Jihad needs scientists

In article <63c23$453cf3f2$49ecff9$26858@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
unsettled <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote:
Lloyd Parker wrote:

In article <ehfndt$8qk_013@s799.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

In article <453A5164.754CBC24@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


unsettled wrote:


Eeyore wrote:


The survey was to determine death rates from all causes pre and post
war. Quite simple really.

Pre-war of course there weren't any deaths from either US killings or
any insurgents.

And of course you faithfully believe Saddam's historical
records as being accurate and true! Bwahahahahahaha

The figures for the pre-war era encountered by the group tally with CIA
figures !

What era? And there aren't death certificates for those
in hidden mass graves. So any person asked about people
they know who died couldn't have shown a certificate.
This person who disappeared could have been reported by
10 households. Do you not see a problem in collected
unique datums?

/BAH


So if anything, the prewar deaths are over-reported, since you're relying
on
people to tell you, and for post-war deaths, you have death certificates.

No bannana for this one either. When you have bad data
you are not in any position to decide it has some other
value that makes it useful.

Some deaths are over reported. Others are unreported.
Still others are correctly reported. How can you
draw any valid conclusions out of such data. You might
hazzard a guess, but hazzard is the operative word
whenever you try that.

Wouldn't the standard deviation of hazzard guesses be +-50%?

/BAH
 
In article <676fc$453b76e5$4fe75d1$17105@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
unsettled <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
snip

Do these people own no logic circuits in their brains?

Lucas & Wake have trouble nustering a single correctly
functioning neuron between them.
I realize that. It a serious problem and you should be very
worried about their kind of thinking because it is becoming
the politcally correct way to think. This will cause political
leaders who pander the same way to be elected. These people
will make the decision to not deal with Islamic extremists.
They will deny reality until it is too late to do anything
about it. There one difference between WWII and now. Today's
technology is sophisticated enough to wipe out 75% of the
world's population within 12 months. Even in the black plague
days, the creep of death waves took longer.

This is why trying to dismiss these people with name calling
is not an acceptable tactic.

/BAH
 
In article <ehj7op$h3g$2@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:
In article <e1423$453cf4ae$49ecff9$26900@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
unsettled <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote:
Lloyd Parker wrote:

In article <ehfnmn$8qk_014@s799.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

In article <C6ednV0xVsTyoKfYRVnyjQ@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehd5ug$8qk_010@s884.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <45378D92.1903B626@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:


lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:


They gave their 95% confidence interval.

The news said that the questions that were asked was if
anybody knew anybody who died. Adding these up will not
give a correct count.

The 'news' was wrong then.

In most cases ( ~90 % ) a death certificate was shown.

And the death certificates said that all the deaths were
due to US killing them?

What has the US killing them being the cause of death got to do with
anything?

It has everything to do with it since you are using
the report that rate has increased since the US went into
Iraq. See your comment below. I shall star it so that
you cannot miss your implication.


Have you read the posts you are replying to?

Yes. Now read your words below.

If the US attacks destroyed a water pipe and someone died from drinking
polluted water, what would the cause of death be recorded as?

The study looked at numbers and rates of deaths.

Now here you go..implying that the US has caused more deaths
than Saddam would have if he had remained in power.


Well, that's obvious. What has changed in the last 3 years?


One thing that's changed is that insurgents are killing
the local population. Deaths resulting from government
actions is way down.

And total deaths are way up.


Now you may wish to attribute the insurgency to US actions,
but there's no valid cause/effect relationship.

The hell there isn't. Bush's own NIE says our presence there is fueling
insurgents.
Now we're back to the beginning. Whacking that mole started this
long thread.

We'll have think of name for this; it's a law of threads.


/BAH
 
In article <k4uqj2tih5dpatici8qeesbi8otu4gp5p1@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

<snip>

I wonder if any really new life forms are evolving now, right under
our eyes.
Ah-choo! [emoticon picks nose] Yep.

/BAH
 
In article <ehilc2$rv0$11@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:
In article <ehi3q8$8qk_004@s784.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <ehafo7$ot9$1@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:
In article <ehab1j$8qk_001@s949.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1161169073.347610.229970@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,


The people I've been talking to appear to believe that only
the US government knows how to make these things.



They
seem to believe that only the US government can OK
all chemical invoices.


Weapons? Yes. Certain chemicals? Yes again.

Our business and politics do not
work that way. I think a lot Europeans are confused by
this because their businesses are generally government
controlled.

A total lie. Europe is very capitalistic.

Not the labor. Labor is union.


So? Takes both capital and labor to make anything. Besides, you said
"government controlled."

and/or union controlled

Aw, corporations give their workers a voice in how they're run. Gee, what
a
radical idea. Straight out of biblical-era communes and Pilgrim New
England.

espeically in the
manufacturing and mining areas.

In the US, the federal government isn't allowed to do anything.

Except start wars.

When the nation is threatened, yes. It's in our Constitution.

And is it unconstitutional to do so when we're not threatened?
Yes. The purpose of the Constitution was to give very limited
powers to the Federation, keeping all the rest within each
state.

That was written that way so that the states didn't war
among themselves. Disputes are settles in courts of law
rather than killing fields. The people who met at
the Constitutional Convention did not want to go through
the hundreds of years' war that Europe meandered in.
<snip>

And what is Bush doing but taking away our basic liberties?
Name one so we have something concrete to talk about. Note
that Bush needs Congressional approval for what he does do.
So I want you to name one liberty that Bush, the person, has
removed.

/BAH
 
In article <48c%g.19686$6S3.1431@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
<lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
"unsettled" <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote in message
news:856de$453d290d$49ed52d$28493@DIALUPUSA.NET...
lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:

"unsettled" <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote in message
news:9d61d$453cfc77$49ecff9$27195@DIALUPUSA.NET...

lucasea@sbcglobal.net wrote:


"unsettled" <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote in message
news:cf679$453cf606$49ecff9$26900@DIALUPUSA.NET...


Lloyd Parker wrote:



In article <ehi3q8$8qk_004@s784.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:



In article <ehafo7$ot9$1@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:



In article <ehab1j$8qk_001@s949.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:



In the US, the federal government isn't allowed to do anything.

Except start wars.

When the nation is threatened, yes. It's in our Constitution.

And is it unconstitutional to do so when we're not threatened?

In our system, anything not prohibited is permitted.


Uh, sorry, no...the Constitution *specifically* limits the powers of the
Federal government to those listed in the Constitution.

Did you not read what I just wrote? Is your brain incapable of
understanding that "specifically limits" is a prohibition?



Uh, no..."specifically limits" says what they can do. Anything else is
prohibited, not permitted.

Precisely. So everything which is not prohibited is permitted,
exactly as I wrote.

You need to brush up on your propositional logic. "A implies B" is not the
same as "(not A) implies (not B)".
And unsettled was talking about C.

/BAH
 
In article <obeqj25dhnhpo19q90c1s4vtdrticvi04o@4ax.com>,
Jonathan Kirwan <jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:13:35 -0500, unsettled <unsettled@nonsense.com
wrote:

snip
In our system, anything not prohibited is permitted.
snip

That shows such horrible ignorance and it is exactly the kind of thing
that Hamilton wrote about "back in the day."

Scares me spitless that anyone actually believes that crap about what
government is permitted to do.
Go back and reread the thread before unsettled's statement.
The subject was businesses in the USA. Not the government,
not the people, not anything but business.

I was talking about how the US government has very little
power over what a business does to make money. Unless
the business involves national security, there isn't much
the feds can do. The seive holes are getting bigger but
that's why we have the judicial branch.

OTOH, a country whose economics is based in socialism has
to give permission for everything new.

/BAH

You should read a little, though I'm sure the 3 or 4 books you may
have in your home (likely unread) probably don't address the subject,
at all.

Jon
 
In article <ehildp$rv0$12@leto.cc.emory.edu>,
lparker@emory.edu (Lloyd Parker) wrote:
In article <ehi52h$8qk_007@s784.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <453C44D7.540280C@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Funny, you've offered no solutions to the problems that have been
created
by the current administration.

STate a problem. You keep contending that Iraq is one. It is
not.

It's all going badly wrong in Iraq right now.

Of course it is. The goal is to Democrats in power in the US
elections.

Whose goal ?

The Islamic extremists. Based on past history, they believe
that Democrats will not retaliate with swift and deadly force
when their next mess is made against the US.

/BAH
The Democrats supported action in Afghanistan.
Yup. And Kerry's campaign for president, both in 2003 and now,
is to promise to go back and wage that war all over again.

Bush's invasion of Iraq, OTOH,
had nothing to do with the US being attacked.
It is one step in the stragegy. It is a necessary step. It was
also the only step that could produce good results with minimum
risk. This is still true unless the Democrats succeed in
diverting the world from the original threat. They seem to
be succeeding. The Republican running for governor in my state
has already lost the election because of one thing she failed
to do in last week's debate.

/BAH
 
In article <453CBD2E.2081C49F@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

STate a problem. You keep contending that Iraq is one. It is
not.

It's all going badly wrong in Iraq right now.

Of course it is. The goal is to Democrats in power in the US
elections.

Whose goal ?

The Islamic extremists. Based on past history, they believe
that Democrats will not retaliate with swift and deadly force
when their next mess is made against the US.

And do pray tell me how these extremists can influence the elections in the
USA.
Ben Ladin said he would stop attacking if the voters voted for
Kerry. There was a news item that a similar ad is playing on
that al jazeer network. I haven't checked that one out.

/BAH
 
In article <453DA904.61F1CEC3@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
unsettled wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

It's all going badly wrong in Iraq right now.

Of course it is. The goal is to Democrats in power in the US
elections.

Whose goal ?


The Islamic extremists. Based on past history, they believe
that Democrats will not retaliate with swift and deadly force
when their next mess is made against the US.

As has been demonstrated in the past.

Really ? The actions of the Republicans has made things far worse IMO.
If Bush hadn't organized, the bombs in the Underground would have
blasted that infrastucture to inoperability. There would have
been more airplanes used as bombs. Spain would have had more
crippling of its infrastructure. Afghanistan would still be
training new recruits. The Islamic moderates would still be
in hidden in their closets. Nobody would be trying to keep
Iran from deploying atomic bombs. Women would not be gaining
access to mobility and education in Saudi Arabia. Pakistan would
still be exporting its atomic bomb knowledge without restraint.

Should I go on?

/BAH
 
In article <RT3%g.23038$7I1.13549@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
<lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehi52h$8qk_007@s784.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
In article <453C44D7.540280C@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
lucasea@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Funny, you've offered no solutions to the problems that have been
created
by the current administration.

STate a problem. You keep contending that Iraq is one. It is
not.

It's all going badly wrong in Iraq right now.

Of course it is. The goal is to Democrats in power in the US
elections.

Whose goal ?

The Islamic extremists. Based on past history, they believe
that Democrats will not retaliate with swift and deadly force
when their next mess is made against the US.

Ahh...so *that's* why the picked a Republican presidency to carry out their
worst attack in history against anybody, ever. Now I understand your logic.
No, the plans were made during Clinton's adminstration. The first
bombing did not produce much reaction. Plans were made for a
second bombing. None of this happened when Bush was president.

Do get your timelines straight.

/BAH
 
In article <6qSdndc6PtVrmqDYRVnyjQ@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehi55a$8qk_008@s784.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
In article <453A24D6.FD9A2EED@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Why not start listening to and watching the BBC
?

I have and I do. I now listen to the BBC to see which
slant of surrendering to the Islamic extremists they
are taking that day.

Amazing. Can you let me know when you come across any please?

Any report about the Palestinians will give you a start.

You think the BBC has surrendered to the Palestinians ?

No. That will be the consequence.


Of what?
Choosing to protray groups of people, whose goal is to
destroy production, as good guys who should be pitied
and aided in their endeavors, will have the result
of the society that produces these programs to surrender.

/BAH
 
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

The demonstration was to free a Nazi rock star. I think it
said he's been in jail for 3 years.
Nazi rock star ?

What drugs are you on ?

Graham
 
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

In the 1930s Germany still had
the capability of becoming a world power in military terms. This is no
longer the case.

Isn't it trying to run the EU economics show?
No. The European Central Bank is.


The news
over here implies that France and Germany as the main
players. All those other countries seem to get no
attention.
Your news is crap in that case.

Graham
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:4iitj2p030albnbvi4ssev39j7ge23lq82@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:47:01 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:


For every hundred thousand crackpot ideas there is one brilliant one. How
should people react to new ideas?

By *thinking* about them!
For how long? Also this assumes that people don't think about them *at all*
before they dismiss them. Often the new idea is thought about, maybe for a
second or two, before it is dismissed as crackpot.

This is not a bad thing.
 
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

unsettled <unsettled@nonsense.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:


Do these people own no logic circuits in their brains?

Lucas & Wake have trouble nustering a single correctly
functioning neuron between them.

I realize that. It a serious problem and you should be very
worried about their kind of thinking because it is becoming
the politcally correct way to think.
Actually it's simply rational thinking as opposed to the lunacy you're
in love with.

Graham
 
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehndut$8qk_001@s885.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
In article <5bmdnTiQpMD62KPYnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehl0hs$8qk_001@s772.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
In article <xeidnaGqVPjT7abYnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehfm39$8qk_006@s799.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

No, it is not valid within this context. You do know that
the Creed starts out with "I believe...".

It is still valid. I honestly believe in Newtonian Gravity being the
best
description of gravity in the domain in which it applies.

I don't believe it. I demonstrated it when I did my labs.

You still believe it is the _best_ description of gravity. Tomorrow some
one
may overhaul Newtonian gravity and explain that it is actually incorrect
because of [insert reason here]. This is not prohibited by anything in the
scientific method.

No. No matter how the concept is refined, the lab method worked.
I can then use that method to predict similar setups. That's
how science works.
I know how science works.

We [tinw] believe that Newtonian gravity is the best description of what
happens. Your lab experiment is limited by your equipment and your
understanding of what you are observing.

A new theory which matches the previous predictions and makes new
(sucessfully) testable ones will overhaul the old one. Until that happens we
[tinw] believe that the current theory is the *best*.

That is how science works.

You believe that the experiments you have carried out are valid tests of
the
theory.

Belief is a prevalent concept and the religious extremists should not be
allowed to hijack it for their own use.

Belief, as you use the word here, stops at the hypothesis step
in the Scientific Method. When I demonstrate a reproducible
aspect of physical science, I can then use that aspect as a
building block for new stuff.
Because you *believe* in the validity of the scientific method. Science is
not mathematics and scientific "proofs" are very, very different to
mathematical ones.

History is replete with scientific "facts" which were later falsified by
experiment or new theory. A theory is only valid until someone falsifies it.
This requires some level of belief, whether or not you wish to admit this.

This work process is not unlike the operating system history
of the computing biz. It started out using machine language.
Eventually, assemblers were written to create more complex
code tricks. Then compilers were written so that one didn't have
to worry about how the underlying hardware worked.
Because every one assumes (believes) it just works that way.

This is not
something which can be "known" as tomorrow some one may come up with a
better description.

Does this open the floodgates for the Religious Right to send me to
hell?

When you try to make a religious creed out of science, yes. And
they will do everything they can to prevent their kids from getting
exposed to the Devil's words.

Who is trying to make a religious creed out of science? The Religious
Right
seem to be trying it as much as anyone else (eg. Dawkins).

I tried to explain. Apparently I was using Martian when I wrote
that one up.
As usual.

<snip>
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:vnitj25natap4oknal6rv0mi9g77spvtgk@4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:56:33 +0100, "T Wake"
usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:

Isn't that how Hitler got started?

Yes. However Germany is not suffering a massive economic depression and
smarting from a recent, unfair, peace treaty. In the 1930s Germany still
had
the capability of becoming a world power in military terms. This is no
longer the case.


Especially so as the Brits and French and Russians have nukes.
:) Even little ones can be useful :)
 
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ehnadm$8ss_003@s885.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
In article <YMidnRe1eI5f2KPYnZ2dnUVZ8t2dnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
snip
There is an upswell in right wing organisations getting public support
across Europe, but this is not quite the same.

Isn't that how Hitler got started?

Yes. However Germany is not suffering a massive economic depression and
smarting from a recent, unfair, peace treaty.

That isn't the only thing that can trigger an economic depression.
Never said it was. Germany is not in a depression.

In the 1930s Germany still had
the capability of becoming a world power in military terms. This is no
longer the case.

Isn't it trying to run the EU economics show?
No more so than France.

The news
over here implies that France and Germany as the main
players.
Unlike 1930s Germany. France and Germany are closely aligned at times, but
at others they are not so. EU politics are no different than the rest of the
world.

All those other countries seem to get no
attention.
News is not always accurate.
 

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