White Noise

[Paul Burridge]

Greetings, friends,

On the subject of this new film, the plot of which you will all no
doubt be aware of by now, has anyone ever experienced unaccountable
EVP on any recording they've ever made? I have, but cannot in all
honesty ascribe it to anything supernatural. From having trawled
through Google, however, it appears quite a few folks *are* believers.
What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

p.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Brad Albing]

Paul Burridge wrote:

Greetings, friends,

[snip]unaccountable EVP [snip] What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

I believe it's caused by the tendency of the brain to try to fit a
pattern to the chaos - even if there isn't really a pattern there. This
is (e.g.) akin to the phenomena of coming home to one's empty house and,
hearing nothing but the whoosh of the blower on the furnace, being sure
that the radio is on (playing music or a DJ's voice). Upon attending to
the "radio," one realizes it is not on and there really is no
discernable intelligence contained in the noise.

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:25:17 +0000, Paul Burridge
<pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

Greetings, friends,

On the subject of this new film, the plot of which you will all no
doubt be aware of by now, has anyone ever experienced unaccountable
EVP on any recording they've ever made? I have, but cannot in all
honesty ascribe it to anything supernatural. From having trawled
through Google, however, it appears quite a few folks *are* believers.
What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

p.

Tape head preamps make pretty good AM detectors, and erase heads
aren't perfect. Plus, there are lots of loonies around.

John

 

[john jardine]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0djnt0pu1umjb8ohcroe02o51p9cv0cri0@4ax.com...

Greetings, friends,

On the subject of this new film, the plot of which you will all no
doubt be aware of by now, has anyone ever experienced unaccountable
EVP on any recording they've ever made? I have, but cannot in all
honesty ascribe it to anything supernatural. From having trawled
through Google, however, it appears quite a few folks *are* believers.
What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

p.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

Not unaccountable. I can feed white noise to headphones and select a
particular melody and then listen to it as it surfaces out of the noise.
Same process as running noise through a Hi Q filter. A sinewave come out as
if from nowhere.
regards
john

 

[Bob Stephens]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:08:11 -0000, john jardine wrote:

On the subject of this new film, the plot of which you will all no
doubt be aware of by now, has anyone ever experienced unaccountable
EVP on any recording they've ever made? I have, but cannot in all
honesty ascribe it to anything supernatural. From having trawled
through Google, however, it appears quite a few folks *are* believers.
What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

p.

It happened to me once on an old TEAC 4 - track tape recorder. We were
bouncing vocal tracks back and forth to free up a track, and all of a
sudden a clear, basso-profundo voice chimed in singing right along with us
(two tenors)- pretty eerie at first. I have no idea where it came from,
subharmonic I guess.


Bob

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:39:16 -0000, "john jardine"
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

Exactly!.

It's our pattern sensitised neural nets at work.

You mean as in our evolved tendency to make faces out of abstract
patterns? I guess so, in many cases, that's true. However, the BBC did
play one recording (on an item concerning this subject) on Radio 4
this morning that had to be something else. It was definitely a
woman's voice that seemed to be saying "lie down" but I couldn't be
sure as the radio I happened to be listening to it on was one of these
tiny, tinny, Japanese jobbies and didn't do the Beeb's broadcast
quality tapes justice. Anyone else hear it?
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[john jardine]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:72sqt05i5ns29dh27f6hvapvt84299l5lr@4ax.com...

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:39:16 -0000, "john jardine"
john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

Exactly!.

It's our pattern sensitised neural nets at work.

You mean as in our evolved tendency to make faces out of abstract
patterns? I guess so, in many cases, that's true. However, the BBC did
play one recording (on an item concerning this subject) on Radio 4
this morning that had to be something else. It was definitely a
woman's voice that seemed to be saying "lie down" but I couldn't be
sure as the radio I happened to be listening to it on was one of these
tiny, tinny, Japanese jobbies and didn't do the Beeb's broadcast
quality tapes justice. Anyone else hear it?
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

Once it's been recorded for transmision then the effect is 'locked' and
we'll always hear it the same way.
But it's the original source reproducing equipment that will add variability
to every play. It's own noise artefacts randomly modulating existing noise.
Make a number of recordings from it and then select out and record the
finest example of ghost-speak and the film studios and TV will fall over
themselves to buy it. As John W. mentioned, the odd effect was different
every time they listened.

Anyway I'm losing confidence in the ability of the Beeb to report anything
technical. If it's not some rap artiste or DJ being interviewed on their
fine body of work or some kiddy singer or Z list personality, then the Beeb
haven't a f***ing clue.

regards
john

 

[Ian]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:72sqt05i5ns29dh27f6hvapvt84299l5lr@4ax.com...

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:39:16 -0000, "john jardine"
john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

Exactly!.

It's our pattern sensitised neural nets at work.

You mean as in our evolved tendency to make faces out of abstract
patterns? I guess so, in many cases, that's true. However, the BBC did
play one recording (on an item concerning this subject) on Radio 4
this morning that had to be something else. It was definitely a
woman's voice that seemed to be saying "lie down" but I couldn't be
sure as the radio I happened to be listening to it on was one of these
tiny, tinny, Japanese jobbies and didn't do the Beeb's broadcast
quality tapes justice. Anyone else hear it?

Hi Paul:

I didn't hear the program, however if you would post the program name
and approximate time maybe we could all hear it using the Beeb's short
term archiving.

Regards
Ian

 

[Rich The Philosophizer]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 09:35:13 -0500, Brad Albing wrote:

Paul Burridge wrote:
Greetings, friends,

[snip]unaccountable EVP [snip] What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

I believe it's caused by the tendency of the brain to try to fit a
pattern to the chaos - even if there isn't really a pattern there. This
is (e.g.) akin to the phenomena of coming home to one's empty house and,
hearing nothing but the whoosh of the blower on the furnace, being sure
that the radio is on (playing music or a DJ's voice). Upon attending to
the "radio," one realizes it is not on and there really is no
discernable intelligence contained in the noise.

You'd be surprised what an empty factory can say at 3 AM. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Ben Bradley]

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 00:23:45 -0000, "john jardine"
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

"Paul Burridge" <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:72sqt05i5ns29dh27f6hvapvt84299l5lr@4ax.com...
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:39:16 -0000, "john jardine"
john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

Exactly!.

It's our pattern sensitised neural nets at work.

You mean as in our evolved tendency to make faces out of abstract
patterns? I guess so, in many cases, that's true. However, the BBC did
play one recording (on an item concerning this subject) on Radio 4
this morning that had to be something else. It was definitely a
woman's voice that seemed to be saying "lie down" but I couldn't be
sure as the radio I happened to be listening to it on was one of these
tiny, tinny, Japanese jobbies and didn't do the Beeb's broadcast
quality tapes justice. Anyone else hear it?
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

Once it's been recorded for transmision then the effect is 'locked' and
we'll always hear it the same way.
But it's the original source reproducing equipment that will add variability
to every play. It's own noise artefacts randomly modulating existing noise.

A good tape recorder will have playback electronics that generates
substantially less noise than any tape it plays back. I'm not saying
the original was played back on a 'good' recorder, though...

Make a number of recordings from it and then select out and record the
finest example of ghost-speak and the film studios and TV will fall over
themselves to buy it. As John W. mentioned, the odd effect was different
every time they listened.

I have no doubt that the perceptions of a recording of random noise
can be different every time it's played, even if it's the exact same
thing played every time (record it to a CDR and it plays back in any
decent player, and and any truly varying noise background will be 90dB
below the playback "signal").
Both the perceptions and the actual noise can vary, but at least we
can control for the actual noise.

Anyway I'm losing confidence in the ability of the Beeb to report anything
technical. If it's not some rap artiste or DJ being interviewed on their
fine body of work or some kiddy singer or Z list personality, then the Beeb
haven't a f***ing clue.

That's a shame, I've heard good things about BBC news over the
years, that they were the last bastion of good news reporting. It
seems I and many others became disillusioned of US news sources years
or decades ago, if we ever thought they were reliable.

regards
john

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THES
Edial.pipex.com> wrote (in <r492u01gp1qs3o8u0l0qlcimd86u9mkmu6@4ax.com&gt
about 'White Noise', on Sun, 9 Jan 2005:

'0828 Electronic Voice Phonomena'.

(Do hope the beeb's spelling standards aren't reflected in that!)

It's a pun so weak that even I wouldn't commit it.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:17:18 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THES
Edial.pipex.com> wrote (in <r492u01gp1qs3o8u0l0qlcimd86u9mkmu6@4ax.com&gt
about 'White Noise', on Sun, 9 Jan 2005:

'0828 Electronic Voice Phonomena'.

(Do hope the beeb's spelling standards aren't reflected in that!)

It's a pun so weak that even I wouldn't commit it.

Eek. I didn't even spot it until your response here made me relook it.
I give it at least a four. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Ben Bradley]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:08:18 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:25:17 +0000, Paul Burridge
pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

Greetings, friends,

On the subject of this new film, the plot of which you will all no
doubt be aware of by now,

I'd heard of the name, and at least it's not a political movie (!).
(ISTR some political pundit using the term "white noise" to refer to
some other pundits). So I looked it up, there a very short plot
description here:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0375210/plotsummary
and lots of "user reviews" here:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0375210/usercomments

has anyone ever experienced unaccountable
EVP on any recording they've ever made?

I googled for it, found out what "Electronic Voice Phenomena" is,
and geez... didn't I just mention Art Bell somewhere? Yes, in the "Did
we ever go to the moon???" thread in sci.astro.amateur.

I have, but cannot in all
honesty ascribe it to anything supernatural. From having trawled
through Google, however, it appears quite a few folks *are* believers.
What thinketh the Panel on the matter?

p.

Tape head preamps make pretty good AM detectors, and erase heads
aren't perfect.

Speak of the devil, this recent news article has some interesting
history regarding a faulty erase head:

http://www.oanow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=OAN%2FMGArticle%2FOAN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779976767&path=!news!localnews

And as far as such "phenomena" in electronic equipment, I once
heard a CB radio transmission, apparently from a taxi cab (this was
the 1970's), playing LOUDLY through a transistor guitar amp. Radio
interference happens all too often, as many posters here can attest.


I suppose the question reduces to "Well, what if mundane things
such as unwanted AM rectification and partially erased tape are ruled
out?" and my short answer is I just don't believe it.

Plus, there are lots of loonies around.

A book I really enjoyed on the subject is "In Search of the Light:
The Adventures of a Parapsychologist" by Susan Blackmore. These Amazon
reviews sum it up fairly well, though I should write my own:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573920614
What I got out of the book was the power of belief - the belief in
paranormal phenomena by all the researchers, and that hard evidence of
some phenomenon was "just around the corner." In traditional
scientific studies, these biases would be very bad. They're bad here
too, but you would think that if there were "something there" to be
found, these would be the people to find it and it could later be
verified by researchers with less bias and better methods.
In a strict scientific sense you cannot prove the absence of
something ("Absence of evidence is not evidence of absense"), and it
seems the author ends the book still having hope, if "not knowing."
But it sure helped me dispell any possible belief or "curiosity" I may
have had in that stuff.

John

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley