EU lead-free directive

P

Peter

Guest
Hi,

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

This could be a serious problem for any company that is slowly running
down a stock of old chips. These won't be lead-free, and neither will
be any chips purchased from the many used chip vendors who pass on
surplus stock. I expect a lot of their business will dry up since many
companies are requiring *zero* lead content on *all* components.

Any views?
 
On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:43:25 +0100, in sci.electronics.design
z180@nospam24.com (Peter) wrote:

Hi,

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?
snip
Any views?
LOL,
Click to expand...

we could use all that spare depleted uranium that's hanging around




martin
 
Peter wrote:

Hi,

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

This could be a serious problem for any company that is slowly running
down a stock of old chips. These won't be lead-free, and neither will
be any chips purchased from the many used chip vendors who pass on
surplus stock. I expect a lot of their business will dry up since many
companies are requiring *zero* lead content on *all* components.

Any views?
Click to expand...
I heard that too, that you can pass the limits by
delivering the electronics on top of a 5 pound solid
steel slab. That is almost infinitely silly.

Since the leaded cases can easily be combined with the
rest of the leadfree technology, eg leadfree pcb,
leadfree solder, ... I'd just use up the stock
and just don't tell anyone.

Rene
 
Peter schrieb:

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....
Click to expand...
It works on a per-material basis.

This could be a serious problem for any company that is slowly running
down a stock of old chips. These won't be lead-free, and neither will
be any chips purchased from the many used chip vendors who pass on
surplus stock. I expect a lot of their business will dry up since many
companies are requiring *zero* lead content on *all* components.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a problem, and it has already been discussed here and elsewhere.

--
Dipl.-Ing. Tilmann Reh
http://www.autometer.de - Elektronik nach Maß.
 
Rene Tschaggelar schrieb:

Since the leaded cases can easily be combined with the
rest of the leadfree technology, eg leadfree pcb,
leadfree solder, ... I'd just use up the stock
and just don't tell anyone.
Click to expand...
You're wrong, it works vice versa: you can easily use lead-free parts in a
lead-containing process (except for BGAs, and unless the higher soldering
temperature won't damage the older parts that were built for lower temperatures).
Once you have switched to leadfree solder in the wave soldering machine, any
lead-containing part (especially PCBs with HAL) will contaminate the solder. Of
course you need /many/ parts before the solder reaches 0.1% lead...

(SMT/Reflow is much simpler in this concern, as the solder does not touch
anything else.)

--
Dipl.-Ing. Tilmann Reh
http://www.autometer.de - Elektronik nach Maß.
 
Tilmann Reh <tilmannreh@despammed.com> wrote:

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

It works on a per-material basis.
Click to expand...
What does this mean?
 
Peter schrieb:

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

It works on a per-material basis.

What does this mean?
Click to expand...
Each material must be RoHS conform, for example contain less than 0.1% lead
(similar tresholds exist for the other "evil" substances).

As an example, often an IC is used: it consists of
a) the die itself
b) the leadframe
c) the expoxy encasing
d) the surface finish of the leads.

*Each* of these materials must conform to the RoHS directive.

Another example is a simple cable, where the metal wire is defined as a single
material and the plastic insulation as another material, and both must conform
to the RoHS limits.

For assembled boards, this extents to the PCB base material, its surface finish
(HAL) where it persists after soldering, the solder, and all parts (for those
see above).

--
Dipl.-Ing. Tilmann Reh
http://www.autometer.de - Elektronik nach Maß.
 
Tilmann Reh <tilmannreh@despammed.com> wrote:

Each material must be RoHS conform, for example contain less than 0.1% lead
(similar tresholds exist for the other "evil" substances).

As an example, often an IC is used: it consists of
a) the die itself
b) the leadframe
c) the expoxy encasing
d) the surface finish of the leads.

*Each* of these materials must conform to the RoHS directive.

Another example is a simple cable, where the metal wire is defined as a single
material and the plastic insulation as another material, and both must conform
to the RoHS limits.

For assembled boards, this extents to the PCB base material, its surface finish
(HAL) where it persists after soldering, the solder, and all parts (for those
see above).
Click to expand...
Thank you for the explanation. This in effect means that chips (SMT ot
PTH) with leaded solder on their legs cannot be used.

There will be a LOT of stock being scrapped. Smaller companies will
just lie :) Remove the datecodes on any such chips of course, as
anything dated before about 2004 isn't likely to be ROHS compliant.

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....
 
On Tue, 31 May 2005 14:16:10 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar <none@none.net>
wrote:

[...]
I heard that too, that you can pass the limits by
delivering the electronics on top of a 5 pound solid
steel slab. That is almost infinitely silly.
Click to expand...
I am reminded of a mass-produced packaged "lunch" sold by a well-known
American company that consists of crackers, lunch meat (e.g., cold
ham, turkey, or sausage), cheese slices, a small candy bar, and a
container of fruit juice. Because of the labeling laws in the U.S.,
the weight of the juice was included in the weight of the product, and
the weight of "fat" as a proportion of the total weight of the product
was below a specified threshold, so it could be sold as "low fat."

Regards,

-=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
 
Peter wrote:

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....
Click to expand...
The car batteries are supposedly recycled. The last
report I've seen though suggests partly otherwise.
There was valley in serbia or so having a train
station and the purpose of the valley was to dump
lead acid batteries. They threw them off the train
into the mud. Squarekilometers of batteries in the
mud. Somewhere at the bottom of the valley there
was a hut where a few men melted the lead with
open flames. Yep, a decade or so ago. But they made
good money and worked to everyones, aka our exporters,
interest, so I assume this business is still running.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
 
"Peter" <z180@nospam24.com> schreef in bericht
news:unfo91l75645teuplpd7omgonj2nndst2m@4ax.com...
Hi,

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

This could be a serious problem for any company that is slowly running
down a stock of old chips. These won't be lead-free, and neither will
be any chips purchased from the many used chip vendors who pass on
surplus stock. I expect a lot of their business will dry up since many
companies are requiring *zero* lead content on *all* components.

Any views?
Click to expand...
It's laws and directives on one side, and people and companies not
(fully) complying with them on the other side. It has always been
that way. So you can take a risk, pay a fine if you get caught, and
probably a very damn small one, if you explain your situation. Soup
is not consumed as hot as it is prepared.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
 
Peter schrieb:

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....
Click to expand...
Exactly. And particularly these are one of the exceptions, and will be used
without any change.

--
Dipl.-Ing. Tilmann Reh
http://www.autometer.de - Elektronik nach Maß.
 
On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:19:47 +0200, the renowned Rene Tschaggelar
<none@none.net> wrote:

Peter wrote:

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....


The car batteries are supposedly recycled. The last
report I've seen though suggests partly otherwise.
There was valley in serbia or so having a train
station and the purpose of the valley was to dump
lead acid batteries. They threw them off the train
into the mud. Squarekilometers of batteries in the
mud. Somewhere at the bottom of the valley there
was a hut where a few men melted the lead with
open flames. Yep, a decade or so ago. But they made
good money and worked to everyones, aka our exporters,
interest, so I assume this business is still running.

Rene
Click to expand...
AFAIUI, automotive lead-acid batteries are 96%+ domestically recycled
here (under stringent environmental controls).

I suspect the numbers are far less for SLA batteries used in alarm
systems toy cars and scooters etc.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
In article <fn2p911tnss1givcg7agkd28viqopd66jr@4ax.com>,
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat says...
On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:19:47 +0200, the renowned Rene Tschaggelar
none@none.net> wrote:

Peter wrote:

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....


The car batteries are supposedly recycled. The last
report I've seen though suggests partly otherwise.
There was valley in serbia or so having a train
station and the purpose of the valley was to dump
lead acid batteries. They threw them off the train
into the mud. Squarekilometers of batteries in the
mud. Somewhere at the bottom of the valley there
was a hut where a few men melted the lead with
open flames. Yep, a decade or so ago. But they made
good money and worked to everyones, aka our exporters,
interest, so I assume this business is still running.

Rene

AFAIUI, automotive lead-acid batteries are 96%+ domestically recycled
here (under stringent environmental controls).

I suspect the numbers are far less for SLA batteries used in alarm
systems toy cars and scooters etc.
Click to expand...
And probaly higher for industrial EVs

Robert
 
Peter wrote:
[...]

Thank you for the explanation. This in effect means that chips (SMT ot
PTH) with leaded solder on their legs cannot be used.

There will be a LOT of stock being scrapped. Smaller companies will
just lie :) Remove the datecodes on any such chips of course, as
anything dated before about 2004 isn't likely to be ROHS compliant.

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....
Click to expand...
Not really, considering the usually responsible way used up batteries are
dealt with, and the usually convenient way used up electronics are dealt
with.
 
Hello Bryan,

A really stupid regulation, given the huge amount of lead used in car
batteries for example....

Not really, considering the usually responsible way used up batteries are
dealt with, and the usually convenient way used up electronics are dealt
with.
Click to expand...
Car batteries yes. Mostly. But what about those things with sealed lead
acid batteries in them?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
GMM50 wrote:
Note that this requirement will probably trickle down to the engineer.
Management will ask the eng. to state that the product complies.
Guess who gets the blame.

gm
Click to expand...
Speaking of who gets blamed, I once insisted on working a contract type
job as an employee. It was medical equipment. Anybody sues us, they
can't sue an employee, as they could a subcontractor.

--
Luhan Monat: luhanis(at)yahoo(dot)com
http://members.cox.net/berniekm
"Any sufficiently advanced magick is
indistinguishable from technology."
 
On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:43:25 +0100, z180@nospam24.com (Peter) wrote:

Hi,

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

This could be a serious problem for any company that is slowly running
down a stock of old chips. These won't be lead-free, and neither will
be any chips purchased from the many used chip vendors who pass on
surplus stock. I expect a lot of their business will dry up since many
companies are requiring *zero* lead content on *all* components.

Any views?
Click to expand...
Sorry, that was an interesting interpretation, was tried and caused
sqeals of protest from the EU tech committes.

It was 0.1% of ANY homogenous material, not the total weight.
Homogenous was defined as any material that canot be mechanically
divided.

Maybe the French saying "stick your constitution where the sun don't
shine" will give them something else to think about, instead of crazy
lead-free rules and dictates.

Barry Lennox
 
Hello Barry,

Homogenous was defined as any material that canot be mechanically
divided.
Click to expand...
Doesn't open that a door to another interpretation battle? Even a die
can be mechanically divided with a dicing saw. So if that won't count as
being separable, how about potting up the whole thing?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
"Luhan Monat" <x@y.z> wrote in message news:jP3ne.1624$Pp.651@fed1read01...
GMM50 wrote:
Note that this requirement will probably trickle down to the engineer.
Management will ask the eng. to state that the product complies.
Guess who gets the blame.

gm


Speaking of who gets blamed, I once insisted on working a contract type
job as an employee. It was medical equipment. Anybody sues us, they
can't sue an employee,
Click to expand...
You are wrong here. If you are the person in the company who is
the professional expert on the subject and your advice is wrong, it
is you who can be personally sued. If your advice is correct and
the management over-rule it, then the management can be sued.

Of course what actually happens depends upon the type of loss.
If the loss is a simple monetary one, then the company can be held
to be vicariously liable and are likely to be sued as well, because
they are the ones with the (insurance) money. But if the loss is of a
life, then it is the individual engineer who is the one in the dock on the
manslaughter charge.

If you want, I am sure that I can find you some examples.

tim
 
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