Deepwater Oil Spill - Oh Shit...

[DrParnassus]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:29:25 -0700 (PDT), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com>
wrote:

I have no idea what his name or address is.

No shit. Could you be a bigger Usenet retard?

Lay down some more proof of your stalking, old man. Go buy a paddle
for that shit pit that you are kayaking in. It will only serve to work
against you.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:09:08 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:23:04 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:37:32 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

Archie: Do you THINK you act like a mature adult, or a spaz?


Is his name really Archie?

Does he have a last name?

John

No, dumbfuck. Just like you, there are other retards that cannot seem
to address someone right.

You goddamned retards fell the hoard mentality stupidity that makes you
make up names for folks. It is a common Usenet posting convolution.

The dumbfuck used "Archie" to be 'short for' my Archimedes' nym.

You really are pretty thick, John.

Oh, the Archimedes' Boy-Toy nym. Of course.

John

 

On Jun 21, 11:35 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 03:50:18 -0700 (PDT), MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net
wrote:



On Jun 21, 2:36 am, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:29 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Setting aside the 20 Billion makes no change to the portion of the
total cost that the profits from BP will cover.  It actually saves a
fair chunk of money because a third party will be handling much
of the work on paying out the claims.

It saves money in the same way that giving Michele Obama your credit
card to buy your clothes saves you money.

It save money to not have the situation burn up money on an army
or lawyers.

It mostly just means that the payments will be made without concern to
their effectiveness or merit, by someone who has no interest in
either: Mr. Obama's pay czar.  The pay czar's interest is to pay
quickly, often, and to as many people as possible, deserving or not.

The folks doing it are not "Obama's pay czar".  IIRC they are the same
folks
that did it after 911.  These are folks who know how to do this sort
of thing.

That is a damn bold thing to say considering the foul-ups that system
engendered.



The really good thing about Mr. Obama extorting $20B from BP is that
the government gets control of the $20B, and so can spend it faster,
and buy more votes.

Obama doesn't end up controlling it.  He may get some extra votes
for having put adults in charge but nothing more.

Wrong and wrong.

The biggest immediate gain for the President is that BP's being made
to pay for Mr. Obama's gaffe. Mr. Obama suspended drilling, citing
experts who say they didn't say that, killing lots and lots of Gulf
oil workers' jobs. That's a lot of people, and they're furious.

The shakedown included BP having to pay those workers the President
idled, $100M.

I heard Ken Feinberg (the pay czar) on the news yesterday. He said
people should submit claims whether they were sure they were damaged
or not. He also said, as an example, he'd award BP money to a
restaurant in Boston if they lost business for not having as many
shrimp, depending on their state law.

That's a serious multiplier effect. And yes, people directly hurt
will get less.

I didn't mean to jump on Ken, but it *really* bugs me to hear
lynching, stripping civil rights, and crowing about BP's Hayward
spending Father's Day in a sailboat race with his son described as
having "put adults in charge."

A President strong-arming citizens isn't heroic, it isn't responsible,
not laudable. It doesn't matter that it's expedient, that civil
rights are inconvenient to the State, or that BP's an unsympathetic
victim. This isn't a slippery slope, it *is* tyrannical.

This is what our Founding Fathers tried to protect us from, it's why
we started anew, independent. King George and his ministers meant no
harm, they just thought us children and themselves parents, doing and
knowing what was best for us. Paternalism. You know, like today.

There's a poem the Jews have about how all it seems fine, that each
injustice looks small and isolated...until it's your turn. A
benevolent dictator is the best form of government, right up until you
get one that isn't.

James Arthur

 

[Grumps]

"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote in message
news:4f5eb$4c20a024$18ec6dd7$31240@KNOLOGY.NET...

"Grumps" <grumps@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:hvq2lv$8ba$1@news.eternal-september.org...
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:vpe0261a3u79h4ecqgm8un9s80tevsn7cc@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:19:14 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:04:51 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:54:40 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:46:43 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:53:19 -0700, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 7:30 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
BP has had 760 OSHA violations to Exxon's one. With a safety
record that
bad, perhaps it would be better to shut them down and let the
other oil
companies (the ones that have better operating records) bid for
their
assets.

Even if the liquidation sale doesn't cover the damages they have
caused,
getting them out of the natural resources business would be
worthwhile.

Why is it that so few people raise an eyebrow over a death penalty
sentence for an individual but scream about rights and justice
when a
corporate death penalty is considered?

Corporations are only considered people WRT rights,
not responsibilities.

Nonsense.

Really? Consider Love Canal. Consider Bhopal.

Considered. Next?

Please describe how the corporations were "punished", when and in what
legal proceeding.

Civil fines.
Bankruptcy ~= death.
No the Obamanation (stolen from the owners and given to the "workers")

Provide backup for any claim that the corporations got
so much as a fine that they actually paid.

UC has paid fines/restitution for Bohpal. There is still the
possibility of
sabotage there.

That's right, I remember it was about $2000 for the employees and about
$10000 for the company. That's correct, $2k not $2B.
And Warren Anderson still refuses to go to trial. We should extradite him
to India. Life for life, UC needs to cough up $100T for the Bhopal mess,
and as UC is wholly owned by a US based company, our govt should pay
reparations.


" our govt should pay reparations"
Meaning me and 50% of my hard working neighbors should pay reparations.
Might not matter to you, you probably don't pay federal income taxes, and
are
to the point where you are collecting SS dollars you never paid into the
system.

No idea what you're on about, sorry!

 

[amdx]

"Grumps" <grumps@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:hvqokq$8m2$1@news.eternal-september.org...

"amdx" <amdx@knology.net> wrote in message
news:4f5eb$4c20a024$18ec6dd7$31240@KNOLOGY.NET...

"Grumps" <grumps@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:hvq2lv$8ba$1@news.eternal-september.org...
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:vpe0261a3u79h4ecqgm8un9s80tevsn7cc@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:19:14 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:04:51 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:54:40 -0700,
"JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:46:43 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:53:19 -0700, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 7:30 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
BP has had 760 OSHA violations to Exxon's one. With a safety
record that
bad, perhaps it would be better to shut them down and let the
other oil
companies (the ones that have better operating records) bid for
their
assets.

Even if the liquidation sale doesn't cover the damages they have
caused,
getting them out of the natural resources business would be
worthwhile.

Why is it that so few people raise an eyebrow over a death
penalty
sentence for an individual but scream about rights and justice
when a
corporate death penalty is considered?

Corporations are only considered people WRT rights,
not responsibilities.

Nonsense.

Really? Consider Love Canal. Consider Bhopal.

Considered. Next?

Please describe how the corporations were "punished", when and in what
legal proceeding.

Civil fines.
Bankruptcy ~= death.
No the Obamanation (stolen from the owners and given to the "workers")

Provide backup for any claim that the corporations got
so much as a fine that they actually paid.

UC has paid fines/restitution for Bohpal. There is still the
possibility of
sabotage there.

That's right, I remember it was about $2000 for the employees and about
$10000 for the company. That's correct, $2k not $2B.
And Warren Anderson still refuses to go to trial. We should extradite
him to India. Life for life, UC needs to cough up $100T for the Bhopal
mess, and as UC is wholly owned by a US based company, our govt should
pay reparations.


" our govt should pay reparations"
Meaning me and 50% of my hard working neighbors should pay reparations.
Might not matter to you, you probably don't pay federal income taxes, and
are
to the point where you are collecting SS dollars you never paid into the
system.

No idea what you're on about, sorry!

How come I'm not surprised!

Gov't doesn't have any money. They take it from taxpayers and pay it out.
(as in reparations)
Only 50% of wage earners pay federal income taxes, that's ( me and 50% of my
hard working neighbors )
Then if you're retired and have lived a good few years after retiring, you
have probably collected
more than you ever paid into the system.
Hope that clears it up for you.
Mike
hmmm! (what you're on about), maybe a Brit, in that case never mind
wait a minute, "( our) govt should pay reparations" may be not a Brit.
I'm getting tired ;-{

 

[Jamie]

UltimatePatriot wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:42:05 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:



Does he have a last name?

He's ashamed of it. Wouldn't you be?



I'm related to former US Presidents. You?
I'm related the long dong "John Holmes" a few

branches here and there.

If it wasn't for my father getting adopted, I'd be
famous!

You ?

Jamie.

 

[DrParnassus]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:04:29 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

I'm related the long dong "John Holmes" a few
branches here and there.

I believe you. Now run off and catch a disease like he did.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:18:35 +0100, "Grumps" <grumps@nothere.com> wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:vpe0261a3u79h4ecqgm8un9s80tevsn7cc@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:19:14 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:04:51 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:54:40 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:46:43 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:53:19 -0700, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 7:30 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
BP has had 760 OSHA violations to Exxon's one. With a safety record
that
bad, perhaps it would be better to shut them down and let the other
oil
companies (the ones that have better operating records) bid for
their
assets.

Even if the liquidation sale doesn't cover the damages they have
caused,
getting them out of the natural resources business would be
worthwhile.

Why is it that so few people raise an eyebrow over a death penalty
sentence for an individual but scream about rights and justice when
a
corporate death penalty is considered?

Corporations are only considered people WRT rights,
not responsibilities.

Nonsense.

Really? Consider Love Canal. Consider Bhopal.

Considered. Next?

Please describe how the corporations were "punished", when and in what
legal proceeding.

Civil fines.
Bankruptcy ~= death.
No the Obamanation (stolen from the owners and given to the "workers")

Provide backup for any claim that the corporations got
so much as a fine that they actually paid.

UC has paid fines/restitution for Bohpal. There is still the possibility
of
sabotage there.

That's right, I remember it was about $2000 for the employees and about
$10000 for the company. That's correct, $2k not $2B.
And Warren Anderson still refuses to go to trial. We should extradite him to
India. Life for life, UC needs to cough up $100T for the Bhopal mess, and as
UC is wholly owned by a US based company, our govt should pay reparations.

Another clueless asshole.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jun 21, 11:29 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:03:59 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:28:23 -0500, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:42:09 -0500, "amdx" <a...@knology.net> wrote:

k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
newsr6t16hjru985gkko7stmns6blrg02444p@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:12:22 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:29 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:42:16 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:11 pm, Penis <Pere...@hereforlongtime.org> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:36:17 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:29 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Setting aside the 20 Billion makes no change to the portion of the
total cost that the profits from BP will cover. It actually saves
a
fair chunk of money because a third party will be handling much
of the work on paying out the claims.

It saves money in the same way that giving Michele Obama your credit
card to buy your clothes saves you money.

It is not about money, dumbfuck. It is about PROCESSING efficiency. A
barge full of contaminant is more effective at timely clean-up than a
barge that is filled, but 40% of that fill is water.

We're talking about the $20B fund Obama extracted from BP. Not
Costner's centrifuge.

But speaking of processing efficiency, how long will it take to fill a
barge at 50-100GPM?

Speaking about processing efficiency, how long will it take the
government to
pay the first dime to those who need it? It's been a couple of months
now,
and Obummer still can't come to skipping a round of golf.

That's a good point.  Mr. Obama prevented LA Gov. Bobby Jindal
building his berms for at least a month, a month when the oil was
still offshore.  Those berms could've prevented a lot of damage,
saving wildlife and cleanup money too.  Mr. Obama still hasn't
suspended the Jones Act.  He's the slow one, not BP.

Re: efficiency, it depends what you're optimizing.  I have every
confidence the government can spend any amount of money faster than BP
and get far less for it.  But, they'll buy votes with BP's money, BP
will still be liable for the rest, and blamed for the government's
failings.  To a politician, that's very efficient.  It's awful.

But *will* BP be liable for the rest?  AIUI, their liability is capped at
something ridiculous like $75M.  If BP decides to say "screw you,
Obummer",
how long would it take to get another dime?

 Last numbers I saw they had already paid out $1.35 Billion and
that was a week or two ago.

That's already 20x their legal liability cap.  I'm really surprised that
they're being so generous, given the thrashing they're getting anyway.

Please document this legal liability cap.  I have never heard of it
before.

$75M cap for compensation, after the Exxon Valdez.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=oil+spill+liability+cap

Interestingly, many Republicans are AGAINST raising
this liability cap, and many Democrats are for jacking
it up to varying degrees or eliminating it entirely.

Interesting who controlled Congress when that particular law was passed.

The BP spill makes it clear to lots of
US Citizens that oil companies need
to be fully liable with no limit.

As far as I am concerned, if the Republicans
want to maintain this liability limit, they
are doomed in November as much as
the Democrats.

So you, in fact, support ex post facto laws. What's your opinion of Bills of
Attaineder? Should they be passed ex post facto? ...or just in this
particular case?

WHO doesn't think that BP should pay for
every bit of cleanup and lost income?

I don't. Certainly *not* the way it's being done.

A point in their favor is that the location
of this oil rig was determined by the
US Government. BP wanted to drill in
shallower water, but the US Government
refused.

I'd like to know more about who and why.

That's easy. Who gave them the permit?

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:27:15 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Jun 21, 6:13 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:20:28 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jun 20, 5:53 pm, krw wrote:

But *will* BP be liable for the rest? AIUI, their liability is capped at
something ridiculous like $75M. If BP decides to say "screw you, Obummer",
how long would it take to get another dime?

Under 33 U.S.C. 2702, BP's liable for removal costs + $75M, unless
the result of gross negligence or willful misconduct.  So yes,
they're being generous.  OTOH, our confiscatorial Congress was huffing
about passing an ex post facto law to eliminate that limit.

How long would that be in the courts?

It's been reported in the $20B "shakedown" meeting that Biden told BP
CEO Hayward "You have no choice. If you don't, we'll force you."

If so, no guts.

With that kind of intimidation, BP'd probably just fold.

Joe Chisolm has a point--BP's a big Democratic supporter. They spent
millions for cap-n-trade, gave the President's chief of staff 5 years
in a rent-free apartment, a major campaign contributor, etc. For
whatever reason they thought they'd do better under Obama than McCain.

I think you're closer to the truth here.

So, it could all be theater--they get their symbolic whipping, then a
bunch of special treatment to make it all back over time.

Yep.

What surprises me is the lawyerly assumption that BP is 100% liable
even though they weren't drilling the hole.  There were 126 people on
board the Deepwater Horizon when it blew, only 6 of whom worked for
BP.  ISTM the driller and cementing contractors bear the brunt.  If
they protested the procedure was unsafe, all the more so--that'd mean
they did something dangerous, knowingly.  That's reckless disregard.

Deep pockets.

Yep. That's still wrong.

That's law.

If you want to argue BP approved the work, well, so did Obama's
Mineral Management Services under his MMS secretary.  Who at this
government's MMS approved this well, who inspected it?  What managers
supervised it?  Were procedures followed?  Why weren't they being
grilled at Congress' hearings?

Why did they just get a safety award from Obama?

Because Obama's appointees are full of sunshine and song, but can't
tie their own shoes.

Obviously.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:30:16 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:13:51 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:


If you want to argue BP approved the work, well, so did Obama's
Mineral Management Services under his MMS secretary. Who at this
government's MMS approved this well, who inspected it? What managers
supervised it? Were procedures followed? Why weren't they being
grilled at Congress' hearings?

Why did they just get a safety award from Obama?

And with a safety record that clearly shows that they did not deserve it.
It is almost like karmic retribution on both their houses.

Evidently BP is considered the "cowboy" of the oil industry. FWIG, Exxon oil
workers think they're simply dangerous to be around.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:44:59 -0700, UltimatePatriot
<UltimatePatriot@thebestcountry.org> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:42:05 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:



Does he have a last name?

He's ashamed of it. Wouldn't you be?


I'm related to former US Presidents. You?

Yes, we know. You're Nixon's long lost spooge.

 

[Greegor]

JL > Does he have a last name?

krw > He's ashamed of it.  Wouldn't you be?

Archie >  I'm related to former US Presidents.  You?

krw > Yes, we know.  You're Nixon's long lost spooge.

That's actually funny!

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Greegor
<greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

JL > Does he have a last name?

krw > He's ashamed of it. Wouldn't you be?

Archie > I'm related to former US Presidents. You?

krw > Yes, we know. You're Nixon's long lost spooge.

That's actually funny!

Some type of cold war "broken arrow" (or broken something) incident?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:42:32 -0700 (PDT), Greegor <greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jun 22, 7:33 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Greegor <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 21, 11:29 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:03:59 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:28:23 -0500, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:42:09 -0500, "amdx" <a...@knology.net> wrote:

k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
newsr6t16hjru985gkko7stmns6blrg02444p@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:12:22 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:29 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:42:16 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:11 pm, Penis <Pere...@hereforlongtime.org> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:36:17 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:29 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Setting aside the 20 Billion makes no change to the portion of the
total cost that the profits from BP will cover. It actually saves
a
fair chunk of money because a third party will be handling much
of the work on paying out the claims.

It saves money in the same way that giving Michele Obama your credit
card to buy your clothes saves you money.

It is not about money, dumbfuck. It is about PROCESSING efficiency. A
barge full of contaminant is more effective at timely clean-up than a
barge that is filled, but 40% of that fill is water.

We're talking about the $20B fund Obama extracted from BP. Not
Costner's centrifuge.

But speaking of processing efficiency, how long will it take to fill a
barge at 50-100GPM?

Speaking about processing efficiency, how long will it take the
government to
pay the first dime to those who need it? It's been a couple of months
now,
and Obummer still can't come to skipping a round of golf.

That's a good point. Mr. Obama prevented LA Gov. Bobby Jindal
building his berms for at least a month, a month when the oil was
still offshore. Those berms could've prevented a lot of damage,
saving wildlife and cleanup money too. Mr. Obama still hasn't
suspended the Jones Act. He's the slow one, not BP.

Re: efficiency, it depends what you're optimizing. I have every
confidence the government can spend any amount of money faster than BP
and get far less for it. But, they'll buy votes with BP's money, BP
will still be liable for the rest, and blamed for the government's
failings. To a politician, that's very efficient. It's awful.

But *will* BP be liable for the rest? AIUI, their liability is capped at
something ridiculous like $75M. If BP decides to say "screw you,
Obummer",
how long would it take to get another dime?

Last numbers I saw they had already paid out $1.35 Billion and
that was a week or two ago.

That's already 20x their legal liability cap. I'm really surprised that
they're being so generous, given the thrashing they're getting anyway.

Please document this legal liability cap. I have never heard of it
before.

$75M cap for compensation, after the Exxon Valdez.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=oil+spill+liability+cap

Interestingly, many Republicans are AGAINST raising
this liability cap, and many Democrats are for jacking
it up to varying degrees or eliminating it entirely.

Interesting who controlled Congress when that particular law was passed.

The BP spill makes it clear to lots of
US Citizens that oil companies need
to be fully liable with no limit.

As far as I am concerned, if the Republicans
want to maintain this liability limit, they
are doomed in November as much as
the Democrats.

krw > So you, in fact, support ex post facto laws.

No.
I know of a case where Family Court Judges
throughout California were getting paid from
both the state and their local county.
They all routinely got paychecks from
TWO sources.

Irrelevant.

An attorney fighting his own battles with
their corruption pointed this out and proved
that they were all in fact getting paid in an illegal
way and that it created more conflict of
interest where the Judge was motivated
by this situation NOT to decide against the
county (which pays them!) and created a
tendency to give the prosecutor (county
which pays them) the benefit of every doubt.

Irrelevant.

California had to pass a law to make this
outright illegal payment scheme LEGAL
retroactively.

So you do approve of ex post facto laws.

Inequality in the enforcement and prosecution
of laws is already a huge problem in our
Family Court systems nationwide.

Irrelevant.

CPS caseworkers ROUTINELY commit
perjury to make cases that actually
had no basis in fact. They basically never
get prosecuted for perjury no matter how
aggregious or blatant it is.

Irrelevant.

krw > What's your opinion of Bills of Attaineder?

You didn't answer the question.

krw > Should they be passed ex post facto?

Not this one.

krw > ...or just in this particular case?

We're just lucky that BP voluntary pays
for PR reasons, so far.

Indeed. Obummer wants to kill that goose.

WHO doesn't think that BP should pay for
every bit of cleanup and lost income?

I don't.  Certainly *not* the way it's being done.

A point in their favor is that the location
of this oil rig was determined by the
US Government.  BP wanted to drill in
shallower water, but the US Government
refused.

I'd like to know more about who and why.

That's easy.  Who gave them the permit?

Obama halted all deep water drilling, while
his good buddy Soros got a boost through
a billion dollar grant for PetroBras (half owned
by Soros) to prospect for oil near Brazil,
but REALLY REALLY deep!

Surprised?

The absurdity of stopping US deep water drilling
but giving a GRANT to a BRAZILIAN company
to drill even DEEPER WATER drilling is sickening.

Obummer.

But it's good for Soros who owns a lot of PetroBras.

The fix is in.

What gave you the first clue?

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:02:48 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:59:41 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Greegor
greegor47@gmail.com> wrote:

JL > Does he have a last name?

krw > He's ashamed of it. Wouldn't you be?

Archie > I'm related to former US Presidents. You?

krw > Yes, we know. You're Nixon's long lost spooge.

That's actually funny!

Some type of cold war "broken arrow" (or broken something) incident?

Exactly. ;-)

s/war/shower/

 

[Greegor]

On Jun 22, 7:33 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Greegor <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 21, 11:29 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:03:59 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:28:23 -0500, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:42:09 -0500, "amdx" <a...@knology.net> wrote:

k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
newsr6t16hjru985gkko7stmns6blrg02444p@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:12:22 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Jun 20, 5:29 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:42:16 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jun 20, 3:11 pm, Penis <Pere...@hereforlongtime.org> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:36:17 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Jun 20, 12:29 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Setting aside the 20 Billion makes no change to the portion of the
total cost that the profits from BP will cover. It actually saves
a
fair chunk of money because a third party will be handling much
of the work on paying out the claims.

It saves money in the same way that giving Michele Obama your credit
card to buy your clothes saves you money.

It is not about money, dumbfuck. It is about PROCESSING efficiency. A
barge full of contaminant is more effective at timely clean-up than a
barge that is filled, but 40% of that fill is water.

We're talking about the $20B fund Obama extracted from BP. Not
Costner's centrifuge.

But speaking of processing efficiency, how long will it take to fill a
barge at 50-100GPM?

Speaking about processing efficiency, how long will it take the
government to
pay the first dime to those who need it? It's been a couple of months
now,
and Obummer still can't come to skipping a round of golf.

That's a good point. Mr. Obama prevented LA Gov. Bobby Jindal
building his berms for at least a month, a month when the oil was
still offshore. Those berms could've prevented a lot of damage,
saving wildlife and cleanup money too. Mr. Obama still hasn't
suspended the Jones Act. He's the slow one, not BP.

Re: efficiency, it depends what you're optimizing. I have every
confidence the government can spend any amount of money faster than BP
and get far less for it. But, they'll buy votes with BP's money, BP
will still be liable for the rest, and blamed for the government's
failings. To a politician, that's very efficient. It's awful.

But *will* BP be liable for the rest? AIUI, their liability is capped at
something ridiculous like $75M. If BP decides to say "screw you,
Obummer",
how long would it take to get another dime?

Last numbers I saw they had already paid out $1.35 Billion and
that was a week or two ago.

That's already 20x their legal liability cap. I'm really surprised that
they're being so generous, given the thrashing they're getting anyway.

Please document this legal liability cap. I have never heard of it
before.

$75M cap for compensation, after the Exxon Valdez.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=oil+spill+liability+cap

Interestingly, many Republicans are AGAINST raising
this liability cap, and many Democrats are for jacking
it up to varying degrees or eliminating it entirely.

Interesting who controlled Congress when that particular law was passed.

The BP spill makes it clear to lots of
US Citizens that oil companies need
to be fully liable with no limit.

As far as I am concerned, if the Republicans
want to maintain this liability limit, they
are doomed in November as much as
the Democrats.

krw > So you, in fact, support ex post facto laws.

No.
I know of a case where Family Court Judges
throughout California were getting paid from
both the state and their local county.
They all routinely got paychecks from
TWO sources.

An attorney fighting his own battles with
their corruption pointed this out and proved
that they were all in fact getting paid in an illegal
way and that it created more conflict of
interest where the Judge was motivated
by this situation NOT to decide against the
county (which pays them!) and created a
tendency to give the prosecutor (county
which pays them) the benefit of every doubt.

California had to pass a law to make this
outright illegal payment scheme LEGAL
retroactively.

Inequality in the enforcement and prosecution
of laws is already a huge problem in our
Family Court systems nationwide.

CPS caseworkers ROUTINELY commit
perjury to make cases that actually
had no basis in fact. They basically never
get prosecuted for perjury no matter how
aggregious or blatant it is.

krw > What's your opinion of Bills of Attaineder?
krw > Should they be passed ex post facto?
krw > ...or just in this particular case?

We're just lucky that BP voluntary pays
for PR reasons, so far.

WHO doesn't think that BP should pay for
every bit of cleanup and lost income?

I don't.  Certainly *not* the way it's being done.

A point in their favor is that the location
of this oil rig was determined by the
US Government.  BP wanted to drill in
shallower water, but the US Government
refused.

I'd like to know more about who and why.

That's easy.  Who gave them the permit?

Obama halted all deep water drilling, while
his good buddy Soros got a boost through
a billion dollar grant for PetroBras (half owned
by Soros) to prospect for oil near Brazil,
but REALLY REALLY deep!

The absurdity of stopping US deep water drilling
but giving a GRANT to a BRAZILIAN company
to drill even DEEPER WATER drilling is sickening.

But it's good for Soros who owns a lot of PetroBras.

The fix is in.

 

[JosephKK]

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:27:59 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:19:14 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:04:51 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:54:40 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:46:43 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:53:19 -0700, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote:

On 6/19/2010 7:30 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
BP has had 760 OSHA violations to Exxon's one. With a safety record that
bad, perhaps it would be better to shut them down and let the other oil
companies (the ones that have better operating records) bid for their
assets.

Even if the liquidation sale doesn't cover the damages they have caused,
getting them out of the natural resources business would be worthwhile.

Why is it that so few people raise an eyebrow over a death penalty
sentence for an individual but scream about rights and justice when a
corporate death penalty is considered?

Corporations are only considered people WRT rights,
not responsibilities.

Nonsense.

Really? Consider Love Canal. Consider Bhopal.

Considered. Next?

Please describe how the corporations were "punished", when and in what
legal proceeding.

Civil fines.
Bankruptcy ~= death.
No the Obamanation (stolen from the owners and given to the "workers")

Provide backup for any claim that the corporations got
so much as a fine that they actually paid.

UC has paid fines/restitution for Bohpal. There is still the possibility of
sabotage there.

I specifically required backup for any report of them paying anything to
anybody.

 

[JosephKK]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:18:35 +0100, "Grumps" <grumps@nothere.com> wrote:

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:vpe0261a3u79h4ecqgm8un9s80tevsn7cc@4ax.com...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:19:14 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:04:51 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:54:40 -0700, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:46:43 -0500, "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:53:19 -0700, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net
wrote:

On 6/19/2010 7:30 PM, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
BP has had 760 OSHA violations to Exxon's one. With a safety record
that
bad, perhaps it would be better to shut them down and let the other
oil
companies (the ones that have better operating records) bid for
their
assets.

Even if the liquidation sale doesn't cover the damages they have
caused,
getting them out of the natural resources business would be
worthwhile.

Why is it that so few people raise an eyebrow over a death penalty
sentence for an individual but scream about rights and justice when
a
corporate death penalty is considered?

Corporations are only considered people WRT rights,
not responsibilities.

Nonsense.

Really? Consider Love Canal. Consider Bhopal.

Considered. Next?

Please describe how the corporations were "punished", when and in what
legal proceeding.

Civil fines.
Bankruptcy ~= death.
No the Obamanation (stolen from the owners and given to the "workers")

Provide backup for any claim that the corporations got
so much as a fine that they actually paid.

UC has paid fines/restitution for Bohpal. There is still the possibility
of
sabotage there.

That's right, I remember it was about $2000 for the employees and about
$10000 for the company. That's correct, $2k not $2B.
And Warren Anderson still refuses to go to trial. We should extradite him to
India. Life for life, UC needs to cough up $100T for the Bhopal mess, and as
UC is wholly owned by a US based company, our govt should pay reparations.

What in the hell is this the taxpayers should pay reparations? That

should come out of Union Carbides hide and the executives thereof at the
time, not anyone else.

 

[Greegor]

If you want to argue BP approved the work, well, so did Obama's
Mineral Management Services under his MMS secretary. Who at this
government's MMS approved this well, who inspected it? What managers
supervised it? Were procedures followed? Why weren't they being
grilled at Congress' hearings?

Why did they just get a safety award from Obama?

Because Obama's appointees are full of sunshine and song, but can't
tie their own shoes.

Obviously.

MMS just got RENAMED!

By RENAMING the thing they hope to put the
ignominy and PR disaster in the past.

The ""Child Protection"" agencies in various
states have changed their names like that
after they have had huge PR disasters.

Usually they change the NAME in order
to further resist being held accountable.

In one instance the agency got ORDERED
to make a certain change, but they ran
PR campaigns pretending they made the
changes out of the goodness of their hearts.