politics, sorry, but this is great...

S

server

Guest
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 19:20:45 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
driven away a few really good and candid people.

Only technically illiterate people who cannot press the \"Ignore Thread\" key.

Is Win Hill technically illiterate?



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
J

John Doe

Guest
With the minor exception of improperly labeled off-topic posts, lately
this group is easy to read.

Is there some soft and fuzzy place real engineers can post to get help
with workplace engineering problems? You know, like someplace you have to
pay (at least for a forum subscription), and/or to provide engineering
credentials, for help?

Sometimes people run off to free Internet forums for this and that, but
they come back here to whine about censorship. Maybe that problem exists
in paid-for forums too, since they are all moderated.

Would be REALLY great if Internet forums would adopt mutual blocking. But
oh well.






jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 19:20:45 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
driven away a few really good and candid people.

Only technically illiterate people who cannot press the \"Ignore Thread\" key.


Is Win Hill technically illiterate?
 
A

Anthony William Sloman

Guest
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:08:35 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
On 16/01/2022 16:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
Pom...@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.

You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet? The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

I design in public; actual problems, sims, circuits, parts, boards,
boxes.

John Larkin doesn\'t seem to design anything. He does evolve stuff, and boasts about here from time to time

> It makes for conversation and idea sharing. It helps me think.

John Larkin doesn\'t indulge in conversation about his circuits - he presents them in the expectation that they will be admired, and that\'s the only kind of \"idea sharing\" that he has in mind. If the remote prospect of being admired helps him think, I\'m all for it - he needs all the help he can get.

> I have met some cool people.

Who praised him more generously than he deserved because that\'s how you get him to do what you want.

It\'s not ego; I just like electronics. When have I boasted about being
much better than everyone else? Cite? Besides, it\'s not true.

There was a time when you claimed that your designs were insanely good. The \"insanity\" was more plausible than the \"good\" - the stuff you exhibited here was tediously pedestrian

> Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have driven away a few really good and candid people.

Really? Name one?

> I\'m not so much better than other engineers, merely still here and talking about electronics.

Mostly right, but John Larkin mostly doesn\'t talk about electronics.

Most people here keep a lot of details to themselves, presenting
under-specified problems that they want help with, when they have no
reason to do that.

Newbies don\'t appreciate how much context they need to present before they can get useful help.

A lot of the art of good design is in seeing the problem as a whole, and that is a skill that takes a while to develop. They aren\'t recitent from malice, but rather because they don\'t appreciate that the extra information would be useful.

Only a few people are open and generous about the
topic here, electronic design. I wonder why so many people are so
secretive, even amateurs who have no employer NDAs or anything.

It takes more effort to write a longer post. If you don\'t appreciate that the information would be useful, you won\'t bother to post it.

> If I post a sim or a schematic or a PCB layout, why would you think that is boasting? Weird.

Because you react as if you expect to praised, rather than like somebody interested in starting a discussion.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
A

Anthony William Sloman

Guest
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 9:34:10 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
With the minor exception of improperly labeled off-topic posts, lately
this group is easy to read.

Of course John Doe does post a lot of badly formatted off-topic posts, quite a few of them about the moral defects of transgender athletes.

Is there some soft and fuzzy place real engineers can post to get help
with workplace engineering problems? You know, like someplace you have to
pay (at least for a forum subscription), and/or to provide engineering
credentials, for help?

The world is full of consultants who will offer help at a fixed hourly rate.

Sometimes people run off to free Internet forums for this and that, but
they come back here to whine about censorship. Maybe that problem exists
in paid-for forums too, since they are all moderated.

Would be REALLY great if Internet forums would adopt mutual blocking. But oh well.

Any useful form of blocking would exclude John Doe - he really is a useless troll.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
J

John Doe

Guest
And speaking of... Bozo Bill Sloman would be a GREAT example
of mutual blocking\'s effectiveness...
 
A

Anthony William Sloman

Guest
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:09:17 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
On 1/17/2022 12:09 PM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

<restoring some of the context that John Doe snipped>

Any useful form of blocking would exclude John Doe - he really is a useless troll

And speaking of... Bill Sloman would be a GREAT example of mutual blocking\'s effectiveness...

John Doe does have these persistent delusions.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
A

Anthony William Sloman

Guest
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:14:07 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:08:35 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
On 16/01/2022 16:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard <Pom...@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinux...@decadence..org wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

<giant unmarked snip by John Doe>

> With mutual blocking, Bill Sloman would have very few people to troll.

Since I don\'t \"troll\" anybody, I wouldn\'t find this a problem.

> It would open the group and find nobody there! I certainly wouldn\'t be, it would solve its problems with me in a heartbeat.

John Doe hasn\'t worked out how such a system could work. He\'s even less aware that any system that excluded people that most other posters didn\'t value would exclude him a lot faster than it would exclude me. Usernet has been around for more than twenty years now. Moderated groups are an attempt to keep people out, but they don\'t last - it depends on finding fair moderators, which only works in the sort term. More complicate schemes are conceivable, but nobody seems to have got one to work

> If only!!!

My thought exactly.

<I\'ve snipped the rest of his comments and haven\'t bothered to put back all of the thread information that he had snipped>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
B

bitrex

Guest
On 1/15/22 9:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
===============================

Not so. Some people are afraid of most everything.

** Called neurotics.

I know people who are terrified of this latest virus.

** Sensible fear.

Over on the sub-reddit Covid19Positive it\'s possible to read the
first-hand accounts from users who figured the virus was no big deal,
and ended up getting sick.

And then still figured it was no big deal, at least for a while until
they started getting even sicker, not improving, and eventually started
looking for answers from anyone they could to questions like \"When will
I start getting better\" or \"What meds can I take/what special thing can
I demand they do at the hospital that will improve my condition\" or \"I\'m
not going to die, am I?\"

And others sometimes try to formulate some upbeat responses but nobody
really has any good answers; the users in question seem unable to
process the concept that their fate is now truly in the hands of
whatever God they believe in.

It makes for sobering reading, if they weren\'t afraid before they are by
that point.
 
D

David Brown

Guest
On 16/01/2022 20:17, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:32:57 AM UTC-5, Pomegranate Bastard
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
Pom...@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote
in news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid
shit, eh? You should have somebody sew that upper anus
shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real
work, on real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary
designs with random strangers on the internet? The only people
here who talk about their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with
that - it is not an insult of any kind), retirees (again, nothing
wrong with that) and people who boast about how much better they
are than everyone else, despite a complete absence of any kind of
evidence or justification.
Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

+1

However, anyone posting to this group and complaining about others,
has their own psychological issues and that includes me. It\'s like
yelling into a well. No one hears you but yourself and the trolls...
trolls... trolls.

It is certainly not a group where you can expect to convince people to
change their minds! But sometimes you hear other opinions about
different topics - it\'s important to listen to arguments from the other
side (whatever the topic).
 
R

Rick C

Guest
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 19:20:45 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
alway...@message.header> wrote:

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
driven away a few really good and candid people.

If that is a problem, why do you continue to do so much of it??? Either stop doing it or stop complaining about it.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Guest
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet? The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too. It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot. I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
D

David Brown

Guest
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


  You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.

One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'. In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others. The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.


I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
 The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.

Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Guest
David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


  You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'. In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others. The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

That\'s true, but it\'s a very different statement from the preceding.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
 The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Could well be. A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them. \"Technical debt\", Venezuela style.

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong. (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he\'ll confirm it.) Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so. He\'s one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with. I\'m hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Maybe you move in more rarefied circles.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
D

David Brown

Guest
On 17/01/2022 19:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


   You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real
work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'.  In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others.  The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

That\'s true, but it\'s a very different statement from the preceding.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
  The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

 From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Could well be.  A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them.  \"Technical debt\", Venezuela style.

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions.  Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important.  (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong.  (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he\'ll confirm it.)  Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)

Sure - I don\'t think the numbers are realistic (even if it were possible
to quantify them). My point is that most of the content of good designs
is not actually particularly new or exciting - a little bit of new idea
can go a long way. (And I don\'t disagree with your suggestion that a
lot of designs are neither good nor innovative!).

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so.  He\'s one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with.  I\'m hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Maybe you move in more rarefied circles.

I have no reason to suspect that John Larkin is /not/ a good designer.
I simply see no reason to place any weight in his own opinions of
himself or his views on engineering. It is entirely reasonable to
suppose he is very good at a narrow and specialised field while being so
ignorant, biased or confused in so many other topics that turn up in
this newsgroup.
 
S

server

Guest
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 18:17:01 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


  You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'. In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others. The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.


I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
 The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

I never said anything like that. I design circuits, and most ideas
have no doubt been discovered by someone else somewhere first, and
usually I have no way of knowing.

I occasionally come up with something original, because that\'s what I
do, and I often share it here. That seems to annoy you.

I need to measure some heat sink temperatures. If I use a really dinky
(cheap and available) FPGA with no ADC, I think I can digitize a
thermistor with two external passive parts. Add a 4051 and digitize
eight.

Wanna play?





--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
S

server

Guest
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 20:17:03 +0100, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 17/01/2022 19:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


   You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real
work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'.  In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others.  The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

That\'s true, but it\'s a very different statement from the preceding.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
  The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

 From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Could well be.  A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them.  \"Technical debt\", Venezuela style.

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions.  Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important.  (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong.  (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he\'ll confirm it.)  Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)


Sure - I don\'t think the numbers are realistic (even if it were possible
to quantify them). My point is that most of the content of good designs
is not actually particularly new or exciting - a little bit of new idea
can go a long way. (And I don\'t disagree with your suggestion that a
lot of designs are neither good nor innovative!).

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so.  He\'s one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with.  I\'m hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Maybe you move in more rarefied circles.


I have no reason to suspect that John Larkin is /not/ a good designer.
I simply see no reason to place any weight in his own opinions of
himself or his views on engineering. It is entirely reasonable to
suppose he is very good at a narrow and specialised field while being so
ignorant, biased or confused in so many other topics that turn up in
this newsgroup.

Your emotional incentives must be really weird. And poorly aligned to
doing electronic design, which requires curiosity and agility and
humor.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
S

server

Guest
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 13:59:49 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


  You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'. In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others. The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

That\'s true, but it\'s a very different statement from the preceding.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
 The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Could well be. A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them. \"Technical debt\", Venezuela style.

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong. (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he\'ll confirm it.) Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so. He\'s one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with. I\'m hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Bring proof of vax or they won\'t let you in.

We spent an hour in San Diego with RS and DR, and it was a highlight
of my career. Putting smart and willing people together can be magic.

Then I got to thinking about discriminators. The Constant Fraction
Discriminator is superficially appealing and has, I suspect,
brainwashed generations of engineers and scientists.

I could show you what we finally did. Maybe you can explain it to me.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye
 
R

Rick C

Guest
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 3:36:10 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
On 16/01/2022 20:17, Rick C wrote:
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:32:57 AM UTC-5, Pomegranate Bastard
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
Pom...@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote
in news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid
shit, eh? You should have somebody sew that upper anus
shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real
work, on real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary
designs with random strangers on the internet? The only people
here who talk about their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with
that - it is not an insult of any kind), retirees (again, nothing
wrong with that) and people who boast about how much better they
are than everyone else, despite a complete absence of any kind of
evidence or justification.
Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

+1

However, anyone posting to this group and complaining about others,
has their own psychological issues and that includes me. It\'s like
yelling into a well. No one hears you but yourself and the trolls...
trolls... trolls.

It is certainly not a group where you can expect to convince people to
change their minds! But sometimes you hear other opinions about
different topics - it\'s important to listen to arguments from the other
side (whatever the topic).

Well, little grasshopper, if you are here to learn, there is little need to post.

The posting that happens here mostly is about ego. Or I suppose for some it is a substitute for friends. For a few it is both.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Guest
David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 19:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


   You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real
work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'.  In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others.  The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

That\'s true, but it\'s a very different statement from the preceding.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
  The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

 From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Could well be.  A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them.  \"Technical debt\", Venezuela style.

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions.  Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important.  (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong.  (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he\'ll confirm it.)  Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)


Sure - I don\'t think the numbers are realistic (even if it were possible
to quantify them). My point is that most of the content of good designs
is not actually particularly new or exciting - a little bit of new idea
can go a long way. (And I don\'t disagree with your suggestion that a
lot of designs are neither good nor innovative!).

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so.  He\'s one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with.  I\'m hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Maybe you move in more rarefied circles.


I have no reason to suspect that John Larkin is /not/ a good designer.
I simply see no reason to place any weight in his own opinions of
himself or his views on engineering. It is entirely reasonable to
suppose he is very good at a narrow and specialised field while being so
ignorant, biased or confused in so many other topics that turn up in
this newsgroup.

Well, you\'re a software guy, so I guess that settles it. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
 
P

Phil Hobbs

Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 13:59:49 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

David Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2022 15:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

On 16/01/2022 16:25, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
PommyB@aol.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsdte4jrduf6oag2o1ph@4ax.com:

Conservatives are better engineers too.


  You just can\'t stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

Several of them. They don\'t design electronics anyhow.


You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet?  The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

Precisely. Couldn\'t have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too.  It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their \'crown jewels\' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels\' actual value by a lot.  I\'ve had people tell me
\"in confidence\" things I\'d known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.


One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers\'. In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others. The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

That\'s true, but it\'s a very different statement from the preceding.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
 The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you\'d expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I\'ve seen of such \'crown jewels\',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.


Sometimes that\'s why they want to keep it so secret :)

Could well be. A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them. \"Technical debt\", Venezuela style.

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong. (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he\'ll confirm it.) Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so. He\'s one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with. I\'m hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Bring proof of vax or they won\'t let you in.

Plus booster! Next year we\'ll all have needle tracks like junkies. :(

We spent an hour in San Diego with RS and DR, and it was a highlight
of my career. Putting smart and willing people together can be magic.

Yup. Designing stuff with a few smart people at a white board is the
most fun you can have standing up. (Maybe you prefer skiing, but then
you\'re more coordinated than I am.)

IIRC that occasion involved high-frame-rate youtube videos of a water
balloon cannon that were very illuminating about the dynamics of tin
droplets. ;)

Then I got to thinking about discriminators. The Constant Fraction
Discriminator is superficially appealing and has, I suspect,
brainwashed generations of engineers and scientists.

I could show you what we finally did. Maybe you can explain it to me.

I\'d be interested. You and Joerg helped me out with a problem like that
back in, like, 2006--I needed to trigger stably on a detected laser
pulse from a not-too-stable tunable laser that produced 20-ps pulses.(*)
The energy varied by about 20% pulse-to-pulse when it was perfectly
tuned up, and more like 2:1 when it wasn\'t.

I eventually used a coax stub to differentiate the detected pulse, and
the built-in trigger functions of my 11801C sampling scope to pick the
right zero crossing.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


(*) It was a thing of beauty otherwise--a 20 Hz lamp-pumped,
frequency-tripled YAG with both active and passive modelocking, pumping
a seeded optical parametric generator (OPG), whose output was tunable
from 420 nm to 10 um, with a narrow gap near 710 nm where the
frequencies of its two output beams crossed over.

It was made by EKSPLA in Lithuania, and worked very well, especially
considering that it was 1/3 of the price of a comparable onshore brand.
Sure took a lot of laser jocking to keep it running though--previously
I\'d gone straight and been a CW guy all my life. ;)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 

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