Op amps problem Gain Calculation

[Meanie]

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.  Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.  More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.  Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy



 That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?  I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know  or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a fucking invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work.  Why on
earth would you see that as bragging?  You have some weird mental problem.

It's simple....
<beginning of sentence> "I know how inverters work." <end of sentence>

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy



That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a fucking invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work. Why on
earth would you see that as bragging? You have some weird mental problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence> "I know how inverters work." <end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work. Why you see that as bragging, nobody knows.

 

[Peeler]

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 19:11:44 -0500, Meanie, the real dumb troll-feeding
senile Yank, blathered again:

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

Of course he is. That troll gets you, time and again, senile fool!

 

[Meanie]

On 12/30/2018 7:17 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.  Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.  More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.  Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy




 That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?  I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know  or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a fucking invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work.  Why on
earth would you see that as bragging?  You have some weird mental
problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence> "I know how inverters work." <end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work.  Why you see
that as bragging, nobody knows.

LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

 

[Diesel]

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is>
newsp.zusqdvwu7uplkq@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:16:33
GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few
kW? They were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered
electric outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For example, last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a
quart plastic container. The Panasonic has a defrost mode that
uses about 30% power and cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage. It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at
its fixed wattage until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-mic
rowaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy
That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device
to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

It's actually a switching power supply, instead of the old heavy step
up transformer, diode and capacitor system. And contrary to the other
posters reply, there 'inverter' style microwave is NOT throttling the
power going to the magnetron. It's still getting high voltage DC
current, just like the original ones. It's better able to control the
timing period for magnetron on/off cycles as well as independent
control over the magnetrons required filament. the old step up
transformer style fired the element with another tap on the
secondary. so, if the transformer had power, both the filament and
magnetron do too. No way to seperate them in that design.

And why on earth would you not want to cook on full power? I've
never had a reason to lower the power from the maximum of 800W. I
want the meal as soon as possible!

You aren't lowering or raising the power to your magnetron when you
adjust those cooking settings. All you're actually doing is telling
the microwaves computer how long to leave the magnetron on for. Ie:
how fast does it cycle the magnetrons power state. For the old heavy
ones, non 'inverter', it's opening/closing a single pole relay that
controls the input on the primary coil to the step up transformer.
Your 'cooking' settings determine how long that relay stays open and
closes for. That's all. Anytime it's closed, your magnetron (in your
case) is kicking 800watts of microwave energy. You can't adjust that.
What you can adjust is how long it's firing the energy into the
cooking chamber.


--
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer,
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com

 

[Diesel]

Arthur Conan Doyle <dont@bother.com>
news:n1ff2el7b5fc6megbeihv069t05gouso10@None Sat, 29 Dec 2018
18:27:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is> wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron.
Inverter driven magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

Wrong.

Both styles actually take AC incoming mains, raise it to 5k or so,
and convert it with a single diode mind you, to DC to feed the
magnetron. The filament is fed by low voltage AC. Neither of them can
or do vary the voltage going to the magnetron. That's just not how it
works. You can't lower the voltage to reduce microwave energy. And
you can't raise it to get more microwave energy, either. The
magnetron requires voltage within a certain range to function. More
than that will burn the magnetron up. Less will prevent it from
making viable microwaves.


--
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer,
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com

 

[Diesel]

"dkol" <dkol@gmail.com> news:g8sifiFnqa9U1@mid.individual.net Sun,
30 Dec 2018 18:52:28 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is> wrote in
message newsp.zuuhyndf7uplkq@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F
bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill
Gill wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a
few kW? They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered
electric outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would
be practical for use. Getting warming times down to a
couple of seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is
not always better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would
be. For example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart
plastic container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power
and cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage. It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off
at its fixed wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-
microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy

That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power.
Inverter microwaves are much better for defrosting AND
cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working
by the time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a
device to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off
a 12V car battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know
absolutely nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you
know or ask and educate yourself about the other

I know what a fucking invertor is, I built my own solar panel
system.

Not the same as an inverter microwave oven.

That's because the inverter microwave oven is really a switching
power supply based oven, instead of a bulky, heavy, inefficient step
up transformer. [g] I suppose you can call it an inverter because
it's taking AC mains, raising it significantly and converting it to
DC which is the same thing as the original step up style was doing,
but it's not having to use a bulky transformer to do it.

It's also good advertising.. right? 'Ours uses 'inverter'
technology!' Well, technically, so did the originals, with a single
diode. [g] And, it's not outright lying, it's really got an inverter
for it's power supply...so its cheaper to make, and weighs less too.

But, it's not varying the power feeding the magnetron or anything
like that. It's able to control magnetron power and filament power
seperately, which can assist with shorter cooking times. Vs the old
step up style that couldn't control them seperately, short of using
an additional transformer (for the filament only) and another relay
for that little transformer. In the old school style, the step up
transformer has two taps. One high voltage, one low voltage. High
voltage for the magnetron, low voltage for the filament. But both
supplying whenever the mains was available to the transformer. So you
couldn't keep the filament on to avoid warm up times while you had
the magnetron itself powered down for a cycle. You can with the
switching or inverter style. Which turns into more efficient cooking
and less power consumed over all to do it.





--
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer,
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: 44-1395-443340 (H) 07974-193550 (M)
Email(s): davidandtrishab@btinternet.com, boaterdavetj@aol.com

 

[Peeler]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:18:43 -0000 (UTC), Diesel, another braindead,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device
to increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

It's actually a switching power supply, instead of the old heavy step
up transformer, diode and capacitor system.

Isn't it just great for you mentally challenged troll-feeding senile idiots
that there is always this one fucking stupid troll around who keeps baiting
you with his absolutely idiotic statements and questions? Just HOW lonely
are you lot? <tsk>

 

[Max Demian]

On 31/12/2018 07:18, Diesel wrote:

Arthur Conan Doyle <dont@bother.com
news:n1ff2el7b5fc6megbeihv069t05gouso10@None Sat, 29 Dec 2018
18:27:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is> wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron.
Inverter driven magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

Wrong.

Both styles actually take AC incoming mains, raise it to 5k or so,
and convert it with a single diode mind you, to DC to feed the
magnetron. The filament is fed by low voltage AC. Neither of them can
or do vary the voltage going to the magnetron. That's just not how it
works. You can't lower the voltage to reduce microwave energy. And
you can't raise it to get more microwave energy, either. The
magnetron requires voltage within a certain range to function. More
than that will burn the magnetron up. Less will prevent it from
making viable microwaves.

So what is the difference between inverter and non inverter types? Is
'inverter' an appropriate term? How do either control the power?

--
Max Demian

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 01:43:35 -0000, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:20 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 12:16:27 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:21:46 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 30/12/2018 03:18, Bill Wright wrote:
On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

I can't say many things I cook have large solid lumps. All ready meals are pretty much fluid, so convection and conduction can take place, and almost everything I cook is a dish of something which is only 2 inches deep.

I don't know what the low settings are for. All the instructions I've
seen - e.g. on ready meals - say "full power". There is the defrost
setting, but microwaves aren't very good at defrosting as they don't
heat frozen water very well.

Mine thaws a frozen (already cooked) pizza extremely well, on full power. It turns a -20C pizza into a +40C pizza in 4 minutes.

Only a moron would cook a pizza in a microwave.


Or, a really smart person who like really tough pizza.

The pizzas I use are already cooked. Asda does that part for me. I'm just defrosting them and bringing them to eating temperature.

But if I was cooking one, there's no reason you couldn't do it in a microwave. If anything I'd say they'd end up softer not harder, as an oven tends to cook from the outside and make a hard crust.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 03:48:02 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 7:17 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use. Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea. More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it. Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy




That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor? I thought an invertor was a device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a fucking invertor is, I built my own solar panel system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work. Why on
earth would you see that as bragging? You have some weird mental
problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence> "I know how inverters work." <end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work. Why you see
that as bragging, nobody knows.


LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

You're not very good at comprehending English are you? I have built a solar power system using invertors by myself. Therefore I know what an invertor is and how it works. That is a statement of fact, not bragging.

 

[Meanie]

On 12/31/2018 1:28 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 03:48:02 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 7:17 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:11:44 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:44 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 17:28:31 -0000, Meanie <Me@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:09 PM, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 03:09:29 -0000, FMurtz <haggisz@hotmail.com
wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:38:04 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 08:07:42 -0800, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:

On 12/29/2018 6:37 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 9:23:42 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill
wrote:
On 12/29/2018 7:43 AM, William Gothberg wrote:
Shouldn't we have faster microwaves by now giving out a
few kW?
They
were invented decades ago.
Higher powered microwaves would require higher powered
electric
outlets, probably 220VAC (in the USA).

Also it is questionable whether higher powered ovens would be
practical for use.  Getting warming times down to a couple of
seconds might not be a good idea.  More speed is not always
better.

Bill

+1

That about covers it.  Not sure how useful more power would be.
For
example,
last night I was thawing out a tomato sauce in a quart plastic
container.
The Panasonic has a defrost mode that uses about 30% power and
cycles that.


It gets the 30% power by cycling the 100% power on 30% of the
time.

(By the way, adjusting the level does not actually change the
wattage.
It simply means the microwave will pulse on and off at its fixed
wattage
until the desired level is reached.)

https://lifehacker.com/5974788/familiarize-yourself-with-your-microwaves-power-settings-to-make-microwave-cooking-a-joy





 That was true of the first generation of Microwaves, but the
current
"inverter" driver units actually CAN throttle the power. Inverter
microwaves are much better for defrosting AND cooking.

We've had ours for about 2 years now - replacing our original
that we
bought in about 1985.

BIG difference (but the old one would likely still be working by
the
time this one dies)

Why is it called an invertor?  I thought an invertor was a
device to
increase the voltage - like running 240V devices off a 12V car
battery.

Why do you persist in posting waffle about which you know
absolutely
nothing, twould be better to post on subjects you know  or ask and
educate yourself about the other

I know what a fucking invertor is, I built my own solar panel
system.

LMFAO! There it is again. Nobody else brags about you therefore, brag
about yourself when nobody asked. LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

I wasn't bragging, I was stating I know how inverters work.  Why on
earth would you see that as bragging?  You have some weird mental
problem.


It's simple....
beginning of sentence> "I know how inverters work." <end of sentence

See that? No requirement of why or bragging about an accomplishment. I
simply stated I know how they work. If required, you could explain the
process of the inverter without stating you built something. But not
you.... you do man! LMFAO!

I know, we all have weird mental problems because you say so. You're
the
best!

I backed up my reasoning as yo why I know how they work.  Why you see
that as bragging, nobody knows.


LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

You're not very good at comprehending English are you?  I have built a
solar power system using invertors by myself.  Therefore I know what an
invertor is and how it works.  That is a statement of fact, not bragging.

LMFAO! Pathetic wanker.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 07:18:47 -0000, Diesel <nobody@haph.org> wrote:

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is
newsp.zuspthk07uplkq@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan Sat, 29 Dec 2018 18:04:19
GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:46:36 -0000, Clare Snyder
clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 +0000, Bill Wright
wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2
minutes.

Conduction

Bill
Cooking a steak in 2 minutes would likely be like cooking an
egg in
it's shell in a microwave. Zapp!! - Splatt!!!!!!

even boiling a tall cup of water at 1000 watts can be dangerous


Boiling of water occurs when bubbles of water vapor expand in
liquid water and are released at its surface. When water is
heated in a microwave, it may remain undisturbed during the
heating process so that there are no nucleation sites around
which bubbles may form. The superheated water may appear to be
cooler than it really is since the water did not visibly boil.
Bumping a cup of superheated water, adding another ingredient
(e.g., salt or sugar), or stirring the water may cause it to
boil, suddenly and violently. The water may boil over the cup or
spray out as steam.

To prevent this from happening, avoid reboiling water. Boiling
drives dissolved gases out of water, so when you allow it to cool
before boiling it again, there are fewer nucleation sites to
allow boiling at the boiling point. Also, if you suspect water is
hot enough that it should have boiled, move the container with a
long-handled spoon so if explosively boiling occurs, you're less
likely to get burned. Finally, avoid heating water longer than
necessary.

That's a myth. I've seen those silly posters in the workplace -
never boil water on its own, don't take it out as soon as it stop
heating etc, etc.

NO! It's not a myth. The following is from first hand experience...

I had a 1kw microwave I used for burritos. It died (the transformer
puked); I replaced it with a 1100 watt model; didn't think 100watts
would make much of a difference.. I put my burrito in, set the time,
walked away.. it destroyed my burrito. burnt popcorn smell in my
brand new microwave. Dunno why it smelled like burnt popcorn but, it
did...

Well I guess you should have reduced the time by a factor of 1.1....

Not wanting to be a dishonest shit, I didn't take it back to the
store. I opted to clean it with vinegar and water.

I've heard of someone throwing out a microwave because the bulb's gone, but not because it's dirty....

So, I took a mixing cup, added some vinegar (too much it turned out)
and water. Microwaved it. Observed it begin to bubble up, then it
stopped bubbling. The water was clear as can be, no surface activity.
I thought the new microwave quit working! So, I got real close and
continued watching the mixing cup; not appearing to do a damn thing.
No more bubbles, no nothing. No activity I could see.

Until ... ka fucking boom! The door safety latches caught it,
otherwise it would have drilled my happy ass right in the face as it
opened violently, spilling super hot fucking water all over my shoes
(lucky for me, steel toe boots I hadn't removed yet) and alot of
steam that I didn't observe building in the chamber prior to the door
violently opening. I've never had this happen before, so I inquired
about it via a usenet post. Mark Lloyd I think it was explained what
I got to observe first hand; and in hindsight, it was a very stupid
fucking thing for me to have done. Super heating is real, it's not a
myth and it's fucking dangerous to do. I lucked out, the microwave
wasn't so cheaply made that it let the door hit me in the face with
some force. And the mixing cup didn't explode; I originally thought
the cup broke or something and that's what happened; until I removed
the cup and found it was fine.

There must be some very unusual circumstances to make that happen, because I have actually tried to make it happen on purpose a few times, and it never works. The water simply boils and bubbles over, just like it would on a stove. I think you need an absolutely spotless glass, water with no existing bubbles, perhaps from filling it from the tap, and no movement (I would have thought the vibrations of the turntable would stop it, do you have one of those new turntableless ones?) Maybe the vinegar made it happen? People use it to stop streaking when washing windows. That's not a usual thing to heat.

Put a glass of water in a 900W microwave, and watch it do nothing
for a few minutes, no bubbles, just slowly slowly warming through.
Why not have that twice as fast?

Except it's not just slowly slowly warming through. It's super
heating and is unstable.

Only once it gets to that point. It takes a long time from tapwater temperature to boiling point. That's the time consuming part of cooking something.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:29:15 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 3:22:52 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:16:33 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid> wrote:

On 12/29/18 12:52 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

Microwaving something in a cheap shit plastic container is insane. I
always cook or eat things in a real pot bowl. Plastic melts!

The first thing I heated in a microwave was frozen macaroni and cheese.
The instructions said to cover it in plastic wrap. It didn't take me
long to figure out that it was a really bad idea, consider trying to
separate melted plastic from melted cheese.

Indeed, that cheap shit plastic melts in a 700W microwave oven. Or in any microwave oven, it can't handle boiling water, which inevitably you get from the food. And I bet it's rather toxic.

Which is why when DEFROSTING something that's in a plastic container you
use the DEFROST cycle that uses low power and then cycles even that after
about 75 secs.

I'm not talking about defrosting. I've bought ready meals which are sat at room or fridge temperature, they go in the microwave to heat and the plastic melts.

You've said you just use yours for cooking pre-made
frozen dinners and the like, which is crap I wouldn't even eat.

It's more tasty and quicker to make

Others here use microwaves for other uses, including defrosting raw foods that
you don't want to cook in the microwave. I gave you an example, pork chops.
I want them DEFROSTED, not cooked. Once DEFROSTED, I can then brine them,
marinate them, grill them, so what I would with any fresh pork chops.

What a palava. We invented ready meals for a reason.

Or defrosting tomato sauce that in a plastic container. I want the sauce
DEFROSTED, not a melted container. I suppose I should only freeze foods
in ceramic bowls that go in a microwave?

You take them out of the container they were in dumbass.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:RY-dncgtbouZtrfBnZ2dnUU78KWdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...

On 31/12/2018 07:18, Diesel wrote:
Arthur Conan Doyle <dont@bother.com
news:n1ff2el7b5fc6megbeihv069t05gouso10@None Sat, 29 Dec 2018
18:27:21 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is> wrote:

Why is it called an invertor?

Typical microwaves use fixed AC power to drive the magnetron.
Inverter driven magnetrons use DC power, which can be variable.

Wrong.

Both styles actually take AC incoming mains, raise it to 5k or so,
and convert it with a single diode mind you, to DC to feed the
magnetron. The filament is fed by low voltage AC. Neither of them can
or do vary the voltage going to the magnetron. That's just not how it
works. You can't lower the voltage to reduce microwave energy. And
you can't raise it to get more microwave energy, either. The
magnetron requires voltage within a certain range to function. More
than that will burn the magnetron up. Less will prevent it from
making viable microwaves.

So what is the difference between inverter and non inverter types?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_oven
The non inverters are basically just a fucking great
transformer and a magnetron and the less than
full power settings turn the whole thing on and
off in cycles of a few seconds at a time.

Inverter microwaves use a more sophisticated PWM
system where the duty cycle changes to change the
power level delivered to the food etc.

> Is 'inverter' an appropriate term?

Yes given that the magnetron runs
at a lot higher than mains voltage.

> How do either control the power?

See above.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:33:11 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 3:24:35 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:20:18 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 12:16:27 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:21:46 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 30/12/2018 03:18, Bill Wright wrote:
On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2 minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

I can't say many things I cook have large solid lumps. All ready meals are pretty much fluid, so convection and conduction can take place, and almost everything I cook is a dish of something which is only 2 inches deep.

I don't know what the low settings are for. All the instructions I've
seen - e.g. on ready meals - say "full power". There is the defrost
setting, but microwaves aren't very good at defrosting as they don't
heat frozen water very well.

Mine thaws a frozen (already cooked) pizza extremely well, on full power. It turns a -20C pizza into a +40C pizza in 4 minutes.

Only a moron would cook a pizza in a microwave.

No, anyone who wants it ready more quickly. I buy the frozen pizza in the supermarket, place it in the microwave, then I can eat it in 4 minutes.

Why would you think pizzas shouldn't go in microwaves?! Every foodstuff can be cooked in a microwave.

Sure, pizza can be cooked and turned into crap in a microwave. You could
boil it too, that would cook it, so why not do that. In the microwave,
you are kind of boiling it. It comes out soggy, steamed instead of baked.
I can see another part of your problem, you eat crap and don't understand
or appreciate proper cooking methods that produce great food.

I appreciate the better things in life and don't want to spend hours making food. To make something tasty, you make it warmer, end of story.

 

[William Gothberg]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:47:59 -0000, trader_4 <trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 7:02:24 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:56:15 -0000, "William Gothberg"
William_Gothberg@internet.co.is> wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:41:32 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On 30/12/2018 17:11, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 09:10:46 -0000, Andy Bennet <andyb@andy.com> wrote:
On 29/12/2018 18:21, % wrote:

and then re wire the house and when you use it ,
you can watch the hydro disk spin like a top

LOL. I have a 14.4kW electric boiler. That's what I call spin.

Spin? Does anyone still have those old mechanical meters?

Me! Me! Me!

Why are you so excited about it?

Mine just
blinks an LED.

I was in a place with one of those. Spit!

Why spit? They're probably more accurate.

With the spinning disc I can calculate the instantaneous power
consumption, which all those fancy "smart meters" can do.

Mine is not a smart meter, I would have to be held at gunpoint to have that installed in my house. My energy supplier (EDF) has attempted to contact me 30 times by phone and 5 times by letter to get one. They are blocked on my phone (although it does register every attempt to phone me, which is a source of amusement - not once did they bother leaving an answerphone message). Letters go in the bin where they belong.

Nobody ever even asked me. One day a guy knocked on the door and said
the power would be off a little while. By I got my shoes on and got
out there to see what they were doing, the new meter was installed and
he was snapping a seal on the ring.

Still have the old spinners here in NJ, at least for existing homes.
IDK what they are using on new ones, probably the electronic ones.
They did switch out the water meters about 15 years ago so that they
can read those just driving down the street. Gas meter is still the
mechanical ones and they swapped that out, as required by law, a couple
years ago, so I presume they aren't converting to electronic either.

Seriously? Your country allows changing of a meter without the homeowners permission?!?

And water meters? Oh my god. I can use as much fucking water as I like, it's flat rate. Water falls from the sky, it's free! If I was forced to use a meter I'd install my own collection system!

 

[dkol]

"William Gothberg" <William_Gothberg@internet.co.is> wrote in message
newsp.zuwf8pt97uplkq@desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 01:43:35 -0000, Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/30/2018 12:20 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 12:16:27 PM UTC-5, William Gothberg
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 10:21:46 -0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 30/12/2018 03:18, Bill Wright wrote:
On 29/12/2018 17:35, William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 17:15:05 -0000, Bill Wright
wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

On 29/12/2018 16:27, William Gothberg wrote:

It can take 5 minutes to warm something from frozen to eating
temperature. I see no reason that couldn't be made into 2
minutes.

Conduction

Which would be way faster if the water content the microwaves were
hitting was heated hotter.

But the difference in temp between the outside and the inside of the
food would be greater and this could result in food that was both
over-
and under-cooked. This is why microwave ovens have low settings, so
food
can cook slowly and evenly. Anyone who uses a microwave a lot will be
well aware of this. For items where convection can assist conduction
higher power can be fine, but not for large solid lumps of food.

I can't say many things I cook have large solid lumps. All ready meals
are pretty much fluid, so convection and conduction can take place, and
almost everything I cook is a dish of something which is only 2 inches
deep.

I don't know what the low settings are for. All the instructions I've
seen - e.g. on ready meals - say "full power". There is the defrost
setting, but microwaves aren't very good at defrosting as they don't
heat frozen water very well.

Mine thaws a frozen (already cooked) pizza extremely well, on full
power. It turns a -20C pizza into a +40C pizza in 4 minutes.

Only a moron would cook a pizza in a microwave.


Or, a really smart person who like really tough pizza.

The pizzas I use are already cooked. Asda does that part for me. I'm
just defrosting them and bringing them to eating temperature.

Wota connoisseur.

But if I was cooking one, there's no reason you couldn't do it in a
microwave.

There is actually. You don't get the bottom cooked
anything like as well as if you do it in a proper oven.

> If anything I'd say they'd end up softer not harder,

Yes, and that's nothing like a real pizza.

> as an oven tends to cook from the outside and make a hard crust.

That's what its meant to be with a real pizza.

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 08:59:38 +1100, dkol, better known as cantankerous
nym-shifting trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the two prize idiots' endless sick trollshit>

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jtFrknaU1@mid.individual.net>

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 16:57:16 -0000, Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid> wrote:

On 12/30/18 6:15 PM, William Gothberg wrote:

[snip]

Isn't it illegal to change your meter without permission?

There was no permission (or even notification) when they changed mine
(from mechanical to LCD readout, probably with remote reading). Just the
power went off (at about 10 AM IIRC) for a couple of minutes. When it
came back on, there was a new meter.

Land of the free my ass. And you guys also have rules imposed by the postal service, oh my god! What happened to your capitalism?