Are engineers socially disadvantaged?

[Kryten]

I often say stereotypes spring from prototypes.

Some people have aspberger's syndrome, which is a biological cause of geeks.

Smart kids who are spellbound by the way things work are in a minority,
don't tend to have much in common with the majority for whom social status
is based on who you can be snotty to, or smoking, or drugs, etc. Smart kids
are usually smart enough to disdain such criteria. As such they attract
contempt or aggression from the majority.

So unless they have decent school mates then yes they can become ostracised
and have less opportunity to learn social skills.

I expect there are some evolutionary reasons for people picking on unusual
people, perhaps to weed out potentially disadvantaged freaks. This might
explain (though not justify) racist aggression. If kids are raised in an
environment where minority skin colour is seen just as normal as minority
eye colour, hostility is reduced to those who are just natural bullies.


What goes around comes around as they say in the USA.

A mate of mine once installed a security system at a prison, and made eye
contact with one of the jerks from his school days. Neither said anything -
they didn't have to! He said it was one of the sweetest moments in his life!


One jerk I knew at school committed suicide. After a life spent making other
people really unhappy, I guess life repaid him in kind.



<larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:1106363368.472671.34670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

For exactly the same reason, people like to read about millionaire
superstars getting fat or having marital problems.

Oh yes, it is resentment. People console their own failures by reading about
successful people's failures. They forget that they might be even fatter or
have a worse marriage.

 

[Rich The Philosophizer]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:14:56 +0000, john jardine wrote:

.... Hell, most people out there

can't even bear 1 minute of silence alone with their own thoughts. let alone
the stress of having to tread a path none have trod before.

Boy, ain't that the truth!

The only time engineer-chic would become de rigeur, is after some biblical
cataclysm and the world needs rebuilding.

We'll see, Real Soon Now. ;-)

[Come to think of it, that H.G. Wells fellow, wrote a novel covering this
ground nicely :-].

There are many messengers, not all of whom are recognized for what they
are.

;^j
Rich

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:16:24 +0000, Kryten wrote:

I often say stereotypes spring from prototypes.

Some people have aspberger's syndrome, which is a biological cause of geeks.

Smart kids who are spellbound by the way things work are in a minority,
don't tend to have much in common with the majority for whom social status
is based on who you can be snotty to, or smoking, or drugs, etc. Smart kids
are usually smart enough to disdain such criteria. As such they attract
contempt or aggression from the majority.

No, actually, "disdain" is an attitude taken on by the envious wannabes
who really really wish they were equal, but since they haven't got what it
takes, they try to make up for it with pseudointellectual bravado.
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:37:28 +0000, John S. Dyson wrote:

In article <1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal life and
being a normal person.

You again show typical provincial leftist arrogance and hatred.

Just as evidence-based as his political opinions.

Remember, it is you who are far out of the mainstream. My own
opinions do result from discussions with others, along with much
ongoing research. It is indeed true that the left tends to
continually lie and also shows excess hatred. You are a perfect
example, old man. Your hateful bitterness is evidenced above.

John

Boys, boys! What does this sniping accomplish? We have different opinions
about things. Big Fucking Deal! I don't like Jim Thompson's politics, or
Guy Macon's religion, but that doesn't stop me from discussing electronics
with them! (when it's something I know from an elbow in a hole in the
ground)

Well, get along, don't get along, it's no skin off my teeth.
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.

 

[Pig Bladder]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:46:14 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:
....

You can always tell when *any* politician lies, irrespective of creed.
Their lips move.

By jove, I think he's got it! All the world needs is
ventriloquist politicians!
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:02:33 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:52:38 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanq@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> schreef in
bericht news:ubc2v0lcn26vmj2ru0r6r51nbbeduecrvi@4ax.com...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:37:28 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article <1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal life and
being a normal person.


Your hateful bitterness is evidenced above.


Bill is just Fred in disguise; a simple numerical analysis will prove
it to be so.

Yes, simple analysis, your expertise, will prove anything.

Did you change anything in your newsreader setup? You were sitting
in my kill file, but the last few days I see you posting your usual
shit again. Don't bother to fill me in, PLONK!


What, you're not interested in my analysis? Some people just have no
scientific curiosity.

As surprising as it may sound, I actually _am_ interested in your

analysis. That might drag the thread up out of the morass of venom and
blame!

Thanks!
Rich

 

[me]

"Charles Schuler" <charleschuler@comcast.net> wrote in
news:yN6dnT5FbOjhEWzcRVn-gg@comcast.com:

An engineer dies and goes to hell. The devil never had an engineer
before so he decided to give him some latitude. A year later, hell had
air conditioning, fresh water, fresh food, flush toilets, etc. --- all
because of the engineer. The devil was happy, but then God called him
and said "I understand that you have an engineer." "The devil replied,
'Yes'." God replied "I want him as he was shipped to the wrong
domain." The devil replied "No, I like him and you can't have him."
God said "I'll sue you for everything you have!" The devil replied
"And where are you going to find a lawyer?"

yawn.

 

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:37:28 +0000 (UTC), toor@iquest.net (John S.
Dyson) wrote:

In article <1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal life
and
being a normal person.


Your hateful bitterness is evidenced above.


Bill is just Fred in disguise; a simple numerical analysis will prove
it to be so.

If only I had enough of Fred's skills to mimic his postings - sadly,
the simple numerical analysis is giving a misleading result.
-------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

John S. Dyson wrote:

In article <1106324182.421401.252320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson wrote:
In article
1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal
life > >> > and being a normal person.

You again show typical provincial leftist arrogance and hatred.

Just as evidence-based as his political opinions.

Remember, it is you who are far out of the mainstream.

I'd have difficulty remembering such a ridiculous proposition,
un-supported as it is by any shred of supporting evidence, in
typical
Dyson style.

Please provide evidence of any of your statements in your own
personally offensive blather...

You first.

My own opinions do result from discussions with others,

Other inmates.

Please give evidence of any jail time -- thank you for further
evidence of Slowman's lack of integrity. Your apparent
intellect is ohhh sooo pathetically 'dishonest leftist.' (Nothing
wrong with being leftist, but alot wrong with your kind of
dishonesty.)

"Inmates" can live in all kinds of protected institutions - anything
from the gated communities of the super-rich to lunatic asylums to
"caring communities" for the mentally deficient. Strange that you
should have homed in on prisons ... I was thinking more of the last
catagory.

along with much on-going research.

Which you never cite

Please provide evidence of your claims above, and you'll find
that you are just blathering.

Since one can't prove a negative, I certainly can't cite an example of
you posting externally validated evidence - but my evidence is that you
can't either. You could disprove the claim with a single citation, if
one existed.

Thank you for helping to evidence your own lack of intellectual
viability, probably due to some kind of leftist senility, old man.
Perhaps you aren't just leftist, but maybe a little senile?

I'm 62, and thus somewhat senile (it just means aged) - but I still
seem to have a better idea of what constitutes evidence than you do.
-------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

I'm interested - I always getting a kick out of finding the flaw in a
misleading numerical analysis.

-----------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[John Larkin]

On 22 Jan 2005 02:57:40 -0600, me <me@here.net> wrote:

"Charles Schuler" <charleschuler@comcast.net> wrote in
news:yN6dnT5FbOjhEWzcRVn-gg@comcast.com:

An engineer dies and goes to hell. The devil never had an engineer
before so he decided to give him some latitude. A year later, hell had
air conditioning, fresh water, fresh food, flush toilets, etc. --- all
because of the engineer. The devil was happy, but then God called him
and said "I understand that you have an engineer." "The devil replied,
'Yes'." God replied "I want him as he was shipped to the wrong
domain." The devil replied "No, I like him and you can't have him."
God said "I'll sue you for everything you have!" The devil replied
"And where are you going to find a lawyer?"




yawn.

My wife liked it.

John

 

[keith]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:26:29 -0800, larwe wrote:

Brian wrote:

The introverted, shy, shambling, disheveled engineer is a cliche
that
probably wasn't even true when it came into vogue, and it certainly

Either that, or you are a dork and in denial

A simple test refutes that: People have to ask me what I do for a
living, they can't guess.

A cashier in our cafeteria said that I must be an engineer. "Why, yes,
how did you know?" "...because you have the same thing for breakfast
(large coffee and a slice of wheat toast) every morning." "Engineers
always have the same thing." Well, since I can't think before having the
coffee it's difficult to get out of the rut (and the selection isn't
great). It was also an easy guess, since the cafeteria serves
three buildings with perhaps a thousand employees, 90% of which are
engineers.

--
Keith

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <ufoId.192004$48.31814@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"Kevin Aylward" <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> writes:

John S. Dyson wrote:
In article <qQ6Id.185808$48.182721@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"Kevin Aylward" <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> writes:
John S. Dyson wrote:
In article <1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal life
and being a normal person.

You again show typical provincial leftist arrogance and hatred.

Just as evidence-based as his political opinions.

Remember, it is you who are far out of the mainstream. My own
opinions do result from discussions with others, along with much
ongoing research. It is indeed true that the left tends to
continually lie and also shows excess hatred.

Complete bullshit. You cant be serious. The religious right show
extensive hatred, i.e. intolerance to other non xtian ideas.

Remember, you seem to show extreme intolerance against religion,

So what. I never claimed to be tolerant of religion. And no, its not
extreme intolerance, it just plain intolerance,

Thank you -- you admit to your intolerance. I find intolerant people

to be small minded and insignificant.

as I don't go shooting
anti-abortionists on a daily basis.

I don't believe in killing abortionists, but the basis of the anti-abortion

radicals belief is that they believe that aborting viable babies is murder.
Even though it is murder, it is currently legal (and shouldn't kill the
abortionists to defend the babies, because it doesn't work and is illegal
and immoral in itself.) Killing an abortionist doesn't directly eliminate
the cause of a late term abortion... More importantly, it is just as wrong
to kill an abortionist as the aborted baby.

Religion is de-facto false.

I expect that attitude from intolerant people... You seem to extend the

fact that someone might be religious that they are somehow 'defective'
beyond that eccentricity? Note that I am not religious, but see that
your intolerance is just as defective (or moreso) than a tolerant religious
persons' attitude.

John

 

[John S. Dyson]

In article <1106386852.296791.211770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson wrote:
In article <1106324182.421401.252320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson wrote:
In article
1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal
life > >> > and being a normal person.

You again show typical provincial leftist arrogance and hatred.

Just as evidence-based as his political opinions.

Remember, it is you who are far out of the mainstream.

I'd have difficulty remembering such a ridiculous proposition,
un-supported as it is by any shred of supporting evidence, in
typical
Dyson style.

Please provide evidence of any of your statements in your own
personally offensive blather...

You first.

Again, I asked the question, and you continue to blather. Old man

slowman seems to be an old, defective socialist. Hopefully, they'll
die off.

John

 

[Richard Henry]

"keith" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
newsan.2005.01.22.18.01.29.139214@att.bizzzz...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:26:29 -0800, larwe wrote:


Brian wrote:

The introverted, shy, shambling, disheveled engineer is a cliche
that
probably wasn't even true when it came into vogue, and it certainly

Either that, or you are a dork and in denial

A simple test refutes that: People have to ask me what I do for a
living, they can't guess.

A cashier in our cafeteria said that I must be an engineer. "Why, yes,
how did you know?" "...because you have the same thing for breakfast
(large coffee and a slice of wheat toast) every morning." "Engineers
always have the same thing." Well, since I can't think before having the
coffee it's difficult to get out of the rut (and the selection isn't
great). It was also an easy guess, since the cafeteria serves
three buildings with perhaps a thousand employees, 90% of which are
engineers.

We have a small cafeteria at work. I didn't realize I was having the same
thing every day until I was delayed digging a bottle of orange juice out of
the cooler and had to go back to the start of the line to get the tray. By
the time I got up to the grill, my one-egg-over-easy and strip of bacon were
already waiting for me.

 

John S. Dyson wrote:

In article <1106302663.058461.292130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@ieee.org writes:

John S. Dyson does have these fantasies about living a normal life
and
being a normal person.

You again show typical provincial leftist arrogance and hatred.

Just as evidence-based as his political opinions.

Remember, it is you who are far out of the mainstream.

I'd have difficulty remembering such a ridiculous proposition,
un-supported as it is by any shred of supporting evidence, in typical
Dyson style.

My own opinions do result from discussions with others,

Other inmates.

along with much on-going research.

Which you never cite - wisely, since your absurd opinions are only
shared by other right-wing nut-cases, and presumably dredged up from
their web-sites.

It is indeed true that the left tends to continually lie and also
shows > excess hatred.

Another unsupported proposition.

You are a perfect example, old man.

Of what? You've yet to demonstrate that I've ever lied, and your
pathetic belief that I hate you is pure self-deceit - I merely devoutly
hope that someone manages to find a cure for your malicious delusions,
and post intellectual health warnings in the meantime.

Your hateful bitterness is evidenced above.

Better get them to up your medication - your paranoia is showing ...
-----
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[Kevin Aylward]

John S. Dyson wrote:

In article <fBxId.193519$48.108455@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"Kevin Aylward" <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> writes:
John S. Dyson wrote:
In article <ufoId.192004$48.31814@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,


Complete bullshit. You cant be serious. The religious right show
extensive hatred, i.e. intolerance to other non xtian ideas.

Remember, you seem to show extreme intolerance against religion,

So what. I never claimed to be tolerant of religion. And no, its
not extreme intolerance, it just plain intolerance,

Thank you -- you admit to your intolerance. I find intolerant
people to be small minded and insignificant.

Oh?

Most/all physicists will reject out of hand, flat earths, sun as the
centre of the universe etc, and this include all the greats like
Einstein, Plank, Fynmann etc...

There is a difference between being a disbeliever and being
intolerant. You admitted to intolerance. Disagreeing is NOT the same
as intolerance. Intolerance is the attitude of little, narrow minded
people. Disagreeing is something that mature people can do, and
still tolerate, accept or even respect each other.

I assume that you are intelligent enough to understand that you tried
to change the subject from intolerance to disagreement. If you do
understand this, then it is obvious that you intended to mislead (and
that is a very typical leftist behavior), or perhaps you made a
mistake (and probably don't have an adequate intellectual basis to
judge anyone.)

Your further statement is elided, especially because it is insulting
to me for little minded and intolerant people to use familiar forms
of speech with me. That is, except for those who don't understand
these things (people with Downs syndrome, who don't understand
formality and are friendly with everyone.) I assume that your intent
was with a modicum of disrespect -- but that is to be expected from
you. (Geesh, someone who is intolerant of those with religion
probably doens't have very much respect for anything or anyone.)

Given your intolerance, there cannot be any basis of mutual respect,
even though that aspect of your intolerance (e.g. religion) isn't
a specific basis of our disagreement. I might not be religious
(definitely not), but am disgusted by little minded people who show
intolerance against those who are religious. This would be similar
to straight people (like me) who are disgusted by gay-haters (but
those who push their sexuality into everyone's faces are disgusting
themselves, whether straight or gay.)

It is so very interesting that some of the most generally intolerant
people are those who profess some kind of leftist 'elitism' or
arrogance. Perhaps it isn't just leftist arrogance, but simple
arrogance from simple and emotionally underdeveloped people.

Well, glad you got that all of your chest. Feel better now?

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

Typical Jim - wasting bandwidth nit-picking about a typo. And there is
nothing specifically leftist in the concept of concencus - the whole
electoral process is just an elaborate mechanism for working out what
the population wide concencus is.

Rightists admittedly spend a great deal of effort and money trying to
subvert this process, but even they seem to be resigned to going
through the motions.

------------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

 

[keith]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:25:58 +0000, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:6g62v0128l4skame5l5v1tnjln5iur0sou@4ax.com...

You ought to see the looks I get when I wear my sweat shirt with
Maxwell's Equations on the back ;-)

Particularly if they see the front also... it says, "And God said, let
there be light"

Do you know of any retailer that carries them?

Here's one, thought they don't shot the "let there be light":

http://www.cafepress.com/math_shirts/282002

Here's another:

http://www.t-shirtshopper.com/cgi-bin/sitesearch.cgi (search on "maxwell")


--
Keith

 

[keith]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:15:02 -0800, bill.sloman wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On 22 Jan 2005 16:15:45 -0800, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

This analysis depends on a rather subjective classification, and
doesn't seem to control for observer bias - since no actual values
of A
or B for either Fred or me are quoted, it wouldn't be accepted in
any
referreed journal.

It also depends on the obviously fallacious proposition that if
groups
of postings score the same on some single arbitrary dimension, all
these postings have been generated by the same person.

Since our collection of irrational right-wingers share a common
inability to support their ridiculous propositions by citing any
kind
of independent authority, I could set up an Unsupported Assertion
index
and "prove" that Clarence was the same person as John S. Dyson.
-----------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen


So, if I add that last post to your total and recalculate your
D-factor

(grabs RPN calculator, hits keys furiously)... pause...

your score is *still* D = 1.0000

But maybe you aren't Fred after all. He did post something about
thermal runaway that didn't contain a single insult.

Perhaps you might care to check out contribution 32 to the "Odd Sensor
Design" thread

You may be able to detect an insult somewhere in that - I can't.

Ok, then that settles it, you are Fred.

--
Keith