Seriously, Tektronix?

P

Phil Hobbs

Guest
From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."

My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 10:57:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."

My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

Don't ever put an oscilloscope online!

And don't buy Tek any more.

The 100 MHz Rigols are nice. Boot fast, work great, cheap and light.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 07:57:26 -0700, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

....well stated rant snipped to keep Aioe happy....
So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."

My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

if you're interested in workarounds, did you try their forum?
TekScopes .at. yahoogroups .dot. com

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
TekScopes-digest@yahoogroups.com
TekScopes-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


I agree about using bloated code OS just to get a 'familiar' GUI
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 10:57:26 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."

My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

It's only a security threat if you connect it to Ethernet.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
 
On 05/05/2014 11:25 AM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 07:57:26 -0700, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

....well stated rant snipped to keep Aioe happy....
So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."

My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



if you're interested in workarounds, did you try their forum?
TekScopes .at. yahoogroups .dot. com

Yahoo Groups Links

*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/

*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

*> To change settings via email:
TekScopes-digest@yahoogroups.com
TekScopes-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


I agree about using bloated code OS just to get a 'familiar' GUI
Click to expand...

Thanks. I don't own any Windows scopes, so it's not an issue with me.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 08:25:09 -0700, RobertMacy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2014 07:57:26 -0700, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

....well stated rant snipped to keep Aioe happy....
So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."

My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



if you're interested in workarounds, did you try their forum?
TekScopes .at. yahoogroups .dot. com

Yahoo Groups Links

*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/

*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

*> To change settings via email:
TekScopes-digest@yahoogroups.com
TekScopes-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TekScopes-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


I agree about using bloated code OS just to get a 'familiar' GUI
Click to expand...

My DPO2024 runs Linux inside. There's no obvious gui. The only sign that it runs
a bloated OS is the absurdly slow performance and the annoying bugs.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 08:53:06 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highnotlandthistechnologypart.com> wrote:

...snip....

My DPO2024 runs Linux inside. There's no obvious gui. The only sign that
it runs
a bloated OS is the absurdly slow performance and the annoying bugs.
Click to expand...

Are you SURE that's not Windows in there? ;)
 
Phil Hobbs wrote:
From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."
Click to expand...

Many of them are like that. Always looking for a way to force customers
to abandon the older product. "Oh sorry, out of support, we can't
service this gear anymore".


My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)
Click to expand...

20-30 push-ups 3-4 times a day and 100 miles of serious mountain biking
per week will help with that.

I went in another direction, looking for super-light USB-driven
instruments. For fast samling scopes there isn't much out there,
unfortunately. Don't know why because designing fast sampling gear isn't
really rocket science. Maybe not enough market.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
Oh, but Rigol is not very friendly with modern windows. They must live off
of XP in China.
 
Phil Hobbs wrote:
Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."


Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

First you spread lies:

"I would hate the operating system to be a mushroom cloud."
"We know there are bugs in XP. They are north, west, south and east of the
start button."
"We demand regime change. XP must go."

Customer buys a new scope. "Mission accomplished."

Yes, George W. Bush is now working for Tek.
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 10:23:46 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."


Many of them are like that. Always looking for a way to force customers
to abandon the older product. "Oh sorry, out of support, we can't
service this gear anymore".
Click to expand...

I think that works with corporate buyers -- throw it out to the advantage
of your tax bottom line, then buy new, again to the advantage of your tax
bottom line.

Then collect your bonus while the stockholders wonder why all your
business is going to China.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
 
Den tirsdag den 6. maj 2014 00.12.32 UTC+2 skrev Tom Miller:
"Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote in message

news:lk90pa$uoo$1@dont-email.me...

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message

news:3grfm9165a2ha5letq46fcsq9uusaao0l8@4ax.com...

On Mon, 05 May 2014 12:51:01 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid

wrote:





... where things are farmed out to a contract mfg who uses a

hand-me-down machine from the US and happily runs it flat-out for

another decade or so.



The German CNC drill sales guy I met in China was selling most of his

new production there for all the PCB makers (hundreds of

mega-expensive sets per month). When you're in serious volume

production, the newest machine is often the most productive.



Cars are different.



Cars, scopes and many other things share a similar market trend, with a

strong aftermarket, available replacement parts, tiered maintenance /

calibration / repair services, and vintage restorations.



The market for test equipment of course is much smaller, and generally

slower. A new model of some test equipment might be rolled out every five

years, or more. Which really isn't that different from the automotive

case, but the automotive case also has what we would call major revisions

every year or so. I don't know that vintage / antique / historic test

equipment commands quite as proportional a price as the same automotive

case, but that's also to do with sheer market size (demand artificially

inflating the price of an otherwise objectively low-value item).



A new car might run you $20k, and depreciate at ~$3k/yr. An old car might

cost $2k but require $1-2k/yr in service. A new scope might run you $10k

and depreciate $1.5k/yr, or an old scope might run you $1k and cost you

$100/yr in replacement parts (e.g., a CRT one year, some switches another

year, etc.). In both cases, the new product is likely to remain reliable

(but is equally prone to careless software issues and bloat! Ha!), while

the older product may cost you downtime due to the stochastic repair

schedule (i.e., it breaks, then you order parts and fix it).



Tim



--



Or you buy five or ten of them and when one breaks, your spare parts problem

is solved.


tm
Click to expand...

I guy I went to uni with worked nights printing delivery papers for a newspaper
they had this huge IBM chain printer for it, with some crazy expensive service
for it because if it broke down and wasn't fixed within a few hours, they couldn't bring out the papers

eventually they just bought a couple of standard desktop laser printers when
they all worked it was faster and as long as one worked they could finish
in time, I'm sure what they saved in service could easily pay for new printers when they wore out

-Lasse
 
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Mon, 05 May 2014 10:23:46 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."


Many of them are like that. Always looking for a way to force customers
to abandon the older product. "Oh sorry, out of support, we can't
service this gear anymore".

I think that works with corporate buyers -- throw it out to the advantage
of your tax bottom line, then buy new, again to the advantage of your tax
bottom line.
Click to expand...

Sure, but the little guy is smarter and knows that such a procedure
saves nothing at all. Getting a $3,500 tax savings but having to first
shell out $10,000 costs a net $6,500 no matter how the bigshot
accountants turn it. That is more than the $0 it would have cost to keep
operating the baot anchor. Which is what I do :)

I remember a few business friends who bought new cars every few years.
"But I can write it off!". They were always tight with money because
there just wasn't enough of it. My car is 17 years old and it's fine.


Then collect your bonus while the stockholders wonder why all your
business is going to China.
Click to expand...

.... where things are farmed out to a contract mfg who uses a
hand-me-down machine from the US and happily runs it flat-out for
another decade or so.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 12:51:01 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

... where things are farmed out to a contract mfg who uses a
hand-me-down machine from the US and happily runs it flat-out for
another decade or so.
Click to expand...

The German CNC drill sales guy I met in China was selling most of his
new production there for all the PCB makers (hundreds of
mega-expensive sets per month). When you're in serious volume
production, the newest machine is often the most productive.

Cars are different.


--sp
 
On 5/5/2014 1:23 PM, Joerg wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:
From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."


Many of them are like that. Always looking for a way to force customers
to abandon the older product. "Oh sorry, out of support, we can't
service this gear anymore".


My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)


20-30 push-ups 3-4 times a day and 100 miles of serious mountain biking
per week will help with that.

I went in another direction, looking for super-light USB-driven
instruments. For fast samling scopes there isn't much out there,
unfortunately. Don't know why because designing fast sampling gear isn't
really rocket science. Maybe not enough market.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been looking for a while myself. It seems like there has
been plenty of time for the market to create the product, but I haven't
found one yet.

I think there should be demand, but there does seem to be some barrier.
In general, I think there are cost issues with fast scopes. Maybe
there is a perception that a small, USB connected scope has to be
inexpensive? I'm not sure if this would be on the part of the users or
the makers.

I wonder why even companies like Rigol haven't put some effort into an
attached scope. They could just rip out the display circuits and make
the device fully controllable over USB. Maybe you end up with a *more*
expensive unit?

--

Rick
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 12:03:50 -0700, miso <miso@sushi.com> wrote:

Oh, but Rigol is not very friendly with modern windows. They must live
off
of XP in China.
Click to expand...

I once had trouble selling systems with Windows OS INTO China. It seems
they first wanted only 'dumb' terminals attached to a maindframe, AND they
did not want to be liable for fees. All seeems reasonable to me.
 
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:3grfm9165a2ha5letq46fcsq9uusaao0l8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 05 May 2014 12:51:01 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:


... where things are farmed out to a contract mfg who uses a
hand-me-down machine from the US and happily runs it flat-out for
another decade or so.

The German CNC drill sales guy I met in China was selling most of his
new production there for all the PCB makers (hundreds of
mega-expensive sets per month). When you're in serious volume
production, the newest machine is often the most productive.

Cars are different.
Click to expand...

Cars, scopes and many other things share a similar market trend, with a
strong aftermarket, available replacement parts, tiered maintenance /
calibration / repair services, and vintage restorations.

The market for test equipment of course is much smaller, and generally
slower. A new model of some test equipment might be rolled out every five
years, or more. Which really isn't that different from the automotive
case, but the automotive case also has what we would call major revisions
every year or so. I don't know that vintage / antique / historic test
equipment commands quite as proportional a price as the same automotive
case, but that's also to do with sheer market size (demand artificially
inflating the price of an otherwise objectively low-value item).

A new car might run you $20k, and depreciate at ~$3k/yr. An old car might
cost $2k but require $1-2k/yr in service. A new scope might run you $10k
and depreciate $1.5k/yr, or an old scope might run you $1k and cost you
$100/yr in replacement parts (e.g., a CRT one year, some switches another
year, etc.). In both cases, the new product is likely to remain reliable
(but is equally prone to careless software issues and bloat! Ha!), while
the older product may cost you downtime due to the stochastic repair
schedule (i.e., it breaks, then you order parts and fix it).

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs
Electrical Engineering Consultation
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
 
"Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote in message
news:lk90pa$uoo$1@dont-email.me...
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:3grfm9165a2ha5letq46fcsq9uusaao0l8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 05 May 2014 12:51:01 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:


... where things are farmed out to a contract mfg who uses a
hand-me-down machine from the US and happily runs it flat-out for
another decade or so.

The German CNC drill sales guy I met in China was selling most of his
new production there for all the PCB makers (hundreds of
mega-expensive sets per month). When you're in serious volume
production, the newest machine is often the most productive.

Cars are different.

Cars, scopes and many other things share a similar market trend, with a
strong aftermarket, available replacement parts, tiered maintenance /
calibration / repair services, and vintage restorations.

The market for test equipment of course is much smaller, and generally
slower. A new model of some test equipment might be rolled out every five
years, or more. Which really isn't that different from the automotive
case, but the automotive case also has what we would call major revisions
every year or so. I don't know that vintage / antique / historic test
equipment commands quite as proportional a price as the same automotive
case, but that's also to do with sheer market size (demand artificially
inflating the price of an otherwise objectively low-value item).

A new car might run you $20k, and depreciate at ~$3k/yr. An old car might
cost $2k but require $1-2k/yr in service. A new scope might run you $10k
and depreciate $1.5k/yr, or an old scope might run you $1k and cost you
$100/yr in replacement parts (e.g., a CRT one year, some switches another
year, etc.). In both cases, the new product is likely to remain reliable
(but is equally prone to careless software issues and bloat! Ha!), while
the older product may cost you downtime due to the stochastic repair
schedule (i.e., it breaks, then you order parts and fix it).

Tim

--
Click to expand...

Or you buy five or ten of them and when one breaks, your spare parts problem
is solved.


tm
 
On Mon, 05 May 2014 10:23:46 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
From the email slush pile this morning:

Tektronix

-----------------------------------------------------

Windows XP Support Has Ended. We're Here to Help.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Phil,

As of April 8th, 2014, Microsoft stopped issuing security updates and
providing technical support for systems running its' Windows XP
operating system...including oscilloscopes. Protect your investment by
upgrading your Tektronix oscilloscope to a Windows 7 version
(MSO/DPO5000B, DPO7000C, or DPO/MSO70000C/DX) today.

An upgraded oscilloscope will not only protect your instrument from
security threats and technical issues, it will also provide you with
additional measurement capabilities, including:

- Serial Decoding for over 15 different serial buses (PCI Express,
Ethernet, I2C, etc.)
- The award winning Visual Trigger system, an intuitive graphical
triggering system
- Compliance test packages for a variety of serial standards to ensure
faster pass / fail conclusions

Protect your oscilloscope investment by upgrading your instrument's
software or trading up to an entirely new device. Take action today!

I WANT TO PROTECT MY INVESTMENT
http://info.tek.com/protect-your-scope.html

-------------------

So the way to "protect my scope" is to throw it out and buy a new one,
just because of their crappy choice of OS.

Their marketing droid is obviously an Obamanaut. "We have to destroy
your (scope, insurance, economy, liberty, village) to save it."


Many of them are like that. Always looking for a way to force customers
to abandon the older product. "Oh sorry, out of support, we can't
service this gear anymore".


My protection method is to buy top-of-the-line boat anchors instead.
Cheap, powerful, no Windows, no worries. (Unless I need to go on a
service call.) ;)


20-30 push-ups 3-4 times a day and 100 miles of serious mountain biking
per week will help with that.

I went in another direction, looking for super-light USB-driven
instruments. For fast samling scopes there isn't much out there,
unfortunately. Don't know why because designing fast sampling gear isn't
really rocket science. Maybe not enough market.
Click to expand...

Pico does USB samplers

http://www.picotech.com/picoscope9000.html

but the prices are serious. It's actually not hard to do, and the
parts are cheap.

A 60 ps TDR wouldn't be terribly hard, either. The worst part would be
the Windows software.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
Tim Williams wrote:
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:3grfm9165a2ha5letq46fcsq9uusaao0l8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 05 May 2014 12:51:01 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:

... where things are farmed out to a contract mfg who uses a
hand-me-down machine from the US and happily runs it flat-out for
another decade or so.
The German CNC drill sales guy I met in China was selling most of his
new production there for all the PCB makers (hundreds of
mega-expensive sets per month). When you're in serious volume
production, the newest machine is often the most productive.

Cars are different.

Cars, scopes and many other things share a similar market trend, with a
strong aftermarket, available replacement parts, tiered maintenance /
calibration / repair services, and vintage restorations.

The market for test equipment of course is much smaller, and generally
slower. A new model of some test equipment might be rolled out every five
years, or more. Which really isn't that different from the automotive
case, but the automotive case also has what we would call major revisions
every year or so. I don't know that vintage / antique / historic test
equipment commands quite as proportional a price as the same automotive
case, but that's also to do with sheer market size (demand artificially
inflating the price of an otherwise objectively low-value item).

A new car might run you $20k, and depreciate at ~$3k/yr. An old car might
cost $2k but require $1-2k/yr in service. ...
Click to expand...

On the contrary. If you buy smart and with the least amount of
electronics in there you will only have the regular PM stuff. The only
big ticket item I had was changing the two timing belts after about 16
years. Had them swap the water pump as a precaution (was still ok but I
wasn't sure if it would hold another 15-20 years). Routine stuff, cost
$1k. Other than that and except for the occasional new battery and
stuff, nada. Not even one lone light bulb has dared to fail in the whole
17 years.

In contrast to that neighbors with newer and much fancier cars had to
shell out lots of money. Some sort of controller module quit, a yellow
or red light illuminated on the dashboard, things like that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 
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