When London is submerged and New York is awash...

W

Winfield Hill

Guest
Hot times coming up this week in the Antarctic: A collision is imminent
between a 1,200-square-mile iceberg (the size of Long Island) and the
Drygalski Ice Tongue, at one end of the Ross Ice Shelf. As a result,
the huge ice tongue itself may soon break off and float into the ocean.

ETC (estimated time to collision), four days and counting. Film at 11,
http://www.nasa.gov/mpg/104952main_B15A_dates.mpg

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424796.100
"When London is submerged and New York awash, we may look back on 2004
as the year when the water started rising. Observations collected from
both North and South Poles show that the world's ice sheets and glaciers
are disintegrating faster than anyone thought possible."


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1311007.stm

http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

http://www.john-daly.com/

http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm (note date!)

http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html / http://www.sepp.org/LDsigs.html
 
Winfield Hill wrote:
Hot times coming up this week in the Antarctic: A collision is
imminent between a 1,200-square-mile iceberg (the size of Long
Island) and the Drygalski Ice Tongue, at one end of the Ross Ice
Shelf. As a result, the huge ice tongue itself may soon break off
and float into the ocean.

ETC (estimated time to collision), four days and counting. Film at
11, http://www.nasa.gov/mpg/104952main_B15A_dates.mpg

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424796.100
"When London is submerged and New York awash, we may look back on
2004 as the year when the water started rising. Observations
collected from both North and South Poles show that the world's ice
sheets and glaciers are disintegrating faster than anyone thought
possible."
Click to expand...
There was an interesting programme on UK channel 4 television last night,
called "What would Jesus drive?" about Americans' love of their gas-guzzling
automobiles. A typical SUV does 16-19 mpg; Americans drive a lot because
it's a big country; and it only costs the equivalent of GBP 8.50 to fill-up
in the US, whilst it costs GBP 40 in the UK.
 
Guy Macon wrote...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1311007.stm
http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
http://www.john-daly.com/
http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm (note date!)
http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html / http://www.sepp.org/LDsigs.html
Click to expand...
Heads in the sand.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
Guy Macon <_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1311007.stm

http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

http://www.john-daly.com/

http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm (note date!)

http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html / http://www.sepp.org/LDsigs.html
Click to expand...
Interesting stuff.

Anyone know how temperatures were estimated for charts like the one at
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html ?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Winfield Hill <hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:
Guy Macon wrote...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1311007.stm
http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
http://www.john-daly.com/
http://www.globalclimate.org/Newsweek.htm (note date!)
http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html / http://www.sepp.org/LDsigs.html

Heads in the sand.
Click to expand...
Even fairly minor effects (the shutting down of the Gulf stream, which keeps
much of europe many C warmer than otherwise) may cost more than a sun-shade.

Of course, if you thought the arguments about water rights were fun,
imagine the debates over where to set the dial.
 
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:54:36 -0000, "Andrew Holme" <andrew@nospam.com>
wrote:

There was an interesting programme on UK channel 4 television last night,
called "What would Jesus drive?" about Americans' love of their gas-guzzling
automobiles. A typical SUV does 16-19 mpg; Americans drive a lot because
it's a big country; and it only costs the equivalent of GBP 8.50 to fill-up
in the US, whilst it costs GBP 40 in the UK.
Click to expand...
Yes, we pay outrageous prices here for an oil exporting country. If
the US government increased fuel duty to even half our level, they
could afford to run a decent health-care system. I can't blame 'em for
driving around in SUVs at those petrol prices, but personally I'd
sooner have an old Lincoln Continental MkIV (or III) and yes, I know
they only to 6 miles to the gallon.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.
 
On 11 Jan 2005 14:03:54 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Even fairly minor effects (the shutting down of the Gulf stream, which keeps
much of europe many C warmer than otherwise) may cost more than a sun-shade.
Click to expand...
The shutting off of the Gulf Stream is a "minor effect"?? <faint>
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> schreef in bericht
news:2lq7u0h1q3929lrq4hcim23irqhhb6rmvm@4ax.com...
On 11 Jan 2005 03:59:04 -0800, Winfield Hill
hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Hot times coming up this week in the Antarctic: A collision is imminent
between a 1,200-square-mile iceberg (the size of Long Island) and the
Drygalski Ice Tongue, at one end of the Ross Ice Shelf. As a result,
the huge ice tongue itself may soon break off and float into the ocean.

ETC (estimated time to collision), four days and counting. Film at 11,
http://www.nasa.gov/mpg/104952main_B15A_dates.mpg

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424796.100
"When London is submerged and New York awash, we may look back on 2004
as the year when the water started rising. Observations collected from
both North and South Poles show that the world's ice sheets and glaciers
are disintegrating faster than anyone thought possible."

Well, Win (Chicken Little) Hill, I await the big event ;-)
Click to expand...
Since Jim seems to have the same self-indulgent attitude to his diet as he
does to global warming, he's unlikely to be around when it screws up life in
Arizona.

It's a bit different for people who live closer to sea-level, or worry about
the sort of world their kids are going to become senile in.

--------------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
Winfield Hill <hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Hot times coming up this week in the Antarctic: A collision is imminent
between a 1,200-square-mile iceberg (the size of Long Island) and the
Drygalski Ice Tongue, at one end of the Ross Ice Shelf. As a result,
the huge ice tongue itself may soon break off and float into the ocean.

ETC (estimated time to collision), four days and counting. Film at 11,
http://www.nasa.gov/mpg/104952main_B15A_dates.mpg

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424796.100
"When London is submerged and New York awash, we may look back on 2004
as the year when the water started rising. Observations collected from
both North and South Poles show that the world's ice sheets and glaciers
are disintegrating faster than anyone thought possible."
Click to expand...
Damn, my house is already several meters below sea level.

--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl
 
Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2005 14:03:54 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk
wrote:

Even fairly minor effects (the shutting down of the Gulf stream, which keeps
much of europe many C warmer than otherwise) may cost more than a sun-shade.

The shutting off of the Gulf Stream is a "minor effect"?? <faint
Click to expand...
Few million people die, most of earth remains habitable.
Minor.
Major is earth becomes quasi-venusian, and can't support non-technological
human life anywhere on the planet.
 
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:15:26 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org
wrote (in <cs0saq$huf$1@reader13.wxs.nl>) about 'When London is
submerged and New York is awash...', on Tue, 11 Jan 2005:
It's a bit different for people who live closer to sea-level, or worry
about the sort of world their kids are going to become senile in.

....or are NOT going to have the opportunity to become senile in.

The north west of England and south west Scotland have had 18 inches of
rain in 36 hours over the week-end. Now today there are 100 MPH winds in
the north of Ireland. This is not unprecedented but is very rare.

The evidence that climate is changing is pretty convincing. How much is
due to human activity and how much to other effects is much less
certain. But increased CO2 in the troposphere increases the stored
energy, so potentially increases the incidence of stormy weather.
Click to expand...

Weather has been chaotic and climate has been changing since the
planet condensed out of the muck. We've had droughts, ice ages,
mini-ice-ages, asteroid whacks, massive vulcanism, all sorts of neat
stuff. Why should we expect the climate to be static now?

But the world wants to be middle-class, and that takes energy.
Realistically, the only way to keep the CO2 down is to condemn a lot
of humanity to poverty.

Oh, we're having a dramatic, wet, sorta violent winter here in
California. We had pounding rain, hail, and lightning/thunder last
night, all rare here.

John
 
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:41:06 GMT, "Mike Engelhardt" <nospam@spam.org>
wrote:

Andrew,

There was an interesting programme on UK channel 4
television last night, called "What would Jesus
drive?" about Americans' love of their gas-guzzling
automobiles. A typical SUV does 16-19 mpg; Americans
drive a lot because it's a big country; and it only
costs the equivalent of GBP 8.50 to fill-up in the
US, whilst it costs GBP 40 in the UK.

Last Fall I had the great pleasure of visiting
Europe for a lecture tour on LTspice. In Germany,
I was driven about some by a local in his BMW M5.
He is a driving enthusiast. While cruising at
265km/hr(162mph) on the Autobahn, he asked what I
drive. When I replied that I drive a mini pickup
truck, he snorted, "A gas guzzler!" I was as
floored as his gas peddle, thinking how his car
has twice as many cylinders as my truck and there's
a gas-guzzler tax on his car in this country
but not my truck. And in Europe it's going to get
worse, the next M5 model is moving from 400+ horses
to 500. What a keen luxury -- being politically
so correct with the pedal to the metal.

--Mike
Click to expand...
All I ever managed was 135MPH driving a rental car, Opel Vega, from
Frankfurt to Buhlertal ;-)

What's amazing is the HUGE disparity in economic level between
upper-level and mid-level management.

The mid-level types live in homes that we, in the USA, would call
apartments.

The upper-level types appear to live like kings... driving the most
expensive Beamers, huge homes.

And the EuroPeons dare to criticize our social structure?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:08:18 GMT, nico@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
wrote:

Winfield Hill <hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:

Hot times coming up this week in the Antarctic: A collision is imminent
between a 1,200-square-mile iceberg (the size of Long Island) and the
Drygalski Ice Tongue, at one end of the Ross Ice Shelf. As a result,
the huge ice tongue itself may soon break off and float into the ocean.

ETC (estimated time to collision), four days and counting. Film at 11,
http://www.nasa.gov/mpg/104952main_B15A_dates.mpg

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424796.100
"When London is submerged and New York awash, we may look back on 2004
as the year when the water started rising. Observations collected from
both North and South Poles show that the world's ice sheets and glaciers
are disintegrating faster than anyone thought possible."

Damn, my house is already several meters below sea level.
Click to expand...

Where's that? I grew up in New Orleans, about -3 feet, half a mile
from the Mississippi river, which peaks at +30 or something like that.
Some day New Orleans will transform from a city to a lake.

My kitchen floor is now +365 feet, optimistically out of range of the
average tsunami. An tsunami like the one in the Indian Ocean, if it
hit San Francisco, would only propagate a few blocks inland.

John
 
On 11 Jan 2005 17:29:45 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2005 14:03:54 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk
wrote:

Even fairly minor effects (the shutting down of the Gulf stream, which keeps
much of europe many C warmer than otherwise) may cost more than a sun-shade.

The shutting off of the Gulf Stream is a "minor effect"?? <faint

Few million people die, most of earth remains habitable.
Minor.
Major is earth becomes quasi-venusian, and can't support non-technological
human life anywhere on the planet.
Click to expand...
By the time that might begin to happen, we'll have the ability to move
the orbit of Earth out enough to compensate. It's really not all that
hard to do.

John
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highSNIPland
THIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote (in <2e38u0dfpi59pfcvctsgci2efdaf7ool5b@
4ax.com>) about 'When London is submerged and New York is awash...', on
Tue, 11 Jan 2005:

But the world wants to be middle-class, and that takes energy.
Realistically, the only way to keep the CO2 down is to condemn a lot of
humanity to poverty.
Click to expand...
There are two other ways:

- use nuclear power and throw money at the waste storage issue;

- throw money at alternative power sources, which are suffering from
severe lack of investment, and energy-saving.

Nuke is quicker and dirtier, alternative/saving is slower and cleaner.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:16:05 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

Damn, my house is already several meters below sea level.

===========================

Don't be too alarmed. You have 50 years to build a sea wall.

The countries around the Eastern Indian Ocean only had 50 seconds.

But USA citizens ought to start thinking about the Earth Warming they are
causing. Better to spend taxation on that rather than on a continuing,
futile, lost war in Iraq.
Click to expand...

Uh, pardon me, but why do you blame the US for global warming? Why
don't you tell the Chinese and the British to shut down their coal
mines? And ask the Arabs to please stop selling all that nasty oil?

I guess all the Europeans and Asians and Russians all bicycle
everywhere they go, and just go to sleep when it gets dark.

You might also ask everybody else to quit making CFC's, like the US
has done.

John
 
John Larkin wrote:
Uh, pardon me, but why do you blame the US for global warming? Why
don't you tell the Chinese and the British to shut down their coal
mines?
Click to expand...
Most UK coal mines have closed; we burn natural gas these days.

I guess all the Europeans and Asians and Russians all bicycle
everywhere they go, and just go to sleep when it gets dark.
Click to expand...
No, but the USA consumes twice as much energy per capita.
 
Damn, my house is already several meters below sea level.

===========================
Click to expand...

Don't be too alarmed. You have 50 years to build a sea wall.

The countries around the Eastern Indian Ocean only had 50 seconds.

But USA citizens ought to start thinking about the Earth Warming they are
causing. Better to spend taxation on that rather than on a continuing,
futile, lost war in Iraq.
 
In article <cs18do$9q7$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk>, andrew@nospam.com
says...
John Larkin wrote:
Uh, pardon me, but why do you blame the US for global warming? Why
don't you tell the Chinese and the British to shut down their coal
mines?

Most UK coal mines have closed; we burn natural gas these days.

I guess all the Europeans and Asians and Russians all bicycle
everywhere they go, and just go to sleep when it gets dark.

No, but the USA consumes twice as much energy per capita.
Click to expand...
After we shut off the Gulf Stream, you'll catch up.

--
Keith
 
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