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C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 15:53:07 +0100, jfeng@my-deja.com <jfeng@my-deja.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 7:14:22 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Just for the fun of it, I did test the 3 \'free\' Harbor Freight meters on
AC and DC yeaterday. From 0 to 25 VDC the HF meters were within about
.5 % of the Fluke meter. On AC up to 130 VAC they were around 3 %. One
was always low and the other 2 were always high.

So they are accurate for most anything around the house for most people.

I checked the first half dozen or so against our NIST-traceable meters, and also found good agreement as long as the battery was fresh. One meter produced absurdly high readings when the battery was low; the only way to diagnose this was to put in a fresh one since the meter did not have a LO BAT indicator (I assume it was too low for the band gap reference).
Strange, as all my meters are still correct with a low battery. The display just gets dimmer or they won\'t switch on eventually.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 15:53:07 +0100, jfeng@my-deja.com <jfeng@my-deja.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 7:14:22 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Just for the fun of it, I did test the 3 \'free\' Harbor Freight meters on
AC and DC yeaterday. From 0 to 25 VDC the HF meters were within about
.5 % of the Fluke meter. On AC up to 130 VAC they were around 3 %. One
was always low and the other 2 were always high.

So they are accurate for most anything around the house for most people.

I checked the first half dozen or so against our NIST-traceable meters, and also found good agreement as long as the battery was fresh. One meter produced absurdly high readings when the battery was low; the only way to diagnose this was to put in a fresh one since the meter did not have a LO BAT indicator (I assume it was too low for the band gap reference).
Strange, as all my meters are still correct with a low battery. The display just gets dimmer or they won\'t switch on eventually.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:37:11 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 04:26:12 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.

Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?

Not sure, I have no interest in having other people do things to my house, I do DIY.

I assume the answer to your question is \"sometimes\", based on what\'s been done to other houses previously. If it\'s double brick, they pump in stuff through drilled holes. If it\'s single brick, they attach foam sheets then put pebbledash over it.

My house is double brick with just an air gap. R of 6 is enough for me.

Fair enough. I noticed construction practices are very different by
country. We have some really flimbsy accepted practices in the US for new
construction. The obsession here with insulating everything results in
buildings that will mold and rot from the smallest of water leaks. You can
flood and older building and since it\'s not sealed up like a plastic
freezer bag, it will dry out and be fine. The codes vary from state to
state as well. Some places are more tolerant of fiery death traps and
buildings that collapse while being built.
I was under the impression that USA \"codes\" were much more strict than UK \"regulations\".

I adhered to precisely none when I extended my house. It\'s MY house!
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:37:11 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 04:26:12 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.

Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?

Not sure, I have no interest in having other people do things to my house, I do DIY.

I assume the answer to your question is \"sometimes\", based on what\'s been done to other houses previously. If it\'s double brick, they pump in stuff through drilled holes. If it\'s single brick, they attach foam sheets then put pebbledash over it.

My house is double brick with just an air gap. R of 6 is enough for me.

Fair enough. I noticed construction practices are very different by
country. We have some really flimbsy accepted practices in the US for new
construction. The obsession here with insulating everything results in
buildings that will mold and rot from the smallest of water leaks. You can
flood and older building and since it\'s not sealed up like a plastic
freezer bag, it will dry out and be fine. The codes vary from state to
state as well. Some places are more tolerant of fiery death traps and
buildings that collapse while being built.
I was under the impression that USA \"codes\" were much more strict than UK \"regulations\".

I adhered to precisely none when I extended my house. It\'s MY house!
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 08:37:11 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 04:26:12 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.

Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?

Not sure, I have no interest in having other people do things to my house, I do DIY.

I assume the answer to your question is \"sometimes\", based on what\'s been done to other houses previously. If it\'s double brick, they pump in stuff through drilled holes. If it\'s single brick, they attach foam sheets then put pebbledash over it.

My house is double brick with just an air gap. R of 6 is enough for me.

Fair enough. I noticed construction practices are very different by
country. We have some really flimbsy accepted practices in the US for new
construction. The obsession here with insulating everything results in
buildings that will mold and rot from the smallest of water leaks. You can
flood and older building and since it\'s not sealed up like a plastic
freezer bag, it will dry out and be fine. The codes vary from state to
state as well. Some places are more tolerant of fiery death traps and
buildings that collapse while being built.
I was under the impression that USA \"codes\" were much more strict than UK \"regulations\".

I adhered to precisely none when I extended my house. It\'s MY house!
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:08:44 +0100, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

> You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.

Who is? Either learn how to use a newsreader correctly, or go play solitaire. And I don\'t care if I kill myself, as I\'m not a snowflake. And I\'ll hardly kill someone else with the meter in front of me.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:08:44 +0100, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

> You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.

Who is? Either learn how to use a newsreader correctly, or go play solitaire. And I don\'t care if I kill myself, as I\'m not a snowflake. And I\'ll hardly kill someone else with the meter in front of me.
 
P

Pimpom

Guest
On 7/18/2020 3:38 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.
Like butting your head against a brick wall, isn\'t it?
 
P

Pimpom

Guest
On 7/18/2020 3:38 AM, Michael Terrell wrote:
You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.
Like butting your head against a brick wall, isn\'t it?
 
T

Tom Gardner

Guest
On 17/07/20 23:08, Michael Terrell wrote:
> You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.

Well, yes.

Somebody that gives themself the moniker \"commander kinsey\"
either has too much regard for themself or is indicating
they intend to be a troll.
 
T

Tom Gardner

Guest
On 17/07/20 23:08, Michael Terrell wrote:
> You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.

Well, yes.

Somebody that gives themself the moniker \"commander kinsey\"
either has too much regard for themself or is indicating
they intend to be a troll.
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 10:52:44 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:31:23 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
[about accuracy/error specifications on a multimeter]

That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched.

How do I know which one the % error refers to, as I\'ve never seen it stated in the instructions? That would make a big difference if I was reading 0.4 amps on a 10 amp range.
When the literature says percent, and doesn\'t say what it\'s percent OF, the error
is unspecified. I\'ve got facemasks that are \"90% efficient\' which apparently
means that ninety percent of the air I breathe goes through them...
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 10:52:44 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:31:23 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
[about accuracy/error specifications on a multimeter]

That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched.

How do I know which one the % error refers to, as I\'ve never seen it stated in the instructions? That would make a big difference if I was reading 0.4 amps on a 10 amp range.
When the literature says percent, and doesn\'t say what it\'s percent OF, the error
is unspecified. I\'ve got facemasks that are \"90% efficient\' which apparently
means that ninety percent of the air I breathe goes through them...
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 09:39:21 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 10:52:44 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:31:23 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:


[about accuracy/error specifications on a multimeter]

That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched.

How do I know which one the % error refers to, as I\'ve never seen it stated in the instructions? That would make a big difference if I was reading 0.4 amps on a 10 amp range.

When the literature says percent, and doesn\'t say what it\'s percent OF, the error
is unspecified. I\'ve got facemasks that are \"90% efficient\' which apparently
means that ninety percent of the air I breathe goes through them...
Now you\'re just being silly. The only measurement of face masks is how well they block viruses. In your case, the mask lets 10% of the virus through, which means it\'s shit.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Fri, 17 Jul 2020 23:08:44 +0100, Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

> You are a dangerous fool. Either learn how to use a meter properly, or don\'t touch them. You only know enough to get someone killed.

Who is? Either learn how to use a newsreader correctly, or go play solitaire. And I don\'t care if I kill myself, as I\'m not a snowflake. And I\'ll hardly kill someone else with the meter in front of me.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 09:39:21 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, July 11, 2020 at 10:52:44 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:31:23 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:


[about accuracy/error specifications on a multimeter]

That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched.

How do I know which one the % error refers to, as I\'ve never seen it stated in the instructions? That would make a big difference if I was reading 0.4 amps on a 10 amp range.

When the literature says percent, and doesn\'t say what it\'s percent OF, the error
is unspecified. I\'ve got facemasks that are \"90% efficient\' which apparently
means that ninety percent of the air I breathe goes through them...
Now you\'re just being silly. The only measurement of face masks is how well they block viruses. In your case, the mask lets 10% of the virus through, which means it\'s shit.
 
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