J
junee
Guest
On Nov 26, 7:27 am, JosephKK <quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Got it.
any doubts here?
by comparing with a ' Big number '
Got it.
any doubts here?
D
Don McKenzie
Guest
John Doe wrote:
The unary numeral system is the bijective base-1 numeral system.
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
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well, no, Unary stones.John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
We stopped using stones to count with a long time ago,
Binary stones.
The unary numeral system is the bijective base-1 numeral system.
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
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D
Don McKenzie
Guest
junee wrote:
A unary base 1 system is very impractical, for a multitude of reasons as
described by the previous posters.
Makes my eyes spin (inset rolly eye icon here)
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
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Even morse code is a clocked binary text system.
A unary base 1 system is very impractical, for a multitude of reasons as
described by the previous posters.
Makes my eyes spin (inset rolly eye icon here)
Don...
--
Don McKenzie
Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000's of electronic items
T
Tim Williams
Guest
Well, the logic would be interesting at least, even if utterly impractical.
So just use it for smaller numbers, NBD. Represent larger numbers with
different forms, like digits or powers -- that's how bigger numbers always
end up represented anyway (in order of scale: digits, matissa with exponent,
exponents of exponents, raising operator). That's just implementation, and
as long as you've cooked up a Turing-complete computer, it doesn't really
matter in the end.
I think the biggest impracticality that people think is, well how the hell
do you represent 1000? With a thousand wires? That's absurd of course, and
besides, it demands that there be a zero (7 = ...00000001111111), and that
isn't necessary. (There is the necessity of null as the absence of one,
however. In that sense it is still binary.) Indeed, a number can be
represented on just one wire, and electronic rules require that to be
something like voltage or current or time. (Frequency, phase, impedance
(complex!) and more properties can be sent down wires, but I can't imagine
how complex an impedance-signaled computer would be to construct!) Time
would be easy because, digitally, it could be ticked off in discrete
quantities with a clock (a bus could be self-clocked, so only data and
ground wires are needed, which would look something like a serial line, but
self clocked). Notice that a counter is nothing more than an
unary-to-binary conveter. ORing together the edges (XORing?) of two data
streams and clocking a counter forms an adder, or using an up/down counter,
data streams to count-up and count-down forms a subtractor. By clocking in
one number and adding it to itself (the addition could be done in binary
just for expediency...) with each clock of a second stream, a rate
multiplier is formed. If two data streams start simultaneously, it is clear
to see which number is larger: the lesser string stops first. If they don't
start simultaneously, you can count the number of cycles before the next
start and adjust for it, which just goes back to the subtractor, which is
fundamentally what a comparison is, after all. Representations of real
numbers can be produced with arbitrary timings, though moving to the analog
domain, uncertainty becomes the limit to accuracy.
Alternately, as HardySpicer observed, voltage could be used. The physical
phenomenon of voltage can even be seen as unary, which is kind of fun.
Noise of course puts a limit on accuracy. Interfacing to regular digital
circuitry is similar, using an ADC/DAC instead of a counter. There is one
advantage to analog: exponents are easy to compute, thanks to exponential
function blocks being all around us: the silicon junction.
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
"junee" <azeez541@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:25a82af6-9be8-4126-939c-4c1b67e661a6@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
So just use it for smaller numbers, NBD. Represent larger numbers with
different forms, like digits or powers -- that's how bigger numbers always
end up represented anyway (in order of scale: digits, matissa with exponent,
exponents of exponents, raising operator). That's just implementation, and
as long as you've cooked up a Turing-complete computer, it doesn't really
matter in the end.
I think the biggest impracticality that people think is, well how the hell
do you represent 1000? With a thousand wires? That's absurd of course, and
besides, it demands that there be a zero (7 = ...00000001111111), and that
isn't necessary. (There is the necessity of null as the absence of one,
however. In that sense it is still binary.) Indeed, a number can be
represented on just one wire, and electronic rules require that to be
something like voltage or current or time. (Frequency, phase, impedance
(complex!) and more properties can be sent down wires, but I can't imagine
how complex an impedance-signaled computer would be to construct!) Time
would be easy because, digitally, it could be ticked off in discrete
quantities with a clock (a bus could be self-clocked, so only data and
ground wires are needed, which would look something like a serial line, but
self clocked). Notice that a counter is nothing more than an
unary-to-binary conveter. ORing together the edges (XORing?) of two data
streams and clocking a counter forms an adder, or using an up/down counter,
data streams to count-up and count-down forms a subtractor. By clocking in
one number and adding it to itself (the addition could be done in binary
just for expediency...) with each clock of a second stream, a rate
multiplier is formed. If two data streams start simultaneously, it is clear
to see which number is larger: the lesser string stops first. If they don't
start simultaneously, you can count the number of cycles before the next
start and adjust for it, which just goes back to the subtractor, which is
fundamentally what a comparison is, after all. Representations of real
numbers can be produced with arbitrary timings, though moving to the analog
domain, uncertainty becomes the limit to accuracy.
Alternately, as HardySpicer observed, voltage could be used. The physical
phenomenon of voltage can even be seen as unary, which is kind of fun.
Noise of course puts a limit on accuracy. Interfacing to regular digital
circuitry is similar, using an ADC/DAC instead of a counter. There is one
advantage to analog: exponents are easy to compute, thanks to exponential
function blocks being all around us: the silicon junction.
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
"junee" <azeez541@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:25a82af6-9be8-4126-939c-4c1b67e661a6@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
J
junee
Guest
On Nov 26, 10:00 pm, "Tim Williams" <tmoran...@charter.net> wrote:
oh thanks for the explanation...
J
JosephKK
Guest
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:49:41 -0800 (PST), junee <azeez541@gmail.com>
wrote:
Answer the question (well, now two questions).
Can you say very many doubts?
wrote:
No. It does not make any sense. How long does the compare take?
Answer the question (well, now two questions).
Can you say very many doubts?
J
JosephKK
Guest
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:08:21 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
Is there even a proper definition for that?
J
JosephKK
Guest
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:24:23 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
<shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
properly.
<shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
That is nice, just be sure you initialize your twisted ring counter
properly.
J
JosephKK
Guest
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:13:04 -0600, krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
the internal conflict of VAX versus Alpha.
What distorted timeline did that come from? DEC self destructed from
the internal conflict of VAX versus Alpha.
J
JosephKK
Guest
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:08:21 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
<shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
It was Tim flying miles above and away from junee's general area.
<shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
What was that faint rumble?
It was Tim flying miles above and away from junee's general area.
Guest
On 24 Nov., 19:32, junee <azeez...@gmail.com> wrote:
The multiplicand was accumulated multiplier times.
Numbers got larger and i discovered more effective ways.
As a Kid i invented my multiplier:
The multiplicand was accumulated multiplier times.
Numbers got larger and i discovered more effective ways.
B
Ben Bradley
Guest
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:32:04 -0800 (PST), junee <azeez541@gmail.com>
wrote:
real-life use of this sort of thing is a flash A/D converter (not to
be confused with the unrelated and much more recent FLASH memory),
which uses a large number of comparators (to convert N bits takes 2^N
comparators). The positive comparator inputs all go to the signal
input, and the negative inputs go to successive taps on a resistor
string with a DC voltage across it. As the input voltage increases,
more and more comparators turn on as the voltages goes over that at
its tape in the resistor string.
This gives a number of 1 outputs proportional to the input voltage.
These can then go into a logic block called a "thermometer encoder"
which converts the highest '1' bit into its corresponding binary
value.
wrote:
This isn't quite what you're talking about, but an interesting
real-life use of this sort of thing is a flash A/D converter (not to
be confused with the unrelated and much more recent FLASH memory),
which uses a large number of comparators (to convert N bits takes 2^N
comparators). The positive comparator inputs all go to the signal
input, and the negative inputs go to successive taps on a resistor
string with a DC voltage across it. As the input voltage increases,
more and more comparators turn on as the voltages goes over that at
its tape in the resistor string.
This gives a number of 1 outputs proportional to the input voltage.
These can then go into a logic block called a "thermometer encoder"
which converts the highest '1' bit into its corresponding binary
value.
J
JosephKK
Guest
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:53:17 +1100, Don McKenzie <5V@2.5A> wrote:
one and onto). Not that this guess is any clearer for many people
here.
Bijective? I hope that means both injective and surjective (one toJohn Doe wrote:
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
We stopped using stones to count with a long time ago,
Binary stones.
well, no, Unary stones.
The unary numeral system is the bijective base-1 numeral system.
Don...
one and onto). Not that this guess is any clearer for many people
here.
T
Tim Shoppa
Guest
On Nov 27, 7:20 am, JosephKK <quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
get into a disallowed sequence.
Tim.
The good circuits (e.g. Spehro's or the CD4017) self-correct if they
get into a disallowed sequence.
Tim.
T
Tim Shoppa
Guest
On Nov 27, 7:28 am, JosephKK <quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
DEC user/customer, the problem began when they started trying to
compete with IBM in the mini-mainframe market. DEC did great with
small lab machines up through the 1980's and early 90's, even after
their marketing division completely began ignoring the market in the
late 80's in their push to sell only mainframe-class machines.
Don't get me wrong, VMS's clustering technology was and still is way
cool, and has many uses outside the mainframe-class world.
Tim.
That might be the view of somebody internally, but IMHO as an external
DEC user/customer, the problem began when they started trying to
compete with IBM in the mini-mainframe market. DEC did great with
small lab machines up through the 1980's and early 90's, even after
their marketing division completely began ignoring the market in the
late 80's in their push to sell only mainframe-class machines.
Don't get me wrong, VMS's clustering technology was and still is way
cool, and has many uses outside the mainframe-class world.
Tim.
K
krw
Guest
In article <4ripi4l5fq728f9011i1p8d1r79a549m4h@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...>
nothing but. When in Rome, do as the groundrules writers do.
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...>
Aren't all latches transparent?
Xilinx' rules/technoloy/software hates latches. Other's have
nothing but. When in Rome, do as the groundrules writers do.
K
krw
Guest
In article <cf4ti4le55t9j4cga9bhgbr8kl4kg4iubi@4ax.com>,
quiettechblue@yahoo.com says...>
only possible salvation. One corner, as told by the insiders, was
when the suits demanded they be called "d*i*g*i*t*a*l", rather than
"DEC".
As always, you have your head firmly up your ass.
--
Keith
quiettechblue@yahoo.com says...>
They were on the skids well before Alpha. In fact, Alpha was their
only possible salvation. One corner, as told by the insiders, was
when the suits demanded they be called "d*i*g*i*t*a*l", rather than
"DEC".
As always, you have your head firmly up your ass.
--
Keith
J
Jim Thompson
Guest
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:37:56 -0600, krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food
No. Some are edge-triggered, such as 74HC74.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice
480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat || E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food
K
krw
Guest
In article <d305e11f-2db0-420b-a8a8-
f570e90abc4f@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, info2@rayed.de says...>
sequential logic. ;-)
--
Keith
f570e90abc4f@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, info2@rayed.de says...>
I went through the multiplier => adder tree phase as a kid.
That's when I discovered that counters weren't the only use for
sequential logic. ;-)
--
Keith
K
krw
Guest
In article <k7c8j492pfa8ug98oa2cbrcg228jcgj0ae@4ax.com>, To-Email-
Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com says...>
bible says.
Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com says...>
That's a D-Type master-slave flip-flop, no matter what the mustard
bible says.