selling power to the grid

[tuppy]

Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

 

[Phil Allison]

"tuppy"

Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

** If YOU can make 240 VAC electricity, at home, for under 12 cents per
kWh - the world wants to hear from YOU.

Seriously - in some countries, legislation forces energy suppliers to pay
around double the retail cost of AC power to folk who have solar panels
installed and feed back their excess capacity.

Helps with peak demand on hot days I suppose.

Very politically correct move.




....... Phil

 

[kreed]

On Aug 9, 4:27 pm, tuppy <geo...@joho.com> wrote:

Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

I think you would make a lot more by being careful with your usage,
dont leave unused lights on,
use lower wattages if practical, use the line not the clothes dryer
etc

Another problem is that if you sell power, you probably have to pay
tax on that income,
whereas what you use (for domestic purposes) wouldn't be a tax
deduction against it.

How do you plan to generate the electricity ?

 

[Mauried]

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 00:20:45 -0700, kreed <kenreed1999@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Aug 9, 4:27 pm, tuppy <geo...@joho.com> wrote:
Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?


I think you would make a lot more by being careful with your usage,
dont leave unused lights on,
use lower wattages if practical, use the line not the clothes dryer
etc

Another problem is that if you sell power, you probably have to pay
tax on that income,
whereas what you use (for domestic purposes) wouldn't be a tax
deduction against it.

How do you plan to generate the electricity ?

Most of the Power Companies in Australia that do give you credit for
buying back your power pay you about 1/2 for it than what they charge
you for it.
In Germany things are a lot better, you get the equiv of 75C per Kwh
for what you sell back.

As for making an income , good luck.

 

[Mr.T]

"Mauried" <mauried@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46bac918.33102828@news.tpg.com.au...

In Germany things are a lot better, you get the equiv of 75C per Kwh
for what you sell back.

Thank god we don't pay that much for electricity here just yet!

MrT.

 

[Poxy]

tuppy wrote:

Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

I've claims of people with solar installations selling excess power back
into the grid, but this tends to be in articles or promotional material, and
seems more of an implication that it *could* be done rather than actually
happening. I guess the inverter would have to be synchronised to the mains
frequency, but to actually get power to flow into the grid it'd have to
output a voltage marginally higher than the grid voltage?

I also wonder what happens if the power authority needs to isolate a
circuit, or a power line goes down, or there's a blackout? Would the lack of
grid voltage cause the inverter to shut down or would there be voltages in
the grid where linesman wouldn't be expecting to find it?

 

[gcd]

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:46bacf8c$0$11059$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Mauried" <mauried@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:46bac918.33102828@news.tpg.com.au...
In Germany things are a lot better, you get the equiv of 75C per Kwh
for what you sell back.

Thank god we don't pay that much for electricity here just yet!

MrT.



No probs,

you can when we go nuclear with no subsidies!

Greg

 

[David L. Jones]

On Aug 9, 4:27 pm, tuppy <geo...@joho.com> wrote:

Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

Forget it, unless you do it for the love of it. You will never get
your money back, well, not for say 20 years.

Michael mobs does it, I've been to his place and seen his
installation, and he mentioned that he actually got a cash return. No
idea who he is (or was) with though.
http://www.sustainablehouse.com.au/

Plenty of others feed back to the grid as well, but now that you can
simply buy 100% accredited solar or wind power (at a premium), it's
far far cheaper to simply do that than have your own local power
generation system. If you are in a windy rural area then perhaps you
could feed back wind power, the installation costs would be less than
solar, as wind generators are getting cheaper and popular. But forget
trying to make any sort of income from it.

Dave.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

David L. Jones wrote:

On Aug 9, 4:27 pm, tuppy <geo...@joho.com> wrote:
Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

Forget it, unless you do it for the love of it. You will never get
your money back, well, not for say 20 years.

Michael mobs does it, I've been to his place and seen his
installation, and he mentioned that he actually got a cash return. No
idea who he is (or was) with though.
http://www.sustainablehouse.com.au/

Plenty of others feed back to the grid as well, but now that you can
simply buy 100% accredited solar or wind power (at a premium), it's
far far cheaper to simply do that than have your own local power
generation system. If you are in a windy rural area then perhaps you
could feed back wind power, the installation costs would be less than
solar, as wind generators are getting cheaper and popular. But forget
trying to make any sort of income from it.

**Well, yes, but you are neglecting several facts and probabilities:

* Solar cells are falling (slowly) in price and increasing (slowly) in
efficiency.
* Electricity is VERY cheap in Australia, by world standards. The price
will go up, as the cost of generating one's own power falls.
* The upcoming carbon trading will push up the cost of coal generated power.

Of course, all these things will reduce the cost of large scale
renewable energy too.

I've done the sums for my place. For around $18k, I can generate around
33% of all my power needs. If I fill the pool in, that balance becomes
around 50%. That, allowing for the $8k grant form the gummint, means a
20 year payback. If electricity was the same price as it is in (say)
California, then payback would be less than 15 years. In Germany,
payback would occur in less than 10 years. In Italy, around 7 years. In
Denmark, around 5 years. The one, certain thing is that electricity
prices will rise in the near future. If Australia is dumb enough to go
the nuclear route, then prices will rise even more dramatically.

If I could expect a 5 year payback, I would jump in right now. And, I
suspect, so would a lot of other people.

Further: A friend's girlfriend works for BP Solar. They can't keep up
with the present demand for cells.

Trevor Wilson

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Mauried]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:28:01 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

David L. Jones wrote:
On Aug 9, 4:27 pm, tuppy <geo...@joho.com> wrote:
Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

Forget it, unless you do it for the love of it. You will never get
your money back, well, not for say 20 years.

Michael mobs does it, I've been to his place and seen his
installation, and he mentioned that he actually got a cash return. No
idea who he is (or was) with though.
http://www.sustainablehouse.com.au/

Plenty of others feed back to the grid as well, but now that you can
simply buy 100% accredited solar or wind power (at a premium), it's
far far cheaper to simply do that than have your own local power
generation system. If you are in a windy rural area then perhaps you
could feed back wind power, the installation costs would be less than
solar, as wind generators are getting cheaper and popular. But forget
trying to make any sort of income from it.

**Well, yes, but you are neglecting several facts and probabilities:

* Solar cells are falling (slowly) in price and increasing (slowly) in
efficiency.
* Electricity is VERY cheap in Australia, by world standards. The price
will go up, as the cost of generating one's own power falls.
* The upcoming carbon trading will push up the cost of coal generated power.

Of course, all these things will reduce the cost of large scale
renewable energy too.

I've done the sums for my place. For around $18k, I can generate around
33% of all my power needs. If I fill the pool in, that balance becomes
around 50%. That, allowing for the $8k grant form the gummint, means a
20 year payback. If electricity was the same price as it is in (say)
California, then payback would be less than 15 years. In Germany,
payback would occur in less than 10 years. In Italy, around 7 years. In
Denmark, around 5 years. The one, certain thing is that electricity
prices will rise in the near future. If Australia is dumb enough to go
the nuclear route, then prices will rise even more dramatically.

If I could expect a 5 year payback, I would jump in right now. And, I
suspect, so would a lot of other people.

Further: A friend's girlfriend works for BP Solar. They can't keep up
with the present demand for cells.

Trevor Wilson

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

This is a good utility for working out the payback.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators/PVWATTS/
Use version 1 and use your closest locality.

 

[Moonshadow]

Mauried wrote:

Most of the Power Companies in Australia that do give you credit for
buying back your power pay you about 1/2 for it than what they charge
you for it.
In Germany things are a lot better, you get the equiv of 75C per Kwh
for what you sell back.

As for making an income , good luck.


My enquiries several years back revealed that my supplier would credit

me at about 20% the rate they charged me.

Fairly recent legislation in Victoria requires that power companies
credit you per KW.hr at least what they charge you per KW.hr.

A wise move by Bracksy, which went almost unreported.

 

[tuppy]

I am hoping the labor party gets in, then increases the solar rebate
as promised.
then Ill buy 20K worth of panels with inbuilt mini inverters on the
back of them.
ie no batteries at all. Then get a rebate back of $8- $10k.

So I would be looking at getting back $10-$12K generating as much
power as possible and not actually using it myself. This
installation would be on my weekender house which is mostly
unoccupied. Thus I dont want credit, just hard cash to pay off these
panels asap!! Problem is integral only give you credit (yes at 1/2
rate u buy it) but better than nothing. Goal is to get these panels
paid off in record time..

 

[Phil Allison]

"tuppy"

I am hoping the labor party gets in, then increases the solar rebate
as promised.
then Ill buy 20K worth of panels with inbuilt mini inverters on the
back of them.
ie no batteries at all. Then get a rebate back of $8- $10k.

So I would be looking at getting back $10-$12K generating as much
power as possible and not actually using it myself. This
installation would be on my weekender house which is mostly
unoccupied. Thus I dont want credit, just hard cash to pay off these
panels asap!!

** Knew you had some crackpot scheme like this in mind.




....... Phil

 

[Mr.T]

"gcd" <gcd.deletemelbnospam@melbnospam.iimetro.com.au> wrote in message
news:46bae1e9$0$2992$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au.
...

In Germany things are a lot better, you get the equiv of 75C per Kwh
for what you sell back.

Thank god we don't pay that much for electricity here just yet!

No probs,
you can when we go nuclear with no subsidies!

I'm sure of it, that's why I said "just yet"

MrT.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:20:48 -0700, tuppy <george@joho.com> wrote:

I am hoping the labor party gets in, then increases the solar rebate
as promised.
then Ill buy 20K worth of panels with inbuilt mini inverters on the
back of them.
ie no batteries at all. Then get a rebate back of $8- $10k.

So I would be looking at getting back $10-$12K generating as much
power as possible and not actually using it myself. This
installation would be on my weekender house which is mostly
unoccupied. Thus I dont want credit, just hard cash to pay off
these
panels asap!! Problem is integral only give you credit (yes at 1/2
rate u buy it) but better than nothing. Goal is to get these panels
paid off in record time..

I doubt that even in Victoria they will pay you a higher rate for
power you put into the grid compared to what they charge you for power
you take from the grid. Power utilities (Australian) don't usually
work that way.

I had a look over the Origin Energy website to see if I could find
anything regarding solar energy buy back rates but this information is
not obvious anywhere. In contrast, Synergy in WA, are completely open
about it
http://www.synergyenergy.com.au/Residential_Segment/Green_Energy/Sale_%26_Purchase_Rates.html

 

[Terryc]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

* Solar cells are falling (slowly) in price and increasing (slowly) in
efficiency.

........

Further: A friend's girlfriend works for BP Solar. They can't keep up
with the present demand for cells.

I think those two statements are contradictory. My 2c is that until the
world gets another large scale solar panel fabrication plant, then solar
panels are going to stay expensive. Prices jumped a few years back due
to the serious under supply of panels.

 

[David L. Jones]

On Aug 10, 7:28 am, Trevor Wilson <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au>
wrote:

David L. Jones wrote:
On Aug 9, 4:27 pm, tuppy <geo...@joho.com> wrote:
Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

Forget it, unless you do it for the love of it. You will never get
your money back, well, not for say 20 years.

Michael mobs does it, I've been to his place and seen his
installation, and he mentioned that he actually got a cash return. No
idea who he is (or was) with though.
http://www.sustainablehouse.com.au/

Plenty of others feed back to the grid as well, but now that you can
simply buy 100% accredited solar or wind power (at a premium), it's
far far cheaper to simply do that than have your own local power
generation system. If you are in a windy rural area then perhaps you
could feed back wind power, the installation costs would be less than
solar, as wind generators are getting cheaper and popular. But forget
trying to make any sort of income from it.

**Well, yes, but you are neglecting several facts and probabilities:

* Solar cells are falling (slowly) in price and increasing (slowly) in
efficiency.
* Electricity is VERY cheap in Australia, by world standards. The price
will go up, as the cost of generating one's own power falls.
* The upcoming carbon trading will push up the cost of coal generated power.

Of course, all these things will reduce the cost of large scale
renewable energy too.

I've done the sums for my place. For around $18k, I can generate around
33% of all my power needs. If I fill the pool in, that balance becomes
around 50%. That, allowing for the $8k grant form the gummint, means a
20 year payback. If electricity was the same price as it is in (say)
California, then payback would be less than 15 years. In Germany,
payback would occur in less than 10 years. In Italy, around 7 years. In
Denmark, around 5 years. The one, certain thing is that electricity
prices will rise in the near future. If Australia is dumb enough to go
the nuclear route, then prices will rise even more dramatically.

If I could expect a 5 year payback, I would jump in right now. And, I
suspect, so would a lot of other people.

Yep, I'd love to put solar cells on my roof and have a grid inverter,
but because I can now simply buy 100% solar or wind power from the
grid (albeit at a 50% increase in price over coal), it's a no-brainer
at present. Things will eventually change though.

Further: A friend's girlfriend works for BP Solar. They can't keep up
with the present demand for cells.

They haven't been able to for many years now.
And they like the keep the prices artificially high as well, but that
will eventually change as well.

Dave.

 

[NL]

ok so anybody have any idea on how much would it cost to power a home 24/7
via solar?

i would imagine i would need the usual stuff like 12v lighting, 12v
appliances, inverters for 240 volt.

i am looking at doing a green project as i just got a block of land out at
mudgee and i stuck one of those shed type homes on it.

"tuppy" <george@joho.com> wrote in message
news:1186640866.293607.286700@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

Is anybody actually selling power back to the grid? I know there are
green power credit schemes but this appears to only wind back the
meter or give you credit. I am trying to figure out which company
actually gives you hard cash for electricity sold to the grid. Im
wondering If I can make even a small income from it?

 

[Trevor Wilson]

NL wrote:

ok so anybody have any idea on how much would it cost to power a home
24/7 via solar?

**How long is a piece of string? There are too many variables to take
into account.

i would imagine i would need the usual stuff like 12v lighting, 12v
appliances, inverters for 240 volt.

i am looking at doing a green project as i just got a block of land out
at mudgee and i stuck one of those shed type homes on it.

**Budget for at least $20k, less the gummint rebate ($8k), if you are
VERY frugal with electricity and you don't use any of the following:

* Electric heating and cooling.
* Electric ovens (microwaves are OK).
* A pool filter.

If you want all that stuff too, then you'd better bump your budget up to
at least $40k. Plus batteries. Add another (say) $5k for them.

Trevor Wilson

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[David L. Jones]

On Aug 10, 5:09 pm, "NL" <nlcab...@netspace.net.au> wrote:

ok so anybody have any idea on how much would it cost to power a home 24/7
via solar?

Do you have any idea of your likely consumption?
There can be a 10 to 1 difference in power consumption between homes
depending on a whole host of factors.

i would imagine i would need the usual stuff like 12v lighting, 12v
appliances, inverters for 240 volt.

You have to know *exactly* what stuff you need a before you can price
a suitable solar system.

i am looking at doing a green project as i just got a block of land out at
mudgee and i stuck one of those shed type homes on it.

Do you have access to the grid?
Did you consider any of this before you bought the block of land and
plonked your shed down?
Is it windy out at Mudgee?

Dave.