P
Phil Allison
Guest
"ian field"<
....... Phil
** Bollocks.
....... Phil
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P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
** Not as stupid as you are - pal.
** Sometimes there is some tiny print saying " not suitable for dimmers" -
or sometimes a weird symbol is used.
Mostly there is no advice about timer switches, movement detector switches
or the like - which can be just as bad.
However - there never any WARNING of there being a FIRE hazard !!!
Plus, once the CFL lamp is separated from the packaging, most have no usage
advice at all.
There is a legal issue here, not simply a technical one.
...... Phil
Mik DaDik wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
** See news story:
http://www.times-news.com/local/local_story_121093606.html
This USA home owner did not do anything silly or wrong here.
Hi Phil, ALL,
Yes we need to be aware about this...
My missus put one in my daughters room (fitted with a dimmer) after the
bulb stopped working.. Of course it didnt work so she told me.. I said
`You cant plug the CFL bulbs into a socket connected to a dimmer switch'.
As I walked into my daughter's room to replace the CFL there was a very
loud exploding noise, which scared the crap out of me, as my wife had
left the switch turned on.. a fair thing to do, one assumes its not
working why worry..
The CFL did not catch fire or even show signs of damage (strange
considering the noise it made when it blew).
That's because it was designed to modern safety standards.
Now to me it was well known not to use a CFL in a dimmer socket but I
was not prepared for the near catastrophic result of doing so I always
thought they just wont work.
So beware...we may have lost a house or worse our daughter because of
this simple oversight
Just how stupid are you ?
** Not as stupid as you are - pal.
It's written on the box ...
** Sometimes there is some tiny print saying " not suitable for dimmers" -
or sometimes a weird symbol is used.
Mostly there is no advice about timer switches, movement detector switches
or the like - which can be just as bad.
However - there never any WARNING of there being a FIRE hazard !!!
Plus, once the CFL lamp is separated from the packaging, most have no usage
advice at all.
There is a legal issue here, not simply a technical one.
...... Phil
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
Neve we used LA City approval which most other disrtricts were prefectly happy
with, as it was one of the toughest.
Pure UL approval would have been better but those guys are idiots.
Graham
I do not know any US state that does not require its own electrical approval. At"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
** See news story:
http://www.times-news.com/local/local_story_121093606.html
This USA home owner did not do anything silly or wrong here.
There is simply NO SAFETY warning, anywhere AT ALL to suggest a CFL
might burn your home to the ground - maybe several years after you
install it.
The lack of compulsory fire safety standards for CFL is an outrage - as
is
their inherent incompatibility with so many fittings and housings.
It would be covered in the USA by UL standards.
** Shame how they are NOT COMPULSORY even in the USA !!!!
If cheapskate importers choose to sell unapproved CFLs then THEY should
pay the bill. And be prosecuted and if necessary placed in insolvency and
completely shut down.
** As usual - Stevenson has not the faintest idea what he is crapping on
about.
No compulsory labelling, warnings or fire safety standards for CFLs exist.
They are sold like any other electronic product - with EMC approval, basic
electrical safety and little else.
Neve we used LA City approval which most other disrtricts were prefectly happy
with, as it was one of the toughest.
Pure UL approval would have been better but those guys are idiots.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
What you are saying is that nitwits should be able to use them without thinking
twice in any fitting. That would be ideal.. It may take a few years more though.
In the meantime can't they read the damn instructions ?
Graham
In truth I don't really disagree with you."Eeysore"
Mik DaDik wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
** See news story:
http://www.times-news.com/local/local_story_121093606.html
This USA home owner did not do anything silly or wrong here.
Hi Phil, ALL,
Yes we need to be aware about this...
My missus put one in my daughters room (fitted with a dimmer) after the
bulb stopped working.. Of course it didnt work so she told me.. I said
`You cant plug the CFL bulbs into a socket connected to a dimmer switch'.
As I walked into my daughter's room to replace the CFL there was a very
loud exploding noise, which scared the crap out of me, as my wife had
left the switch turned on.. a fair thing to do, one assumes its not
working why worry..
The CFL did not catch fire or even show signs of damage (strange
considering the noise it made when it blew).
That's because it was designed to modern safety standards.
Now to me it was well known not to use a CFL in a dimmer socket but I
was not prepared for the near catastrophic result of doing so I always
thought they just wont work.
So beware...we may have lost a house or worse our daughter because of
this simple oversight
Just how stupid are you ?
** Not as stupid as you are - pal.
It's written on the box ...
** Sometimes there is some tiny print saying " not suitable for dimmers" -
or sometimes a weird symbol is used.
Mostly there is no advice about timer switches, movement detector switches
or the like - which can be just as bad.
However - there never any WARNING of there being a FIRE hazard !!!
Plus, once the CFL lamp is separated from the packaging, most have no usage
advice at all.
There is a legal issue here, not simply a technical one.
What you are saying is that nitwits should be able to use them without thinking
twice in any fitting. That would be ideal.. It may take a few years more though.
In the meantime can't they read the damn instructions ?
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Franc Zabkar wrote:
with not reading.
A public awareness campaign is IMHO the only way to deal with this.
Graham
Tell me about it ! ;~)Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:
Franc Zabkar wrote:
My brother installed a CFL in a 3-stage dimmed touch lamp and
[fortunately ?] short circuited the triac in the dimmer.
Did he have truly no idea CFLs aren't (usually) dimmable ?
You can be intelligent *and* ignorant at the same time.
You mean people don't like reading anything they think they can get awayA lot of
people don't understand the problem. It requires a public education
campaign by the same authorities that mandated CFLs, or at least a
*prominent* warning on the box, or on the lamp itself. And even if
there was a warning on the box, how many people would expect to have
to read instructions on how to use a planet-saving light bulb?
with not reading.
They could. At more expense.In any case I believe CFLs should be able to tolerate misuse, even if
they fail gracefully as a consequence.
No problem here but then we don't exactly get brown outs often.A final thought. I wonder how CFLs cope with brown outs?
I pretty much agreee. But who ever reads the instructions anyway ?That's something that is out of our control.
A public awareness campaign is IMHO the only way to deal with this.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
British Standards). And the fused plug !
Graham
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER. But this is the UK ! The home of BS. ("Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote
"Franc Zabkar"
"Lord Garth"
I run a CFL on my X10 switches all the time....the proviso is that I
always have at least one standard incandescent bulb in parallel with
the CFL. I'm on my second CFL now...I'll see if my date stamp is
still visible.
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
** It's obvious, the CFLs all catch on fire and burn the house down.
Never heard of CE, UL, CUL/CSA, C Tick or CCC ?
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
British Standards). And the fused plug !
Graham
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
** Stop thinking like a pedantic engineer and start believing in the dictum
of Murphy - ie, if it can go wrong it will.
The "instructions" on CFL packaging, such as they exist, are UTTERLY
AMBIGUOUS and therefore TOTALLY USELESS in preventing accidents.
CFLs are a * CONSUMER * item sold as a general purpose replacement for the
humble light bulb - the use of which is familiar to everyone.
It a particular type of CFL cannot be SAFELY installed by a child ( or
vision impaired or non-literate person) in any light socket in the house -
forget performance or life span - then it SHOULD NOT BE ON SALE !!!
Making their use compulsory in every home and lamp socket without compulsory
safety regulations in place is COMPLETE INSANITY.
In Australia, we can thank the Global Warming freakoids, the Green Nazis
and the dopey Federal government for this.
...... Phil
Phil Allison wrote:
It's written on the box ...
** Sometimes there is some tiny print saying " not suitable for
immers" -
or sometimes a weird symbol is used.
Mostly there is no advice about timer switches, movement detector
switches
or the like - which can be just as bad.
However - there never any WARNING of there being a FIRE hazard !!!
Plus, once the CFL lamp is separated from the packaging, most have no
usage
advice at all.
There is a legal issue here, not simply a technical one.
In truth I don't really disagree with you.
What you are saying is that nitwits should be able to use them without
thinking
twice in any fitting. That would be ideal.. It may take a few years more
though.
In the meantime can't they read the damn instructions ?
** Stop thinking like a pedantic engineer and start believing in the dictum
of Murphy - ie, if it can go wrong it will.
The "instructions" on CFL packaging, such as they exist, are UTTERLY
AMBIGUOUS and therefore TOTALLY USELESS in preventing accidents.
CFLs are a * CONSUMER * item sold as a general purpose replacement for the
humble light bulb - the use of which is familiar to everyone.
It a particular type of CFL cannot be SAFELY installed by a child ( or
vision impaired or non-literate person) in any light socket in the house -
forget performance or life span - then it SHOULD NOT BE ON SALE !!!
Making their use compulsory in every home and lamp socket without compulsory
safety regulations in place is COMPLETE INSANITY.
In Australia, we can thank the Global Warming freakoids, the Green Nazis
and the dopey Federal government for this.
...... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
** Then you are an ill informed damn fool.
...... Phil
Phil Allison wrote:
"Franc Zabkar"
"Lord Garth"
I run a CFL on my X10 switches all the time....the proviso is that I
always have at least one standard incandescent bulb in parallel with
the CFL. I'm on my second CFL now...I'll see if my date stamp is
still visible.
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
** It's obvious, the CFLs all catch on fire and burn the house down.
Never heard of CE, UL, CUL/CSA, C Tick or CCC ?
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER.
** Then you are an ill informed damn fool.
...... Phil
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
Electrical fires are all but unknown here. By design.
Graham
Doesn't happen in the UK. Fused plugs and all that stuff must help."Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
"Franc Zabkar"
"Lord Garth"
I run a CFL on my X10 switches all the time....the proviso is that I
always have at least one standard incandescent bulb in parallel with
the CFL. I'm on my second CFL now...I'll see if my date stamp is
still visible.
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
** It's obvious, the CFLs all catch on fire and burn the house down.
Never heard of CE, UL, CUL/CSA, C Tick or CCC ?
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER.
** Then you are an ill informed damn fool.
Electrical fires are all but unknown here. By design.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
Graham
Predictable Allison response."ian field"
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
You can significantly increase the bulb life expectancy by fitting a surge
inrush limiting NTC thermistor salvaged from a scrap SMPSU,
** Bollocks.
Graham
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER. But this is the UK ! The home of BS. (
British Standards). And the fused plug !
** Well you have now.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2008/07/17/faulty-tv-set-led-to-fatal-coventry-fire-92746-21356939/
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/insurance/household-insurance/article.html?in_article_id=404453&in_page_id=34
http://exactproductsinc.com/WordPress/?p=942
It is one of the common causes of house fires, since the plastic cases of
most TVs and PC monitors are highly flammable PLUS give off toxic fumes
when burnt.
Hence the dead toddler in the first story.
...... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
** ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS !!
....... Phil
Phil Allison wrote:
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER.
** Then you are an ill informed damn fool.
Doesn't happen in the UK.
** ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS !!
....... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
** Yep - a perfectly correct one.
Unlike your mindless, asinine piles of pommy drivel.
...... Phil
Phil Allison wrote:
"ian field"
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
You can significantly increase the bulb life expectancy by fitting a
surge
inrush limiting NTC thermistor salvaged from a scrap SMPSU,
** Bollocks.
Predictable Allison response.
** Yep - a perfectly correct one.
Unlike your mindless, asinine piles of pommy drivel.
...... Phil
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
to expect equivalent performance. Up til recently the CFL was a product for
'nerds' if you like. Now it needs to be made universal.
Graham
I'm well aware of Murphy."Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
It's written on the box ...
** Sometimes there is some tiny print saying " not suitable for
immers" -
or sometimes a weird symbol is used.
Mostly there is no advice about timer switches, movement detector
switches or the like - which can be just as bad.
However - there never any WARNING of there being a FIRE hazard !!!
Plus, once the CFL lamp is separated from the packaging, most have no
usage advice at all.
There is a legal issue here, not simply a technical one.
In truth I don't really disagree with you.
What you are saying is that nitwits should be able to use them without
thinking twice in any fitting. That would be ideal.. It may take a few years
more
though. In the meantime can't they read the damn instructions ?
** Stop thinking like a pedantic engineer and start believing in the dictum
of Murphy - ie, if it can go wrong it will.
Not in my experience in the UK. Maybe we have better packaging ?The "instructions" on CFL packaging, such as they exist, are UTTERLY
AMBIGUOUS and therefore TOTALLY USELESS in preventing accidents.
Yes, I see exactly where you're coming from. The consumer has a reasonable rightCFLs are a * CONSUMER * item sold as a general purpose replacement for the
humble light bulb - the use of which is familiar to everyone.
to expect equivalent performance. Up til recently the CFL was a product for
'nerds' if you like. Now it needs to be made universal.
I agree with you more than you might imagine.It a particular type of CFL cannot be SAFELY installed by a child ( or
vision impaired or non-literate person) in any light socket in the house -
forget performance or life span - then it SHOULD NOT BE ON SALE !!!
Making their use compulsory in every home and lamp socket without compulsory
safety regulations in place is COMPLETE INSANITY.
Little doubt about that.In Australia, we can thank the Global Warming freakoids, the Green Nazis
and the dopey Federal government for this.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
I'm a great believer in energy efficiency but NOT at the risk of electrical
safety.
Graham
Looks like I'll have to try one in such a situation."Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
"ian field"
All the CFLs I've had apart were fitted with a thermal fuse or a
fusible resistor on the AC side of the bridge rectifier, over the years
I've
had a few fail - which they usually do quietly and without incident.
** When used with a dimmer set to max or some triac switches - the
fusible resistor that runs red hot and can start a fire. See pic of
glowing thermal fuse:
They are not DESIGNED to be used with dimmers.
Why are you excusing the fuckwits who don't bother to read the
instructions ?
** Try reading the thread - it is about fire hazard.
Not one word exists from makers about this risk in their "instructions".
I'm a great believer in energy efficiency but NOT at the risk of electrical
safety.
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
I have personally NEVER heard of such a fire. Were these sets *properly* CE certified ?
Graham
Sorry, did you dig up these stories from the 70s when high dissipation tubes were in use ?"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER. But this is the UK ! The home of BS. (
British Standards). And the fused plug !
** Well you have now.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2008/07/17/faulty-tv-set-led-to-fatal-coventry-fire-92746-21356939/
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/insurance/household-insurance/article.html?in_article_id=404453&in_page_id=34
http://exactproductsinc.com/WordPress/?p=942
It is one of the common causes of house fires, since the plastic cases of
most TVs and PC monitors are highly flammable PLUS give off toxic fumes
when burnt.
Hence the dead toddler in the first story.
I have personally NEVER heard of such a fire. Were these sets *properly* CE certified ?
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
Graham
CITE !"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER.
** Then you are an ill informed damn fool.
Doesn't happen in the UK.
** ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS !!
Graham
E
Eeyore
Guest
Phil Allison wrote:
Graham
NTC thermistors DO help bulb life, as does a quiescent current too btw."Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:
"ian field"
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
You can significantly increase the bulb life expectancy by fitting a
surge> inrush limiting NTC thermistor salvaged from a scrap SMPSU,
** Bollocks.
Predictable Allison response.
** Yep - a perfectly correct one.
Unlike your mindless, asinine piles of pommy drivel.
Graham
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote
** Read the damn dates on the stories
- you congenital, monumental bloody ASS !!
July, 2008 October, 2005 August, 2008 !!!!
It's a FLAMMABLE PLASTIC FIRE !!
Only takes ONE HOT RESISTOR to initiate !!!
For god's sake man - get real.
....... Phil
Phil Allison wrote
** Never heard of CRT monitors or TV sets burning home down ??
Actually I haven't. As in NEVER. But this is the UK ! The home of BS. (
British Standards). And the fused plug !
** Well you have now.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2008/07/17/faulty-tv-set-led-to-fatal-coventry-fire-92746-21356939/
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/insurance/household-insurance/article.html?in_article_id=404453&in_page_id=34
http://exactproductsinc.com/WordPress/?p=942
It is one of the common causes of house fires, since the plastic cases of
most TVs and PC monitors are highly flammable PLUS give off toxic fumes
when burnt.
Hence the dead toddler in the first story.
Sorry, did you dig up these stories from the 70s
** Read the damn dates on the stories
- you congenital, monumental bloody ASS !!
July, 2008 October, 2005 August, 2008 !!!!
It's a FLAMMABLE PLASTIC FIRE !!
Only takes ONE HOT RESISTOR to initiate !!!
For god's sake man - get real.
....... Phil
P
Phil Allison
Guest
"Eeysore"
** But not *significantly* !!
As was * required * by the context and the post I replied to.
...... Phil
Phil Allison wrote:
"ian field"
What happens if the incandescent bulb burns out?
You can significantly increase the bulb life expectancy by fitting a
surge> inrush limiting NTC thermistor salvaged from a scrap SMPSU,
** Bollocks.
Predictable Allison response.
** Yep - a perfectly correct one.
Unlike your mindless, asinine piles of pommy drivel.
NTC thermistors DO help bulb life,
** But not *significantly* !!
As was * required * by the context and the post I replied to.
...... Phil