why are cheap LCD televisions so dismal?

Rudolf wrote:

I don't know about the smaller sets, but I recently helped my father
choose a widescreen 81cm LCD TV. There were several off-brand sets,
none of which were visibly inferior, yet I opted for an LG primarily
due to fear of poor support from the cheapies. One set had poor colour
rendition (flesh tones looked too red), but the salesman was able to
adjust it fairly easily via the user menu.


You will be surprised how bad service can be with big brands and how good it
can be with cheap ones. I am doing warranty repairs for a bunch of smaller
brands and I do not want to touch big ones! Way too much hassle and mess.
Of course, there are exclusions from the rules. (I am not going to mention
names).
BTW, many cheaper LCDs use LG panels, so you may as well get a cheaper one
and effectively get same TV as LG.
Click to expand...
The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as
important. And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an
el-cheapo panel. The few extra dollars for a brand name are well
justified, especially when the major retailers are offering up to two
years interest free terms.

Dead pixels. When panel is made, some dead pixels do occur sometime. Panel
has to be thrown away. Hence the price tag, especially on the larger panels.
Each bad panel adds to the cost of good ones.
Click to expand...
Except that the larger manufacturers achieve economies of scale that
minimise any impact of that. Cheaper/smaller manufacturers can only
achieve lower costs by making a crappier product.

Some manufacturers pick up those bad panels and sell them in cheap TVs.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as you know what you are buying. For some
applications (security monitors for example), couple of dead pixels won't
matter.

In the end -- you get what you paid for, although, I believe, this is not so
true when talking about expensive big names.

Rudolf
Click to expand...

--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'If things seem to be going well,
you obviously have no idea what's really going on'
 
The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an el-cheapo panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified, especially when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free terms.
Click to expand...
Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer. Usually
all that is needed is video controller/tuner and power supply.

Rudolf
 
On Sep 28, 10:49 am, "Phil Allison" <philalli...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
u235b...@ml1.net



I have seen two LCD tellies for sale at $299, while
most other brands are $400 to $500 for their small
models. The $299 specimens had a terrible picture.

** Makes and models - please.
Click to expand...
one was the 'Soniq' at JB HIFI
the other was in Dick Smith, forget the model
 
On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, "Rudolf" <aus_electron...@rumatech.com> wrote:
The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an el-cheapo panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified, especially when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free terms.

Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer.

Usually all that is needed is video controller/tuner and power supply.
Click to expand...
All three of which can be screwed up by the el-cheapo's.

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Dave.
 
David L. Jones wrote:

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.
Click to expand...
Unless it's a Toshiba, in which case you pay for quality and get a lemon.
Lemons.


--
ant
Don't try to reply to my email addy:
I'm borrowing that of the latest
scammer/spammer
 
On 2/10/2007 22:32 ant wrote:
David L. Jones wrote:

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Unless it's a Toshiba, in which case you pay for quality and get a lemon.
Lemons.
Click to expand...
They were good once. I bought my Toshiba C-810 18" TV in August 1975
and it's still going OK.
I admit that I've had to re-solder almost every joint in the thing
and it's had a couple of electrolytic caps go leaky and a vertical
deflection transistor failed. Tube's still good though.


Bob
 
"Bob Parker"
They were good once. I bought my Toshiba C-810 18" TV in August 1975 and
it's still going OK.
I admit that I've had to re-solder almost every joint in the thing and
it's had a couple of electrolytic caps go leaky and a vertical deflection
transistor failed. Tube's still good though.
Click to expand...

** How is your dad's old axe going - Bob ?





........ Phil
 
On 2/10/2007 22:52 Phil Allison wrote:
** How is your dad's old axe going - Bob ?


....... Phil
Click to expand...
Resoldering joints isn't quite the same as replacing lots of parts,
but I know what you mean.
I've been tempted to get some kind of LCD TV to replace it, but the
discussions here are making me wonder if that's such a good idea.

Bob
 
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191327441.788425.3870@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.
Click to expand...
You may not get MORE than you pay for too often, but you sure as hell can
get LESS.
The more you pay the greater the chance of the latter unfortunately.

MrT.
 
"Bob Parker"
Phil Allison wrote:
** How is your dad's old axe going - Bob ?


Resoldering joints isn't quite the same as replacing lots of parts, but I
know what you mean.
I've been tempted to get some kind of LCD TV to replace it, but the
discussions here are making me wonder if that's such a good idea.
Click to expand...

** If you can find a Big W store with any of those AWA brand, 17 inch
Monitor/TVs on sale for $ 299 - grab one.

BTW

The one I saw was not faulty, in any way.

The customer used it to demo her new " magic microphone " to me.

If you dunno what that is - try Google.

What will they think of next ..................



........ Phil
 
On 2/10/2007 23:06 Phil Allison wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:


** If you can find a Big W store with any of those AWA brand, 17 inch
Monitor/TVs on sale for $ 299 - grab one.

BTW

The one I saw was not faulty, in any way.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I've been browsing various retailer sites to
see who might be flogging them (Big W's online presence doesn't seem to
extend to having catalog info).
I might go to a Big W for a first-hand look.



The customer used it to demo her new " magic microphone " to me.

If you dunno what that is - try Google.
Click to expand...
Struth - not for me!




What will they think of next ..................
Click to expand...
I dread to think about that....



Bob
 
On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:17:21 -0700, "David L. Jones"
<altzone@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, "Rudolf" <aus_electron...@rumatech.com> wrote:
The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an el-cheapo panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified, especially when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free terms.

Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer.

Usually all that is needed is video controller/tuner and power supply.

All three of which can be screwed up by the el-cheapo's.

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Dave.
Click to expand...
That tired old mantra is a never ending source of annoyance for me.
This kind of FUD is usually recited by those who have never done more
than research the sales brochure and price tag. The number of times
I've been let down by an upmarket product is just too many to
remember. In the present case I probably would have chosen a cheaper
panel if its warranty matched that of the LG, or if I could have had a
peek inside. I have no experience in LCD TVs, but if they are anything
like LCD monitors, then most of the work is probably done by a single
ASIC with only a few support components. Assuming the ASIC is
reliable, then I'd only have to be prepared to repair the PSU (usually
straightforward), the inverter, or the tuner (which would probably
become available in the aftermarket). I presume that generic
replacement CCFLs will soon be available from WES and similar sources.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:58:15 +1000, "Rudolf"
<aus_electronics@rumatech.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

I don't know about the smaller sets, but I recently helped my father
choose a widescreen 81cm LCD TV. There were several off-brand sets,
none of which were visibly inferior, yet I opted for an LG primarily
due to fear of poor support from the cheapies. One set had poor colour
rendition (flesh tones looked too red), but the salesman was able to
adjust it fairly easily via the user menu.

You will be surprised how bad service can be with big brands and how good it
can be with cheap ones. I am doing warranty repairs for a bunch of smaller
brands and I do not want to touch big ones! Way too much hassle and mess.
Of course, there are exclusions from the rules. (I am not going to mention
names).

BTW, many cheaper LCDs use LG panels, so you may as well get a cheaper one
and effectively get same TV as LG.
Click to expand...
These days it seems almost everything is badge engineered. You never
really know what's inside until it breaks down. That's why I'm cynical
when it comes to brand names.

Right now I'm repairing a 10 year old TC-29R20 Panasonic TV (tuner
fault) which has a tired US-made RCA CRT. One of the last Philips TVs
I repaired had a low emission Zenith CRT, also US-made. The best CRTs
in my experience were made by Philips and Mitsubishi, but even
Mitsubishi stopped making their own many years ago.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 
Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:17:21 -0700, "David L. Jones"
altzone@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, "Rudolf" <aus_electron...@rumatech.com> wrote:

The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an el-cheapo panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified, especially when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free terms.

Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer.

Usually all that is needed is video controller/tuner and power supply.

All three of which can be screwed up by the el-cheapo's.

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Dave.


That tired old mantra is a never ending source of annoyance for me.
This kind of FUD is usually recited by those who have never done more
than research the sales brochure and price tag. The number of times
I've been let down by an upmarket product is just too many to
remember. In the present case I probably would have chosen a cheaper
panel if its warranty matched that of the LG, or if I could have had a
peek inside. I have no experience in LCD TVs, but if they are anything
like LCD monitors, then most of the work is probably done by a single
ASIC with only a few support components. Assuming the ASIC is
reliable, then I'd only have to be prepared to repair the PSU (usually
straightforward), the inverter, or the tuner (which would probably
become available in the aftermarket). I presume that generic
replacement CCFLs will soon be available from WES and similar sources.

- Franc Zabkar
Click to expand...
Do yourself a favor.. go look at a Sony Bravia, then a Soniq, or even
the much hyped LG, and then try and say there's no difference.

--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'When in doubt mumble. When in trouble delegate'
 
"lynx" <none@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:taEMi.4591$H22.1613@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:17:21 -0700, "David L. Jones"
altzone@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, "Rudolf" <aus_electron...@rumatech.com> wrote:

The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as
important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an el-cheapo
panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified, especially
when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free terms.

Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer.
Usually all that is needed is video controller/tuner and power
supply.

All three of which can be screwed up by the el-cheapo's.

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Dave.


That tired old mantra is a never ending source of annoyance for me.
This kind of FUD is usually recited by those who have never done more
than research the sales brochure and price tag. The number of times
I've been let down by an upmarket product is just too many to
remember. In the present case I probably would have chosen a cheaper
panel if its warranty matched that of the LG, or if I could have had a
peek inside. I have no experience in LCD TVs, but if they are anything
like LCD monitors, then most of the work is probably done by a single
ASIC with only a few support components. Assuming the ASIC is
reliable, then I'd only have to be prepared to repair the PSU (usually
straightforward), the inverter, or the tuner (which would probably
become available in the aftermarket). I presume that generic
replacement CCFLs will soon be available from WES and similar sources.

- Franc Zabkar


Do yourself a favor.. go look at a Sony Bravia, then a Soniq, or even the
much hyped LG, and then try and say there's no difference.
Click to expand...
As someone who has done a fair bit of research I would say that with one
exception (Sony Bravia) all LCD TVs are crap. I would buy a Bravia tomorrow
but I need 3 RGB SCART connections for my equipment (and changing everything
at once is a bit expensive).

--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'When in doubt mumble. When in trouble delegate'
Click to expand...
 
Gilgamesh wrote:

"lynx" <none@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:taEMi.4591$H22.1613@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:17:21 -0700, "David L. Jones"
altzone@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, "Rudolf" <aus_electron...@rumatech.com> wrote:

The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as
important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an el-cheapo
panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified, especially
when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free terms.


Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer.
Usually all that is needed is video controller/tuner and power
supply.


All three of which can be screwed up by the el-cheapo's.

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Dave.


That tired old mantra is a never ending source of annoyance for me.
This kind of FUD is usually recited by those who have never done more
than research the sales brochure and price tag. The number of times
I've been let down by an upmarket product is just too many to
remember. In the present case I probably would have chosen a cheaper
panel if its warranty matched that of the LG, or if I could have had a
peek inside. I have no experience in LCD TVs, but if they are anything
like LCD monitors, then most of the work is probably done by a single
ASIC with only a few support components. Assuming the ASIC is
reliable, then I'd only have to be prepared to repair the PSU (usually
straightforward), the inverter, or the tuner (which would probably
become available in the aftermarket). I presume that generic
replacement CCFLs will soon be available from WES and similar sources.

- Franc Zabkar


Do yourself a favor.. go look at a Sony Bravia, then a Soniq, or even the
much hyped LG, and then try and say there's no difference.


As someone who has done a fair bit of research I would say that with one
exception (Sony Bravia) all LCD TVs are crap. I would buy a Bravia tomorrow
but I need 3 RGB SCART connections for my equipment (and changing everything
at once is a bit expensive).
Click to expand...
Plasma rules! a friend is getting one of these:
http://panasonic.com.au/products/details.cfm?objectID=3416 I've got the
50" model.
LCD's are making serious inroads into the market tho. I think it's
because they look good in the showrooms, and because they're available
in smaller sizes. btw.. you can pick up those SCART to RGB adaptors
quite cheap on eBay.


--

rgds,

Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'Press any key...no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE!'
 
On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:52:37 +0930, lynx <none@nothere.com> wrote:

Gilgamesh wrote:

"lynx" <none@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:taEMi.4591$H22.1613@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:17:21 -0700, "David L. Jones"
altzone@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Oct 2, 1:31 pm, "Rudolf" <aus_electron...@rumatech.com> wrote:

The panel is not the whole story. The design and quality of the
electronics and the circuitry that drives the panel is just as
important.
And not to mention reliability. There's no way I'd buy an
el-cheapo panel.
The few extra dollars for a brand name are well justified,
especially when
the major retailers are offering up to two years interest free
terms.


Panel usually comes with the support boards from panel manufacturer.
Usually all that is needed is video controller/tuner and
power supply.


All three of which can be screwed up by the el-cheapo's.

You usually get what you pay for, it's a universal rule for every
electronic product on the market.

Dave.


That tired old mantra is a never ending source of annoyance for me.
This kind of FUD is usually recited by those who have never done more
than research the sales brochure and price tag. The number of times
I've been let down by an upmarket product is just too many to
remember. In the present case I probably would have chosen a cheaper
panel if its warranty matched that of the LG, or if I could have had a
peek inside. I have no experience in LCD TVs, but if they are anything
like LCD monitors, then most of the work is probably done by a single
ASIC with only a few support components. Assuming the ASIC is
reliable, then I'd only have to be prepared to repair the PSU (usually
straightforward), the inverter, or the tuner (which would probably
become available in the aftermarket). I presume that generic
replacement CCFLs will soon be available from WES and similar sources.

- Franc Zabkar


Do yourself a favor.. go look at a Sony Bravia, then a Soniq, or even
the much hyped LG, and then try and say there's no difference.


As someone who has done a fair bit of research I would say that with
one exception (Sony Bravia) all LCD TVs are crap. I would buy a Bravia
tomorrow but I need 3 RGB SCART connections for my equipment (and
changing everything at once is a bit expensive).


Plasma rules! a friend is getting one of these:
http://panasonic.com.au/products/details.cfm?objectID=3416 I've got the
50" model.
LCD's are making serious inroads into the market tho. I think it's
because they look good in the showrooms, and because they're available
in smaller sizes. btw.. you can pick up those SCART to RGB adaptors
quite cheap on eBay.
Click to expand...

Cheaply. They are quite cheap. You can buy them quite cheaply.

A jihad on adverb deniers.


--
Osama Ben Cousins. I'm a footy-playing, drug-dealing, car-bombing
role-model for your kids.
 
hi, all lcd tv`s are crap , you go to the side a bit and it looks crap ,
with a plasma , does it look crap when you go to the side a bit hmmmmm,
errr , let me think errr,,, NO !!

mark k



"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:6ve5g3ldpleai2asmsk5t2v1osl8159p2f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:58:15 +1000, "Rudolf"
aus_electronics@rumatech.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

I don't know about the smaller sets, but I recently helped my father
choose a widescreen 81cm LCD TV. There were several off-brand sets,
none of which were visibly inferior, yet I opted for an LG primarily
due to fear of poor support from the cheapies. One set had poor colour
rendition (flesh tones looked too red), but the salesman was able to
adjust it fairly easily via the user menu.

You will be surprised how bad service can be with big brands and how good
it
can be with cheap ones. I am doing warranty repairs for a bunch of smaller
brands and I do not want to touch big ones! Way too much hassle and mess.
Of course, there are exclusions from the rules. (I am not going to mention
names).

BTW, many cheaper LCDs use LG panels, so you may as well get a cheaper one
and effectively get same TV as LG.

These days it seems almost everything is badge engineered. You never
really know what's inside until it breaks down. That's why I'm cynical
when it comes to brand names.

Right now I'm repairing a 10 year old TC-29R20 Panasonic TV (tuner
fault) which has a tired US-made RCA CRT. One of the last Philips TVs
I repaired had a low emission Zenith CRT, also US-made. The best CRTs
in my experience were made by Philips and Mitsubishi, but even
Mitsubishi stopped making their own many years ago.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Click to expand...
 
mark krawczuk wrote:
hi, all lcd tv`s are crap , you go to the side a bit and it looks crap ,
with a plasma , does it look crap when you go to the side a bit hmmmmm,
errr , let me think errr,,, NO !!
Click to expand...
This has been a problem in the past, but I was looking at one the other
day (just passing time - I'm not yet in the market to buy), with this
particular issue in mind, and it was providing a decent picture at any
angle that anyone in their right mind would want to watch it from.

Sylvia.
 
mark krawczuk wrote:
hi, all lcd tv`s are crap , you go to the side a bit and it looks crap ,
with a plasma , does it look crap when you go to the side a bit hmmmmm,
errr , let me think errr,,, NO !!
Click to expand...
Only the very cheapest screens these days have this problem. Most of the
modern ones have very large viewing angles.

Cheers,
Nicholas Sherlock
 
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