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oscilloscope image partial collapse...

M

Mike Hooker

Guest
On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 9:36:50 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:

=======================

** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
.... Phil
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================
** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that
** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetised - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.



.... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================
** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that
** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetised - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.



.... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================
** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that
** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetised - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.



.... Phil
 
M

Mike Hooker

Guest
On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 11:19:45 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================

** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that

** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetised - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.



... Phil
i considered it may have been dropped. did you look at the video? im thinking if one of the defectors was damaged, the trace wouldnt move the way it does when it starts up, but maybe im off on that.
 
M

Mike Hooker

Guest
On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 11:19:45 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================

** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that

** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetised - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.



... Phil
i considered it may have been dropped. did you look at the video? im thinking if one of the defectors was damaged, the trace wouldnt move the way it does when it starts up, but maybe im off on that.
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=====================
If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetised - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.


i considered it may have been dropped. did you look at the video?
im thinking if one of the defectors was damaged,
the trace wouldnt move the way it does when it starts up, but maybe im off on that.
** I see nothing unusual for a tube scope start up in your vid.

What you claimed in you OP and now is false.
The dot quickly centers then moves off to the left slowly.
Perfect.


...... Phil
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 11:19:45 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================

** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that

** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetized - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.
Heathkit used aluminum for most of their cabinets.
The CRT has a MuMetal shield.

Do you have a schematic and a real oscilloscope?
http://www.rsp-italy.it/Electronics/Kits/_contents/Heathkit/Kits/Heathkit%20IO-20%20ignition%20analyzer.pdf

I see a NE2 neon and a diode used in previous stages that could affect linearity, but I don\'t have a parts list. There is a pot off the Neon lap marked \'Right Adjust\'.

Fair Radio still has some unused 5UP1 CRTs
https://fairradio.com/product/5up1/

There is currently another IO-20 on Ebay, less the probes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174516063489
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 11:19:45 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
mhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
=======================

** Why did you tell us you had an IO-10 ???
have an old heathkit io-10 auto ignition oscilloscope.
..
it was either a typo or lack of sleep. not from this problem though.
sorry bout that

** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetized - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.
Heathkit used aluminum for most of their cabinets.
The CRT has a MuMetal shield.

Do you have a schematic and a real oscilloscope?
http://www.rsp-italy.it/Electronics/Kits/_contents/Heathkit/Kits/Heathkit%20IO-20%20ignition%20analyzer.pdf

I see a NE2 neon and a diode used in previous stages that could affect linearity, but I don\'t have a parts list. There is a pot off the Neon lap marked \'Right Adjust\'.

Fair Radio still has some unused 5UP1 CRTs
https://fairradio.com/product/5up1/

There is currently another IO-20 on Ebay, less the probes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174516063489
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
terrell....@gmail.com wrote:
=========================
palli...@gmail.com wrote:

** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetized - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.

Heathkit used aluminum for most of their cabinets.
** So what ? This one may not be part of that \"most\".
CRT scopes with Aluminium cases are rare as hell.

> The CRT has a MuMetal shield.

** How do you know that ?
Another inspired guess ?

> Do you have a schematic and a real oscilloscope?

** Huh ?

> I see a NE2 neon and a diode used in previous stages that could affect linearity, but I don\'t have a parts list.

** The OP is clueless and posting contradictory, total nonsense.
So are you.


...... Phil
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 6:19:09 PM UTC-4, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Michael Terrell wrote:
========================> > palli...@gmail.com wrote:

** Start again - the io-20 is a COMPLETELY different animal !!!

If all the tubes are OK and the voltage too - not much is left but the CRT.

Two possibilities:

1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetized - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.

Heathkit used aluminum for most of their cabinets.
** So what ? This one may not be part of that \"most\".
CRT scopes with Aluminium cases are rare as hell.
Maybe in Oz. HP and Tektronix used a lot of aluminum for their oscilloscope cabinets. Those aren\'t rare, among engineers or real techs.

The CRT has a MuMetal shield.

** How do you know that ?
From the photos that I linked to.

Another inspired guess ?
Do you have a schematic and a real oscilloscope?
** Huh ?
I see a NE2 neon and a diode used in previous stages that could affect linearity, but I don\'t have a parts list.
** The OP is clueless and posting contradictory, total nonsense.
So are you.

Sigh, you are the queen of posting nonsense.
Look at the photos in the Ebay link that I posted and see inside the IO-20 for yourself. I\'ve repaired a lot of Heathkit equipment, and most of it used aluminum, except for some stereo equipment. They sold wood cabinets to cover a bare steel chassis, or you could build them into custom cabinets.

I built my first Heathkit about 55 years ago. I built dozens for myself, and others.

I also used a Heathkit color bar generator to transmit a color station ID from a black and white TV station. I genlocked it to our master Sync Generator, then used the monochrome video keyer to add color to a B&W 35mm slide. The information was displayed on the AFRTS page of the US DOD website for about a decade, before they purged all the shared emails.

The other links included a schematic for the OP and a source for a new CRT, if needed.

A working scope is quite handy when repairing an ailing scope.
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
terrell....@gmail.com wrote:
======================
1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetized - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.

Heathkit used aluminum for most of their cabinets.

** So what ? This one may not be part of that \"most\".
CRT scopes with Aluminium cases are rare as hell.

Maybe in Oz. HP and Tektronix
** Sure, Heathkit = Tek

Who fucking knew ..................


> A working scope is quite handy when repairing an ailing scope.

** The fuckwit OP\'s scope is NOT ailing in the way he claimed.

Did you miss his U-tube ?

Vid worth a million false words.



.......... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
terrell....@gmail.com wrote:
======================
1. Because of being used around cars, it is likely to have fallen onto a hard surface once or twice.

2. The steel case is magnetized - deflecting the trace.

See if removing the cover makes a difference.

BTW I could not find any internal pic on the net.

Heathkit used aluminum for most of their cabinets.

** So what ? This one may not be part of that \"most\".
CRT scopes with Aluminium cases are rare as hell.

Maybe in Oz. HP and Tektronix
** Sure, Heathkit = Tek

Who fucking knew ..................


> A working scope is quite handy when repairing an ailing scope.

** The fuckwit OP\'s scope is NOT ailing in the way he claimed.

Did you miss his U-tube ?

Vid worth a million false words.



.......... Phil
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 2:45:40 AM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
** Sure, Heathkit = Tek
In the case of using aluminum cabinets, yes they are.

> Who fucking knew ..................

Obviously, not you.

Your ignorance is showing again. The only steel cased scope I ever knowingly owned was an RCA. It was so old they called it an oscillograph. I\'ve seen the Philco and Sylvania versions of the 3\" WWII military scopes that were crammed into tiny steel boxes. I wouldn\'t even use one for audio work. They sat on a shelf at TV shops for decades because no one would use them.

Heathkit used aluminum, because they could produce their cabinets in house with simpler machine tools. Just because you are ignorant doesn\'t change any facts. Heathkit also had to consider shipping costs, since hey sold to hobbyists and repair shops where their only advantage over other kit suppliers was maybe a dollar or two. Therefore, they were more compact and lighter than failed companies like EICO. My first scope was an EICO 460 that was given to me because the CRT filament winding was shorted to the core. It was twice as heavy as a similar Heathkit, and not as well designed.

Heathkit got into electronic kits after WWII when there were millions of pounds of military grade components being sold for pennies on the pound. New CRTs were well under a dollar, so the designed a scope from what they could get.

Their prior products included a small, single engine airplane and furniture kits. They also sold electric organ kits, based on commercial products where you coukld save 1/3 to 1/2 overt the retail price by assembling the kit. A far cry from Dick Smith in OZ.

Take your meds and stop acting like a six year old. You can be a decent guy at times, but every time someone brings up something that you don\'t know about, you go nuts.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 2:45:40 AM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
** Sure, Heathkit = Tek
In the case of using aluminum cabinets, yes they are.

> Who fucking knew ..................

Obviously, not you.

Your ignorance is showing again. The only steel cased scope I ever knowingly owned was an RCA. It was so old they called it an oscillograph. I\'ve seen the Philco and Sylvania versions of the 3\" WWII military scopes that were crammed into tiny steel boxes. I wouldn\'t even use one for audio work. They sat on a shelf at TV shops for decades because no one would use them.

Heathkit used aluminum, because they could produce their cabinets in house with simpler machine tools. Just because you are ignorant doesn\'t change any facts. Heathkit also had to consider shipping costs, since hey sold to hobbyists and repair shops where their only advantage over other kit suppliers was maybe a dollar or two. Therefore, they were more compact and lighter than failed companies like EICO. My first scope was an EICO 460 that was given to me because the CRT filament winding was shorted to the core. It was twice as heavy as a similar Heathkit, and not as well designed.

Heathkit got into electronic kits after WWII when there were millions of pounds of military grade components being sold for pennies on the pound. New CRTs were well under a dollar, so the designed a scope from what they could get.

Their prior products included a small, single engine airplane and furniture kits. They also sold electric organ kits, based on commercial products where you coukld save 1/3 to 1/2 overt the retail price by assembling the kit. A far cry from Dick Smith in OZ.

Take your meds and stop acting like a six year old. You can be a decent guy at times, but every time someone brings up something that you don\'t know about, you go nuts.
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
terrell....@gmail.com wrote:
===================

** Sure, Heathkit = Tek

In the case of using aluminum cabinets, yes they are.
** Childish drivel.

Who fucking knew ..................

Obviously, not you.
** Pure idiocy.

> Your ignorance is showing again.

** No it isn\'t.

> The only steel cased scope I ever knowingly owned was an RCA.

** Poor diddums - could not afford a good, steel case one ......

FYI: Steel has both strength & magnetic qualities that are an advantage with CRT scopes.

> Heathkit used aluminum, because they could produce their cabinets in house with simpler machine tools.

** Yep - steel is way better but a bit harder to work.

> Just because you are ignorant doesn\'t change any facts.

** ROTFL - this jerkoff knows no bounds.

Take your meds and stop acting like a six year old.
** FFS this just gets funnier and funnier !!!!

> You can be a decent guy at times,

** Shame that cannot be ever said about a bullshitting, Septic asshole like you.

Drop dead.
 
P

Phil Allison

Guest
terrell....@gmail.com wrote:
===================

** Sure, Heathkit = Tek

In the case of using aluminum cabinets, yes they are.
** Childish drivel.

Who fucking knew ..................

Obviously, not you.
** Pure idiocy.

> Your ignorance is showing again.

** No it isn\'t.

> The only steel cased scope I ever knowingly owned was an RCA.

** Poor diddums - could not afford a good, steel case one ......

FYI: Steel has both strength & magnetic qualities that are an advantage with CRT scopes.

> Heathkit used aluminum, because they could produce their cabinets in house with simpler machine tools.

** Yep - steel is way better but a bit harder to work.

> Just because you are ignorant doesn\'t change any facts.

** ROTFL - this jerkoff knows no bounds.

Take your meds and stop acting like a six year old.
** FFS this just gets funnier and funnier !!!!

> You can be a decent guy at times,

** Shame that cannot be ever said about a bullshitting, Septic asshole like you.

Drop dead.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 3:21:43 PM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Drop dead.
You and Sloman make all Australians look like fools.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 3:21:43 PM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
Drop dead.
You and Sloman make all Australians look like fools.
 
M

Mike Hooker

Guest
On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 6:51:11 PM UTC-5, terrell....@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, November 7, 2021 at 3:21:43 PM UTC-5, palli...@gmail.com wrote:

Drop dead.

You and Sloman make all Australians look like fools.
i got the scope working. it was a combination of two things i believe. it doesnt have an internal trigger, i was triggering it with a d cell battery.. that would give me a brief trace, enough to see it wasnt full screen. i found an open 470k resistor for a horizontal drive tube and replaced it. after replacing it, triggering it with the battery, the trace line looked full screen. i was happy, and took it from from where i work ( a railroad) to test on my truck. when i did, i got nothing. i m like WTF? after beating the internet bushes, i found the assembly manual for the unit. it was gold. it showed how to troubleshoot it using a jumper to generate a constant trace line, and another jumper to get vertical defection. it also had some scope patterns at various tube pins. after going over it, i was missing a 220 v waveform . i found a thin solid core wire from the 340V rail to a lug on a horizonal tube detached. didnt even know it was there .it was buried, hard to see, and right up against lug, but broken off. probably broke off when i brought it home. i might have compromised it replacing the open resistor, one end was on the same lug. there was also a helpul video on youtube about how defection place on a crt work. i learned a lot. i never repaired anything tube, or crt\'s with deflection plates, only yokes. anyway, a few people here gave good advice , one guy was a total dick, as he usually is here. thanks to all who helped.
 
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