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J

jfeng@my-deja.com

Guest
On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 7:14:22 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Just for the fun of it, I did test the 3 \'free\' Harbor Freight meters on
AC and DC yeaterday. From 0 to 25 VDC the HF meters were within about
.5 % of the Fluke meter. On AC up to 130 VAC they were around 3 %. One
was always low and the other 2 were always high.

So they are accurate for most anything around the house for most people.
I checked the first half dozen or so against our NIST-traceable meters, and also found good agreement as long as the battery was fresh. One meter produced absurdly high readings when the battery was low; the only way to diagnose this was to put in a fresh one since the meter did not have a LO BAT indicator (I assume it was too low for the band gap reference).
 
J

jfeng@my-deja.com

Guest
On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 7:14:22 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Just for the fun of it, I did test the 3 \'free\' Harbor Freight meters on
AC and DC yeaterday. From 0 to 25 VDC the HF meters were within about
.5 % of the Fluke meter. On AC up to 130 VAC they were around 3 %. One
was always low and the other 2 were always high.

So they are accurate for most anything around the house for most people.
I checked the first half dozen or so against our NIST-traceable meters, and also found good agreement as long as the battery was fresh. One meter produced absurdly high readings when the battery was low; the only way to diagnose this was to put in a fresh one since the meter did not have a LO BAT indicator (I assume it was too low for the band gap reference).
 
A

amdx

Guest
On 6/21/2020 6:53 AM, amdx wrote:
On 6/21/2020 3:54 AM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 8/10/2018 1:24 PM, amdx wrote:
...
Daughter gave me the leaf blower after the battery charger gave up.

Fix, build, or buy a battery charger.

And batteries, just not worth it.
Just to put this thread to rest, (it was resurrected after 20 months),
I rewound an MOT to have a 22V winding, Then full wave rectified it a to
power the Leaf blower.
All described in SED under \"Rewinding a MOT\".
Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
 
A

amdx

Guest
On 6/21/2020 6:53 AM, amdx wrote:
On 6/21/2020 3:54 AM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 8/10/2018 1:24 PM, amdx wrote:
...
Daughter gave me the leaf blower after the battery charger gave up.

Fix, build, or buy a battery charger.

And batteries, just not worth it.
Just to put this thread to rest, (it was resurrected after 20 months),
I rewound an MOT to have a 22V winding, Then full wave rectified it a to
power the Leaf blower.
All described in SED under \"Rewinding a MOT\".
Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:31:23 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 1:03:56 PM UTC-7, Rich wrote:
In sci.electronics.equipment Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
I just bought an amp clamp meter, and it states the error is \"+/-
1.9% + 3 digits\". What does the \"3 digits\" part mean?

The \"3 digits\" part is a measure of absolute error (i.e., the amount of
error that does not depend upon the magnitude of the value being
measured). The percentage part is a measure of relative error (i.e.,
the amount of error that does depend upon the magnitude of the value
being measured).

That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched. It represents some
absolute errors (offset voltages) which include slow drifts. Resolution
in excess of that percentage error is useful only in close-timed determinations
relative to the amplifier or reference drift and ageing.
How do I know which one the % error refers to, as I\'ve never seen it stated in the instructions? That would make a big difference if I was reading 0.4 amps on a 10 amp range.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 02:31:23 +0100, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 1:03:56 PM UTC-7, Rich wrote:
In sci.electronics.equipment Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
I just bought an amp clamp meter, and it states the error is \"+/-
1.9% + 3 digits\". What does the \"3 digits\" part mean?

The \"3 digits\" part is a measure of absolute error (i.e., the amount of
error that does not depend upon the magnitude of the value being
measured). The percentage part is a measure of relative error (i.e.,
the amount of error that does depend upon the magnitude of the value
being measured).

That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched. It represents some
absolute errors (offset voltages) which include slow drifts. Resolution
in excess of that percentage error is useful only in close-timed determinations
relative to the amplifier or reference drift and ageing.
How do I know which one the % error refers to, as I\'ve never seen it stated in the instructions? That would make a big difference if I was reading 0.4 amps on a 10 amp range.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.
Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.
 
J

jfeng@my-deja.com

Guest
On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 7:14:22 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Just for the fun of it, I did test the 3 \'free\' Harbor Freight meters on
AC and DC yeaterday. From 0 to 25 VDC the HF meters were within about
.5 % of the Fluke meter. On AC up to 130 VAC they were around 3 %. One
was always low and the other 2 were always high.

So they are accurate for most anything around the house for most people.
I checked the first half dozen or so against our NIST-traceable meters, and also found good agreement as long as the battery was fresh. One meter produced absurdly high readings when the battery was low; the only way to diagnose this was to put in a fresh one since the meter did not have a LO BAT indicator (I assume it was too low for the band gap reference).
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Guest
Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.
Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Guest
Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.
Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 04:26:12 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.

Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?
Not sure, I have no interest in having other people do things to my house, I do DIY.

I assume the answer to your question is \"sometimes\", based on what\'s been done to other houses previously. If it\'s double brick, they pump in stuff through drilled holes. If it\'s single brick, they attach foam sheets then put pebbledash over it.

My house is double brick with just an air gap. R of 6 is enough for me.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 04:26:12 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.

Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?
Not sure, I have no interest in having other people do things to my house, I do DIY.

I assume the answer to your question is \"sometimes\", based on what\'s been done to other houses previously. If it\'s double brick, they pump in stuff through drilled holes. If it\'s single brick, they attach foam sheets then put pebbledash over it.

My house is double brick with just an air gap. R of 6 is enough for me.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.
Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 1:03:56 PM UTC-7, Rich wrote:
In sci.electronics.equipment Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
I just bought an amp clamp meter, and it states the error is \"+/-
1.9% + 3 digits\". What does the \"3 digits\" part mean?

The \"3 digits\" part is a measure of absolute error (i.e., the amount of
error that does not depend upon the magnitude of the value being
measured). The percentage part is a measure of relative error (i.e.,
the amount of error that does depend upon the magnitude of the value
being measured).
That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched. It represents some
absolute errors (offset voltages) which include slow drifts. Resolution
in excess of that percentage error is useful only in close-timed determinations
relative to the amplifier or reference drift and ageing.
 
W

whit3rd

Guest
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 1:03:56 PM UTC-7, Rich wrote:
In sci.electronics.equipment Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
I just bought an amp clamp meter, and it states the error is \"+/-
1.9% + 3 digits\". What does the \"3 digits\" part mean?

The \"3 digits\" part is a measure of absolute error (i.e., the amount of
error that does not depend upon the magnitude of the value being
measured). The percentage part is a measure of relative error (i.e.,
the amount of error that does depend upon the magnitude of the value
being measured).
That\'s not the whole story; the percentage part is often a percentage
of the FULL RANGE to which the instrument is switched. It represents some
absolute errors (offset voltages) which include slow drifts. Resolution
in excess of that percentage error is useful only in close-timed determinations
relative to the amplifier or reference drift and ageing.
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Guest
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.
Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 00:27:57 +0100, Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
--------------------------


I\'d need to contract OCD to understand that.


** Lemme tell ya - you\'re already there.
Bullshit, I\'m one of the least OCD people there is. Just look at my grammar.
 
C

Commander Kinsey

Guest
On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 00:27:57 +0100, Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
--------------------------


I\'d need to contract OCD to understand that.


** Lemme tell ya - you\'re already there.
Bullshit, I\'m one of the least OCD people there is. Just look at my grammar.
 
C

Cydrome Leader

Guest
Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 04:26:12 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey@military.org.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:02:23 +0100, Cydrome Leader <presence@mungepanix.com> wrote:

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 19, 2020 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

... I just want to know how close to the correct reading the readout is. Adding another digit doesn\'t improve anything if it\'s incorrect. And shooting all the bullets in one place doesn\'t help if they all miss.

Not true; sometimes a reading difference doesn\'t have to be greater than the calibration error,
it still tells you something. Accuracy is not the only merit of an instrument, sensitivity
and precision matter.

A completely uncalibrated item (like a level or plumb bob) has no \'digits\' at all,
but is completely helpful.

Ha. There has to be some goverment lab, somwhere with cal stickers on
construction levels or a plumb bob.

Indeed. In Scotland, the government is actually considering throwing money around to produce pointless jobs to fit insulation into houses.

1) You don\'t create jobs for the sake of it, you might as well just hand that money to those workers.

2) We\'ve already got insulation from the last round of tax wasting.

3) If you want insulation, pay for it yourself.

Does this involve the insulation cladding or panels attached to the ouside
of building?

Not sure, I have no interest in having other people do things to my house, I do DIY.

I assume the answer to your question is \"sometimes\", based on what\'s been done to other houses previously. If it\'s double brick, they pump in stuff through drilled holes. If it\'s single brick, they attach foam sheets then put pebbledash over it.

My house is double brick with just an air gap. R of 6 is enough for me.
Fair enough. I noticed construction practices are very different by
country. We have some really flimbsy accepted practices in the US for new
construction. The obsession here with insulating everything results in
buildings that will mold and rot from the smallest of water leaks. You can
flood and older building and since it\'s not sealed up like a plastic
freezer bag, it will dry out and be fine. The codes vary from state to
state as well. Some places are more tolerant of fiery death traps and
buildings that collapse while being built.
 
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