PLL tricks

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:26:29 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<rvrr1als3fjslom3vpapqr0a3v6ps3lh1a@4ax.com>:

Conventional TV will soon die. The cable and satellite companies will
just transport Internet traffic. Everything will be digital,
watch-anytime, mostly commercial-free.

Not sure, a single controlled channel to control the masses is very useful.
Satellite can reach many homes, cable not everything.
for Germany ARD, ZDF etc
for the UK BBC(1-4).

Advertisers do big business here with free to air sat channels.
Germany: prosieben.de sat1.de vox.de, rtl.de rtl2.de (type in browser),
UK: C4, C5, ITV(1,2),
http://www.tvguide.co.uk/
So all that stuff is free, and always some movies somewhere,
I think ITV has a HD channel too.

I would not pay for movies, those are not that great.

What I found peculiar is that a few weeks back 'Avatar' was announced on one of these free channels.
Now 'Avatar' was a 3D production, but not a word about 3D.
They transmitted it in normal resolution, 2D.
Still watchable though.
Is 3D dead?

Yes I have very fast cable too, on a regular basis the speed is increased it seems.
downloading a Linux 4 GB DVD is very fast...
youtube is fast too...

But cable, as in TCP/IP, shares bandwidth with other users,
so the more start streaming movies the more the speed decreases IIRC.
They do have movie on demand too, never used it.
If a movie is really good I will hear about it and some day it will appear on one of those free to air sat channels.

There do not seem to be that many that are good, UK re-transmits the same ones over and over again.
think I have seen the same 'bond' movies in the program list for at least 10 times.
I mean how many times can you stand it...
you know, I typed
rm smoking_aces_german.ts terminator_3_rebellion_der_machinen_german.ts
yesterday, had it running overnight recording from sat, yes they change the sound channel to German.
sometimes the German sound is better than the original, they do not transmit the original sound.
Anyways, just deleted it without watching it.

Caesar:
"Give the people bread and games"
That is when he was making war and conquering country after country,
in the same way we bomb country after country and employ the fugitives as slaves here in low level jobs.
Nothing much changed, but ask yourself where is the Roman empire now?
The slaves had some uprising, Caesar was killed, that Cleopatra stuff, the Roman allies were treated like
dirt by the now slaves in power, and turned against it, then all by itself the Roman armies were nowhere,
it got overrun by 'barbarians' (talk about painting the enemies, these days we have Al Quada, well
for the US mostly the rest if the universe), history repeats itself.
As I stated I cannot say too much: prime directive: Do Not Interfere With Time line.
 
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 11:58:16 PM UTC-4, Tom Swift wrote:
dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:

Mail me at my posted address (it's good), and I'll send you the
articles.

Got the articles. Thanks.

Sure thing.

> Your return email address bounced so here's my reply:

Odd. Your first e-mail came through fine, yet Mr. Heath's went to the spam
box. Yahoo, ironically, is getting uppity.

(OTOH, George H.'s ISP rejects my emails no matter where I send them from. :)


Hi James,

Thanks very much for the articles. I think he is using the wrong approach
to calculate the reduction in crystal Q. Transistor hFe is the DC current
gain, not the gain at HF or VHF. It is cerainly not 100 with those
transitors.

I think he's using hFE for d.c. bias and computing the effective emitter
resistance, not r.f. gain. He later refers to the effect of the (emitter
resistance + crystal ESR) on figure 6/7's r.f. gain.

But I was perhaps unfair in describing the preferred technique. Matthys
also gives favorable report on the harmonic Pierce version, and says (in
the earlier article):

"Using a reactive load on the crystal (as in the Pierce circuit) is a
very effective way to obtain a high in-circuit Q."

His 2nd article (several years later) concludes:

"The Harmonic Pierce (Figure 9d) is a simple and excellent circuit whose
short term stability is almost as good as the emitter coupled circuit.
The Harmonic Emitter Coupled circuit (Figure 1) is a little more complex
than the others and can have more parts, but it has the best short term
frequency stability."

Also I'm not sure about putting the crystal in series with
the emitter. Using the grounded-base emitter impedance is a poor idea in
my view. The series capacitors used in the Colpitts or Clapp would be
much lower and much more repeatable.

I've got another, slightly earlier 1983 article by Belcher that recommends
the impedance-inverting Pierce configuration. He gets in-circuit Q~=70K.

Belcher also posts drift data showing that his improvements do not degrade
the crystal's intrinsic tempco, as an indication that the crystal is in
full control.

Unfortunately that article only scans legibly in gray-scale, which makes the
file size impractical.

But it is still interesting to see how circuits were designed in the days
before LTspice.

"Crystal Oscillator Circuits by Robert J. Matthys" came out in 1983,
IIRC. That's the version I have, apparently since revised:

Format: Hardcover
ISBN-10: 0894645528
ISBN-13: 9780894645525
Publisher: Krieger Publishing Company
266 pages

On the third page of "A High Performance VHF Crystal Oscillator
Circuit", in the column of text right under the legend "Figure 5,"

Matthys recites:

"the crystal's internal Q is thus degraded...only 19 percent."

Very impressive.

The Croven crystals' site lists crystals and specs, with
5th-overtone units in the 100K-Q range.

Cheers,
James Arthur
 
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 3:09:53 AM UTC-4, Kevin Aylward wrote:

Example, I looked at the Wenzel oscillator
http://crovencrystals.com/applications/clockosc.htm referenced in this
thread. There is standard product out there that does better than -170dBc
noise floor for the oscillator and -165dBc after the limiter.

"At what carrier offset?" is always the question, of course.

Teaser - in the clockosc.htm, the close in noise is not mentioned, why does
the method shown of connecting the limiter to the oscillator severely
degrade the close in phase noise? Hint: failure of Hajimiri-Lee method
discussed in phasenoise.html above.

At first glance, the 100pF coupling cap would seem to be a big problem at
low frequency.

But we can't expect Wenzel--who's in the low-noise oscillator business--to
put out his best secrets for free.

> Correct answer gets a free SuperPSice licence :)

Cheers,
James Arthur
 
On Monday, 22 September 2014 00:33:58 UTC+10, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 11:58:16 PM UTC-4, Tom Swift wrote:
dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

Unfortunately that article only scans legibly in gray-scale, which makes the
file size impractical.

Can you run it through character-recognition software?

The software that came with my cheap Epson printer/scanner - a Stylus NX635 - seems to do that automatically when I ask for a .pdf output, and it does seem to generate reasonably compact files.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, 22 September 2014 00:41:15 UTC+10, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:15:54 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org
wrote:
On 21/09/2014 3:04 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:53:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, 21 September 2014 12:57:41 UTC+10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:

<snip>

> More lies, but you're incapable of doing otherwise.

You may think so. It's not a particularly reliable opinion, since you seem to detect a lot more deliberate lies than anybody else, which does suggest that your truth/lies catagorisation scheme generates a lot more "lie" outputs than it should.

<snip>

Dear me. Another krw look-alike.

More lies, but that's only to be expected of a liar.

"Liar" in krw-speak means anybody whose opinions krw doesn't share.

No, but you're simply proving my point. You're incapable of telling
the truth.

Or you are incapable of recognising it.

The real-world translation is "sane person".

You've never looked at one in the mirror, that's certain.

As "certain" as any other of krw's claims.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings trying
to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even more inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

More lies but nothing new.

It certainly isn't a point of view that krw could be expected to share.

Krw again congratulates me on being saner than he is - not a
particularly ringing endorsement, since even Jamie qualifies for it.

Once again, you prove my point. You *are* incapable of telling the
truth.

Or you are incapable of recognising it, even when it is blatantly obvious to less demented observers.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, 22 September 2014 01:06:21 UTC+10, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
In article <6c16130b-886b-4768-9993-804c4056fb5c@googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@gmail.com says...

snip

When it comes to politics you are an idiot and that means you have few
friends.

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

snip

It would be in your mind since it's been so well
condition from birth.

You probably meant "conditioned". As a child I was conditioned to see the Communist Party as absolutely evil - I read Readers Digest, which had at least one article demonising Soviet Communism in every issue

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com.au/2009/08/readers-digest-national-geographic-and.html

and I saw political ads from the Australian Liberal Party that depicted Soviet Communist influence in Australian trade unions as "the Red Octopus".

When I got old enough -14 - to recognise this sort of stuff as dim-witted propaganda, I was also old enough to know that George Orwell was right - Soviet Communism was a totalitarian regime, which had very little in common with the socialism that George Orwell endorsed.

Since then I've learned quite a bit more, and I'm pretty confident that the childhood conditioning didn't actually work

Taking into account your age bracket, statistics
say you'll never see it any other way, even if they tried.

Who are "they"?

You may be the kind of twit who - as a man - still thinks as he did as child.

Most of us have managed to grow up, and put away childish misapprehensions.

Yes, you have endured your entire life being a good
little subservient follower, believing everything they
spoon fed you.

I'm sure that you and krw can believe this. My employers and colleagues always found me irritatingly sceptical, but then they were all a bit smarter than you are.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, 22 September 2014 01:10:12 UTC+10, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
In article <loot1a9ud84ef4h6jasi66ngiv337scr95@4ax.com>, krw@attt.bizz
says...

<snip>

The real-world translation is "sane person".

You've never looked at one in the mirror, that's certain.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings
trying to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even
more inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

More lies but nothing new.

Krw again congratulates me on being saner than he is - not a
particularly ringing endorsement, since even Jamie qualifies for it.

Once again, you prove my point. You *are* incapable of telling the
truth.

In Bill's case, the truth has to be known before it can be told.

In krw's case, the "truth" was made known to krw by a process of divine revelation. Krw was a bit too dim to notice that creature doing the revelating had horns and a forked tail.

> Evidents thus far, shows that may never happen.

Jamie probably meant "evidence" but since he doesn't understand the concept of evidence, it's not surprising that he hasn't master the spelling of the word either.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Monday, 22 September 2014 01:24:23 UTC+10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:53:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:
On Sunday, 21 September 2014 12:57:41 UTC+10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

snip

Again, you STUPID FUCK. YOU do NOT know a goddamned thing about this
nation!

Dear me.

Take your retarded, poorly composed, inane colloquialisms with you,
idiot.

Another krw look-alike.

Folks like you should not be permitted to breath clean air.

And the Tea Party supports your point of view - though they do generalise it to preventing anybody from breathing clean air.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings

It doesn't take much current knowledge to know that the fucking
"party" never existed, and does not to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

trying
to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even more
inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

You're an abject idiot.

About as abject as I am an idiot. Nobody with your enthusiasm for posting in
upper case should waste time making that kind of claim - it makes you look just a little sillier than you did before.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
 
On Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:52:25 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, 22 September 2014 00:33:58 UTC+10, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Saturday, September 20, 2014 11:58:16 PM UTC-4, Tom Swift wrote:
dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:

snip

Unfortunately that article only scans legibly in gray-scale, which makes the
file size impractical.

Can you run it through character-recognition software?

The software that came with my cheap Epson printer/scanner - a Stylus NX635 - seems to do that automatically when I ask for a .pdf output, and it does seem to generate reasonably compact files.

I might try another computer. The one I scanned it on has excellent OCR
text accuracy, but strips *all* the formatting and puts the text in odd
places.

I've got a few more choices on the office computer.


Cheers,
James Arthur
 
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:21:11 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/21/2014 1:04 AM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:53:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 21 September 2014 12:57:41 UTC+10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

The "Tea Party" is not a political party, which you've been told
*many* times. The only conclusion one can draw is that you're a
damned liar.

snip

Again, you STUPID FUCK. YOU do NOT know a goddamned thing about this
nation!

Dear me. Another krw look-alike.

More lies, but that's only to be expected of a liar.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings trying
to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even more inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

More lies but nothing new.

I know, lies, lies, lies. It's enough to make you puke!

You certainly fit the bill (or the Bill, as it happens).
 
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:15:54 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:

On 21/09/2014 3:04 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:53:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, 21 September 2014 12:57:41 UTC+10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

The "Tea Party" is not a political party, which you've been told
*many* times. The only conclusion one can draw is that you're a
damned liar.

The Tea Party is a political faction within the Republican party, so you
may be technically correct, but since it spends its time rooting out
electable moderate Republicans and replacing them with unelectable
far-right-wing nutcases, it's probably more realistically described as a
separate - parasitic - party within a party. A sort of political tape-worm.

More lies, but you're incapable of doing otherwise.
snip

Again, you STUPID FUCK. YOU do NOT know a goddamned thing about this
nation!

Dear me. Another krw look-alike.

More lies, but that's only to be expected of a liar.

"Liar" in krw-speak means anybody whose opinions krw doesn't share.

No, but you're simply proving my point. You're incapable of telling
the truth.

>The real-world translation is "sane person".

You've never looked at one in the mirror, that's certain.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings trying
to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even more inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

More lies but nothing new.

Krw again congratulates me on being saner than he is - not a
particularly ringing endorsement, since even Jamie qualifies for it.

Once again, you prove my point. You *are* incapable of telling the
truth.
 
On 20 Sep 2014 01:34:45 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2014-09-19, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:32:07 -0500, ChesterW <iamsnoozin@yahoo.com
wrote:

Anyway, I make your 155.52 MHz oscillator with 0.2 ps rms jitter as
containing 15.0 bits of information. When it degrades to 12.7 bits
you're on the edge of your 1 ps error budget. That and how fast it
degrades should set the performance requirements on the feedback loop.

ChesterW


Seems to me that more modulation of a sine wave carries more
information, not less.

Does a perfect sine wave convey an infinite amount of information?

yes, frequency, amplitude, and phase to infinite precision.

The information is:

F = 1

A = 1

P = 0

How is that an infinite amount of information? It doesn't look very
interesting to me. Sime waves are boring anyhow.






--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
In article <6c16130b-886b-4768-9993-804c4056fb5c@googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@gmail.com says...
snip

When it comes to politics you are an idiot and that means you have few
friends.

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

snip

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

It would be in your mind since it's been so well
condition from birth.

Taking into account your age bracket, statistics
say you'll never see it any other way, even if they tried.


Yes, you have endured your entire life being a good
little subservient follower, believing everything they
spoon fed you.

Jamie
 
In article <loot1a9ud84ef4h6jasi66ngiv337scr95@4ax.com>, krw@attt.bizz
says...
the truth.

The real-world translation is "sane person".

You've never looked at one in the mirror, that's certain.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings trying
to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even more inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

More lies but nothing new.

Krw again congratulates me on being saner than he is - not a
particularly ringing endorsement, since even Jamie qualifies for it.

Once again, you prove my point. You *are* incapable of telling the
truth.

In Bill's case, the truth has to be known before it can be told.

Evidents thus far, shows that may never happen.

Jamie
 
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:53:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:

On Sunday, 21 September 2014 12:57:41 UTC+10, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@gmail.com> Gave us:

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

snip

Again, you STUPID FUCK. YOU do NOT know a goddamned thing about this
nation!

Dear me.

Take your retarded, poorly composed, inane colloquialisms with you,
idiot.

> Another krw look-alike.

Folks like you should not be permitted to breath clean air.

One doesn't need to know much about the
USA to realise that the TEA Party are bunch of political lemmings

It doesn't take much current knowledge to know that the fucking
"party" never existed, and does not to this day.

trying
to make a society that is moving the wrong way - becoming even more inegalitarian - even more dysfunctional.

You're an abject idiot.
 
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:21:11 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> Gave us:

I know, lies, lies, lies. It's enough to make you puke!

Your "one liner follow-up" mentallity certainly is.
 
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:15:54 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Gave us:

>The Tea Party is a political faction within the Republican party,

This isn't even true, you fucking total retard.

> so you may be technically correct,

He IS correct, and you ARE a fucking idiot!
 
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:39:08 -0400, krw@attt.bizz Gave us:

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:21:11 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:



I know, lies, lies, lies. It's enough to make you puke!

You certainly fit the bill (or the Bill, as it happens).

The idiot talks as if the two of them *are* fucking sometimes.

Couldn't resist. Bwuahahahaha! BRL!!
 
In article <d981c10d-f1e2-4721-a489-8b3998c1371c@googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@gmail.com says...
Yes, you have endured your entire life being a good
little subservient follower, believing everything they
spoon fed you.

I'm sure that you and krw can believe this. My employers and colleagues always found me irritatingly sceptical, but then they were all a bit smarter than you are.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

You mean you had them fooled?

Jamie
 
In article <8568b3e1-3f41-4c42-a30c-b80f3358d2a0@googlegroups.com>,
bill.sloman@gmail.com says...
In Bill's case, the truth has to be known before it can be told.

In krw's case, the "truth" was made known to krw by a process of divine revelation. Krw was a bit too dim to notice that creature doing the revelating had horns and a forked tail.

Evidents thus far, shows that may never happen.

Jamie probably meant "evidence" but since he doesn't understand the concept of evidence, it's not surprising that he hasn't master the spelling of the word either.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

It really doesn't matter, the facts have been laid out and
you have been exposed.

It's as simple as that. What's left is protecting others from you.

Jamie
 

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