PLL tricks

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:19:11 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com>
Gave us:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:54:25 -0400) it happened krw@attt.bizz
wrote in <u05r1a9cn3c222vmmvovntfpfgdana8unt@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:37:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:18:42 -0400) it happened krw@attt.bizz
wrote in <v32r1ahl8jg9t0qm3vhgq6ph7ff07deknf@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:36:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:42:28 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <lvjlmr$1tj$1@dont-email.me>:

On 20/09/2014 7:58 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
6eb4d413-9b79-48f5-84f3-d73d93bbc9e8@googlegroups.com>:

snip

And those fusion lasers, chances are same as winning the euromillions.

Never the main reason for the set-up - it's actual job, as a opposed to
the PR window-dressing, has always been nuclear weapons testing and
maintenance.

Now I am curious, how do you test nukes by imploding a pellet of ??
with lasers?
US has plenty nukes, some need fresh plutonium I've read..

"Fresh plutonium"? Perhaps tritium but Pt doesn't go "stale" (in
hundreds of our lifetimes).

Maybe some more recent electronics, would make me feel safer.


Microsoft nukes? Google nukes? They seem to be fine, just as they
are.

It was a deep think remark,
but I ment they would have less chance of working with the new 'tronix'

Or working when you don't want them to. No, they're just fine as they
are.

Da nigga seems to want nuke war with Russia.

Skipping the obvious racist remark,

Nono, not racist, just trying to cummunicate on the level of his voidters.

he's asking for war with everyone
from Albania to Zimbabwe. That's what weakness does.

Yes the old saying goes:
challenging...
A strong man will ignore you,
a weak man may kill you.

I like this one to:
Do Not Argue With The Man With The Nukes.

But 0banana, like that Clignon before him, wants war in Europe.
that makes the US not exactly my friend.

Putin has a lot of patience with the demonrat club,
I would have glassified Washington,
bas I am weak...

I mean that would benefit both Russia, Europe, and the US.
maybe the far east too!


How come I am into politics all of the sudden...

Because you are stupid.

You too, should take a few days, and watch the entire Science Fiction
TV series "LEXX".

It shows just how stupid people like you are. But you will not
understand which character(s) I would equate you to.

Guaranteed great show about human nature. Recommended for all.

But this JanPan idiot needs to STOP for a bit and smell his mortality.

You remind me of "Fifi".

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:29:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Gave us:

Immediate cause was that somebody in the Engine Room accidentally
entered a zero in a field of a screen about pump performance, causing
Windows NT to crash, and take the network down with it.

An application causing a hard kernel crash? NO!

A workstation locking up a network?

Bet no ship operates its network that way any more.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 07:51:11 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
<ExtractkevinRemove@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:

"John Larkin" wrote in message
news:7eip1al1odp2hfed8c129dbthi6vrrpple@4ax.com...

Don't get me wrong, some things, like filter design, are crazy to do by
simulation or experiment.

In general, I agree that the most practical way to get a filter design is to
use the standard closed form techniques. I have many of them built into
SuperSpice. Press the button and it places the filter on the schematic.

However... I have come across research in evolution genetic algorithms that
have "designed" impressive filters by that select, replicate, random
variation, process. Component connection topologies pop up in the most
unusual configurations.

Modern filter theory came about by the objective of obtaining closed form
solutions to construct filters of arbitrary order, before computers were
available. It turns out, that selecting a topology, then running an
optimiser to get the component values to get a filter response to match a
given frequency/phase profile, will, essentially, always get you a better
match than a standard filter. Standard filters are mainly used for
convenience.

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

The trick with LC filters is to use standard value Ls and Cs. That's a
good opportuity for massive frobbing.

More fun if you allow series and parallel parts.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Joe Gwinn]

In article <6far1ahvnldshtjqjt5smti0852j54ddf2@4ax.com>,
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:29:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net
Gave us:

Immediate cause was that somebody in the Engine Room accidentally
entered a zero in a field of a screen about pump performance, causing
Windows NT to crash, and take the network down with it.


An application causing a hard kernel crash? NO!

Lots of database engines operate with privileged access.


> A workstation locking up a network?

I'm guessing that the network involved Active Directory.


> Bet no ship operates its network that way any more.

Not in the US Navy for sure.


Joe Gwinn

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
6eb4d413-9b79-48f5-84f3-d73d93bbc9e8@googlegroups.com>:

Here's a web-accessible example from Wenzel:
http://crovencrystals.com/applications/clockosc.htm

Nice.

Given VCOs with resonators of Q>=70K+, that translates to a crystal 3dB
passband on the order of 2-3KHz @ 155MHz. I'm not immediately sure if
that means 80KHz phase comparisons are enough to keep it on track, but
at least it doesn't look ridiculous...

I mentioned microwave bricks...KE5FX has a schematic for one here:
http://www.ke5fx.com/brick/fwbrick.pdf

Microwaves... If you want a free running oscillator,
then the litte ceramic pucks in the satellite LNBs are 9.something and 10.something GHz,
and have really really low noise.
The little yellowish disks on the right:
http://panteltje.com/pub/5_dollar_LNB_PCB_IMG_3582.GIF

You can bring these down in frequency by mechanical loading, for example by gluing some
parts of a broken one on it.
So mechanical vibrations at 10 GHz, and cheap.
One project on the table here is converting a standard LNB to a transmitter for the 10.5 GHz ham band, DVB-S.
This is done by changing the input and output of the 10 GHz pre-amp so it drives the horn,
and is fed from the (ring diode) mixer.
Very low power that is.
And all is very very low phase noise, even after mixing up with those pucks.
http://www.pi6atv.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=docclick&Itemid=126&bid=299&limitstart=0&limit=10
From:
http://www.pi6atv.com/content/view/47/108/
Now try to simulate that.

Von Braun went to the moon and back without simulations.

Doubt it. They had mainframe computers and analog computers. The lunar
lander had an onboard computer; ditto the S1B booster. I bet they
simulated a lot of stuff.

There is a large number of companies that try to sell C++ compilers and simulators and what not,
kids (say students) - are indoctrinated with it.
And where does it go? Not even to the ISS.
Inferior color system in the US, most decisions politically based, if not all.

The first people who invent things generally don't do it the best way.
Copiers can improve it.


>Bloatware no end, quad cores to read your email.

Most people now use small ARM chips and Linux in phones and tablets. I
like massive CPU horsepower and gigabytes of fast DRAM for simulation.

Side effect of capitalism I guess, production of ever more crap.
It WILL collapse.

Probably not. Some mass virus, like ebola or something, could be
nasty. Or a comet, or a big volcano. But economics will muddle along.

People are buying less crap. TVs last a long time and are good enough.
Ditto cars.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:36:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:42:28 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <lvjlmr$1tj$1@dont-email.me>:

On 20/09/2014 7:58 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
6eb4d413-9b79-48f5-84f3-d73d93bbc9e8@googlegroups.com>:

snip

And those fusion lasers, chances are same as winning the euromillions.

Never the main reason for the set-up - it's actual job, as a opposed to
the PR window-dressing, has always been nuclear weapons testing and
maintenance.

Now I am curious, how do you test nukes by imploding a pellet of ??
with lasers?

Verify hydrodynamic simulation code.

>US has plenty nukes, some need fresh plutonium I've read..

What they need is fresh tritium.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 4:09:04 AM UTC-4, Tom Swift wrote:

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

I scanned Matthys' articles to .PDF, if anyone wants them.
[1] Crystal Oscillator Circuits for VHF, Robert Matthys, RF Design,
May/June 1983 p62
[2] A High-Performance VHF Crystal Oscillator
Circuit, Robert Matthys, RF Design, March 1987, p31-38

I would like copies. Can you upload them to some file host?

E-mail is all I've got, but I'd be happy to send them your way.

Mail me at my posted address (it's good), and I'll send you the
articles.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

Jan Panteltje wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Von Braun went to the moon and back without simulations.

Doubt it. They had mainframe computers and analog computers. The lunar
lander had an onboard computer; ditto the S1B booster. I bet they
simulated a lot of stuff.

Yes I played moon landing game on a PET2000 computah, it had a cassette drive for the program:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET

Luxury. We used programmable calculators, mostly made of wood, and had
to plow through the driving Southern California winters with pedal-power
to do that. All that just to crash on a simulated moon, and die an
ignominious, simulated death.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:41:02 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<sder1apfbj4f39s55cddghroj01f41u6ft@4ax.com>:

Von Braun went to the moon and back without simulations.

Doubt it. They had mainframe computers and analog computers. The lunar
lander had an onboard computer; ditto the S1B booster. I bet they
simulated a lot of stuff.

Yes I played moon landing game on a PET2000 computah, it had a cassette drive for the program:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET

OTOH, Von Braun was a bottom up man,
he started as kid playing with rockets, he and his German crew knew everything there was to know,
and that is the only reason it worked, his brain, his neural net,
no simulations.
Basic math.
It is always interactive, his first satellite was too high up....
he forgot to account for the rotation of the earth to give that extra push IIRC.

There is a large number of companies that try to sell C++ compilers and simulators and what not,
kids (say students) - are indoctrinated with it.
And where does it go? Not even to the ISS.
Inferior color system in the US, most decisions politically based, if not all.

The first people who invent things generally don't do it the best way.
Copiers can improve it.

Copiers do, and copiers have been improved too
First there was Japan making better cameras (where is Kodak), now China is making better things,
look at their fighter jets, those really fly, unlike the F35
that is slimulated.

Bloatware no end, quad cores to read your email.

Most people now use small ARM chips and Linux in phones and tablets. I
like massive CPU horsepower and gigabytes of fast DRAM for simulation.

Many if not most high end tablets have quad cores these days.

Side effect of capitalism I guess, production of ever more crap.
It WILL collapse.

Probably not. Some mass virus, like ebola or something, could be
nasty. Or a comet, or a big volcano. But economics will muddle along.

I could imagine people turning against engineering, burning engineers like witches.
It does not take much to change group consciousness, create some sort of hysteria.
You see them attacking ebola doctors now, and right they are!
Them clueless doctors are spreading it all over the globe, big farma sees an opportunity
to push an other global vaccine down peoples throats.

People are buying less crap. TVs last a long time and are good enough.
Ditto cars.

The old TV standard lasted many many years, then a short period of color using the same H and V frequencies,
then digital, now DVB-S2 here, not to mention DVB-T, and even a new standard is in the making (better encryption too I think).
Changes now every five or so years, people need to buy again and again and again.
Same with computahs, a 10 year old computah is probably not worth repairing.
Well, I still have a 10 year old computah somewhere... its off.

Even my Raspberry Pi version B is now old, the B+ version (bigger GPIO header) is now out.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:42:26 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
<22fr1al5qo8jfaqa49tcsvgkmdem4ant4j@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:36:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:42:28 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <lvjlmr$1tj$1@dont-email.me>:

On 20/09/2014 7:58 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
6eb4d413-9b79-48f5-84f3-d73d93bbc9e8@googlegroups.com>:

snip

And those fusion lasers, chances are same as winning the euromillions.

Never the main reason for the set-up - it's actual job, as a opposed to
the PR window-dressing, has always been nuclear weapons testing and
maintenance.

Now I am curious, how do you test nukes by imploding a pellet of ??
with lasers?

Verify hydrodynamic simulation code.

US has plenty nukes, some need fresh plutonium I've read..

What they need is fresh tritium.

My tritium decay experiment is now running for 2 1/2 years.
They cannot have it.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/tri_pic/
periodic changes in decay have been observed (bottom page)

 

[rickman]

On 9/20/2014 11:19 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:54:25 -0400) it happened krw@attt.bizz
wrote in <u05r1a9cn3c222vmmvovntfpfgdana8unt@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:37:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:18:42 -0400) it happened krw@attt.bizz
wrote in <v32r1ahl8jg9t0qm3vhgq6ph7ff07deknf@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:36:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:42:28 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <lvjlmr$1tj$1@dont-email.me>:

On 20/09/2014 7:58 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
6eb4d413-9b79-48f5-84f3-d73d93bbc9e8@googlegroups.com>:

snip

And those fusion lasers, chances are same as winning the euromillions.

Never the main reason for the set-up - it's actual job, as a opposed to
the PR window-dressing, has always been nuclear weapons testing and
maintenance.

Now I am curious, how do you test nukes by imploding a pellet of ??
with lasers?
US has plenty nukes, some need fresh plutonium I've read..

"Fresh plutonium"? Perhaps tritium but Pt doesn't go "stale" (in
hundreds of our lifetimes).

Maybe some more recent electronics, would make me feel safer.


Microsoft nukes? Google nukes? They seem to be fine, just as they
are.

It was a deep think remark,
but I ment they would have less chance of working with the new 'tronix'

Or working when you don't want them to. No, they're just fine as they
are.

Da nigga seems to want nuke war with Russia.

Skipping the obvious racist remark,

Nono, not racist, just trying to cummunicate on the level of his voidters.

he's asking for war with everyone
from Albania to Zimbabwe. That's what weakness does.

Yes the old saying goes:
challenging...
A strong man will ignore you,
a weak man may kill you.

I like this one to:
Do Not Argue With The Man With The Nukes.

But 0banana, like that Clignon before him, wants war in Europe.
that makes the US not exactly my friend.

When it comes to politics you are an idiot and that means you have few
friends.

Putin has a lot of patience with the demonrat club,
I would have glassified Washington,
bas I am weak...

I mean that would benefit both Russia, Europe, and the US.
maybe the far east too!


How come I am into politics all of the sudden...

Exactly! The first intelligent thing about politics I've ever heard you
say!

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 9/20/2014 1:41 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

Side effect of capitalism I guess, production of ever more crap.
It WILL collapse.

Probably not. Some mass virus, like ebola or something, could be
nasty. Or a comet, or a big volcano. But economics will muddle along.

People are buying less crap. TVs last a long time and are good enough.
Ditto cars.

Now I'm confused. People buying less crap is *exactly* the one thing
that will topple capitalism.

We can't let that happen and the entire free market is behind me on this.

--

Rick

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, 21 September 2014 09:37:32 UTC+10, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
John Larkin wrote:

Von Braun went to the moon and back without simulations.

Doubt it. They had mainframe computers and analog computers. The lunar
lander had an onboard computer; ditto the S1B booster. I bet they
simulated a lot of stuff.

Yes I played moon landing game on a PET2000 computah, it had a cassette drive for the program:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET

Luxury. We used programmable calculators, mostly made of wood, and had
to plow through the driving Southern California winters with pedal-power
to do that. All that just to crash on a simulated moon, and die an
ignominious, simulated death.

Monty Python did it first. And they had to work a 29-hour day.

http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, 21 September 2014 06:17:57 UTC+10, rickman wrote:

On 9/20/2014 11:19 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:54:25 -0400) it happened krw@attt.bizz
wrote in <u05r1a9cn3c222vmmvovntfpfgdana8unt@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:37:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:18:42 -0400) it happened
krw@attt.bizz
wrote in <v32r1ahl8jg9t0qm3vhgq6ph7ff07deknf@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 12:36:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:42:28 +1000) it happened Bill Sloma
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <lvjlmr$1tj$1@dont-email.me>:
On 20/09/2014 7:58 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote in
6eb4d413-9b79-48f5-84f3-d73d93bbc9e8@googlegroups.com>:

<snip>

When it comes to politics you are an idiot and that means you have few
friends.

That doesn't follow. There are political parties that are entirely composed of idiots - the Tea Party comes to mind.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:23:04 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

On 9/20/2014 1:41 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:58:00 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com
wrote:

Side effect of capitalism I guess, production of ever more crap.
It WILL collapse.

Probably not. Some mass virus, like ebola or something, could be
nasty. Or a comet, or a big volcano. But economics will muddle along.

People are buying less crap. TVs last a long time and are good enough.
Ditto cars.

Now I'm confused. People buying less crap is *exactly* the one thing
that will topple capitalism.

Yeah, don't worry, socialists like Slowman will feed you.

>We can't let that happen and the entire free market is behind me on this.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:07:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:41:02 -0700) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
sder1apfbj4f39s55cddghroj01f41u6ft@4ax.com>:

Von Braun went to the moon and back without simulations.

Doubt it. They had mainframe computers and analog computers. The lunar
lander had an onboard computer; ditto the S1B booster. I bet they
simulated a lot of stuff.

Yes I played moon landing game on a PET2000 computah, it had a cassette drive for the program:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET

OTOH, Von Braun was a bottom up man,
he started as kid playing with rockets, he and his German crew knew everything there was to know,
and that is the only reason it worked, his brain, his neural net,
no simulations.
Basic math.
It is always interactive, his first satellite was too high up....
he forgot to account for the rotation of the earth to give that extra push IIRC.


There is a large number of companies that try to sell C++ compilers and simulators and what not,
kids (say students) - are indoctrinated with it.
And where does it go? Not even to the ISS.
Inferior color system in the US, most decisions politically based, if not all.

The first people who invent things generally don't do it the best way.
Copiers can improve it.

Copiers do, and copiers have been improved too
First there was Japan making better cameras (where is Kodak), now China is making better things,
look at their fighter jets, those really fly, unlike the F35
that is slimulated.


Bloatware no end, quad cores to read your email.

Most people now use small ARM chips and Linux in phones and tablets. I
like massive CPU horsepower and gigabytes of fast DRAM for simulation.

Many if not most high end tablets have quad cores these days.


Side effect of capitalism I guess, production of ever more crap.
It WILL collapse.

Probably not. Some mass virus, like ebola or something, could be
nasty. Or a comet, or a big volcano. But economics will muddle along.

I could imagine people turning against engineering, burning engineers like witches.

So far, geeks are hot stuff. Gone are the days when nerdy guys lost
the girls to jocks. You should see Dolores Park on a sunny weekend
afternoon.

It does not take much to change group consciousness, create some sort of hysteria.
You see them attacking ebola doctors now, and right they are!
Them clueless doctors are spreading it all over the globe, big farma sees an opportunity
to push an other global vaccine down peoples throats.


People are buying less crap. TVs last a long time and are good enough.
Ditto cars.

The old TV standard lasted many many years, then a short period of color using the same H and V frequencies,
then digital, now DVB-S2 here, not to mention DVB-T, and even a new standard is in the making (better encryption too I think).

Conventional TV will soon die. The cable and satellite companies will
just transport Internet traffic. Everything will be digital,
watch-anytime, mostly commercial-free.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-19, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

Now if we only had those figures for other species, we could compute the
air speed velocity of a laden swallow. ("African or European swallow,"
you ask...)

Actually, I'm more puzzled about what an "air speed velocity" might be.

It can only be a quote from MPQHG

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-09-19, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:32:07 -0500, ChesterW <iamsnoozin@yahoo.com
wrote:

Anyway, I make your 155.52 MHz oscillator with 0.2 ps rms jitter as
containing 15.0 bits of information. When it degrades to 12.7 bits
you're on the edge of your 1 ps error budget. That and how fast it
degrades should set the performance requirements on the feedback loop.

ChesterW


Seems to me that more modulation of a sine wave carries more
information, not less.

Does a perfect sine wave convey an infinite amount of information?

yes, frequency, amplitude, and phase to infinite precision.

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Kevin Aylward]

"Tom Swift" wrote in message
news:XnsA3AEF3DE3DB24idtokenpost@69.16.179.23...

So, Tom Swift, when did you get back from Mars?

dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

Mail me at my posted address (it's good), and I'll send you the
articles.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Thanks very much for the articles. I think he is using the wrong approach
to calculate the reduction in crystal Q. Transistor hFe is the DC current
gain, not the gain at HF or VHF. It is cerainly not 100 with those
transistors. Also I'm not sure about putting the crystal in series with
the emitter. Using the grounded-base emitter impedance is a poor idea in
my view. The series capacitors used in the Colpitts or Clapp would be
much lower and much more repeatable.

I haven't seen this paper, you could send it to me and I can give my 2 cents
worth.

But it is still interesting to see how circuits were designed in the days
before LTspice.

In reality though, LTSpice is useless for low phase noise design. A
professional level RF tool such as Cadence or Agilent is the only realistic
way to to it. Periodic steady state phase noise is mandatory.

I say this from, literally, running 10,000s oscillator phase noise
simulations over the last 5 years. Phase noise tools, spit out exactly what
component is contributing what noise, allowing you to figure out what needs
to be changed. Manual calculations are, essentially, impossible, e.g.
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/phasenoise/phasenoise.html

Example, I looked at the Wenzel oscillator
http://crovencrystals.com/applications/clockosc.htm referenced in this
thread. There is standard product out there that does better than -170dBc
noise floor for the oscillator and -165dBc after the limiter.

Teaser - in the clockosc.htm, the close in noise is not mentioned, why does
the method shown of connecting the limiter to the oscillator severely
degrade the close in phase noise? Hint: failure of Hajimiri-Lee method
discussed in phasenoise.html above.

Correct answer gets a free SuperPSice licence

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice

 

On Saturday, September 20, 2014 10:11:25 PM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 20/09/14 14:58, dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Friday, September 19, 2014 2:44:55 PM UTC-4, Kevin Aylward wrote:

dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:

http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/phasenoise/PhaseNoiseTutorial.xht

The tutorial looks promising, but the equations are rendered as
ASCII integers.

Open it in Firefox or Safari, or some other browser that supports MathML
(not Google Chrome).

Thanks, that fixes it.

Cheers,
James Arthur