Problem, Solution = gerbils??

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Mark Mcmillan" <mcmcm@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPHIc.751$mL5.331@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

A heat lamp or small Quartz spot lamp (saw some at Home Depot
yesterday 45W)
pointing at the PIR detector through a floor fan (fan on a stand)
(also at
HD) running on slow might do the trick. If that doesn't work you could
have
the fan oscillate back and forth to move the lamp in and out of the
field of
view of the defector, use some foil to baffle, shield, the heat
source.
Most of the PIR detectors I have seen are looking for a rate of change
above
a certain threshold in the 11 micron range (Black Body radiation peak
for 98
degree F object). If the rate of change is to slow the detector will
not see
it so a 555 driving a lamp might not heat up and cool off fast enough
to do
the trick.

Most people don't realize that you can modulate the incandescent lamp
with audio and detect it with a photovoltaic cell. It does sound
muffled, tho. So I would say that the lamp would have no problem
responding to the on/off cycles of a 555. And it's a helluva lot more
portable than a light, fan, foil, etc.

Do however let the group know how you solve the problem that we all
may
learn.

Well, I stopped by OSH and bought a clamp-on lamp socket with aluminum
reflector and a few 40W appliance bulbs. I'm planning on plugging it in
at each workstation, leave it on the floor or clamp it on the desk edge,
and to hell with the IR sensors, let 'em go off. I got my own light
source!

By the way if this new building also has Flame detectors a candle
might
work, all the firemen running around looking for the fire will set off
the
PID just fine, but be sure to where a rain coat.

Yeah, really! Thanks.

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote
in message news:10f3hvqc1j7ldf1@corp.supernews.com...
I and probably a lotta other people have a chronic problem that is
in
need of a simple solution. We're about to move into a new bldg and
I
have to do a lotta install'ns of PCs, etc., so I'm under the desk a
lot.
Every room in the new bldg has the motion sensors that turn off the
lights after a few minutrd, and I have to continually get up and
wave my
arms to reactivate the sensors.

Some of the sensors are PIR motion detectors, and some are
ultrasonic.
The US ones could be fooled with a fan in front of the sensor, But
how
can I fool a PIR motion sensor? I have to have a warm, moving body
in
front of the sensor, maybe a caged animal? Or a long wave IR
generator
that moves or generates an intermittent output. I've ruled out
candles
or other flames for safety reasons. A friend suggested a Lavalamp
might
work, but I don't think I want to wait ten or twenty minutes to warm
it
up. Maybe one of those old lamps with the rotating picture and fan
blades on top, that turns by convection currents from the light bulb
heat. I know that the IR output from IR LEDs is much too short a
wavelenght. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Andrew VK3BFA" <ablight@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:1fc7b362.0407121852.1f19053@posting.google.com...

"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\""
NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote in message

news:<10f3hvqc1j7ldf1@corp.supernews.com>...

I and probably a lotta other people have a chronic problem that is
in
need of a simple solution. We're about to move into a new bldg and
I
have to do a lotta install'ns of PCs, etc., so I'm under the desk a
lot.
Every room in the new bldg has the motion sensors that turn off the
lights after a few minutrd, and I have to continually get up and
wave my
arms to reactivate the sensors.

Some of the sensors are PIR motion detectors, and some are
ultrasonic.
The US ones could be fooled with a fan in front of the sensor, But
how
can I fool a PIR motion sensor? I have to have a warm, moving body
in
front of the sensor, maybe a caged animal? Or a long wave IR
generator
that moves or generates an intermittent output. I've ruled out
candles
or other flames for safety reasons. A friend suggested a Lavalamp
might
work, but I don't think I want to wait ten or twenty minutes to warm
it
up. Maybe one of those old lamps with the rotating picture and fan
blades on top, that turns by convection currents from the light bulb
heat. I know that the IR output from IR LEDs is much too short a
wavelenght. Any ideas? Thanks.


Real simple - plug a lead light into a AC outlet, then you dont have
to worry about the main lights. Most techs have one in the back of the
truck for situations where there is no AC lighting.....
73 de VK3BFA

PS - the hi tech stuff IS interesting, but sometimes the problem
becomes so complex it stops you doing what you originally set out to
do.

Yeah, drain the proverbial swamp.. Thanks.

 

[Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun]

John Fields wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:53:37 -0700, "Watson A.Name \"Watt Sun - the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

---
A 100 watt incandescent lamp turned on and off periodically will do
it. The trick is, you have to locate the lamp on one side or the
other of the PIR motion detector's sensitive region so that the heat
from the lamp will only get focused on one of the PIR sensor's two
detectors.

Ah-HAH! I'm finding out more and more about these sensors. So even tho
they're only three leads, ground, power and output, they have more than
a single sensor inside?

Yes. AFAIK there are three types of materials used in the sensors:
lithium niobate, poled polyvinylidene fluoride, and a ceramic of some

Yummy! You think I can find that flavor at Baskin Robbins? It's
getting to be Ice Cream weather! ;-)

Actually, recently I went into Coldstone, where they custom mix your
favorite flavors. Yummy, but more expensive.
http://www.coldstonecreamery.com/main/index.asp

sort. Almost all of them internally use two tiny rectangular sensors
which generate an electrical signal when they're heated, (or cooled)
and they're connected differentially so that if they're both heated or
cooled at the same rate the net output from the pair will be zero. A
lens is used in front of them so that as a warm object moves across
them the image will be focused when it hits them, and as the spot
traverses the pair it generates the desired output, which is usually
cap-coupled and severely bandwidth limited and eventually used to
makes the yes-no decision about whether to turn on the lights, or
detonate the bomb, or whatever.

It makes sense to have a pair to balance out any slow changes in
temperature, otherwise the thing would trigger every time the sunlight
hit it. I reverse engineered one security light circuit, and I was
surprised that they used a pair of electrolytics, 470 uF IIRC, back to
back as coupling caps to give the high pass filtering, aka keep the DC
out of the next stage amplifier.

---

That's good to know, thanks.

---
You're welcome.
---

Maybe that's why
J.T. suggested two lights spaced 3' apart.

---
More than likely, but you can do it just as well with a single
off-normal lamp, and I'd put it farther away from the center line than
18 inches just to make sure it's not hitting both sensors equally.

My 100 watts is probably way overkill, too, since we humans radiate
about 100 watts from a rather large area, so you could for sure get by
with less from a point-ish source like an incandescent lamp.

 

[Mjolinor]

Do however let the group know how you solve the problem that we all
may
learn.

Well, I stopped by OSH and bought a clamp-on lamp socket with aluminum
reflector and a few 40W appliance bulbs. I'm planning on plugging it in
at each workstation, leave it on the floor or clamp it on the desk edge,
and to hell with the IR sensors, let 'em go off. I got my own light
source!

Boring in the extreme. All these good ideas and I was waiting for a
modulated cat passive heat dissipating shields with remote control tied to a
fan and you go and buy lamps, most unsatisfactory.

 

[Guy Macon]

Mjolinor <mjolinor@hotmail.com> says...

Well, I stopped by OSH and bought a clamp-on lamp socket with aluminum
reflector and a few 40W appliance bulbs. I'm planning on plugging it in
at each workstation, leave it on the floor or clamp it on the desk edge,
and to hell with the IR sensors, let 'em go off. I got my own light
source!

Boring in the extreme. All these good ideas and I was waiting for a
modulated cat passive heat dissipating shields with remote control tied to a
fan and you go and buy lamps, most unsatisfactory.

Boring, but a superior solution. It gets quite dim under a desk with
the only illumination bring the overhead lighting.

(Why are so many people crossposting to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic?
don't you people know what the words "binaries" and "schematics" mean?)

 

[Richard Freeman]

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:10f42lu14b75vdc@corp.supernews.com...

"Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast DOT net> wrote in message
news:QcidnZGdePtQnW_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover""
NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:10f3vv7j4k8pq07@corp.supernews.com...
:
: "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
: news:40f1f943$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
:
: > "Watson A.Name -


Why not just remove the cover and flip
the override switch?

I suppose I could do that for one room with a lot of PCs. But I'd
probably spend too much time diong that if I have a few dozen rooms to
do, each with a one or two PCs. The newer switches don't have
ON-Auto-OFF, just Auto and Off, so one can't defeat the sensor. I've
opened up switches to adjust the sensitivity or time, but I've never
seen one with an overrride. It sure would be convenient if I had a box
that I could just carry from one room to another. Thanks.

A lot of the movement sensor Lights I have seen have an over-ride function
where the light stays permanently on if you flip the light switch off and
back on in less than a couple of Seconds....

 

[Richard Freeman]

"Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:ccv764$7p5fb$1@hades.csu.net...

Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover" wrote:
The Real Andy wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 16:11:43 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote:


I and probably a lotta other people have a chronic problem that is in
need of a simple solution. We're about to move into a new bldg and I
have to do a lotta install'ns of PCs, etc., so I'm under the desk a
lot.
Every room in the new bldg has the motion sensors that turn off the
lights after a few minutrd, and I have to continually get up and wave
my
arms to reactivate the sensors.

Some of the sensors are PIR motion detectors, and some are ultrasonic.
The US ones could be fooled with a fan in front of the sensor, But
how
can I fool a PIR motion sensor? I have to have a warm, moving body in
front of the sensor, maybe a caged animal? Or a long wave IR
generator
that moves or generates an intermittent output. I've ruled out
candles
or other flames for safety reasons. A friend suggested a Lavalamp
might
work, but I don't think I want to wait ten or twenty minutes to warm
it
up. Maybe one of those old lamps with the rotating picture and fan
blades on top, that turns by convection currents from the light bulb
heat. I know that the IR output from IR LEDs is much too short a
wavelenght. Any ideas? Thanks.



Now I am not quite sure what devices are being used, but all the PIR
movement sensors for lights I ahve seen can be toggled into an 'always
on' mode by quickly switching the light switch off the on.


Well, thank you for that information. The usual new bldg has these
sensors installed by the electricians, and then all the instructions are
discarded along with the leftover packaging, so absolutely *no* one has
a clue as to how these work and what to do with them. Isn't that
crazily amazing..

Well, I went out there today and went on a walk-thru of the new bldg
with the other honchos. I found that the light switches have _two_
small buttons, side-by-side, labeled "I" and "II". These are set up so
that one of them lights the center tube of the three-tube fluo light,
and the other lights the two outer tubes of the fluo light. So you can
press both buttons for all three. Unfortunately there's no way to
rapidly toggle these on and off, because they're like a ball point pen,
they're click on, click off. And they're small enough so that if you're
trying to hit them quickly, you're likely to press the wrong one, or
both of them.

Ahh missed this bit of the thread .... The Sensor switches I have seen give
you a couple of Seconds to toggle them off and On - however it does sound
like these ones may not be designed for this option but if they use a
standard Chip/Circuit this still might work have you tried turning them On
..... then off and on again to see if they do stay on ?