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A

Arlen Holder

Guest
On 10 Oct 2020 15:27:35 GMT, Allodoxaphobia wrote:

Would you immature clods please take
your pissing contest to private email!
Hi Allodoxaphobia,

I certainly comprehend your intent, and, as an adult, I will comply.
o I will not further respond to the Fox\'s Mercantile troll in this thread.

I\'ve already proven my point of what Fox\'s Mercantile incessantly does.
o Which is, after all, directly & clearly where the condemnation lies.

And, as Jim Jackson agreed to a while ago...
o That proof is, by now, obvious to all those with adult cognitive skills

As such, I will end this direct proof of what Fox\'s Mercantile is...
o Which is he\'s nothing more than a worthless pieces of shit, ala Snit.

As we all know the Internet adage about \'dropping to their level\'...
o I understand that you lump me into the same category (erroneously so).

That\'s fine - as you might not fully comprehend my intent.
o Which is to stand up to these cowardly bullies who ruin Usenet for all.
--
I certainly comprehend your intent, and, as an adult, I will comply with
your wishes to ignore Fox\'s Mercantile in this thread. However I reserve
the right of self defense of the same strategy of proving what Fox\'s
Mercantile is, the _next_ time Fox\'s Mercantile unilaterally derails a
thread of mine asking for help on an on-topic question for s.e.r.,
which is, after all, what Snit loves to do (aka Fox\'s Mercantile).
 
J

Johann Beretta

Guest
On 10/4/20 5:59 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:

You can look up the Fresnel zone stuff separately, which, in my experience,
is more theoretical than practical since you just shove more directional
beam power to overcome the losses due to lack of height.
What the hell? Clearly you don\'t do this for a living.
 
J

Johann Beretta

Guest
On 10/6/20 4:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

To get some decent speeds, 5GHz
instead of 2.4GHz.
Generally speaking, yes. Practically speaking you can do several
hundred mbps over a 2.4 link. You just need to widen the channel.
 
A

Arlen Holder

Guest
On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 00:23:10 -0700, Johann Beretta wrote:

> Clearly you don\'t do this for a living.

That is an absolutely correct assessment.

You can advise the OP better than I on potential Fresnel Zone issues, as
he\'s apparently asking how best to paint a LOS location 800 feet away with
the transceiver on a pole I believe.

You can run the math to explain to him how high that pole may need to be.
(We do that stuff by trial and error - but you may know the math better.)

Please advise the OP on the math so he knows how high to mount the radio.
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Guest
On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 00:25:08 -0700, Johann Beretta
<beretta@nun-ya-bizness.com> wrote:

On 10/6/20 4:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

To get some decent speeds, 5GHz
instead of 2.4GHz.

Generally speaking, yes. Practically speaking you can do several
hundred mbps over a 2.4 link. You just need to widen the channel.
While there are 2.4GHz routers available that have a 40MHz channel
bandwidth setting, I prefer not to use it because it reduces the
available bandwidth to other users on 2.4GHz. If one is sufficiently
clueless to use a 40 MHz channel set to CH6, it will effectively
trash most of the 2.4GHz band. Since Wi-Fi pollution can be
symmetrical, it also makes the receiver susceptible to more
interference. Stay with 20MHz channel bandwidth on 2.4GHz.

On the other foot, the minimum channel bandwidth on 5GHz is 40MHz
(depending on channel selected) with an option to use 80MHz or 160MHz
for 802.11AC and AX (Wi-Fi 6).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5_GHz_or_5.9_GHz_(802.11a/h/j/n/ac/ax)>
With 1024-QAM, 802.11AX can theoretically do 1.2Gbits/sec in a 160MHz
channel. Your mileage will certainly be less.

The test below was to demonstrate something else. However, it does
show what can be done with 5GHz.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/FLUG-talk-2015-02-28/802.1a%20direct.jpg>
Unfortunately, the radios at both ends were only 802.11a, so the speed
never went above 75 Mbits/sec at a distance of about 5 meters. It
also uses Jperf 2.0.2, which doesn\'t work very well above 100
Mbit/sec. I should have used Iperf 3, which works well into the
gigabit range:
<https://iperf.fr/iperf-download.php>
My home network is now mostly gigabit, so I could easily run some 5GHz
performance tests with a later version of Iperf 3. However, no pretty
graphs as nobody has bothered to port the Java code to work with
Iperf3. I\'m a horrible programmist, so I won\'t attempt it.

Anyway, the performance limiting factor is usually interference from
co-channel users and noise sources. You could have all the bandwidth
in the world, the most efficient modulation scheme, maximum legal RF
power, and still not be able to communicate very well or far if there
is an interference source nearby. In other words, one needs to do
more than just \"widen the channel\".


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Guest
On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 07:45:18 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 00:23:10 -0700, Johann Beretta wrote:

Clearly you don\'t do this for a living.
That is an absolutely correct assessment.
By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.

You can advise the OP better than I on potential Fresnel Zone issues, as
he\'s apparently asking how best to paint a LOS location 800 feet away with
the transceiver on a pole I believe.

You can run the math to explain to him how high that pole may need to be.
(We do that stuff by trial and error - but you may know the math better.)
Sigh. I\'ve lost count how many times I\'ve done that in this
newsgroup. Start here:
<https://www.proxim.com/en/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-fresnel-clearance-zone>
800 ft is not far enough apart to worry about the curvature of the
earth.
800ft / 5280ft/mile = 0.152 miles
At 2.4Ghz, the Fresnel Zone is 9 ft radius at the midpoint of the
link. Therefore, the antenna at both ends of the link need to be at
least 9 ft off the ground, or 9 ft above any major obstructions
(fences, trees, buildings, cars, etc). Actually, it\'s somewhat more
complicated if I throw in fade margin, frequency selective fading, and
system availability, but we won\'t need to go there for this example.

At 5 GHz, the Fresnel Zone radius is only 6.3 ft. Therefore, the
antenna pole can be 2.7 feet shorter.

>Please advise the OP on the math so he knows how high to mount the radio.

Methinks we\'ve lost the OP long ago.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
F

Fox\'s Mercantile

Guest
On 10/14/20 9:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.
Well done sir.


--
\"I am a river to my people.\"
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
 
A

AnthonyL

Guest
On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 19:42:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 07:45:18 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2020 00:23:10 -0700, Johann Beretta wrote:

Clearly you don\'t do this for a living.
That is an absolutely correct assessment.

By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.
Congratulations. You\'ll now enjoyably find everything you knew
disappainting or being replaced by new kids on the block. I don\'t see
any of those filling your shoes here and I usually only bother to lurk
to see what you are posting.

You can advise the OP better than I on potential Fresnel Zone issues, as
he\'s apparently asking how best to paint a LOS location 800 feet away with
the transceiver on a pole I believe.

You can run the math to explain to him how high that pole may need to be.
(We do that stuff by trial and error - but you may know the math better.)
I\'ve run cantenna line-of-site over 400m reliably for years. I didn\'t
measure the fresnel zone but a farmer\'s apple tree in his front must
have encroached the signal line every few years and he would kindly
lop a few branches, restoring normal service. I have a note of the
speeds somewhere but the system gave me office access from home, home
broadband via the office and all I remember is that the Wi-Fi speed
was better than the rather poor broadband speed available at the end
of a long exchange line.

After moving several years ago from the little hamlet (60 properties)
the pathetic broadband (I think I had one of the best connections at
2mbps) was replaced by FTTP. I don\'t think I could have got mi Wi-Fi
signal to keep up with the resulting 80Mbps broadband. Those we now
Zoom with in that hamlet are always very clear and no blurring motion
issues - I\'m somewhat jealous.

(UK in case any folk are struggling to understand any terminology or
words).
--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
 
M

Mynne Doornink

Guest
Please send me
> Solution Manual Electronics : A Systems Approach (6th Ed., Neil Storey)

.. Thank you in advance!
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 10:42:58 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.
Enjoy your retirement, my friend! :)
 
S

Stephen Wolstenholme

Guest
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 10:42:58 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.

Enjoy your retirement, my friend! :)
I\'ve been retired for years. I find retirement to be less enjoyable
than any of the jobs I had.

Steve

--
http://www.npsnn.com
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Guest
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
<terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 10:42:58 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.

Enjoy your retirement, my friend! :)
Thanks. However, it\'s not easy to find enjoyment while trying to
adjust to Covid-19, dysfunctional government at all levels, impending
economic collapse, limits on travel, increasing weather related
problems, an increasing homeless problem, and probably increased taxes
to keep the economy afloat. Health problems and advancing age
increasingly limit my activities. I can survive on Social Security
payments and the 80% that Medicare provides, but suspect those
benefits to will eventually be reduced by inflation as the government
resorts to printing money to finance its activities. I expect my
\"retirement\" to more closely resemble living on unemployment with the
added bonus of having no debt and a modest bank account. Since I have
no children or immediate family, I could easily have obtained a
reverse mortgage on my house, and lived off the cash. However, the
recent fires in California might make that impossible due to
increasing difficulties obtaining replacement value fire insurance, a
basic requirement for a reverse mortgage. In other words, the long
term prospects for an enjoyable retirement look rather grim.

However, before I blunder on into this dismal future, I have an
immediate problem to deal with. I brought about 75% of the contents
of my formerly palatial office to my house when I moved out. There
was no time to do sorting, only time to box everything and move. I
moved it in small increments because I have no garage or storage space
at the house and because I had to carry the boxes up about 50 stairs.
The boxes are now piled up both inside and outside the house. Much of
it is covered with ash that is still falling from the trees due to the
recent nearby fires. Rain will likely arrive in a few weeks and
nothing outside is protected. I need to deal with that immediately,
but can\'t during the current heat waves. At least I won\'t be bored
looking for something to do.

Incidentally, it\'s now 6AM and 75F (24C) outside. NWS predicts the
temperature to rise to 101F (38C) today. I might be able to do 2-3
hrs of box shuffling today. It\'s likely that the local power company,
PG&E, will intentionally disconnect the power to prevent falling power
lines from starting more fires and to reduce the load on the power
grid from air conditioning.

Thanks again for the hopeful thoughts, but this is not the retirement
that I had planned and is unlikely to be enjoyable.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
M

Mike Coon

Guest
In article <1i6joflt8cof1o8df0acinusel8nkb2pdl@4ax.com>,
steve@easynn.com says...
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 10:42:58 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.

Enjoy your retirement, my friend! :)

I\'ve been retired for years. I find retirement to be less enjoyable
than any of the jobs I had.

Steve
That\'s sad. Cannot you pretend to be your own slave-driver boss? (Or is
it the money that is the problem; pretending does not work so well
there...)
 
P

pfjw@aol.com

Guest
Given the price of real-estate, and the cost-of-living in Santa Cruz, given that you are apparently single, given that you are apparently not overly happy about the climate, have you ever considered relocating to a more amenable part of the country? When we moved 12 years ago (just across the township), it was akin to shedding a skin. The divestiture of unneeded *stuff* was pretty immense and very cleansing. We have been vary careful not to re-acquire since. It really does make a difference. But, a more distant move in your case may solve a number of financial, physical and logistic issues all at once.

Best of luck with it. My wife is retired, my identified date is June 30, 2022 when my major tenant ends its lease. Until then, my wife and I are busy \'feathering our nests\" so that when we retired and our income drops by six figures we will have few expenses and no debt on what amounts to be two very nearly maintenance-free houses.

Take care!
 
F

Fox\'s Mercantile

Guest
On 10/16/20 11:20 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
That\'s sad. Cannot you pretend to be your own slave-driver boss? (Or is
it the money that is the problem; pretending does not work so well
there...)
That\'s funny. I\'ve worked for assholes my own life.
I\'m self employed now.
Wouldn\'t you know it, I\'m still working for an asshole.


--
\"I am a river to my people.\"
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
 
M

Michael Terrell

Guest
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 9:40:52 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 10:42:58 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

By the way, I officially retired on Sept 30, 2020. The office is
closed, the bank accounts emptied, and much of the equipment donated
or sold.

Enjoy your retirement, my friend! :)
Thanks. However, it\'s not easy to find enjoyment while trying to
adjust to Covid-19, dysfunctional government at all levels, impending
economic collapse, limits on travel, increasing weather related
problems, an increasing homeless problem, and probably increased taxes
to keep the economy afloat. Health problems and advancing age
increasingly limit my activities. I can survive on Social Security
payments and the 80% that Medicare provides, but suspect those
benefits to will eventually be reduced by inflation as the government
resorts to printing money to finance its activities. I expect my
\"retirement\" to more closely resemble living on unemployment with the
added bonus of having no debt and a modest bank account. Since I have
no children or immediate family, I could easily have obtained a
reverse mortgage on my house, and lived off the cash. However, the
recent fires in California might make that impossible due to
increasing difficulties obtaining replacement value fire insurance, a
basic requirement for a reverse mortgage. In other words, the long
term prospects for an enjoyable retirement look rather grim.

However, before I blunder on into this dismal future, I have an
immediate problem to deal with. I brought about 75% of the contents
of my formerly palatial office to my house when I moved out. There
was no time to do sorting, only time to box everything and move. I
moved it in small increments because I have no garage or storage space
at the house and because I had to carry the boxes up about 50 stairs.
The boxes are now piled up both inside and outside the house. Much of
it is covered with ash that is still falling from the trees due to the
recent nearby fires. Rain will likely arrive in a few weeks and
nothing outside is protected. I need to deal with that immediately,
but can\'t during the current heat waves. At least I won\'t be bored
looking for something to do.

Incidentally, it\'s now 6AM and 75F (24C) outside. NWS predicts the
temperature to rise to 101F (38C) today. I might be able to do 2-3
hrs of box shuffling today. It\'s likely that the local power company,
PG&E, will intentionally disconnect the power to prevent falling power
lines from starting more fires and to reduce the load on the power
grid from air conditioning.

Thanks again for the hopeful thoughts, but this is not the retirement
that I had planned and is unlikely to be enjoyable.
I didn\'t plan on becoming 100% disabled in my late 50s. My last day of work for someone else was the Friday before 9/11. I kept busy working on computers for others who couldn\'t afford to take them to a shop. I can no longer even do that. My legs are so bad that I have to prop them up more than 10 out of 24 hours to keep the scar tissue from opening. I couldn\'t do it last night. There was a large puddle of plasma under my left foot this morning. I deal with it, but only having two hours a day to do everything is a real pain. I had two bad falls in the past year. It looks like I\'m going to have to go to a walker or power chair before long. Why not open a Ebay store to list what you don\'t want to keep, as you sort out the boxes? It will help you get rid of some stuff, and hopefully give you some extra cash.

God Bless you, my friend!
 
S

Sqwertz

Guest
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 06:40:42 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Michael Terrell
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote:

Enjoy your retirement, my friend! :)

Thanks. However, it\'s not easy to find enjoyment while trying to
adjust to Covid-19, dysfunctional government at all levels, impending
economic collapse, limits on travel, increasing weather related
problems, an increasing homeless problem, and probably increased taxes
to keep the economy afloat. Health problems and advancing age
increasingly limit my activities. I can survive on Social Security
payments and the 80% that Medicare provides, but suspect those
benefits to will eventually be reduced by inflation as the government
resorts to printing money to finance its activities. I expect my
\"retirement\" to more closely resemble living on unemployment with the
added bonus of having no debt and a modest bank account. Since I have
no children or immediate family, I could easily have obtained a
reverse mortgage on my house, and lived off the cash. However, the
recent fires in California might make that impossible due to
increasing difficulties obtaining replacement value fire insurance, a
basic requirement for a reverse mortgage. In other words, the long
term prospects for an enjoyable retirement look rather grim.

However, before I blunder on into this dismal future, I have an
immediate problem to deal with. I brought about 75% of the contents
of my formerly palatial office to my house when I moved out. There
was no time to do sorting, only time to box everything and move. I
moved it in small increments because I have no garage or storage space
at the house and because I had to carry the boxes up about 50 stairs.
The boxes are now piled up both inside and outside the house. Much of
it is covered with ash that is still falling from the trees due to the
recent nearby fires. Rain will likely arrive in a few weeks and
nothing outside is protected. I need to deal with that immediately,
but can\'t during the current heat waves. At least I won\'t be bored
looking for something to do.

Incidentally, it\'s now 6AM and 75F (24C) outside. NWS predicts the
temperature to rise to 101F (38C) today. I might be able to do 2-3
hrs of box shuffling today. It\'s likely that the local power company,
PG&E, will intentionally disconnect the power to prevent falling power
lines from starting more fires and to reduce the load on the power
grid from air conditioning.

Thanks again for the hopeful thoughts, but this is not the retirement
that I had planned and is unlikely to be enjoyable.
I see alchemy as your next hobby: Turning all that computer stuff
into Gold! In which case you don\'t have to move any of. Rain won\'t
hurt it.

I know it\'s hard to let go, but .....

-sw
 
S

Sqwertz

Guest
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 22:19:23 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

I see alchemy as your next hobby: Turning all that computer stuff
into Gold! In which case you don\'t have to move any of. Rain won\'t
hurt it.

I know it\'s hard to let go, but .....
So I was curious and youtubed it....This guy got $1,900 worth (about
an ounce) of .99% gold from 6 pounds of clipped OLDER PCB
connectors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3cqZ5kqEB4

I suspect getting chemistry glass and HCL delivered to the Santa
Cruz mountains may be difficult and raise some eyebrows. Or used
to. It\'s kinda pointless to manufacture domestic meth anymore since
it\'s so cheap from Mexico, so they may have deregulated that stuff.

Food for thought...

-sw
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

Guest
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 20:50:05 -0500, Chuck <chuck23@dejanews.net>
wrote:

Jeff, Austin TX., Portland Maine, and Madison WI. are terrific cities.
If safety, beautiful scenery and incredible restaurants are top on
your list, I\'d consider Portland.
Austin, TX.
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=move+to+austin+texas>

Portland, Maine.
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=move+to+portland+maine>

Madison, WI.
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=move+to+madison+wisconsin>

I dunno. It appears to me that some residents are resorting to making
YouTube video to discourage immigrants. I can almost visualize being
greeted by a lynch mob. So much for safety.

Incidentally, I haven\'t been to a restaurant since late February 2020.
I really miss them. I used to hang out at the local coffee shops
meeting others with like interests. Zoom meetings are a poor
substitute. On the other hand, my food, entertainment, and gasoline
budgets have been dramatically reduced, I\'ve lost some weight, I\'m
sloooooowly learning how to cook, and I\'ve forgotten how to calculate
a tip. Eventually, the pandemic will end, and I\'ll probably return to
my former decadent and lavish lifestyle. Until then, I think I can
survive without restaurants, fast food, and coffee shops.

More seriously, I\'ve looked into selling my house and buying something
cheaper elsewhere. I\'d rather not go into detail, but it\'s not going
to work for me. If I discount my house and convince a buyer to buy
the house as-is (after a full disclosure), the difference between the
discounted selling price and the purchase price of a replacement
house, will be rapidly consumed by the sales commissions, moving
expenses, repairs, deposits, etc. At best, it would be break even.

Also, I don\'t like cities. I grew up in Smog Angeles, which is an
example of a city to avoid. If I do eventually move elsewhere, it
will probably be to a small rural town similar to where I\'m now
living.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Lomond,_California>
If I want better entertainment, shopping, medical facilities, and
restaurants offered by the big city, I\'ll just drive there. I don\'t
need to live there.

Thanks for the suggestions.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 
A

Arthur Conan Doyle

Guest
Sqwertz <sqwertzme@gmail.invalid> wrote:

It\'s kinda pointless to manufacture domestic meth anymore since
it\'s so cheap from Mexico, so they may have deregulated that stuff.
Afraid not. The stupid federal regulation about restricting the amount of
pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) that can be sold to an individual and requiring it be
sold blister packs still exists.
 
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