wire size question

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ian Stirling
<root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote (in
<4256e2c2$0$42305$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net&gt about 'wire size
question', on Fri, 8 Apr 2005:

In sci.electronics.design John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ian Stirling
root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote (in
4256758a$0$63440$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net&gt about 'wire size
question', on Fri, 8 Apr 2005:

Blowtorch to heat to dull red heat, and then wipe insulation off.

I'd like to see you do that with 30 gauge wire. For an encore, you could
do it with 46 gauge. (;-)

Actually, I do it regularly with .15mm wire (I don't know the guage)
Of course, you have to be able to set the blowtorch so that it's producing
a yellow flame that's not too hot, a lighter works well.

Oh, that's cheating. (;-) When you write 'blowtorch', you should mean
'blowtorch', 1000 C plus.

The almost cool flame of an alcohol burner is good, especially as it has
a large part of its volume that is chemically reducing.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in
<37pd51p6081auatb8pvo7cd31fihbo4kme@4ax.com&gt about 'wire size
question', on Fri, 8 Apr 2005:

IIRC there's something called Formvar that will self-strip upon
application of a tinned iron.

Once upon a time, there was 'flux-enamelled' magnet wire, which was
really easy to solder, but the coating was fragile. Then there was
'solderable', which required an iron temperature substantially higher
than for normal soldering. But that gave off toluene diisocyanate, which
is poisonous if you breathe it for 20 years, so you had to use it under
extraction, and that made it fall out of favour.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:10:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

IIRC there's something called Formvar that will self-strip upon
application of a tinned iron.

---
And, in the process, tin the wire, changing its diameter...

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

<Albert> wrote in message
news:0s8b5190savvispr1ga5he5hih23dgm41k@4ax.com...

Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

I know I can weigh it, provided it's not on a spool or motor winding
already.

My local electrical shop has a wire gauge, but it stops at 18 gauge.

A microscope might work, but ones that have calibrated distance
measuring on the eyepiece are expensive.

Perhaps a milliohm meter might be able to measure the difference in
resistance of a foot of it or so, but that's hardly a standard item
either.

Any suggestions?

I use either a dial calipers or a micrometer. But then the insulation
can make it sizeably larger than the value given in the wire tables.
The wire tables have a column which gives 'ohms per 1000 ft' which is
just another way of saying milliohms per foot. So if you measure ten
feet of 30 AWG it should measure 1.04 ohms. My cheap meter test leads
are something like .4 ohms, so it's really difficult to get any accuracy
at that low a resistance. I have a Leeds Northrup wheatstone bridge,
and it's not very good either at that low a resistance. So I put the
wire or whatever on a power supply and crank up the current to a quarter
amp, and then measure the V drop and calculate the resistance from that.

Thanks,

A

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4255a86c$0$94508$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

In sci.electronics.design Albert <> wrote:
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

Micrometer.
Vernier caliper may also work.
Either under $30US.

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a Helios
dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a caliper
with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

 

[Peter A Forbes]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 04:36:20 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4255a86c$0$94508$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
In sci.electronics.design Albert <> wrote:
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

Micrometer.
Vernier caliper may also work.
Either under $30US.

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a Helios
dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a caliper
with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

I do, got fed up with resetting the mechanical dial type through the rack and
pinion becoming dirty, and electronics/robustness issues with electronic types.

Peter

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
<115ffk78ocf354d@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'wire size question', on
Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a
Helios dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a
caliper with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

In UK, you can get vernier calipers for around GBP1 (and mine check out
as quite sufficiently accurate). LCD calipers are about GBP35.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

<LenAnderson@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:1112985620.147867.306410@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

From: "Henry Kolesnik" on Thurs,Apr 7 2005 10:15 pm

Get a nice piece of smooth round rod and tightly wind a little over a
lineal
inch of wire closely spaced as possible. Count the turns in one inch
and
divide the number of turns into one inch and you'll have a very good
measurement without any cost.

73
Hank WD5JFR

Albert> wrote in message
news:0s8b5190savvispr1ga5he5hih23dgm41k@4ax.com...
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire
diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

I know I can weigh it, provided it's not on a spool or motor
winding
already.

My local electrical shop has a wire gauge, but it stops at 18
gauge.

A microscope might work, but ones that have calibrated distance
measuring on the eyepiece are expensive.

Perhaps a milliohm meter might be able to measure the difference in
resistance of a foot of it or so, but that's hardly a standard item
either.

Any suggestions?

A non-destructive measurement is best. Along about
1946 my middle school (we called it "junior high" back
then) electric shop instructor demonstrated how to use
a mechanical caliper and how NOT to squeeze too hard in
doing so. Soft-drawn copper common to wire is fairly
easy to squash when using a caliper. Using one requires
a VERY light touch on the wire, just enough to be able
to pull it slightly through the caliper jaws. Even so,
pulling on soft-drawn copper wire is going to distort it
slightly so the measurement is going to be on the small
side. Snipping off ten or twenty short lengths, then
measuring the total width and dividing by the number of
lengths will be a bit better in accuracy.

HUH? What do you mean, Jellybean?

[snip]

Just some practical thoughts after doing a bit of
winding in my time...

Uh, yeah...

> LenAnderson@ieee.org

 

[Pooh Bear]

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

Albert> wrote in message
news:0s8b5190savvispr1ga5he5hih23dgm41k@4ax.com...
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

I know I can weigh it, provided it's not on a spool or motor winding
already.

My local electrical shop has a wire gauge, but it stops at 18 gauge.

A microscope might work, but ones that have calibrated distance
measuring on the eyepiece are expensive.

Perhaps a milliohm meter might be able to measure the difference in
resistance of a foot of it or so, but that's hardly a standard item
either.

Any suggestions?

I use either a dial calipers or a micrometer. But then the insulation
can make it sizeably larger than the value given in the wire tables.
The wire tables have a column which gives 'ohms per 1000 ft' which is
just another way of saying milliohms per foot. So if you measure ten
feet of 30 AWG it should measure 1.04 ohms. My cheap meter test leads
are something like .4 ohms, so it's really difficult to get any accuracy
at that low a resistance. I have a Leeds Northrup wheatstone bridge,
and it's not very good either at that low a resistance. So I put the
wire or whatever on a power supply and crank up the current to a quarter
amp, and then measure the V drop and calculate the resistance from that.

I use that trick too. The only sensible way to measure a coil's winding R.

Graham

 

[Pooh Bear]

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4255a86c$0$94508$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
In sci.electronics.design Albert <> wrote:
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

Micrometer.
Vernier caliper may also work.
Either under $30US.

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a Helios
dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a caliper
with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

Ohhh... I assumed anyone serious would be using a Mitotuyo ? digital LCD
vernier caliper anyway. We certainly have one.


Graham

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:57:50 +0100, the renowned John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
115ffk78ocf354d@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'wire size question', on
Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a
Helios dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a
caliper with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

In UK, you can get vernier calipers for around GBP1 (and mine check out
as quite sufficiently accurate). LCD calipers are about GBP35.

You can get low-end LCD calipers in the US for the equivalent of about
GPB8 plus tax. For GPB1 (<$1.99) I think you'd get some stamped or
plastic item that would only be good to 0.01".


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
newsDZu4uN+M8VCFwfX@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
115ffk78ocf354d@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'wire size question', on
Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a
Helios dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays
a
caliper with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

In UK, you can get vernier calipers for around GBP1 (and mine check
out

For that cheap, you probably get plastic!
http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/caliper-vernier/BET07

as quite sufficiently accurate). LCD calipers are about GBP35.

These look like a good deal on your side of the pond.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20766&item=436984
3430&rd=1

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
<115ftnqkcvc5j10@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'wire size question', on
Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

These look like a good deal on your side of the pond.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20766&item=436984
3430&rd=1

No longer there.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Michael]

LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote:
(snip)

pulling on soft-drawn copper wire is going to distort it
slightly so the measurement is going to be on the small
side. Snipping off ten or twenty short lengths, then
measuring the total width and dividing by the number of
lengths will be a bit better in accuracy.
(snip)

Really? Hmmmm ...

 

[Gary S.]

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:47:43 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
115ftnqkcvc5j10@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'wire size question', on
Sat, 9 Apr 2005:
These look like a good deal on your side of the pond.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20766&item=436984
3430&rd=1

No longer there.

The link was too long and got broken.

Much better to enclose all links in <> brackets, which will still work
right even if split/word-wrapped into multiple lines. Works with all
of the browsers I have used.

For example:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20766&item=4369843430&rd=1>
for the item above, which works as Watson intended.

There are also options like tinyurl, but some do not trust that.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4257C630.666DAD8C@hotmail.com...

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

Albert> wrote in message
news:0s8b5190savvispr1ga5he5hih23dgm41k@4ax.com...
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire
diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

I know I can weigh it, provided it's not on a spool or motor
winding
already.

My local electrical shop has a wire gauge, but it stops at 18
gauge.

A microscope might work, but ones that have calibrated distance
measuring on the eyepiece are expensive.

Perhaps a milliohm meter might be able to measure the difference
in
resistance of a foot of it or so, but that's hardly a standard
item
either.

Any suggestions?

I use either a dial calipers or a micrometer. But then the
insulation
can make it sizeably larger than the value given in the wire tables.
The wire tables have a column which gives 'ohms per 1000 ft' which
is
just another way of saying milliohms per foot. So if you measure
ten
feet of 30 AWG it should measure 1.04 ohms. My cheap meter test
leads
are something like .4 ohms, so it's really difficult to get any
accuracy
at that low a resistance. I have a Leeds Northrup wheatstone
bridge,
and it's not very good either at that low a resistance. So I put
the
wire or whatever on a power supply and crank up the current to a
quarter
amp, and then measure the V drop and calculate the resistance from
that.

I use that trick too. The only sensible way to measure a coil's
winding R.

Long as it doesn't start glowing red. ;-)

Probably not such a good idea for measuring the series R of inductors.
Unless you run a Hi Power tape demagnetizer over it when you're done..

BTW, speaking of tapes.. I read that the company that made Irish and
Ampex tape has closed. Looks like everyone has been going to CD-Rs.

http://members4.boardhost.com/culturama/msg/3217.html

> Graham

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4257C753.8258F88D@hotmail.com...

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4255a86c$0$94508$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
In sci.electronics.design Albert <> wrote:
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I
have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24
wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire
diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

Micrometer.
Vernier caliper may also work.
Either under $30US.

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a
Helios
dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a
caliper
with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

Ohhh... I assumed anyone serious would be using a Mitotuyo ? digital
LCD
vernier caliper anyway. We certainly have one.

I'm trying to figure out why they would be called vernier when they have
a LCD display.

> Graham

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
newsmlf51liibpc341vr755mj6ts5en80g93r@4ax.com...

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:57:50 +0100, the renowned John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun,
the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
115ffk78ocf354d@corp.supernews.com&gt about 'wire size question', on
Sat, 9 Apr 2005:

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a
Helios dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but
nowadays a
caliper with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

In UK, you can get vernier calipers for around GBP1 (and mine check
out
as quite sufficiently accurate). LCD calipers are about GBP35.

You can get low-end LCD calipers in the US for the equivalent of about
GPB8 plus tax. For GPB1 (<$1.99) I think you'd get some stamped or
plastic item that would only be good to 0.01".

Zackly. The ones I've seen in stores don't go down to a thousandth.
Not to mention the jaws probably wear and/or get dimpled by the sharp
edges of objects, ruining the accuracy.

But at two bucks apiece, you just treat them as disposable and discard
them at the end of the day. ;-)

Unless, of course, you're a plastic surgeon using them to measure the
results of your liposuction machine. ;-))

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the
reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Michael" <NoSpam@att.net> wrote in message
news:4257FBA6.B84FD22F@att.net...

LenAnderson@ieee.org wrote:
(snip)
pulling on soft-drawn copper wire is going to distort it
slightly so the measurement is going to be on the small
side. Snipping off ten or twenty short lengths, then
measuring the total width and dividing by the number of
lengths will be a bit better in accuracy.
(snip)

Really? Hmmmm ...

Bumfuzzles me why you'd want to cut it up into a bunch of hard-to-handle
strands. Just wind it around a dowel as someone else suggested.

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.electronics.design "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4255a86c$0$94508$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
In sci.electronics.design Albert <> wrote:
Does anyone know how to measure or determine the wire size. I have
tons of motors, solenoids, and similar items. I need some #24 wire
and
some #30 for a coil, but have to be sure regarding the wire diameter
as it's a critical ap and the author of the article says 'don't
substitute'.

Micrometer.
Vernier caliper may also work.
Either under $30US.

I don't believe anyone uses vernier calipers anymore. I've got a Helios
dial caliper made a long time ago in Deutschland, but nowadays a caliper
with a LCD is probably a lot cheaper.

I do.

I haven't got a LCD one, but a magazine sends me one every year.
Ok, it's made of plastic, but it works fine, and is accurate enough for
me, seeming to be within about .05mm

I'd like an LCD one of course.