Super duper hype fast FET driver?

On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
[...]

If I'd needed a quiet lab place I'd find something in the outbacks of
Alabama or similar states. Then you are neither bothered by RF fields
nor by biz-hostile politicians.
On the other hand, the chances of being able to hire locally resident
expert help wouldn't be that great.
Near Huntsville? You've got to be kidding ...
The University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) has a certain fame amongst
people who are persuaded by the evidence for anthropogenic global warming.
Two of the researchers there - Spencer and Christy - were a bit slow to
correct their satellite data for orbital decay, and for a while their
uncorrected figures deviated from the predictions of the climate models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_temperature_measurements
Roy Spencer is a card-carrying fundamentalist, and John Christy has spent
time as a bi-vocatiinal mission-pastor. This may - in part - explain why
they are two of the nine top climate scientists (out of the top 300) who
aren't persuaded by the  evidence for anthropogenic global warming. Maybe
they think a loving God couldn't be that mean.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Roy_Spencer
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_R._Christy
Their kind of expertise can't entirely be relied on
You seem to be rather desperate to get yet another AGW debate going,
aren't you?

Far from it. It was just a handy fact to drop on krw in reaction to
him calling me ignorant, which counts as gratuitous abuse in my book.

So why did you do it in response to my post? Not that I'd mind, just
curious.
It was purely in reponse to krw's post. I didn't make the connection
between Alabama and the Univeristy of Alabama at Huntsville until I
needed a club to beat krw over the head with.

Forget it, since climategate nobody is interested much anymore.

Climategate just illustrated that climate scientists get upset when
some denialist saboteur manages to smuggle a totally inadequate paper
into the peer-reviewed literature. When it turned out that the action
editor had ignored four peer reviews telling him that the paper was
crap, and the publisher refused to dump the - denialist - action
editor, most of the editorial board of the journal resinged in
protest.

The denialist lobby seized on the e-mails that covered the nuts and
bolts of the University of East Anglia finding out what had been done
and telling people about it, as if it was some sort of evil
conspiracy, when in fact it was just the peer-review mechanism in
error-correction mode.

It was just one more denialist campaign to persuade the general public
to distrust good scientific information which doesn't happen to suit
the financial interests of the fossil-carbon extraction industry. The
fact that you haven't realised that climategate was pure denialist
propaganda is a tribute to the effectiveness of the propaganda machine
- and a worrying indicator of the effectiveness of paid advertising in
moulding public opinion.

Read some of the more juicy emails again. Have you forgotten? Or purged
from your mind because it doesn't jibe with your mantra? It couldn't
have gotten any more damaging than that (for warmingists).
I've read the e-mails, and Fred Pearce's book about the affair - "The
Climate Files"

http://transitionculture.org/2010/07/29/book-review-the-climate-files-by-fred-pearce/

which - sadly - shows up the fact that Fred Peearce isn't
scientifically trained and doesn't appreciate the extent to which
scientists are trained to protect the integrity of the peer-reviewed
literature, and is consequently critical of the - entirely justified -
vigour of their response when it was contaminated by pseudo-scientific
crap. It still makes it perfectly clear that the scientists involved
weren't falsifying their results, or doing anything improper, though
they certainly didn't like being persecuted by frivolous and malicious
"freedom of information" demands from denialsts trawling for yet more
propaganda-fodder.

My copy of the book is back in Nijmegen, so I can't give you chapter
and verse.

BTW, it's not a university that matters, it's the employers that are
already in the area.

And the potential employees that they've got to work with.

                             ... And they are Baptists - perhaps not
as sincerely Baptist as the inhabitants of Urk are Calvinist, but still
pretty inflexible - so you'd run the risk of being rejected as a
schismatic Lutheran.
Baptists and Lutherans get along quite well, and I love their choirs..
They can make the rafters shake.
Unfortunately, that kind of belief can gnaw at the foundations as well as
shaking the rafters.
My faith is my foundation and it is unshakeable. Nothing you can do
about that :)

It's not your foundations that I'm worried about, it's the foundations
of the science that you - indirectly - rely on to make your money. If
your sub-contradtors were to reject experimental evidence because they
thought that the results didn't fit with their - say, anti-abortion -
theology you could eventually find yourself in serious trouble with
the FDA.

For the record, I am against abortion and if someone wanted me to work
on some device that is used in that area I will refuse. It is my right
to do so.
Absolutely. But you aren't allowed to lie about yours results or be
dilatory in collecting them just because they might lead to - say - a
better alternative to dilation and curretage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_curettage

which does seem to be roughly equivalent to what Christy and Spencer
did - or rather failed to do when they should have done.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
[...]

If I'd needed a quiet lab place I'd find something in the outbacks of
Alabama or similar states. Then you are neither bothered by RF fields
nor by biz-hostile politicians.
On the other hand, the chances of being able to hire locally resident
expert help wouldn't be that great.
Near Huntsville? You've got to be kidding ...
The University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) has a certain fame amongst
people who are persuaded by the evidence for anthropogenic global warming.
Two of the researchers there - Spencer and Christy - were a bit slow to
correct their satellite data for orbital decay, and for a while their
uncorrected figures deviated from the predictions of the climate models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_temperature_measurements
Roy Spencer is a card-carrying fundamentalist, and John Christy has spent
time as a bi-vocatiinal mission-pastor. This may - in part - explain why
they are two of the nine top climate scientists (out of the top 300) who
aren't persuaded by the  evidence for anthropogenic global warming. Maybe
they think a loving God couldn't be that mean.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Roy_Spencer
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_R._Christy
Their kind of expertise can't entirely be relied on
You seem to be rather desperate to get yet another AGW debate going,
aren't you?

Far from it. It was just a handy fact to drop on krw in reaction to
him calling me ignorant, which counts as gratuitous abuse in my book.

So why did you do it in response to my post? Not that I'd mind, just
curious.

It was purely in reponse to krw's post. I didn't make the connection
between Alabama and the Univeristy of Alabama at Huntsville until I
needed a club to beat krw over the head with.

Forget it, since climategate nobody is interested much anymore.

Climategate just illustrated that climate scientists get upset when
some denialist saboteur manages to smuggle a totally inadequate paper
into the peer-reviewed literature. When it turned out that the action
editor had ignored four peer reviews telling him that the paper was
crap, and the publisher refused to dump the - denialist - action
editor, most of the editorial board of the journal resinged in
protest.

The denialist lobby seized on the e-mails that covered the nuts and
bolts of the University of East Anglia finding out what had been done
and telling people about it, as if it was some sort of evil
conspiracy, when in fact it was just the peer-review mechanism in
error-correction mode.

It was just one more denialist campaign to persuade the general public
to distrust good scientific information which doesn't happen to suit
the financial interests of the fossil-carbon extraction industry. The
fact that you haven't realised that climategate was pure denialist
propaganda is a tribute to the effectiveness of the propaganda machine
- and a worrying indicator of the effectiveness of paid advertising in
moulding public opinion.

Read some of the more juicy emails again. Have you forgotten? Or purged
from your mind because it doesn't jibe with your mantra? It couldn't
have gotten any more damaging than that (for warmingists).

I've read the e-mails, and Fred Pearce's book about the affair - "The
Climate Files"

http://transitionculture.org/2010/07/29/book-review-the-climate-files-by-fred-pearce/

which - sadly - shows up the fact that Fred Peearce isn't
scientifically trained and doesn't appreciate the extent to which
scientists are trained to protect the integrity of the peer-reviewed
literature, and is consequently critical of the - entirely justified -
vigour of their response when it was contaminated by pseudo-scientific
crap. It still makes it perfectly clear that the scientists involved
weren't falsifying their results, or doing anything improper, though
they certainly didn't like being persecuted by frivolous and malicious
"freedom of information" demands from denialsts trawling for yet more
propaganda-fodder.

My copy of the book is back in Nijmegen, so I can't give you chapter
and verse.

BTW, it's not a university that matters, it's the employers that are
already in the area.

And the potential employees that they've got to work with.

                             ... And they are Baptists - perhaps not
as sincerely Baptist as the inhabitants of Urk are Calvinist, but still
pretty inflexible - so you'd run the risk of being rejected as a
schismatic Lutheran.
Baptists and Lutherans get along quite well, and I love their choirs.
They can make the rafters shake.
Unfortunately, that kind of belief can gnaw at the foundations as well as
shaking the rafters.
My faith is my foundation and it is unshakeable. Nothing you can do
about that :)

It's not your foundations that I'm worried about, it's the foundations
of the science that you - indirectly - rely on to make your money. If
your sub-contradtors were to reject experimental evidence because they
thought that the results didn't fit with their - say, anti-abortion -
theology you could eventually find yourself in serious trouble with
the FDA.

For the record, I am against abortion and if someone wanted me to work
on some device that is used in that area I will refuse. It is my right
to do so.

Absolutely. But you aren't allowed to lie about yours results or be
dilatory in collecting them just because they might lead to - say - a
better alternative to dilation and curretage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_curettage

which does seem to be roughly equivalent to what Christy and Spencer
did - or rather failed to do when they should have done.
143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John
 
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
<snip>

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

As soon as the thread gets off topic, he loses this gratification, and
throws his rattle out of the cot. What a pity. I'd feel a certain
sympathy for his feelings of deprivation, if he didn't get so
downright nasty when he's feeling deprived.

One that needs flushing.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.
John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:39:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.
You think I faked the waveforms? Or the company? Or the awards?

As soon as the thread gets off topic, he loses this gratification, and
throws his rattle out of the cot. What a pity. I'd feel a certain
sympathy for his feelings of deprivation, if he didn't get so
downright nasty when he's feeling deprived.
If you ever went off-topic with anything new, it wouldn't be so bad.
But you don't. You pick the same old things, and you never point out
anything interesting or useful or funny, you only drone out insults.

You aren't interested in anything but yourself... and what a
depressing subject.

Go back to your Baxandall circuit; you might get it to actually
oscillate in another decade or so.

John
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.


John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
Have you tried any pfets?

I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

John
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
If you find a useful complement to the 2N7002 please let me know. Thanks!

...Jim Thompson

[On the Road, in New York]
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

Have you tried any pfets?
I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.


I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.

Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

If you find a useful complement to the 2N7002 please let me know. Thanks!
Oh I will. But don't hold your breath :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

Have you tried any pfets?


I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.


I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.


A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
Hell, just some cheap NPN arrays would be really nice. I can get cheap FET
arrays but not bipolar, anymore. Cheap current source/sinks would be nice,
too.

Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.
 
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
Have you tried any pfets?

I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.


I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.

Hell, just some cheap NPN arrays would be really nice. I can get cheap FET
arrays but not bipolar, anymore. ...

Voila:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FF/FFB3904.pdf

At around 50c not very cheap. If it needs to be cheaper you've got to
shop in Asia.

http://www.kexin.com.cn/pdf/KC846S.pdf
http://www.rohm.com/products/discrete/transistor/complex/#03

All those aren't fast though.


... Cheap current source/sinks would be nice, too.
That'll be a challenge, I don't think there's a market for those.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:09:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
Have you tried any pfets?

I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.


I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.

Hell, just some cheap NPN arrays would be really nice. I can get cheap FET
arrays but not bipolar, anymore. ...


Voila:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FF/FFB3904.pdf

At around 50c not very cheap. If it needs to be cheaper you've got to
shop in Asia.
$.50 wouldn't make me too happy (FETs arrays I'm using are $.10) but I could
make it work. HOWEVER, "NPN Multi-Chip General Purpose Amplifier" says it
all.

http://www.kexin.com.cn/pdf/KC846S.pdf
No useful specs.

http://www.rohm.com/products/discrete/transistor/complex/#03
"Very small package with two transistors."

All those aren't fast though.
Me? I don't need fast. ;-)

... Cheap current source/sinks would be nice, too.


That'll be a challenge, I don't think there's a market for those.
Evidently there isn't a market for transistor arrays, either. Perhaps not
even a 2N7002 with a sex change. ;-)
 
On 08/21/2011 12:02 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.


John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

Have you tried any pfets?

I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

John
Because the hole mobility is too low--holes in GaAs weigh a ton.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

Have you tried any pfets?


I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.
My mental model of a mosfet is an infinitely fast piece of silicon
with some capacitance and wire bonds. So the limit on fast switching
is mostly how hard you can drive the gate. Most fets can switch way
faster than the datasheets suggest if you slam them hard enough.
Unfortunately, my 600 ps mystery driver is only good for 6.5 volts
maybe, which that will drive a 2N7002 to an amp or so, fast, but pfets
usually need more drive to turn on hard. But I bet there's one out
there somewhere.

A little DC pre-bias, just below threshold, can buy another volt or
two of enhancement.

I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.


A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
My experience using bjt's as this sort of fast switch has been
disappointing. I even tried some 45 GHz SiGe parts, and they switched
slow. Mosfets are much better, phemts are radically better.


Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.
Yeah. I'd experiment with finding a 2N7002 complement. Now you've got
me interested.

I have the gear (pulsers, drivers, sampling scope) to experiment, if
you come up with some candidate parts.

John
 
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:14:02 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/21/2011 12:02 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.


John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

Have you tried any pfets?

I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

John



Because the hole mobility is too low--holes in GaAs weigh a ton.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Isaac Asimov had the fix for that. He used positrons.

John
 
On 08/21/2011 03:08 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:14:02 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/21/2011 12:02 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg<inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.


John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

Have you tried any pfets?

I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

John



Because the hole mobility is too low--holes in GaAs weigh a ton.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Isaac Asimov had the fix for that. He used positrons.

John
Small amounts of thiotimoline would have fixed your problem with the
chronologically-challenged customer, too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
It's not your foundations that I'm worried about, it's the foundations
of the science that you - indirectly - rely on to make your money. If
your sub-contradtors were to reject experimental evidence because they
thought that the results didn't fit with their - say, anti-abortion -
theology you could eventually find yourself in serious trouble with
the FDA.


For the record, I am against abortion and if someone wanted me to work
on some device that is used in that area I will refuse. It is my right
to do so.
Perhaps, but given a certain situation you may choose different. There
are many grey areas when it comes to these sort of decisions. The
bottom line is that you are in no position to choose what is best for
someone else.

Last month my grandfather asked the doctors to end his suffering.
After carefull consideration they decided to grant his wish. If there
is one thing I've learned from how my all of my grandparents passed
away is that becoming very old is not some holy grail or a pot of gold
at the end of the rainbow. I didn't like the idea ofcourse but I could
understand his desire so I did not ask him to reconsider. It still is
very strange to say goodbye to someone who will die shortly
afterwards.

Life is what you make of it, but if you have nothing to begin with
then there is no life at all.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
Have you tried any pfets?

I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.

My mental model of a mosfet is an infinitely fast piece of silicon
with some capacitance and wire bonds. So the limit on fast switching
is mostly how hard you can drive the gate. Most fets can switch way
faster than the datasheets suggest if you slam them hard enough.
Unfortunately, my 600 ps mystery driver is only good for 6.5 volts
maybe, which that will drive a 2N7002 to an amp or so, fast, but pfets
usually need more drive to turn on hard. But I bet there's one out
there somewhere.

A little DC pre-bias, just below threshold, can buy another volt or
two of enhancement.


I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.

My experience using bjt's as this sort of fast switch has been
disappointing. I even tried some 45 GHz SiGe parts, and they switched
slow. Mosfets are much better, phemts are radically better.
RF transistors are also a problem if they can't get to an amp or more.
Usually you'll need that to swish charges around in a capacitive load.
LDMOS can pulse nicely but the price tag is usually prohibitive. NPX
isn't very useful there either because they won't release SPICE model.
But PolyFet in Camarillo does.


Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.

Yeah. I'd experiment with finding a 2N7002 complement. Now you've got
me interested.

I have the gear (pulsers, drivers, sampling scope) to experiment, if
you come up with some candidate parts.
This one could be a contender but it's Infineon and seems close to
unobtanium, in which case it would not do too much good:

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/BSA223SP_Rev1.3.pdf?folderId=db3a304412b407950112b408e8c90004&fileId=db3a304412b407950112b42ae5834414

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:09:16 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.
John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

John posts actual scope plots. So when he says that a transition happens
in under one nanosecond and proves it with a scope plot I don't know
what you mean by "implausible". Just because some people or datasheets
say it can't be done does not mean it can't be done. Also, he can show
the proof in revenue Dollars.

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
Have you tried any pfets?

I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.


I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
Hell, just some cheap NPN arrays would be really nice. I can get cheap FET
arrays but not bipolar, anymore. ...

Voila:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FF/FFB3904.pdf

At around 50c not very cheap. If it needs to be cheaper you've got to
shop in Asia.

$.50 wouldn't make me too happy (FETs arrays I'm using are $.10) but I could
make it work. HOWEVER, "NPN Multi-Chip General Purpose Amplifier" says it
all.
Well, you didn't say monolithic :)


http://www.kexin.com.cn/pdf/KC846S.pdf

No useful specs.
That is normal with many Asian suppliers, got to get used to it and test
a lot for yourself. You can sometimes obtain additional data from them
but sometimes you'd have to be married to the CEO's cousin's daughter or
something like that.


http://www.rohm.com/products/discrete/transistor/complex/#03

"Very small package with two transistors."

All those aren't fast though.

Me? I don't need fast. ;-)
Lucky you :)

Almost all my stuff is RF nowadays.


... Cheap current source/sinks would be nice, too.

That'll be a challenge, I don't think there's a market for those.

Evidently there isn't a market for transistor arrays, either. Perhaps not
even a 2N7002 with a sex change. ;-)

No, there sure ain't :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
Nico Coesel wrote:
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Bill Sloman wrote:
It's not your foundations that I'm worried about, it's the foundations
of the science that you - indirectly - rely on to make your money. If
your sub-contradtors were to reject experimental evidence because they
thought that the results didn't fit with their - say, anti-abortion -
theology you could eventually find yourself in serious trouble with
the FDA.

For the record, I am against abortion and if someone wanted me to work
on some device that is used in that area I will refuse. It is my right
to do so.

Perhaps, but given a certain situation you may choose different. There
are many grey areas when it comes to these sort of decisions. The
bottom line is that you are in no position to choose what is best for
someone else.
I didn't say that. I said I am personally against it. So, naturally, I
wish my tax Dollars not be used for that either. If someone commits a
sin it is not up to me to judge them but it is up to me not to support
that. Just like I do not support free drug use.

Of course there will always be triage type situations where there are
only two choices, between the yet unborn's survival and the mother's
survival. That's very different. What I meant was "doing it" and then,
whoops, "got to get rid of it". That is a grave sin.


Last month my grandfather asked the doctors to end his suffering.
After carefull consideration they decided to grant his wish. If there
is one thing I've learned from how my all of my grandparents passed
away is that becoming very old is not some holy grail or a pot of gold
at the end of the rainbow. I didn't like the idea ofcourse but I could
understand his desire so I did not ask him to reconsider. It still is
very strange to say goodbye to someone who will die shortly
afterwards.
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.


Life is what you make of it, but if you have nothing to begin with
then there is no life at all.
You mean abortion with that? Ever looked at an ultrasound before "legal"
abortion deadline? I have, I design part of those machines.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 

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