OT: Wild Weather

Jim Thompson · Jan 5, 2005

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Nicholas O. Lindan · Jan 6, 2005

"Mark Jones" <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote

So, about that whole global warming thing...

http://ams.confex.com/ams/Annual2005/techprogram/paper_84909.htm

et. al.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

Jan 6, 2005

Global warming means more water gets evaporated from the oceans, which
in turns leads to wilder weather.

There are more specific effects, and one possible result of global
warming would be for the Gulf Stream to turn off, which might leave
most of northern Europe covered with glaciers (as it was in the last
Ice Age).

Since the U.S.is the biggest single generator of greenhouse gases, good
for 20% of the emissions from 5% of the world population, you would
seem to be taking vengeance on yourselves, and possibly getting in some
kind of pre-emptive vengeance on northern Europe.
-------------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Mike · Jan 6, 2005

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:13:24 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

...Jim Thompson

I'm not sure where the jetstream is running right now, but we're expecting
another storm here in Southern California within the next day or two. You
might have more fun this weekend.

We just had an earthquake half an hour ago... not to bad at my house, but
it might have been worse nearer the epicenter.

-- Mike --

John Stewart · Jan 6, 2005

Mike wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:13:24 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

...Jim Thompson

I'm not sure where the jetstream is running right now,

Check here-
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNationalStd.asp?loc=usa&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=SurfaceMaps&product=JetStream&prodnav=none

but we're expecting
another storm here in Southern California within the next day or two. You
might have more fun this weekend.

We just had an earthquake half an hour ago... not to bad at my house, but
it might have been worse nearer the epicenter.

-- Mike --

Jan 6, 2005

Nijmegen - where I'm living at the moment - sits on the southern
glacial morraine deposited by the Rhine when it was a glacier, back in
the last Ice Age. It isn't coastal, but it isn't all that far above sea
level either.

Arnhem - 25km to the north - sits on the northern glacial morraine, so
the Rhine as a glacier was pretty wide.
----------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

John Stewart · Jan 6, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:03:45 -0500, John Stewart
jh.stewart@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Mike wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:13:24 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

...Jim Thompson

I'm not sure where the jetstream is running right now,

Check here-
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNationalStd.asp?loc=usa&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=SurfaceMaps&product=JetStream&prodnav=none

but we're expecting
another storm here in Southern California within the next day or two. You
might have more fun this weekend.

We just had an earthquake half an hour ago... not to bad at my house, but
it might have been worse nearer the epicenter.

-- Mike --

Yep. That SW wind that then swings east is doing a number on us...
except our drought is over... the reservoirs are overflowing into the
Salt River and there's many FEET of snow in the mountains.

...Jim Thompson

Just the other day I read in the financials there is a serious drought problem all across the southwest. The article made a point
that both Lakes Mead & Powell are at all time lows. Production of power & the recreation business was said to be way down. Also,
the possibility of water rationing. Talk of importing water down the mountain chain is again on.

Will this rain be enough to get things back to normal? The photos of those lakes didn't look to good.

JLS

Mark Fergerson · Jan 6, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:24:46 -0500, Mark Jones
abuse@127.0.0.1
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

Snow in Arizona?

So, about that whole global warming thing...

Or maybe the "eurotrash" are enacting vengance against
the entire state of AZ for Jim's earlier comments?

ROTFL ;-)

The snow up north is not unusual... just the heavy
rains/tornados down
in the Phoenix area... though we DO have an occasional
_summer_
tornado... one in 1972 wiped out most of my neighborhood
in North
Scottsdale... houses all around me went down... I just
suffered
sand-blasted paint plus people's roofs in my swimming
pool :-(

Same storm that tore part of the roof off the Green
Gables restaurant at 3d avenue and Camelback and uprooted
huge trees in the neighborhood immediately north? That was
back when nobody'd admit tornadoes were possible here; the
weatherdrones of the day kept blaming microbursts (but then
they didn't have their own Doppler radar either). Also
before the current drought started; I remember much more
severe summer thunderstorms, sandstorms, and rain, and the
occasional Phoenix snowfall in winter though it didn't
"stick" very long of course.

Remember Johhny Carson talking about building a snowman
in his yard? We got Cali's leftovers that year; my midtown
yard's total snow load yielded a three-foot snowdwarf. ;&gt

Not evidence of "global warming", just local climate
returning to "normal". Just an ex-snowbird's opinion; the
drought seems to be ending.

Mark L. Fergerson

Winfield Hill · Jan 6, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote...

I'm not sure where the jetstream is running right now,
Check here-
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNationalStd.asp?loc=usa&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=SurfaceMaps&product=JetStream&prodnav=none

Right. We've been getting very weird jet-stream patterns the last
few years. Jim, I wonder, are you another one of the crowd that
doesn't believe in global warming?

Yep. That SW wind that then swings east is doing a number on us...
except our drought is over... the reservoirs are overflowing into
the Salt River and there's many FEET of snow in the mountains.

It's nice to see the Salt River running again. I had a great time
running the rapids in inner tubes twenty-five years ago. There
was a place that rents them, by one of the bridges over the river.
The Salt River canyon is thousands of feet deep at that point.

Scary stuff, specially the last rapid which threw me off the tube,
the same rapid that had wrecked a large craft a few days earlier.
With one arm still over the tube I ran the rest of the rapid (one
has no choice, once you enter the only exit is at the end) with
my legs hanging down hitting rocks, etc. Anyway, it was so much
fun I went back upstream and did it again, alone. This time I
stayed on the tube.

In an inner tube your face is only a few inches above the water,
so the waves and eddies tower many feet over you, blocking your
vision and making a very serious impression indeed. And the sound
effects are impressive as well. You go down feet first, to be able
to push off rocks you encounter. Furious hand paddling to maintain
your orientation. Now and then you go under one of the standing
waves, and when you come out you can't see, because your eyes are
covered with a thick film of water ruining your focus. Bigtime fun.

--
Thanks,
- Win

John Woodgate · Jan 6, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote
(in <l4udnWCA8sCMA0DcRVn-jQ@buckeye-express.com&gt

about 'OT: Wild
Weather', on Thu, 6 Jan 2005:

With less ice at the poles, the ocean's salt flows will slow and its
salinity will drop. Who knows what that will do?

Fewer fish with hypertension?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Jim Thompson · Jan 6, 2005

On 6 Jan 2005 12:17:53 -0800, Winfield Hill
<hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I'm not sure where the jetstream is running right now,
Check here-
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNationalStd.asp?loc=usa&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=SurfaceMaps&product=JetStream&prodnav=none

Right. We've been getting very weird jet-stream patterns the last
few years. Jim, I wonder, are you another one of the crowd that
doesn't believe in global warming?

Of course. It's just left-wing propaganda ;-) Seriously, there is
great debate in both directions. Neither side has made a
scientifically-significant argument. Personally, reviewing Arizona
weather records that go back a hundred years it appears that we are
slightly COOLER.

But I understand that you folk, stuck on the East Coast, have a lot of
acid rain to contend with. But it's not coming from Arizona. Most of
our power plants run on natural gas, plus we have one nuclear
facility. There's one big coal plant at Four Corners, but they use
scrubbers in their stacks.

Yep. That SW wind that then swings east is doing a number on us...
except our drought is over... the reservoirs are overflowing into
the Salt River and there's many FEET of snow in the mountains.

It's nice to see the Salt River running again. I had a great time
running the rapids in inner tubes twenty-five years ago.
[snip]
Bigtime fun.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

CWatters · Jan 6, 2005

"Mark Jones" <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:l4udnWCA8sCMA0DcRVn-jQ@buckeye-express.com...

This salt ends up at the equator

It goes further than that. It practically circles the globe...

Nice route map...
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/Water/deep_ocean.html&edu=high

"The water that sinks in the North Atlantic flows all the way past the
equator into the Southern Hemisphere. The water then flows past Antarctica
and into the Pacific and Indian Oceans"

Clarence_A · Jan 7, 2005

"Mark Fergerson" wrote
<snip>

Same storm that tore part of the roof off the Green
Gables restaurant at 3d avenue and Camelback

Hey, is that the SAME Green Gables Restaurant that used to be on
24th street and Thomas Road? They were one of the best in the
area!

Jan 7, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On 6 Jan 2005 12:17:53 -0800, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote...

I'm not sure where the jetstream is running right now,
Check here-

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNationalStd.asp?loc=usa&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=SurfaceMaps&product=JetStream&prodnav=none

Right. We've been getting very weird jet-stream patterns the last
few years. Jim, I wonder, are you another one of the crowd that
doesn't believe in global warming?

Of course. It's just left-wing propaganda ;-) Seriously, there is
great debate in both directions. Neither side has made a
scientifically-significant argument. Personally, reviewing Arizona
weather records that go back a hundred years it appears that we are
slightly COOLER.

Jim would seem to be a few years behind the game. The present state of
the debate is that it is generally accepted that global warming is
real. The Greenland and Antarctic ice cores collected in recent years
have provided a pretty comprehensive and convincing picture of climate
flucuations over the past few hundred thousand years, and some
indications of the mechanisms involved. The state of the weather in
Arizona over the last hundred years isn't all that relevant.

http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/climatechange_wef.html
--------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Mark Jones · Jan 6, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

...Jim Thompson

Snow in Arizona?

So, about that whole global warming thing...

Or maybe the "eurotrash" are enacting vengance against the entire
state of AZ for Jim's earlier comments?

RdM · Jan 7, 2005

So ... are you guys prepared to give this guy any credence yet?

Take your time ... it's a large site. Absorb over weeks and months ...
But just for a quick mention to the topic here:-

http://www.cheniere.org/books/ferdelance/s64.htm
http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/011304.htm

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/011504.htm
I've seen criss-cross grid patterns and unnaturally straight lines here in
clouds in NZ at times, and also a "frozen" jet trail that had me wondering.

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/020203a.htm

Those just from a search (refreshing memory) at
<http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=3811554&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=weather+engineering>

That's just in relation to to the weather discussion aspects ...

But do look at the technical papers, (download docs) and other sections at
http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html
http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/index.html

not forgetting
http://www.cheniere.org/toc2.htm which contains inter alia
http://www.cheniere.org/clouds/index.html

or even (and it's a nice java applet to start with) entering at the top at
http://www.cheniere.org
as probably intended ... and which progresses to a foreward ahead of toc.

Hope that some of you at least will take the time to consider the science.

John Woodgate · Jan 7, 2005

I read in sci.electronics.design that RdM <rdm@orcon.net.zn> wrote (in
<4fdtt0h26g8pa63svrttpacnbjiu4a2me8@4ax.com&gt

about 'OT: Wild Weather',
on Sat, 8 Jan 2005:

So ... are you guys prepared to give this guy any credence yet?

I think he'd get on well with Ivor Catt.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Mark Jones · Jan 7, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:44:39 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote (in
1105092913.800173.221300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com&gt about 'OT: Wild
Weather', on Fri, 7 Jan 2005:

[snip]

The state of the weather in
Arizona over the last hundred years isn't all that relevant.

It's relevant, perhaps, but not a reliable indicator of any global
trend.

It's all that matters to me.

MIT* doesn't agree with the global warming theories... that's good
enough for me.

* Except for one leftist nut case ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I recall seeing all the data collected from polar ice cores graphed
as global temperature over time. I wish I'd remember where the website
was. Prolly NOAA or something. The graph was very interesting to see,
it showed the temperature fluctuations oscillating rather predictably,
clearly showing the ice ages and warmer periods, and looked much like
the coercivity of a saturated iron core. (Ironic, seeing the earth has
an iron core...) Taking into consideration that the Earth not only
goes around our sun but also up/down in its orbit, this makes sense
even more sense.

What doesn't make sense is the last few thousand years of the graph.
It clearly should have started going into a colder period, but instead
the global temperature has stayed almost constant. So what we perceive
as being "no change" in global warming might actually be a "big deal."

Disclaimer: I'm no climatologist.

Nico Coesel · Jan 7, 2005

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

I recently visited Auckland (New Zealand). Its now supposed to be
summer over there. I've had rain, hail, clouds and sunshine in one
day. According to a taxi driver its not uncommon to have all four
seasons in one day.

--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Jim Thompson · Jan 7, 2005

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 19:43:25 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
wrote:

Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

See...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/Musings/Funnel.gif

I recently visited Auckland (New Zealand). Its now supposed to be
summer over there. I've had rain, hail, clouds and sunshine in one
day. According to a taxi driver its not uncommon to have all four
seasons in one day.

A few years ago I flew into Minneapolis (August), rented a car and was
heading to Chippewa Falls, WI (consulting at Cray/SGS

.

Midway there the radio station in Minneapolis was fading out, so I
started scanning the AM band... came upon a station that was
announcing a tornado sighting in a town I had just passed.

Looked in my rear view mirror, and there it was, up close and personal
:-(

Put my foot to the floor and outran it, wheeeew ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

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| E-mail Address at Website Fax

OT: Wild Weather

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