Time to Upgrade ?:-}

[Frank Miles]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:09:40 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:02:05 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:28:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:



I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--

No, you should make the jump and adapt (with VMware or some other
method) or dump the really old 16 bit programs. Most 32 bit stuff will
still run. It's time, and it will be the last major change for a very
long time.


--sp

Is there any way to tell what type a specific program is? I haven't
updated my PSpice since 2003 when OrCAD Crapture and Cadence stopped
improving PSpice (simulator) and tried to force everyone onto Crapture
:-(

...Jim Thompson

I don't know of any method that is certain. I'd say its even worse.
One of the 'features' of Windows is that it may work today - but with
a 'security update' it may stop working. With diligence you can
usually back out of a specific update, but that can become problematic
with more and more updates. You may be able to isolate your computer
from the web-slime as one alternative.

We run some legacy Windows apps that require 32-bit Windows though the
machines are 64 bitters. There's one app with a key dialog window that
- if you have to use it - causes its calling window to go blank.
Backing up several steps then forward one or two solves this (for now).

I agree with those who have suggested using virtualization software so
you can run particular software packages in cloistered environments,
though there can be consequences (e.g. with CPU speed, the display in
some circumstances, and possible hardware device interactions).

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:16:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I think it's time I upgraded my 'Spice' machine... my present machine
is as follows... no laughter please... I've successfully done at least
at least 20 chip designs on this machine. What modern equivalent
should I replace it with?

====================================

Computer Profile Summary
Computer Name:Analog3 (in ANALOG)

Profile Date:Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:59:53 AM

Operating System
Windows 2000 Professional Service Pack3 (build 2195)

Processor a Main Circuit Board 2.20 gigahertz AMD Athlon 64

128 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
Bus Clock: 200 megahertz

BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00PG 07/28/2004

Drives Memory Modules c,d
137.44 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
93.05 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-5232K
[CD-ROM drive]

3.5" format removeable media [Floppy
drive]

WDC WD1600JB-00EVA0 [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) SMART Status: Healthy

1024 Megabytes Installed Memory

...Jim Thompson

I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Hillary has the charisma of a steamy warm turd.

Jeb Bush has the charisma of a fresh cow-patty.

A political contest made to stink >:-}

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:28:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--

No, you should make the jump and adapt (with VMware or some other
method) or dump the really old 16 bit programs. Most 32 bit stuff will
still run. It's time, and it will be the last major change for a very
long time.


--sp


--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Microchip link for 2015 Masters in Phoenix: http://tinyurl.com/l7g2k48

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2015 11:28 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:

I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

No. The advice is to be aware that some things may *not* work as
they previously did (esp things that need "drivers" -- like peripherals).

Everyone always claims that the upgrade is uneventful -- yet I always
seem to end up losing *some* capability along the way (but, I tend
to run a very wide variety of software and peripherals -- it's
implied that it's *my* fault that I lost some capability that I *should*?
have lost previously?).

Note that you can choose to run (some) 32b OS's on 64b hardware -- you
just lose the benefits of that 64b hardware.

You can also run 32b software on a "guest" OS (under VMware, etc.).

AND, you can also keep your old machine in a closet for a week or
two until you decide it's safe to discard it! :>

You may be surprised to discover that your "computer experience" isn;t
as remarkably faster, cleaner, more efficient than you would have
*guessed* (hoped) on that newer/faster machine! :< This is called
PROGRESS!

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:02:05 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:28:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:



I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--

No, you should make the jump and adapt (with VMware or some other
method) or dump the really old 16 bit programs. Most 32 bit stuff will
still run. It's time, and it will be the last major change for a very
long time.


--sp

Is there any way to tell what type a specific program is? I haven't
updated my PSpice since 2003 when OrCAD Crapture and Cadence stopped
improving PSpice (simulator) and tried to force everyone onto Crapture
:-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Hillary has the charisma of a steamy warm turd.

Jeb Bush has the charisma of a fresh cow-patty.

A political contest guaranteed to stink >:-}

 

[M Philbrook]

In article <jjm7sa5bl08lcf1u9mqqh7d65t0svf77b1@4ax.com>, To-Email-Use-
The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com says...

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:02:05 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:28:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:



I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--

No, you should make the jump and adapt (with VMware or some other
method) or dump the really old 16 bit programs. Most 32 bit stuff will
still run. It's time, and it will be the last major change for a very
long time.


--sp

Is there any way to tell what type a specific program is? I haven't
updated my PSpice since 2003 when OrCAD Crapture and Cadence stopped
improving PSpice (simulator) and tried to force everyone onto Crapture
:-(

...Jim Thompson

that shuold work just fine, I doubt very much if that has 16 bit code
in it.

There is DosBox however, don't expect to do anything in DosBox that
may involve a direct port read/write device, to work.

There are some printer drivers and serial drivers that do emulate a
direct port read/write, but don't depend on it working because many
devices that did that back then also used software timing loops for
reads/writes and that most likely will fail..

Jamie

 

[Robert Baer]

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 09:01:13 -0400, JW<none@dev.null> Gave us:

Who's talking about RAID? My statement was about SSDs and the (your)
idiocy of using them as archival storage.

There is no idiocy, dingledorf.

I have drives which have set dormant for two years and still fire up
fine and contain all their data. I have several Linux distros installed
across several of them but typically only use one Linux variant, so
those sit dormant until I set up a new family of distros on them to
check out the next thing in Linux.

Your idiocy abounds.

And the musician who wrote that article isn't far behind you.

Check. I have two HDs that have been sitting around for 3-4 years; no
problems.
BUT.
I have two others that have been sitting around for 6 years and
Spinrite had problems with one of them; had to put it into a
refrigerator to recover all but one byte in one sector (of course,it
_was_ 95F).

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 22:50:06 -0400, Martin Riddle
<martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:09:40 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:02:05 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:28:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:



I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--

No, you should make the jump and adapt (with VMware or some other
method) or dump the really old 16 bit programs. Most 32 bit stuff will
still run. It's time, and it will be the last major change for a very
long time.


--sp

Is there any way to tell what type a specific program is? I haven't
updated my PSpice since 2003 when OrCAD Crapture and Cadence stopped
improving PSpice (simulator) and tried to force everyone onto Crapture
:-(

...Jim Thompson

I think if you open the exe up with a hex editor, and look at x0100,
if you see 'PE', then its a portable exe 32bit app.

Also if you change the compatibility settings under Win7, it will only
list Vista and up if it is 64bit, 32bit apps will show XP 98 95 etc.

Cheers

Thanks, Martin!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Martin Riddle]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:09:40 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:02:05 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:28:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:



I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson
--

No, you should make the jump and adapt (with VMware or some other
method) or dump the really old 16 bit programs. Most 32 bit stuff will
still run. It's time, and it will be the last major change for a very
long time.


--sp

Is there any way to tell what type a specific program is? I haven't
updated my PSpice since 2003 when OrCAD Crapture and Cadence stopped
improving PSpice (simulator) and tried to force everyone onto Crapture
:-(

...Jim Thompson

I think if you open the exe up with a hex editor, and look at x0100,
if you see 'PE', then its a portable exe 32bit app.

Also if you change the compatibility settings under Win7, it will only
list Vista and up if it is 64bit, 32bit apps will show XP 98 95 etc.

Cheers

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 1:03:02 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:16:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I think it's time I upgraded my 'Spice' machine...

My new Dell PC runs Spice about 5x faster than my old HP.

HP: Dual core 1.8 GHz Xeon, 2G ram, Win XP, 2 threads in LT Spice

Dell: Quadcore 2.8GHz Xeon, 8G ram, 64-bit Win7, 4 threads

Just for curiosity, are these using ECC RAM? The iterative nature of
SPICE operation means that a memory error can be very troublesome,
and 8G of ECC RAM only adds a few dozen dollars to the cost (if
the motherboard supports it).

 

On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 12:08:27 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 4, 2015 at 1:03:02 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:16:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I think it's time I upgraded my 'Spice' machine...

My new Dell PC runs Spice about 5x faster than my old HP.

HP: Dual core 1.8 GHz Xeon, 2G ram, Win XP, 2 threads in LT Spice

Dell: Quadcore 2.8GHz Xeon, 8G ram, 64-bit Win7, 4 threads

Just for curiosity, are these using ECC RAM? The iterative nature of
SPICE operation means that a memory error can be very troublesome,
and 8G of ECC RAM only adds a few dozen dollars to the cost (if
the motherboard supports it).

With highly iterative programs and megabytes of cache, what does the
main memory ECC have to do ? After initial loading into cache,
everything would run from the cache.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 06/08/2015 19:28, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:16:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I think it's time I upgraded my 'Spice' machine... my present machine
is as follows... no laughter please... I've successfully done at least
at least 20 chip designs on this machine. What modern equivalent
should I replace it with?

====================================

Computer Profile Summary
Computer Name:Analog3 (in ANALOG)

Profile Date:Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:59:53 AM

Operating System
Windows 2000 Professional Service Pack3 (build 2195)

[snip antidiluvian PC spec]

1024 Megabytes Installed Memory

...Jim Thompson

I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson

No. Just buy the Win7 pro version of the OS so that you will have an XP
fallback license to run in a VM for any tetchy ancient 32 bit apps. You
could do it manually with one of several other VM products but I am
guessing you don't get on with software so the MS out of the box
solution is probably your path of least resistance.

Expect some problems with very old installers on 64bit OS but most
things will run in a 32bit VM unless they are very badly behaved.

Many 32 bit programs will run OK on the 64bit OS although their
installers which use archaic 16bit components may not!

The huge advantage of 64 bit memory space being >4GB is worth it!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Les Cargill]

Martin Brown wrote:

On 06/08/2015 19:28, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:16:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I think it's time I upgraded my 'Spice' machine... my present machine
is as follows... no laughter please... I've successfully done at least
at least 20 chip designs on this machine. What modern equivalent
should I replace it with?

====================================

Computer Profile Summary
Computer Name:Analog3 (in ANALOG)

Profile Date:Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:59:53 AM

Operating System
Windows 2000 Professional Service Pack3 (build 2195)


[snip antidiluvian PC spec]

1024 Megabytes Installed Memory

...Jim Thompson

I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson

No. Just buy the Win7 pro version of the OS so that you will have an XP
fallback license to run in a VM for any tetchy ancient 32 bit apps. You
could do it manually with one of several other VM products but I am
guessing you don't get on with software so the MS out of the box
solution is probably your path of least resistance.

If you have 32 bit apps to worry about, how come you don't have media
for it? I made an image of my old XP machine and can run it as a VM at
will. I even tested the OEM install; it works and was activated
with Microsoft .

Expect some problems with very old installers on 64bit OS but most
things will run in a 32bit VM unless they are very badly behaved.

Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

Many 32 bit programs will run OK on the 64bit OS although their
installers which use archaic 16bit components may not!

The huge advantage of 64 bit memory space being >4GB is worth it!

--
Les Cargill

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:19:24 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com>
Gave us:

>Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

Not without signed drivers.

 

On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 4:18:34 PM UTC-7, Les Cargill wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/08/2015 19:28, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2015 09:16:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

I think it's time I upgraded my 'Spice' machine... my present machine
is as follows... no laughter please... I've successfully done at least
at least 20 chip designs on this machine. What modern equivalent
should I replace it with?

===================================
Computer Profile Summary
Computer Name:Analog3 (in ANALOG)

Profile Date:Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:59:53 AM

Operating System
Windows 2000 Professional Service Pack3 (build 2195)


[snip antidiluvian PC spec]

1024 Megabytes Installed Memory

...Jim Thompson

I'm getting the general impression that I should avoid 64-bit to make
sure that my legacy programs will still work. Is that correct?

...Jim Thompson

No. Just buy the Win7 pro version of the OS so that you will have an XP
fallback license to run in a VM for any tetchy ancient 32 bit apps. You
could do it manually with one of several other VM products but I am
guessing you don't get on with software so the MS out of the box
solution is probably your path of least resistance.


If you have 32 bit apps to worry about, how come you don't have media
for it? I made an image of my old XP machine and can run it as a VM at
will. I even tested the OEM install; it works and was activated
with Microsoft .

Expect some problems with very old installers on 64bit OS but most
things will run in a 32bit VM unless they are very badly behaved.


Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

I was told that our customer's Sybase/SQL server app won't run on 64 bit window. So, we are stuck with 32 bit XP VM on 32 bit Linux PM in 64 bit machine. 64 bit PM also cause problem with 32 bit XP DHCP.

The 32 bit PM use around 16G RAM using PXE.

From the other thread:

Although they complaints about running $100 electricity with each server, it's unlikely that they will allow us to move it off the building, let alone another city or state (as suggested for cheaper electricity)

The problem is that these dual Xeon servers don't go into standby. They are running at full power at nights and weekends doing nothing. We have already removed half of the CPU, RAM and Engines (Fans). The Fans sound like jet engines before the modifications. We removed half of them and added resistors to the rest. Current electricity bill is around $60.

From: Dual Xeon Quad Core 32G ECC Hex SAS drives Quad Fans
To: Single Xeon Quad Core 16G ECC Dual SAS drives Dual Fans

 

On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:19:24 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com
Gave us:

Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

Not without signed drivers.

Visualization frees us from the Microsoft shackle. We don't deal with window drivers any more. Yes, the customer is still running pure window stuff, but the hardware layers are all open source Linux. This allows them to run legacy software from latest hardware without the Microsoft tax.

 

On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 11:58:39 AM UTC-7, edward....@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, August 10, 2015 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:19:24 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com
Gave us:

Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

Not without signed drivers.

Visualization frees us from the Microsoft shackle. We don't deal with window drivers any more. Yes, the customer is still running pure window stuff, but the hardware layers are all open source Linux. This allows them to run legacy software from latest hardware without the Microsoft tax.

Sorry, Virtualization.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 19:37:38 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
<DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:19:24 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com
Gave us:

Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

Not without signed drivers.

I just transitioned from XP to W7pro 64-bit. Everything works, and the
annoying UI interface changes have been mostly patched up. [1]

Old 16-bit apps won't run. Old 32-bit stuff works fine. And Google
Earth works again. Could have been a lot worse.

[1] how can I get rid of the "system view" junk on the left side of
Explorer panes?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 1:12:22 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:01:26 -0700 (PDT), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com Gave
us:

Sorry, Virtualization.

I do not need a primer on Linux.

Not you, but others do. Keeping it all to yourself won't help other people. The customers were skeptical at first on anything non-Microsoft, but once they see the flexible of the setup, there is no going back.

 

[John Fields]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:32:24 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 19:37:38 -0400, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:19:24 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com
Gave us:

Nearly everything runs on Win7 64 bit IME.

Not without signed drivers.

I just transitioned from XP to W7pro 64-bit. Everything works, and the
annoying UI interface changes have been mostly patched up. [1]

Old 16-bit apps won't run. Old 32-bit stuff works fine. And Google
Earth works again. Could have been a lot worse.

[1] how can I get rid of the "system view" junk on the left side of
Explorer panes?

---
Use Google Chrome instead.

John Fields