Seriously, Tektronix?

On Tue, 06 May 2014 16:57:08 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Neon John wrote:
On Tue, 6 May 2014 12:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:


how about something like this? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope

No knobs == no way!

No way I'm going to try to grope my o-scope while trying to work in an
environment with 240 or 480 line voltage and >1500 volts DC exposed.


Huh? That would be exactly where this kind of no-knobs scope excels.
Connect a netbook, step back behind the blast shield and control the
netbook via a Bluetooth mouse. BTDT.

Or from the next state. ;-)

At least with knobs and buttons, I know where to reach to change
something. ...


And get electrocuted when something comes off or arcs?


... Plus by the time you figure in the cost of a good tablet
with decent screen size, you could have bought a Rigol and had a night
on the town.


If you don't have a portable device you can run this with, yes. But
pretty much all engineers I know have netbooks or at least laptops. Some
have tablets but I do not believe it is smart to base a lab instrument
solely on tablets. IOW, personally I would not want to fund that.

I wouldn't want it to be Android based, either. It shouldn't be
impossible to make it OS agnostic, though. USB is everywhere.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4


Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?

I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Joerg]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4



Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?

Even for engineering use? That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.

I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...

Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.

... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.

Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already. But if there was a decently price USB box I'd buy.
Decently priced meaning $1k or less, not $8k. I did that with a spectrum
analyzer plus RF generator and never looked back. There are some
shortcomings with dynamic range and such but it does stuff that boat
anchors never could.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Frnak McKenney]

On Tue, 6 May 2014 16:23:39 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

Den onsdag den 7. maj 2014 01.04.46 UTC+2 skrev Neon John:
On Tue, 6 May 2014 12:35:32 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen

langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

how about something like this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope

No knobs == no way!

yes knobs are nicer, I think I've seen that for some of the USB scopes
someone made a usb box with knobs to control it

This one, perhaps?

http://hackaday.com/2014/02/04/a-usb-connected-box-o-encoders/

[Colin] loves his PicoScope, a USB based “headless” oscilloscope.
While using it he found himself longing for a classic oscilloscope
interface. Mouse clicks just weren’t a replacement for grabbing a dial
and twisting it. To correct the situation he created his USB-Connected
Box-o-Encoders. The box maps as a USB keyboard, so it will work with
almost any program.

Enjoy...


Frank McKenney (who also prefers knobs)
--
If the modern world will not insist on having some sharp and
definite moral law, capable of resisting the counterattractions of
art and humor, the modern world will simply be given over as a spoil
to anybody who can manage to do a nasty thing in a nice way.
-- G.K. Chesterton / The Boy
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4



Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?


Even for engineering use? That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.


I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...


Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.


... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.


Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already.

Knock a wall out. Park your car around the block. Get a divorce. A sampler/TDR
is worth it.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

 

[Tom Miller]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:fnlkm9dpv4h4b22u21pdui4fomh6eb8jg5@4ax.com...

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be
probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay.
But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was
all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't
see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4



Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?


Even for engineering use? That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.


I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...


Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.


... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.


Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already.

Knock a wall out. Park your car around the block. Get a divorce. A
sampler/TDR
is worth it.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc

Especially one that goes to 50 GHz or so. Though you won't like the cost of
the 50 GHz sampling head.

But the run of the mill SD24 does 17 ps and that's not too shabby. You can
see details on an SMA connector transition easily.

Plus, no one will shove it in their briefcase and walk off with it.

 

[rickman]

On 5/5/2014 8:35 PM, Joerg wrote:

rickman wrote:
On 5/5/2014 6:53 PM, Joerg wrote:
John Larkin wrote:


[...]

A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part would be
the Windows software.


I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.

I understand the issue of there being more expenses than just the fab
costs. The NRE is sizable when you factor in all the costs. But it
seems like it should be possible to produce a decent 500 MHz attached
scope for under $1000 or even $500 once the NRE is covered.

I would be the issue is not what it costs, but what it is "worth". If
Pico can get people to pay $1500+ for a good attached scope, then why
would they charge less? ...


Well, I get a lot of request from clients for scope recommendations and
Pico almost always lost out because of high prices. Most of the time
clients end up buying a box instead of USB because it costs less.


... Once the units are copied and sold from China
thee prices will fall. I have seen any number of Chinese scopes, but
none seem to be much good and of course the software is always
questionable.


I've got a Taiwan-designed scope as my main workhorse and I am happy.

I'm talking about the attached scopes, not bench scopes.

I recall someone saying there was open source software for a scope front
panel. But I have never found it. Anyone know what that would be?


What good would that do it the control registers are all different
because they depend on HW? Front panels are easy.

If you say so. The front panel is one part of a scope that is pretty
universal and so can be standardized. Some UI features would
potentially be absent from any given set of hardware or more likely the
software feature set. Those can be omitted or greyed out of menus.

The exact hardware will differ, but it should be pretty easy to write a
layer equivalent to a BIOS that adapts the various operations of the
scope to the specific hardware involved.

I'm not proposing that this be done, I have read that the software
exists. I'm just asking if anyone knows about it.

--

Rick

 

[Joerg]

Tom Miller wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message news:fnlkm9dpv4h4b22u21pdui4fomh6eb8jg5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg
invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be
probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes
out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on
ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal
was all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really
don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else
they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4




Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?


Even for engineering use? That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.


I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...


Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.


... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.


Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already.

Knock a wall out. Park your car around the block. Get a divorce. A
sampler/TDR
is worth it.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc

Especially one that goes to 50 GHz or so. Though you won't like the cost
of the 50 GHz sampling head.

But the run of the mill SD24 does 17 ps and that's not too shabby. You
can see details on an SMA connector transition easily.

Plus, no one will shove it in their briefcase and walk off with it.

Yeah, I know, and I am really tempted. But I am trying not to grow my
tool collection much anymore, at least not in size. There's really no
reason why something similar to an SD24 can't run on a laptop or PC. It
could nicely slide into my very wide (and largely unoccupied) USB tool
slot on my lab bench.

The other reason is that due to being a consultant I always have several
clients simultaneously. That means lots of stuff clogs up the space,
like right now a cardiology patient monitor. Schlepping that in and out
all the time would eventually result in back pain.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[rickman]

On 5/6/2014 3:42 PM, Joerg wrote:

Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Den tirsdag den 6. maj 2014 18.48.49 UTC+2 skrev Joerg:
John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:


[...]





I'll have to take you to The Monk's Kettle. They usually have at least
one beer in the $75 range.
If you seem hesitant to choose among the 60 or so beers available, a
bartender steps out from behind the bar, joins you, and consults.
It's actually a great place. Good food, too.


Oh yeah, that sure looks good.



http://monkskettle.com/index.php/menus/beer/



A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part would be
the Windows software.
I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.


I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up clients

equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as much

as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all

it took.


how about something like this? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope


You can already buy cheap USB scopes, a client just bought this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Hantek-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B009H4AYII/ref=sr_1_1/177-1868163-9632848?ie=UTF8&qid=1399405124&sr=8-1&keywords=Hantek

Works. They also make higher end versions with higher sample rates,
integrated arb gen, and so on.

I've been looking at Hantek. I just can't find anyone who has used one.
Saying "it works" is not exactly a great endorsement. Have you tried
it yourself? That might mean a bit more when saying, "it works". lol

The one I've been eying is the 3062AL, 60 MHz bandwidth with a logic
analyzer. Not quite the same as a simple scope and I can't tell how
well the software works.

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 5/6/2014 10:48 PM, dakupoto@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, May 5, 2014 10:57:26 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
From the email slush pile this morning:



Tektronix



-----------------------------------------------------



Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.



-----------------------------------------------------



Dear Phil,



As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and

providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP

operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by

upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version

(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.



An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from

security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with

additional measurement capabilities, including:



- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,

Ethernet, I2C, etc.)

- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical

triggering system

- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure

faster pass / fail conclusions



Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's

software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!



I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT

http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html



-------------------



So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,

just because of their crappy choice of OS.



Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy

your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."



My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.

Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a

service call.)



Cheers



Phil Hobbs





--

Dr Philip C D Hobbs

Principal Consultant

ElectroOptical Innovations LLC

Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics



160 North State Road #203

Briarcliff Manor NY 10510



hobbs at electrooptical dot net

http://electrooptical.net

One would have imagined that a company
of Tektronix repute would have used a
simple RTOS on their scopes. Looks like
Tektronix is following in HP's foot
steps.

Tek has been using Windows for a long time. A high end Tek scope I used
once ran Windows NT... or maybe it was 2000 at least.

I think these days Linux would be the way to go, fully open source so
you can fix *any* problem you find... but then you would have to provide
the sources and I'm not too sure of the exact impact on the status of
your proprietary code. The license can be a can of worms if you don't
really want to share your code.

--

Rick

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Tom Miller wrote:

Were they for IE-8?

I saw the same thing.

It didn't say. Each time I was away from the computer, and came back
to find that it had updated and restarted with a message that Windows
had been updated. It informed me that FF had been updated, when I got up
this morning. Now, it's slower than crap.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

 

[Joerg]

rickman wrote:

On 5/6/2014 3:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Den tirsdag den 6. maj 2014 18.48.49 UTC+2 skrev Joerg:
John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
John Larkin wrote:


[...]





I'll have to take you to The Monk's Kettle. They usually have at least
one beer in the $75 range.
If you seem hesitant to choose among the 60 or so beers available, a
bartender steps out from behind the bar, joins you, and consults.
It's actually a great place. Good food, too.


Oh yeah, that sure looks good.



http://monkskettle.com/index.php/menus/beer/



A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.
I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.


I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients

equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much

as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all

it took.


how about something like this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope



You can already buy cheap USB scopes, a client just bought this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Hantek-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B009H4AYII/ref=sr_1_1/177-1868163-9632848?ie=UTF8&qid=1399405124&sr=8-1&keywords=Hantek


Works. They also make higher end versions with higher sample rates,
integrated arb gen, and so on.

I've been looking at Hantek. I just can't find anyone who has used one.
Saying "it works" is not exactly a great endorsement. Have you tried
it yourself? That might mean a bit more when saying, "it works". lol

I have not tried it myself.

A client of mine bought it a week ago because they had no scope at all.
The person that used it there is still studying for his masters and
doesn't have too much industry experience but he was almost immediately
able to measure the stuff I asked him to. Clocks, pulses, trigger on
single events, and so on. It's a pretty simple and low sample rate scope
but from the plots they sent it does the job. For around $80 that's not
bad. On our board most stuff is under 10MHz. Some is in the GHz range
but that will be measured here at my lab.

The one I've been eying is the 3062AL, 60 MHz bandwidth with a logic
analyzer. Not quite the same as a simple scope and I can't tell how
well the software works.

The arb gen is a nice feature in that one. I hope it has an extra coax
output for that in the back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 7 May 2014 12:17:40 -0400, "Tom Miller"
<tmiller11147@verizon.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:fnlkm9dpv4h4b22u21pdui4fomh6eb8jg5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be
probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay.
But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was
all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't
see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4



Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?


Even for engineering use? That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.


I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...


Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.


... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.


Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already.

Knock a wall out. Park your car around the block. Get a divorce. A
sampler/TDR
is worth it.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc

Especially one that goes to 50 GHz or so. Though you won't like the cost of
the 50 GHz sampling head.

But the run of the mill SD24 does 17 ps and that's not too shabby. You can
see details on an SMA connector transition easily.

Yeah, and it's hard to get a really good SMA to PCB transition.

Plus, no one will shove it in their briefcase and walk off with it.

I have an 11802 permanently (or until the next earthquake) on my
workbench. I use the SD24 TDR a lot. I do have an SD32 50 GHz sampling
head, which doesn't do TDR. At some point, the mainframe jitter,
fairly bad on the early 11801-series scopes, makes a fast sampling
head useless.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4



Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?


Even for engineering use?

Yes. We don't do manufacturing (here). Processes are processes.
ISO9K, and all that rot.

That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.

I could probably do that but $1K is on the high side.

I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...


Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.

We've done that, when we bought the equipment that the contractor or
one of their sister companies) built.

... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.


Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already. But if there was a decently price USB box I'd buy.
Decently priced meaning $1k or less, not $8k. I did that with a spectrum
analyzer plus RF generator and never looked back. There are some
shortcomings with dynamic range and such but it does stuff that boat
anchors never could.

 

[Tom Miller]

<krw@attt.bizz> wrote in message
news:urglm9tlrdsq1ijenm4ajvdkqhckirseff@4ax.com...

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]


[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be
probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay.
But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was
all
it took.

There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.


For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't
see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4



Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?


Even for engineering use?

Yes. We don't do manufacturing (here). Processes are processes.
ISO9K, and all that rot.

That would be an indicator of a company with
serious problems. With my clients and former employers that was never an
issue. The only minor (and very occasional) glitch was when a seller
would not accept a P.O. in which case we used a high-limit or no-limit
credit card of one of the bigshots. At my employers I had such a card
myself so it was a non-issue. Not sure if it's still the case but with
an Amex card you could buy a whole aircraft if needed.

I could probably do that but $1K is on the high side.

I want to buy one of those but no one knows how. In fact, it's harder
to buy the $1K TDR than it would be to buy the $100K scope. I can't
justify $100K (to myself) but I can easily justify $1K or even $10K.

Some of my customers have told me to bill it as hours. ...


Sometimes clients would ask me to buy something and just bill it through
as a line item. That gets arund the P.O. problem and delays although
many don't require strict adherence to a P.O. system any longer. I
always found that to be somewhat archaic.

We've done that, when we bought the equipment that the contractor or
one of their sister companies) built.

... What I prefer to
do is just buy the darn thing myself. For $30k or so, I've bought a
million bucks worth of first class test equipment, figuring at list
price. There are not a lot of independents out there with real labs,
and that's worth a lot to my customers.


Lucky you. I simply don't have the space. Else I'd have a Tek sampling
scope already. But if there was a decently price USB box I'd buy.
Decently priced meaning $1k or less, not $8k. I did that with a spectrum
analyzer plus RF generator and never looked back. There are some
shortcomings with dynamic range and such but it does stuff that boat
anchors never could.

I have got them for less than $200 including most for shipping. That is just
the cost of a good lunch with a client. Look for the ones that do not pass
the self test. The main cause is two failed NVRAM batteries and it cost
about $30 from Mouser to replace them. The new RAMs from Mouser will last 20
+ years.

It is one hell of a scope.

Also, look for the SD-14 sampler with two active probes, the SD-26 dual
channel sampler and the great SD-24 with the built in TDR pulse also two
channels.

 

[Joerg]

krw@attt.bizz wrote:

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]

[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all
it took.
There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.

For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4


Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?

Even for engineering use?

Yes. We don't do manufacturing (here). Processes are processes.
ISO9K, and all that rot.

Nah.

http://www.iso9000resources.com/ba/calirbration-maintenence-introduction.cfm

Quote "Many companies don't calibrate rarely used engineering/service
equipment because of the cost. As long as the equipment is not used for
validation and the equipment is controlled, it is OK".

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Mikko OH2HVJ]

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

I've been looking at Hantek. I just can't find anyone who has used
one. Saying "it works" is not exactly a great endorsement. Have you
tried it yourself? That might mean a bit more when saying, "it
works". lol

We bought the 100MHz scope about two years ago and the firmware was crap.
The timebase and verticals could only be changed while auto triggering or
stopped and the measurements showed wrong results. Went back to
Rigols.

I've upgraded the FW to the latest one and used it a few times. Feels
much more responsive, but I haven't yet used it for real work.
If they have fixed the glitches, the scope is good value for money.

The larger, higher resolution display is a definite plus compared to
the basic Rigol.

--
Mikko OH2HVJ

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 05/08/2014 09:38 AM, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote:

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

I've been looking at Hantek. I just can't find anyone who has used
one. Saying "it works" is not exactly a great endorsement. Have you
tried it yourself? That might mean a bit more when saying, "it
works". lol

We bought the 100MHz scope about two years ago and the firmware was crap.
The timebase and verticals could only be changed while auto triggering or
stopped and the measurements showed wrong results. Went back to
Rigols.

I've upgraded the FW to the latest one and used it a few times. Feels
much more responsive, but I haven't yet used it for real work.
If they have fixed the glitches, the scope is good value for money.

The larger, higher resolution display is a definite plus compared to
the basic Rigol.

The Owon display is nice. I got one for my son, who likes it. I
haven't used it for real work, though.


Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:55:37 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:37:02 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 05/06/2014 08:56 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 10:35:39 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:48:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 15:53:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
[...]

[...]


A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part
would be
the Windows software.

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet
because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.
The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

I am not so sure about the market. I've helped a lot of start-up
clients
equip their labs initially. Rarely did they ever truly need even as
much
as a 200MHz BW scope. Most of the time a 50-100MHz budget deal was all
it took.
There is a market. I just haven't had time to work on it.

For TDR (which is fairly easy) there are markets but I really don't see
one for regular sampling scopes like what the Tek 11801 was. Else they
wouldn't pawn them off for around $1k like here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-11801B-Digital-Sampling-Oscilloscope-with-Module-SD-26-/191018227396?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2c7992d6c4


Because not all companies buy on eBay? Because it's just as much work
to buy a $30K scope as it is a $300 scope (well, the only TDR I've
seen recently is more like $100K)? Because the keepers of the capital
equipment inventory lists, instrumentation, and calibration will never
sign off on such things?

Even for engineering use?

Yes. We don't do manufacturing (here). Processes are processes.
ISO9K, and all that rot.


Nah.

http://www.iso9000resources.com/ba/calirbration-maintenence-introduction.cfm

Quote "Many companies don't calibrate rarely used engineering/service
equipment because of the cost. As long as the equipment is not used for
validation and the equipment is controlled, it is OK".

*THEY* don't. So?

 

[josephkk]

On Mon, 05 May 2014 18:07:59 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

I didn't go below 200psec and mainly because the medium to be probed
doesn't support any lower. Haven't tried it out in real life yet because
the boards aren't back but this kind of stuff usually comes out as
simulated, or pretty close.

The thing about doing a TDR is competing with Tek 11801s on ebay. But
there IS a market that I think would work.

That is a specialty turf segment, and may be much easier to penetrate with
a USB dongle at a similar price.

?-)