resistor symbol dilema

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:23:44 +0000, the renowned Guy Macon
<_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

John Woodgate wrote:

we call them 'Leyden jars' in English, and in particular the
Royal Navy used the jar as a defined unit of capacitance
up to the mid-1930s.

Hmmm. I wonder how much of a HV charge a CRT could hold.
Enought to give one a jolt and make them drop the tube?

Definitely.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:12:38 GMT, Tim Hubberstey <bogus@bogusname.com>
wrote:

Of course, then we'd have to do something about Henries too. Maybe
define 1 uH as a 'Hank' with symbol 'h' . . .

Sorry, the "Hank" is already in use:

http://www.beercollections.com/Breweries/Washington/Henry_Weinhards_Brewing.htm#null


John

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:56:00 +0000, Guy Macon
<_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

Frank Bemelman wrote:

"Spehro Pefhany" schreef...

Then you have to decide whether to use the 4K7 or 4.7K style, and
whether to write 0.01uF or 10nF. ;-)

Or use what you use verbally. Do you say 'one-hundredth microfarad', or
'ten nanofarad'. It seems that 'one-hundredth microfarad' is verbally
close to 'one-hundred microfarad'

Everyone I know says some variation of "point one microfarad."
or "point one oof (uF)."

We call them "mikes". And "puffs."

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:27:43 -0800, <normanstrong@comcast.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHISlandPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote in
message news:v9en21dtqmm19ommccna2s18e07k9ifoo5@4ax.com...
On 6 Mar 2005 18:06:07 -0800, larwe@larwe.com wrote:


seem as a mere tomhato/tomato issue, I've had some
comments before where people in the US were
___
frowning about -|___|- while UK has a -/\/\/-

I'm an Australian (block style symbol working on a US campus of a
multinational company, and we use the wiggly heater style symbol in all
schematics generated domestically.

Some European companies that we acquired still use the box symbol
several years after acquisition. They don't want the effort of updating
their CAD libraries, since every single schematic would be affected.

Just don't mix and match on the same schematic, and anybody who
complains can safely be ignored. It would only be an issue if you used
both styles in one dwg, since there is a semantic difference between
the two symbols.


I wonder when the Brits and Australians cut over to boxes. I have a
British book, Millimicrosecond Pulse Techniques (1959) and the
Australian Radiotron Designer's Handbook (1940) and both are
squiggles.

Millimicrosecond Pulse Techniques is American (Univ of Kansas, 1959). It
uses squiggles, but its schematics are not what I'd call excellent.

My copies show the authors as both British, and the first publisher as
Pergamon Press, London, and the printer as Pitman Press in GB. It was
later reprinted by McGraw-Hill in the US. The one here was printed in
1955 and has the sales receipt inside, sold to a Mr Jim Hart of
Amperex Electronics Co, Hicksville LI, in October of 1957, price
$7.50. It's a great, classic book. The stuff on tapered transmission
lines is still useful.

John

 

[JeffM]

'one-hundredth microfarad', or 'ten nanofarad'
Frank Bemelman

'Oh point oh-one microfarad'. 'Ten nF' is much easier.
John Woodgate

you don't really need the leading "oh" when you're speaking the value
--it purpose is to keep the flyspeck "." decimal point from being
lost.
The word "point" is big enough to defend itself.
Spehro Pefhany

Aught one mike.

 

[Paul Burke]

John Woodgate wrote:

... and for persistency, [P], of course. (;-)

What does a persistor do? And what are the units? (I can imagine Tom, as
in Tom and Jerry- 100Tm = 1 hecatom).

Paul Burke

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote
(in <39553tF5sipckU1@individual.net&gt about 'resistor symbol dilema', on
Tue, 8 Mar 2005:

John Woodgate wrote:

... and for persistency, [P], of course. (;-)

What does a persistor do? And what are the units? (I can imagine Tom, as
in Tom and Jerry- 100Tm = 1 hecatom).

'Tm' means 'terametre'. A better candidate is the Wyle, being 1

millionth of the persistence of Wyle E Coyote.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote
(in <39553tF5sipckU1@individual.net&gt about 'resistor symbol dilema', on
Tue, 8 Mar 2005:
John Woodgate wrote:

... and for persistency, [P], of course. (;-)

What does a persistor do? And what are the units? (I can imagine Tom, as
in Tom and Jerry- 100Tm = 1 hecatom).

'Tm' means 'terametre'. A better candidate is the Wyle, being 1
millionth of the persistence of Wyle E Coyote.
--
Regards, John Woodgate

Here's a new standard for you! It has to be true, because I saw it on
TV!

Its "Bike week" at Daytona Beach right now. Its an annual event with
tens of thousands motorcycles on the roads all over Central Florida.
One of the talking heads on a local TV station did a report about noise
levels. She held up a sound level meter and called it a Decibel meter,
then she carefully explained how it measured noise in deci-meters. How
do these idiots get on TV?



--
Cyber stalking is a crime!

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote (in <422DA48D.5F09D262@earthlink.net>
) about 'resistor symbol dilema', on Tue, 8 Mar 2005:

Here's a new standard for you! It has to be true, because I saw it on
TV!

Its "Bike week" at Daytona Beach right now. Its an annual event with
tens of thousands motorcycles on the roads all over Central Florida. One
of the talking heads on a local TV station did a report about noise
levels. She held up a sound level meter and called it a Decibel meter,
then she carefully explained how it measured noise in deci-meters. How
do these idiots get on TV?

I'm sure you won't mind if I share that with my little friends at ISCE.
Do you want a credit?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Michael A. Terrell
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote (in <422DA48D.5F09D262@earthlink.net
) about 'resistor symbol dilema', on Tue, 8 Mar 2005:
Here's a new standard for you! It has to be true, because I saw it on
TV!

Its "Bike week" at Daytona Beach right now. Its an annual event with
tens of thousands motorcycles on the roads all over Central Florida. One
of the talking heads on a local TV station did a report about noise
levels. She held up a sound level meter and called it a Decibel meter,
then she carefully explained how it measured noise in deci-meters. How
do these idiots get on TV?

I'm sure you won't mind if I share that with my little friends at ISCE.

Yes, I hope they get a chuckle or two out of it. Would you like the
E-mail address of the TV station to send them notification they are in
violation of international standards? Maybe they'll take notice that
their stupidity has reached around the world.

Do you want a credit?

I always like a little credit, like everyone else.

--
Regards, John Woodgate

Why not?
--
Cyber stalking is a crime!

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 14:53:48 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:56:00 +0000, Guy Macon
_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:




Frank Bemelman wrote:

"Spehro Pefhany" schreef...

Then you have to decide whether to use the 4K7 or 4.7K style, and
whether to write 0.01uF or 10nF. ;-)

Or use what you use verbally. Do you say 'one-hundredth microfarad', or
'ten nanofarad'. It seems that 'one-hundredth microfarad' is verbally
close to 'one-hundred microfarad'

Everyone I know says some variation of "point one microfarad."
or "point one oof (uF)."


We call them "mikes". And "puffs."

And "puffs" used to be "mickey-mikes".

Cheers!
Rich

 

[justin]

According to IEEE Std. 315, both symbols are OK with both the IEEE and
IEC. Sorry, no decisive answer here.

Well, the good thing is we have standards. As an IEEE member I thought
Standards were supposed to be exclusive.

What was the reason that $M160 NASA Mars probe crashed, again?

j.

 

[Frank Bemelman]

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> schreef in bericht
news:9ah6gnM8yLLCFwdi@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

I read in sci.electronics.design that Frank Bemelman <f.bemelmanq@xs4all
.invalid.nl> wrote (in <422cb87d$0$43127$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl&gt about
'resistor symbol dilema', on Mon, 7 Mar 2005:
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> schreef in bericht
news:n7rn2153rh94stc5tm9aqldn1jmnsj26ab@4ax.com...

Then you have to decide whether to use the 4K7 or 4.7K style, and
whether to write 0.01uF or 10nF. ;-)

Or use what you use verbally. Do you say 'one-hundredth microfarad', or
'ten nanofarad'. It seems that 'one-hundredth microfarad' is verbally
close to 'one-hundred microfarad'


'Oh point oh-one microfarad'. 'Ten nF' is much easier. Especially if
it's actually 15 nF!

Makes sense. I use 'four kay seven' for resistors, and 'two comma two
microfarad', but drop the farad when I get down to 'ten nano' and
'10 pico'. And let's not forget the variations that have 'oops' in
front and the verbal equivalent of bold typeface

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

 

I'm an Australian (block style symbol working on a US campus of a

I wonder when the Brits and Australians cut over to boxes. I have a
British book, Millimicrosecond Pulse Techniques (1959) and the
Australian Radiotron Designer's Handbook (1940) and both are
squiggles.

As I understood it, the original symbol was the zigzag, and it
represented a wirewound resistor or heater. The box was adopted for
clarity (some conventions put the value inside the box). Some people
then took the view that any resistor that's being used as a heater
should use the zigzag, and other resistors the block. I haven't heard
that mentioned recently though. And I KNOW our products that have
heaters in them use the block symbol for the heater

Both methods were "taught" in the 80s in Australia but the zigzag was
discouraged. I think it was the move from pencils to CAD (I had a
Staedtler drawing-board that I really miss; it was fun drawing busses
and components by hand and even more fun using Letraset-style symbols)
that caused the change to solidify.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Spehro,

... As someone else suggested, pick one style and use it
consistently. ...

Yes. And put earplugs in until the complaint noise has subsided to a
acceptable level ;-) I mean, there are more important things to ponder
in life than whether a resistor is squiggly or boxy.

They are different, but equally beautiful.

Then you have to decide whether to use the 4K7 or 4.7K style, and
whether to write 0.01uF or 10nF. ;-)

How 'bout 0.01mmF? That would be the really classy way.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Terry Given]

Guy Macon wrote:

John Woodgate wrote:


we call them 'Leyden jars' in English, and in particular the
Royal Navy used the jar as a defined unit of capacitance
up to the mid-1930s.


Hmmm. I wonder how much of a HV charge a CRT could hold.
Enought to give one a jolt and make them drop the tube?

Certainly. Back when I was a video game technician (1987 or so) I worked
for a company that made videogames. One summer I was moving a 26" tube,
sans shirt (it was hot). I foolishly picked up the tube with the EHT
socket close to my belly, then went walkabout. About 5m from my
destination I got the inevitable belt - the tube had been fired up
several days earlier, and never discharged. Aware of the cost, I
struggled not to drop it, and got a second belt in the process. I made
it to the bench, then proceeded to curse mightily. I made a point
thereafter of pointing the EHT hole away from me when carrying tubes.....

I also got a belt from one on my test rig, and promptly snapped the neck
off the tube in response. ouch.

Cheers
Terry

 

[Terry Given]

John Larkin wrote:
[snip]>>>I wonder when the Brits and Australians cut over to boxes. I have a

British book, Millimicrosecond Pulse Techniques (1959) and the
Australian Radiotron Designer's Handbook (1940) and both are
squiggles.

Millimicrosecond Pulse Techniques is American (Univ of Kansas, 1959). It
uses squiggles, but its schematics are not what I'd call excellent.



My copies show the authors as both British, and the first publisher as
Pergamon Press, London, and the printer as Pitman Press in GB. It was
later reprinted by McGraw-Hill in the US. The one here was printed in
1955 and has the sales receipt inside, sold to a Mr Jim Hart of
Amperex Electronics Co, Hicksville LI, in October of 1957, price
$7.50. It's a great, classic book. The stuff on tapered transmission
lines is still useful.

John

Hi John,

what are your favourite/most useful electronics books?

I just got a copy of Hendrik Bode's "Network Analysis & Feedback
Amplifier design". very informative.

Cheers
Terry

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org>
wrote (in <3R8Yd.8659$1S4.920828@news.xtra.co.nz&gt about 'resistor
symbol dilema', on Fri, 11 Mar 2005:

what are your favourite/most useful electronics books?

Radio/Radiotron Designers' Handbook (F Langford-Smith) is one of the
more useful things to come out of Australia (;-)

Almost every 'Wireless World'/'Electronics World' from 1952 to date.

I used to have 'Second Thoughts on Radio Theory' by 'Cathode Ray' (M G
Scroggie) but someone 'liberated' it.

'The Art of Electronics', with the Student Manual.

I just got a copy of Hendrik Bode's "Network Analysis & Feedback
Amplifier design". very informative.

Yes; just because a book is old, it isn't necessarily useless.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Tim Hubberstey
<bogus@bogusname.com> wrote (in <at3Xd.19621$fc4.6234@edtnps89&gt about
'resistor symbol dilema', on Mon, 7 Mar 2005:

Since the base unit for marking caps is the pF (a cap marked 104 is
100000 pF or 100 nF), I think we should create a new unit called the
'Fad' (shortened Farad) with the Latin 'f' (ƒ) designated as the unit
symbol. Then we can have mƒ, ƒ, kƒ, Mƒ, and Gƒ, and be consistent with
resistors. (sorry if the unicode doesn't show up properly)

You are about the 10^6th person to suggest that, with varying names for
the unit. There was a huge discussion about this in the 'trade press'
around the time when the metric prefix 'pico' was introduced.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk