Super duper hype fast FET driver?

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:57:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

If you find a useful complement to the 2N7002 please let me know. Thanks!


Oh I will. But don't hold your breath :-(

It's easy if you're not looking for sub-ns edges. We use

FDV302 SOT23 logic-level drive

BSS83 SOT23 gp gumdrop

NDT2955 SOT223 for more power

These all run around 25 cents each, as opposed to a 2N7002 at 3 cents.

The n-ch FDV301, complement to the 302, is only 10 cents. Holes must
cost more than electrons.

I'll test them for switching speed, eventually.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:31:33 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

On Aug 22, 1:55 am, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:39:06 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman



bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:13 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT),BillSloman

bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Aug 21, 9:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Aug 21, 12:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 3:34 AM, Joerg wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On 20/08/2011 2:46 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

143 lines of pompous bilge, none on the subject of fet drivers.

John Larkin loves posting about fet drivers - he can make implausible
claims about how fast and cheap his are, and pose as the expert
electronic engineer that he wants to be accepted as.

You think I faked the waveforms? Or the company? Or the awards?

I'm not arguing that you aren't an expert electronic engineer, merely
commenting on your persistent need to be *seen* as an expert
electronic engineer, designing "insanely good" circuits.

Did I say "insanely good" ?

The point is that we're talking about fet drivers, and you are
arguing.

John

 

[Joerg]

langwadt@fonz.dk wrote:

On 22 Aug., 21:58, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
langw...@fonz.dk wrote:
On 22 Aug., 20:07, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 08/22/2011 11:08 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.
Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?
What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.
Far from it. Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity
Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!
And its not limited to NL and Belgium:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HOUSE+OF+HORROR%3B+100+set+to+sue+over+...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53545205/Torture-Assassinations-Vaccine-Tri...
Right now its dinner time over here but I suddenly lost my appetite!
I'd certainly have had to be asleep to miss it, especially since it came
out in 2002 in the US. Nor is it limited to the Church--schoolteachers,
for instance, have a far worse record, at least over here.
As a Dutchman, if you really want something to turn your stomach, try
investigating the origins of all those trafficked slave women in the red
light district of Amsterdam. IIRC about 4 out of 5 were trafficked from
Russia and eastern Europe, and they suffer rape and worse, continually,
until they're too sick or too worn out to be worth anything any more.
Well, if you want to see unhappy women you should go to the red-light
district. However, your information is a bit outdated. Many laws and
regulations have been put in effect to minimize the possibility of
human trafficking and enslavement. It is very difficult to get a
permit to open a sex-club (aka massage salon). Even the well known
Yab-Yum has been closed down by the local authorities because there
where rumours the owners had ties with the criminal circuit.
Outdated? From what I have heard they have discovered a new source of
"revenue" and are now taxing the redlight districts:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9KMSBS81&show_article=1
it's a job/business, why shouldn't they pay tax like everyone else?
So we look the other way when the question regarding the residency
permit comes up?

of course not, why should it be any different than if they were
working
cleaning hotelrooms, picking strawberries or something else? if they
work
they should pay tax and have the permit to live and work in that
country

I have heard they are simply issued some sort of registration pass.

at least it is legal and regulated, so there's hope those who work
there
do it of their own free will
just like drugs prostitution won't go aways just because you ban it,
it
just means criminals will make money providing it, with no regulation
what so ever
Oh yeah, if we give up fighting it we just make it legal. Sorry, but you
will not convince me of that. I have lived in the Netherlands for about
6 years and seen the sad aftermath of that. Including some funerals.

do you think a ban would fix that?

Yes. I have lived in countries with bans and without. With bans there
were less people who fried their brains via drugs and less durg-related
funerals. I prefer that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped. I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book. 2n4209, maybe?
* DROOL *

Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?

Fairchild refers to MMBT4209 in their cross-reference .PDF, if that's
any kind of clue.

But that one is unobtanium :-(

pant, pant, drool

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.
Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.
I measured some GHz rf transistors for a pulse application a couple
decades ago. They're VERY slow if you let them saturate--don't let
them!--but scream if you don't.
The old-fashioned brute-force way was a long-tailed NPN with a vicious
L-R pull-up (or current source) collector load.
When you break the 1nsec barrier all those measures are off-limits.
Everything must be shorter than 1/10", impedance-controlled, and zero
nanohenries. All it takes is a wee bouncy-bounce into saturation and
game's over.

Oh this was well under 1nS--that was the whole idea. The application
needed a <500pS pulse. When signal paths are short, ordinary SMD
parts are surprisingly close to ideal.

How did you keep the PNP out of saturation? Or did you still have some
of those rare doped ones?

I should've mentioned these particulars were PNP rf transistors, too,
in addition to measuring NPNs.

I had a 12Ghz sampling digital storage 'scope for recording waveforms,
all waveforms being recorded manually with my 10 digits . (I later
made an interface to drive the 'scope's X and digitize the Y output at
the computer.)(None of that works any more, no thanks to Bill.)

It might be surprisingly easy to get that going again, depending on the
ADC sampling rate needed it could be as simple as one of the cheap uC
eval kits. Those comes with USB nowadays.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Aug 20, 10:17 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

You seem to be rather desparate to get yet another AGW debate going,
aren't you? Forget it, since climategate nobody is interested much anymore.

Global warming? You hadn't heard the news? They finally figured that
out...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scientists-trace-heat-wave-to-massive-star-at-cent,21088/

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Joerg]

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped. I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book. 2n4209, maybe?
* DROOL *

Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?

pant, pant, drool

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.

Oh, here's what they're calling it these days:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT3640.pdf

Don't believe the timing specs, those are absurd. You have to drive
the ever-lovin'-snot out of it, but I've gotten its MMBT2369 brother
to switch an order of magnitude faster than those specs.

Thanks. Although storage and other times look really ghastly. I'll have
to try it but I don't quite see how to get that down to a nanosecond or
less.

The 2369 held true to it's data. When driving the living daylights out
of it it'll switch much faster but there was always that small dreaded
storage time of 10nsec or so.

It's still better to not saturate them. Even a simple b-c schottky
makes a world of difference. I think I drove my test samples with
74ACxx logic, series resistor, || a few pF, Vdd=+5v.

74AC is too slow for my case. How did you keep it out of saturation? The
old Schottky Baker clamp usually doesn't work on those. A two-diode
Baker makes it all sluggish, too much total inductance in the drive.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:57:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
If you find a useful complement to the 2N7002 please let me know. Thanks!

Oh I will. But don't hold your breath :-(

It's easy if you're not looking for sub-ns edges. We use

FDV302 SOT23 logic-level drive

BSS83 SOT23 gp gumdrop

NDT2955 SOT223 for more power

These all run around 25 cents each, as opposed to a 2N7002 at 3 cents.

The n-ch FDV301, complement to the 302, is only 10 cents. Holes must
cost more than electrons.

I'll test them for switching speed, eventually.

Careful, the BSS83P (the P-channel version) has and end-of-life notice
on Mouser. They have about 17,000 left, maybe time for hoarding those?

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=mzcOS1kGbgdPabzc9Nlz4g%3d%3d&cm_mmc=findchips-_-na-_-na-_-na

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Joerg]

langwadt@fonz.dk wrote:

On 22 Aug., 22:02, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

Joerg wrote:
Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
Joerg wrote:
[...abortion talks...]
IMHO they condoned murder, plain and simple. "Oh, you
in there, you may have a heartbeat but you are too small so we have
deemed you unworthy of being called a human being". It's sickening.
A person does not have a right for a body of another person. Mother
provides her body as a favor.
The mother made the choice of conceiving and with that come certain
obligations.
No. That was just carelessness.
How does that justify killing the unborn?

One is to protect the unborn. Or do you think it would also
be perfectly ok for a pregnant woman to drink lots of alcohol and smoke?
It's not OK for anyone to enforce his moral on anybody else. Especially
if this moral is "because my invisible friend said so". BTW, how about
you pay your money to that woman for not doing the abortion, and then
you raising her kid?
She certainly does not deserve to be paid for that. What moral would
that instill?

As for adoption of unwanted babies, we have tried exactly that. Were
deemed "too old" :-( ... There are tons and tons of people who would do
that right now. But lots of roadblocks are put up.


it does seem odd that for adoption you basically have to be mr and
mrs
perfect parent, but for artificial insemination and such there's no
questions
asked

but I guess it does give come some confidence to those who put a baby
up for adoption

That I understand though. And except for being well over 30 we were Mr
and Mrs Perfect. Financially secure, home owners, no court convictions,
even clean driving records. But, too old.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath..

There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped. I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book. 2n4209, maybe?

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.

Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.

I measured some GHz rf transistors for a pulse application a couple
decades ago. They're VERY slow if you let them saturate--don't let
them!--but scream if you don't.

The old-fashioned brute-force way was a long-tailed NPN with a vicious
L-R pull-up (or current source) collector load.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

 

On Aug 21, 6:02 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:21:02 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:26:08 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:54:50 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.
Have you tried any pfets?

I did try the BSS84 a few years ago and the results were not enthusing.
My mental model of a mosfet is an infinitely fast piece of silicon
with some capacitance and wire bonds. So the limit on fast switching
is mostly how hard you can drive the gate. Most fets can switch way
faster than the datasheets suggest if you slam them hard enough.
Unfortunately, my 600 ps mystery driver is only good for 6.5 volts
maybe, which that will drive a 2N7002 to an amp or so, fast, but pfets
usually need more drive to turn on hard. But I bet there's one out
there somewhere.

A little DC pre-bias, just below threshold, can buy another volt or
two of enhancement.

I haven't played much with pfets as really fast switches. Right, a
complement to the 2N7002, push-pull against a 7002, with the same
12-cent gate drivers, would be interesting, and might solve your
problem. Just ignore the shoot-through maybe.

I'll put that on my slow-day experiment list. All I need now is a slow
day.

Why doesn't somebody make p-channel gaasfets? The world wonders.

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
My experience using bjt's as this sort of fast switch has been
disappointing. I even tried some 45 GHz SiGe parts, and they switched
slow. Mosfets are much better, phemts are radically better.

RF transistors are also a problem if they can't get to an amp or more..
Usually you'll need that to swish charges around in a capacitive load..
LDMOS can pulse nicely but the price tag is usually prohibitive. NPX
isn't very useful there either because they won't release SPICE model..
But PolyFet in Camarillo does.

Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.
Yeah. I'd experiment with finding a 2N7002 complement. Now you've got
me interested.

I have the gear (pulsers, drivers, sampling scope) to experiment, if
you come up with some candidate parts.

This one could be a contender but it's Infineon and seems close to
unobtanium, in which case it would not do too much good:

http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/BSA223SP_Rev1.3.pdf?folderId=db3a304412b...

That looks really nice. Low capacitances, dynamite transfer curve,
nice pulsed current. Let's try some.

Tough to get though. Once I tried to cajole Infineon into samples of
another FET, explicitly telling them that I don't want them for free,
would also pay S&H and all that. They didn't afford me as much as a
courtesy call back. Ditched them.

This looks similar:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/FD/FDV304P.html

The Fairchild gumdrop parts are mostly excellent.

This looks promising, too:

http://www.vishay.com/docs/71411/tp0610k.pdf

I had looked at those a long time ago. The turn-off times are sluggish
yet they are driving them with gusto, for example Rgen 10V/10ohms for
the Vishay. They are smacking a whopping amp into the gate. 10pF and
150ohms load doesn't explain 35nsec turn-off and I bet their marketing
guys would razz them for being too conservative.

But one never knows with FETs.

Looking at the 2N7002 data sheets, one would never expect the sorts of
speeds I'm seeing. All you can do is get some parts and try them.

The ones that switch fast seem to have low Cg, modest Rds-on, and peak
drain current ratings under an amp (which doesn't stop me from going
above an amp.)

I recall Win Hill getting kilovolt edges in a couple of ns from fets
that, from the data sheets, shouldn't do that.

Remember the patents? Massive over-voltage drive to overcome L(g-s),
then back-off quickly to save the gate from destruction.

If you had a fast drive waveform you could just bootstrap a top-side N-
fet.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[langwadt@fonz.dk]

On 22 Aug., 21:58, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

langw...@fonz.dk wrote:
On 22 Aug., 20:07, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 08/22/2011 11:08 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net>  wrote:
On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.
Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?
What you think is Christian is predominantly the interpretation and
ideology
of your chosen cultural group, with some ideas drawn from another stone-age
group; neither of which is informed by rational inquiry or material
realities.
Far from it.  Properly, the Church is organized so that no one is
without supervision, precisely because all of us, ministers and laity
Keep on dreaming. Over here in NL and in Belgium there is a big
scandal going on concerning pedophiles in the church. There are dozens
of victims!
And its not limited to NL and Belgium:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HOUSE+OF+HORROR%3B+100+set+to+sue+over+...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53545205/Torture-Assassinations-Vaccine-Tri...
Right now its dinner time over here but I suddenly lost my appetite!
I'd certainly have had to be asleep to miss it, especially since it came
out in 2002 in the US.  Nor is it limited to the Church--schoolteachers,
for instance, have a far worse record, at least over here.
As a Dutchman, if you really want something to turn your stomach, try
investigating the origins of all those trafficked slave women in the red
light district of Amsterdam.  IIRC about 4 out of 5 were trafficked from
Russia and eastern Europe, and they suffer rape and worse, continually,
until they're too sick or too worn out to be worth anything any more..
Well, if you want to see unhappy women you should go to the red-light
district. However, your information is a bit outdated. Many laws and
regulations have been put in effect to minimize the possibility of
human trafficking and enslavement. It is very difficult to get a
permit to open a sex-club (aka massage salon). Even the well known
Yab-Yum has been closed down by the local authorities because there
where rumours the owners had ties with the criminal circuit.
Outdated? From what I have heard they have discovered a new source of
"revenue" and are now taxing the redlight districts:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9KMSBS81&show_article=1

it's a job/business, why shouldn't they pay tax like everyone else?

So we look the other way when the question regarding the residency
permit comes up?

of course not, why should it be any different than if they were
working
cleaning hotelrooms, picking strawberries or something else? if they
work
they should pay tax and have the permit to live and work in that
country

at least it is legal and regulated, so there's hope those who work
there
do it of their own free will

just like drugs prostitution won't go aways just because you ban it,
it
just means criminals will make money providing it, with no regulation
what so ever

Oh yeah, if we give up fighting it we just make it legal. Sorry, but you
will not convince me of that. I have lived in the Netherlands for about
6 years and seen the sad aftermath of that. Including some funerals.

do you think a ban would fix that?

-Lasse

 

On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.

There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped.  I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book.  2n4209, maybe?

* DROOL *

Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?

Fairchild refers to MMBT4209 in their cross-reference .PDF, if that's
any kind of clue.

pant, pant, drool

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.

Some day I'll have to see how the BFT92 and the BFG31 behave. But they
are intended as amplifiers so they won't are about saturation effects.
Trick to keep it out of saturation get old quickly when every pF and
every thenth of an inch count.

I measured some GHz rf transistors for a pulse application a couple
decades ago.  They're VERY slow if you let them saturate--don't let
them!--but scream if you don't.

The old-fashioned brute-force way was a long-tailed NPN with a vicious
L-R pull-up (or current source) collector load.

When you break the 1nsec barrier all those measures are off-limits.
Everything must be shorter than 1/10", impedance-controlled, and zero
nanohenries. All it takes is a wee bouncy-bounce into saturation and
game's over.

Oh this was well under 1nS--that was the whole idea. The application
needed a <500pS pulse. When signal paths are short, ordinary SMD
parts are surprisingly close to ideal.

I should've mentioned these particulars were PNP rf transistors, too,
in addition to measuring NPNs.

I had a 12Ghz sampling digital storage 'scope for recording waveforms,
all waveforms being recorded manually with my 10 digits . (I later
made an interface to drive the 'scope's X and digitize the Y output at
the computer.)(None of that works any more, no thanks to Bill.)

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

 

On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.

There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped.  I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book.  2n4209, maybe?

* DROOL *

Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?

pant, pant, drool

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.

Oh, here's what they're calling it these days:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT3640.pdf

Don't believe the timing specs, those are absurd. You have to drive
the ever-lovin'-snot out of it, but I've gotten its MMBT2369 brother
to switch an order of magnitude faster than those specs.

It's still better to not saturate them. Even a simple b-c schottky
makes a world of difference. I think I drove my test samples with
74ACxx logic, series resistor, || a few pF, Vdd=+5v.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[langwadt@fonz.dk]

On 22 Aug., 21:46, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:

Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 08/22/2011 11:08 AM, Nico Coesel wrote:
Phil Hobbs<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net>  wrote:

On 08/22/2011 01:03 AM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 08/22/11 06:45, Joerg wrote:
I won't judge anyone who does that, that's not up to me. Personally I
would not do it because it is squarely against biblical teaching, and I
try to live by that.
Would that be the biblical teaching in favor of genocide, or witch-burning?

I'd certainly have had to be asleep to miss it, especially since it came
out in 2002 in the US.  Nor is it limited to the Church--schoolteachers,
for instance, have a far worse record, at least over here.

As a Dutchman, if you really want something to turn your stomach, try
investigating the origins of all those trafficked slave women in the red
light district of Amsterdam.  IIRC about 4 out of 5 were trafficked from
Russia and eastern Europe, and they suffer rape and worse, continually,
until they're too sick or too worn out to be worth anything any more.

Well, if you want to see unhappy women you should go to the red-light
district. However, your information is a bit outdated. Many laws and
regulations have been put in effect to minimize the possibility of
human trafficking and enslavement. It is very difficult to get a
permit to open a sex-club (aka massage salon). Even the well known
Yab-Yum has been closed down by the local authorities because there
where rumours the owners had ties with the criminal circuit.

Outdated? From what I have heard they have discovered a new source of
"revenue" and are now taxing the redlight districts:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9KMSBS81&show_article=1

Yup. Its a legal profession and people make money so they have to pay
tax and charge VAT. OTOH they can deduct expenses like condoms and
breast implants

someone here tried to deduct breast implants but it was denied, tax
didn't
see breast implants as a necessity to do the job

and while prostitution is legal here and they have to pay tax, it is
not
recognized as a profession so they cannot join a union, receive
benefits
or be eligible for employment insurance


-Lasse

 

[langwadt@fonz.dk]

On 22 Aug., 22:02, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

Joerg wrote:

[...abortion talks...]

IMHO they condoned murder, plain and simple. "Oh, you
in there, you may have a heartbeat but you are too small so we have
deemed you unworthy of being called a human being". It's sickening.

A person does not have a right for a body of another person. Mother
provides her body as a favor.

The mother made the choice of conceiving and with that come certain
obligations.

No. That was just carelessness.

How does that justify killing the unborn?

 One is to protect the unborn. Or do you think it would also
be perfectly ok for a pregnant woman to drink lots of alcohol and smoke?

It's not OK for anyone to enforce his moral on anybody else. Especially
if this moral is "because my invisible friend said so". BTW, how about
you pay your money to that woman for not doing the abortion, and then
you raising her kid?

She certainly does not deserve to be paid for that. What moral would
that instill?

As for adoption of unwanted babies, we have tried exactly that. Were
deemed "too old" :-( ... There are tons and tons of people who would do
that right now. But lots of roadblocks are put up.

it does seem odd that for adoption you basically have to be mr and
mrs
perfect parent, but for artificial insemination and such there's no
questions
asked

but I guess it does give come some confidence to those who put a baby
up for adoption

-Lasse

 

[Joerg]

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Aug 22, 4:20 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped. I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book. 2n4209, maybe?
* DROOL *
Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?
pant, pant, drool
They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.
Oh, here's what they're calling it these days:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT3640.pdf
Don't believe the timing specs, those are absurd. You have to drive
the ever-lovin'-snot out of it, but I've gotten its MMBT2369 brother
to switch an order of magnitude faster than those specs.
Thanks. Although storage and other times look really ghastly. I'll have
to try it but I don't quite see how to get that down to a nanosecond or
less.

The 2369 held true to it's data. When driving the living daylights out
of it it'll switch much faster but there was always that small dreaded
storage time of 10nsec or so.

I don't think you'll get it under 1nS--I chimed in here where you were
asking for a gold-doped PNP in general. I didn't me to imply it's
going to meet your "sub-nS" in both directions requirement-its
capacitances are too high. I don't remember getting it that fast
either.

Yeah, I'll have to sledge-hammer a capacitance around anyhow. Requires
at least an amp to do that.

It's still better to not saturate them. Even a simple b-c schottky
makes a world of difference. I think I drove my test samples with
74ACxx logic, series resistor, || a few pF, Vdd=+5v.
74AC is too slow for my case.

Sub-nS edges, measured. That's too slow?

I meant loaded down with the gate capacitance of a FET and such. That's
when AC runs out of steam.

How did you keep it out of saturation?

The fastest way is to use an emitter current sink that doesn't allow
the collector to swing the load far enough to saturate the BJT.

Slightly slower is a good schottky, c-b. I think I used microwave
diodes. Another incremental improvement: the drive waveform had a big
initial current pulse, then starved the BJT d.c. so it'd turn off
faster.

I'll have to look into the emitter sink. The current spike is something
I did a lot but sometimes when I overdid it ... *PHUT* ... gone.

The
old Schottky Baker clamp usually doesn't work on those. A two-diode
Baker makes it all sluggish, too much total inductance in the drive.

Change diodes! Or bypass them with good caps. A schottky c-b and a
slow trr diode in series could be interesting too, using the diode's
Qrr to yank the transistor off.

Capacitance c-b has to be extraordinarily low--Miller really kills it.

In my case Miller might not be too bad because I only need to swing 12V
or so.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[langwadt@fonz.dk]

On 22 Aug., 23:01, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:57:24 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:14:47 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

[snip]
Now if someone had the opposite sex of the 2N7002 or a PNP with 15V+ and
no "saturation hold" that would be great. The BSS84 and it's siblings
ain't that hot.

If you find a useful complement to the 2N7002 please let me know.  Thanks!

Oh I will. But don't hold your breath :-(

It's easy if you're not looking for sub-ns edges. We use

  FDV302  SOT23 logic-level drive

  BSS83   SOT23 gp gumdrop

  NDT2955 SOT223 for more power

These all run around 25 cents each, as opposed to a 2N7002 at 3 cents.

The n-ch FDV301, complement to the 302, is only 10 cents. Holes must
cost more than electrons.

I'll test them for switching speed, eventually.

John

I remember seing tp0601 listed as complement to 2n7002, haven't
checked
the datasheet though

-Lasse

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:20:32 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped. I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book. 2n4209, maybe?
* DROOL *

Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?

pant, pant, drool

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.

Oh, here's what they're calling it these days:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT3640.pdf

Don't believe the timing specs, those are absurd. You have to drive
the ever-lovin'-snot out of it, but I've gotten its MMBT2369 brother
to switch an order of magnitude faster than those specs.


Thanks. Although storage and other times look really ghastly. I'll have
to try it but I don't quite see how to get that down to a nanosecond or
less.

The 2369 held true to it's data. When driving the living daylights out
of it it'll switch much faster but there was always that small dreaded
storage time of 10nsec or so.


It's still better to not saturate them. Even a simple b-c schottky
makes a world of difference. I think I drove my test samples with
74ACxx logic, series resistor, || a few pF, Vdd=+5v.


74AC is too slow for my case. How did you keep it out of saturation? The
old Schottky Baker clamp usually doesn't work on those. A two-diode
Baker makes it all sluggish, too much total inductance in the drive.

A 74ACT octal buffer makes a damned fine high-speed output driver or
fet gate driver. Use 4 or better all 8 sections in parallel.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 22, 4:20 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped. I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book. 2n4209, maybe?
* DROOL *
Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?
pant, pant, drool
They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.
Oh, here's what they're calling it these days:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT3640.pdf
Don't believe the timing specs, those are absurd. You have to drive
the ever-lovin'-snot out of it, but I've gotten its MMBT2369 brother
to switch an order of magnitude faster than those specs.
Thanks. Although storage and other times look really ghastly. I'll have
to try it but I don't quite see how to get that down to a nanosecond or
less.

The 2369 held true to it's data. When driving the living daylights out
of it it'll switch much faster but there was always that small dreaded
storage time of 10nsec or so.

I don't think you'll get it under 1nS--I chimed in here where you were
asking for a gold-doped PNP in general. I didn't me to imply it's
going to meet your "sub-nS" in both directions requirement-its
capacitances are too high. I don't remember getting it that fast
either.


Yeah, I'll have to sledge-hammer a capacitance around anyhow. Requires
at least an amp to do that.


It's still better to not saturate them. Even a simple b-c schottky
makes a world of difference. I think I drove my test samples with
74ACxx logic, series resistor, || a few pF, Vdd=+5v.
74AC is too slow for my case.

Sub-nS edges, measured. That's too slow?


I meant loaded down with the gate capacitance of a FET and such. That's
when AC runs out of steam.


How did you keep it out of saturation?

The fastest way is to use an emitter current sink that doesn't allow
the collector to swing the load far enough to saturate the BJT.

Slightly slower is a good schottky, c-b. I think I used microwave
diodes. Another incremental improvement: the drive waveform had a big
initial current pulse, then starved the BJT d.c. so it'd turn off
faster.


I'll have to look into the emitter sink. The current spike is something
I did a lot but sometimes when I overdid it ... *PHUT* ... gone.


The
old Schottky Baker clamp usually doesn't work on those. A two-diode
Baker makes it all sluggish, too much total inductance in the drive.

Change diodes! Or bypass them with good caps. A schottky c-b and a
slow trr diode in series could be interesting too, using the diode's
Qrr to yank the transistor off.

Capacitance c-b has to be extraordinarily low--Miller really kills it.


In my case Miller might not be too bad because I only need to swing 12V
or so.

I was thinking, some years ago, about stacking cmos gates to get more
voltage swing. Imagine, say, one 74ACT240 type buffer, all 8 sections
in parallel, driving the ground pin of a second one.

John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:47:48 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

On Aug 22, 4:20 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 22, 4:10 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Aug 21, 12:54 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A gold-doped BJT would be nice as well. However, I have not seen any
commercially successful gold or otherwise doped PNP transistors. And I
guess there ain't no market to write home about so I won't hold my breath.
There are several old-line PNP saturated switches that are gold-
doped.  I don't remember the part numbers off hand, but they're in the
old Nat'l Semi transistor book.  2n4209, maybe?
* DROOL *

Anyone aware of one that's still made, and small?

pant, pant, drool

They're pretty fast, ~1 or 2 nS edges IIRC, but not saturating them is
better still.

Oh, here's what they're calling it these days:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT3640.pdf

Don't believe the timing specs, those are absurd.  You have to drive
the ever-lovin'-snot out of it, but I've gotten its MMBT2369 brother
to switch an order of magnitude faster than those specs.

Thanks. Although storage and other times look really ghastly. I'll have
to try it but I don't quite see how to get that down to a nanosecond or
less.

The 2369 held true to it's data. When driving the living daylights out
of it it'll switch much faster but there was always that small dreaded
storage time of 10nsec or so.

I don't think you'll get it under 1nS--I chimed in here where you were
asking for a gold-doped PNP in general. I didn't me to imply it's
going to meet your "sub-nS" in both directions requirement-its
capacitances are too high. I don't remember getting it that fast
either.

It's still better to not saturate them.  Even a simple b-c schottky
makes a world of difference.  I think I drove my test samples with
74ACxx logic, series resistor, || a few pF, Vdd=+5v.

74AC is too slow for my case.

Sub-nS edges, measured. That's too slow?

How did you keep it out of saturation?

The fastest way is to use an emitter current sink that doesn't allow
the collector to swing the load far enough to saturate the BJT.

Slightly slower is a good schottky, c-b. I think I used microwave
diodes. Another incremental improvement: the drive waveform had a big
initial current pulse, then starved the BJT d.c. so it'd turn off
faster.

The
old Schottky Baker clamp usually doesn't work on those. A two-diode
Baker makes it all sluggish, too much total inductance in the drive.

Change diodes! Or bypass them with good caps. A schottky c-b and a
slow trr diode in series could be interesting too, using the diode's
Qrr to yank the transistor off.

Capacitance c-b has to be extraordinarily low--Miller really kills it.

Gold doping kills minority carrier life-time in P-type material (the base of
an NPN) but has very little effect in N-type material, as in PNP's. 2N2369 is
the most famous of gold-doped NPN switching transistors.

...Jim Thompson

[On the Road, in New York]
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
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I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.