Pulling large wire in conduit

[DaveC]

Thus spake Jamie:

you shouldn't need lube and if it's that tight then
your not using large enough EMT.

For four #1 conductors the NEC requires 1-1/4 inch, minimum. I'm using 1-1/2
inch. Whether or not it's "large enough" is open do debate, I guess. I, too,
kind of blanched when I looked at the bundle of wires and the conduit, but it
seems to have worked.
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DaveC
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[dkuhajda@locl.net]

Will all four be carrying current? Do not forget that the neutral is
considered a current carrying conductor, but a safety ground is not.
How much current on the circuit?

If all 4 are current carrying conductors, then the size of the conduit
needs to be overrated and/or the current in the circuit will have to be
significantly limited. If all four are intended as current carrying
conductors, then it will need to be derated by 80%. Since normal
derating of the conductors maximum current is 80% with only 3 current
carrying conductors, the actual current allowed will be around 65% of
the maximum for AWG #1 if all 4 are carrying current.

Just considering the size of conduit required for 4 AWG #1 wires is not
necessarily enough. The installation location, ambient temperature,
current on the circuit, insulation of the wire all play a factor into
figuring the proper installation parameters.

Even though I have all the information required to figure out what is
to local code, I typically have a licensed electrician double check
everything for safety.

 

[Bud--]

DaveC wrote:

I ended up using 2 90 degree sweeps and two inspection boxes (90's as well).
Used fish tape to pull nylon rope which was used to pull the wires.

Man, is it hard work. It's not a big job, but no come-along, just two
inexperienced guys huffing and puffing.

An inspection box is an asymmetric item. Pulling the wires into the box in
the longitudinal direction was relatively easy; feeding them back into the
"exit" that is 90 degrees to the body was problematic (especially the last 18
inches, or so). How does one do that last bit of wire so that you don't end
up with a twisted knot of wires that won't fit in the box?

It is easiest to start at a elbow fitting in the middle and feed wires

to one end. In any case, for the otherside of the elbow bunch the wires
so they remain in the same orientation to each other from the elbow to
the loose wire ends and feed the wire into the elbow in that
orientation. That prevents 'knots'.

Assuming an LB fitting where one entry to the elbow is out the back,
to pull the wires tight into the fitting, pull the wires out through the
back as the last step. As the wires get almost tight, pick the wire that
will wind up furthest back in the fitting and bend it at 90 degrees at
the location it will have when the wires are tight. Pull just that wire
out through the back until it is tight. Repeat for the remainng wire
that will be furthest back in the fitting.... If the back-entry of an
elbow connects to the back-entry of another elbow it is a real PITA.

If you had used all sweeps as John Ray suggested think of the fun you
would have avoided. Electricians have nifty motor drive wire pullers to
make pulls like this easy.

bud--

 

[DaveC]

Thus spake Bud--:

If you had used all sweeps as John Ray suggested think of the fun you
would have avoided.

Tried sweeps originally. Couldn't pull the wire. Changed to L's, and each
pull was do-able. Didn't know about keeping the wires parallel (no
cross-overs) which would have made the original attempt OK, probably.

Next time (!) I'm better armed with know-how.

Electricians have nifty motor drive wire pullers to make pulls like this easy.

Rentable? Will consider that next time...

Thanks,
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[Bud--]

DaveC wrote:

Thus spake Bud--:


If you had used all sweeps as John Ray suggested think of the fun you
would have avoided.


Tried sweeps originally. Couldn't pull the wire. Changed to L's, and each
pull was do-able. Didn't know about keeping the wires parallel (no
cross-overs) which would have made the original attempt OK, probably.

I you mean cross-overs in the pipe, they can make a pull extremely hard.

In some cases could also probably damage the insulation.

Next time (!) I'm better armed with know-how.

We get too soon old and too late smart.

bud--

 

[DaveC]

Thus spake Bud--:

DaveC wrote:

Tried sweeps originally. Couldn't pull the wire. Changed to L's, and each
pull was do-able. Didn't know about keeping the wires parallel (no
cross-overs) which would have made the original attempt OK, probably.

I you mean cross-overs in the pipe, they can make a pull extremely hard.
In some cases could also probably damage the insulation.

I can picture how to set up the wires (separate loops on the floor) for
feeding in the initial pull. This will avoid cross-overs. But if you need to
do more than one pull (via inspection L's), how do you avoid a similar tangle
in the successive pulls? Is this automatically avoided by making your first
pull organized?

We get too soon old and too late smart.

"Awww, youth is wasted on the wrong folk!" (the neighbor in "It's A Wonderful
Life")
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[Ryan Evans]

Easy pull, even with no lubricant(if the conduit is new)
2 guys, one feeding & one pulling, no machine required.

From someone who actually does it.

RE

 

[Bud--]

DaveC wrote:

I can picture how to set up the wires (separate loops on the floor) for
feeding in the initial pull. This will avoid cross-overs. But if you need to
do more than one pull (via inspection L's), how do you avoid a similar tangle
in the successive pulls? Is this automatically avoided by making your first
pull organized?


If you are using cut lengths of wire on the initial pull, as SQLit said

lay the wire out straight on the floor. Someone feeds the wire in
maintaining an 'orientation'.

If I was pulling out of an elbow then feeding back in the other side, I
would usually pull out enough wire for the rest of the run then feed it
into the other side of the elbow. It may be easier if the wires are
taped periodically in the right 'orientation' as they are pulled out of
the elbow (keeps the 'orientation' and is less mess on the floor). It is
typically easiest to feed wire into the back entry of an elbow. If the
pulling rope stays connected to the wire (that is the 'orientation'
stays the same at the end of wires) you probably can just feed the wires
into the other side of the elbow but you have to get the 'rotation' of
the wire bundle right (or close). Correct the 'rotation' as you pull the
wires so when the wires are tight at the elbow the wire that is at the
back of the elbow is the same coming in and going out. Especially if you
are using pulling lubricant the floor has to be very clean.

If I was starting in the center and pulling both ways, after pulling one
side, I might start at the elbow and temporarily tape the wires in the
right 'orientation' every 3' or so. Then attach the pulling rope with
the wires in the right 'orientation'. Feed the wires in the other side,
preferrably the back side, as above. But remove the tape first so 1 wire
can be pulled at a time to get the wires tight into the elbow as
described before.

bud--

 

[DaveC]

Thus spake Ryan Evans:

Easy pull, even with no lubricant(if the conduit is new)
2 guys, one feeding & one pulling, no machine required.

Couldn't do it. Worked up quite a sweat trying.

From someone who actually does it.

Probably younger and stronger than I.
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[SQLit]

"DaveC" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BF852397015E730DF04075B0@news.readfreenews.net...

Thus spake Ryan Evans:

Easy pull, even with no lubricant(if the conduit is new)
2 guys, one feeding & one pulling, no machine required.

Couldn't do it. Worked up quite a sweat trying.

From someone who actually does it.

Probably younger and stronger than I.

there is a rhythm that you have to get into. One side pulls and the other
"pushes" but this has to be done in sync. Ya I know pushing on a rope
sounds stupid, but it works. Also the feeder of the wires is responsible for
"training" the wires into the smallest area.

I have worked with a lot of people that are in the electrical industry few
if any know the sync to make wire pulls easy and effortless. I pulled 175
feet of 3 #10's and 2 12's in a 3/4 conduit. The friend I had working with
me had not a clue how to assist. We were close enough that I could give him
instructions and we were done in less than 20 minutes including the
"training".

Hope ya pulled the conductors out. Leaving them in the conduit is a recipe
for disaster.

 

[Michael Kennedy]

I wonder what that is supposed to mean... I wonder if he is talking about
his conductor for his "train".... I know I know stupid joke... But I have no
idea what he is talking about when he said "Hope ya pulled the conductors
out. Leaving them in the conduit is a recipe for disaster." ???????

"No Spam" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:djqg6u$ra0$1@tuvok3.mmm.com...

SQLit wrote:

snip

Hope ya pulled the conductors out. Leaving them in the conduit is a
recipe
for disaster.


Huh??

 

[JosephKK]

DaveC wrote:

Four AWG #1 conductors in 2-1/2 inch EMT. 50 ft of conduit, four 90 deg.
elbows.

Is this combination reasonable to pull with some lubricant? Or should I
plan some "pull boxes" in this run?

Thanks,
For each 180 degrees of bend you must place a pull box, NEC requirement.

--
JosephKK

 

[JosephKK]

John Ray wrote:

electricitym@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129910601.020255.307480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You have to be kidding.... "should you plan some pull boxes in this
run?" ...... absolutely yes..... a pull box at each 90 deg elbow.
- - - - - - - -- - -

Oh come on! dealing with slack at four 90s is a MUCH bigger pain in the
ass that the pull itself.
To the OP...SQLit's recommendation is the right one.

John


idiot!

--
JosephKK

 

[JosephKK]

DaveC wrote:

Thus spake Bud--:

If you had used all sweeps as John Ray suggested think of the fun you
would have avoided.

Tried sweeps originally. Couldn't pull the wire. Changed to L's, and each
pull was do-able. Didn't know about keeping the wires parallel (no
cross-overs) which would have made the original attempt OK, probably.

Next time (!) I'm better armed with know-how.

Electricians have nifty motor drive wire pullers to make pulls like this
easy.

Rentable? Will consider that next time...

Thanks,
Actually what you actually did is probably better; more hassle but less

damage to the conductors (insulation).
--
JosephKK