other things we're holding.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Joerg]

Nico Coesel wrote:

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.
Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.
Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity

Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!

Yeah, so now the arguments run out and you try to find a hair in the
soup. Sure there are sinful people in a church. If anyone in a church
claims to be without sin, run, because he or she is lying.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

Nico Coesel wrote:

Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Nico Coesel wrote:
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
It's not your foundations that I'm worried about, it's the foundations
of the science that you - indirectly - rely on to make your money. If
your sub-contradtors were to reject experimental evidence because they
thought that the results didn't fit with their - say, anti-abortion -
theology you could eventually find yourself in serious trouble with
the FDA.

For the record, I am against abortion and if someone wanted me to work
on some device that is used in that area I will refuse. It is my right
to do so.
Perhaps, but given a certain situation you may choose different. There
are many grey areas when it comes to these sort of decisions. The
bottom line is that you are in no position to choose what is best for
someone else.

I didn't say that. I said I am personally against it. So, naturally, I
wish my tax Dollars not be used for that either. If someone commits a
sin it is not up to me to judge them but it is up to me not to support
that. Just like I do not support free drug use.

I wish the neighbours would think the same They are on holiday and
from the smell it seems their kids smoke a kilo of pot each day.

Watch out for them. One day "friends" will come over and bring some
other stuff. "Hey, try this, gives you a much better buzz". From there
it'll all be downhill, and fast.

Maybe their parents are not competent enough? It's sad. Reason I brought
it up and will never be for free drug use are all tthe stuff I witnessed
while living in the Netherlands. People whove fried their brains out and
all that. But the worst was the son of a woman in her 50's. One day she
got the call, that they found his bloated body in a canal in Amsterdam.

Of course there will always be triage type situations where there are
only two choices, between the yet unborn's survival and the mother's
survival. That's very different. What I meant was "doing it" and then,
whoops, "got to get rid of it". That is a grave sin.

I believe that labeling things as a sin usually ends up making the
wrong choices by not considering the circumstances. One of my former
teachers (a former priest) had an interesting example. One of his
parishioners had been living with his sister all his life. He was
afraid that he would not go to heaven because of that. My former
teacher told him that this sin would be forgiven because its not THAT
serious. His motivation was simple: true love between two adults can
never be wrong.

He should read the bible again. It clearly spells out what is sin and
what isn't. And that we have forgiveness if only we ask for it. Yup,
also for the gal who had an abortion done years ago. But that doesn't
mean it wasn't a sin.

The real problem is ofcourse that the ofspring from a brother and
sister is prone to genetic defects. Much practical knowledge from
ancient times has been embedded as rules in religion. Like the Moslims
not eating pork and demand animals to be killed without being sedated.
Very few seem to wonder whether these rules still have value in a
modern society where food hygiene is way better.

That is because they do not properly recognize Jesus and the New Testament.

Last month my grandfather asked the doctors to end his suffering.
After carefull consideration they decided to grant his wish. If there
is one thing I've learned from how my all of my grandparents passed
away is that becoming very old is not some holy grail or a pot of gold
at the end of the rainbow. I didn't like the idea ofcourse but I could
understand his desire so I did not ask him to reconsider. It still is
very strange to say goodbye to someone who will die shortly
afterwards.

I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

The problem is that the bible never got updated. ...

I sure hope nobody will ever muck around with it. It is God's word and
not supposed to be "updated" by us.

... Remember that in the
old days most people didn't get much older than 35. Most died quickly
of diseases, wars or hard work. At old age your body slowly shuts down
organ by organ. Some organ failures like the kidneys cause a very slow
death (I'm talking months here!).

They had similar issues to deal with. Read about Paul's "thorn in the
side" and about his eyesight failing. Yet he never ever thought about
ending his life. Remember Bonhoeffer? Cyanide pills were handed out in
his group in case the Nazis would catch and torture them. He refused to
carry a cyanide pill.

Life is what you make of it, but if you have nothing to begin with
then there is no life at all.

You mean abortion with that? Ever looked at an ultrasound before "legal"
abortion deadline? I have, I design part of those machines.

I'm sure the people who set the legal limit looked at all the facts
(and images) and made a well informed decision.

No, they did not. IMHO they condoned murder, plain and simple. "Oh, you
in there, you may have a heartbeat but you are too small so we have
deemed you unworthy of being called a human being". It's sickening.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Nico Coesel]

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 11:08 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.

Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.

Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity

Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!

And its not limited to NL and Belgium:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HOUSE+OF+HORROR%3B+100+set+to+sue+over+abuse+at+Goldenbridge+orphanage.-a060662525
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53545205/Torture-Assassinations-Vaccine-Trials-Child-Trafficking-Conducted-By-Nuns-Around-The-World

Right now its dinner time over here but I suddenly lost my appetite!


I'd certainly have had to be asleep to miss it, especially since it came
out in 2002 in the US. Nor is it limited to the Church--schoolteachers,
for instance, have a far worse record, at least over here.

As a Dutchman, if you really want something to turn your stomach, try
investigating the origins of all those trafficked slave women in the red
light district of Amsterdam. IIRC about 4 out of 5 were trafficked from
Russia and eastern Europe, and they suffer rape and worse, continually,
until they're too sick or too worn out to be worth anything any more.

Well, if you want to see unhappy women you should go to the red-light
district. However, your information is a bit outdated. Many laws and
regulations have been put in effect to minimize the possibility of
human trafficking and enslavement. It is very difficult to get a
permit to open a sex-club (aka massage salon). Even the well known
Yab-Yum has been closed down by the local authorities because there
where rumours the owners had ties with the criminal circuit.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Nico Coesel]

Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.
Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.
Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity

Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!


Yeah, so now the arguments run out and you try to find a hair in the
soup. Sure there are sinful people in a church. If anyone in a church
claims to be without sin, run, because he or she is lying.

I'm just proving that Phil's statement is false. There is no argueing
about that. There is wrong everywhere but the way the church tries to
cover things up is beyond sickening.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------