PIR interfering with wireless network

[Peter Hucker]

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

If you're cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right?

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com>
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound where
she sits.

JF

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays multifunction?

Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring surely?

The effect is as such: within about 2-3 metres the network is unusable. The next 2-3 metres it works most of the time. After that it's almost perfect.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Financial Retirement Plan:
If you had purchased $1000.00 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00.
With Enron, you would have had $16.50 left of the original $1,000.00.
With WorldCom, you would have had less than $5.00 left.
But, if you had purchased $1,000.00 worth of Beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the cans for the aluminium recycling refund, you would have had $214.00.
Based on the above, current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:29:33 -0000, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 31, 4:20 am, "Peter Hucker" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?


You can now get ones that use microwave detection as well as PIR, they
are called "Dual PIR" sensors:
http://www.ness.com.au/ViewProduct.asp?ProductNumber=100-210
10.5GHz for the microwave

A normal PIR sensor would not cause any issues like this as they are
passive.

You can simply swap a Dual PIR for a normal PIR no probems.

Good point, I'll just tell them to put in a passive in any rooms with problems if I can prove it's that.

We've always had detectors though and never had problems, so maybe it's faulty? Or the new ones are on a different band. If it's using 2.4GHz, in my opinion it's wrong. Using the same band as wireless networks in an office is just plain stupid.

Sensors only need a 4 conductor cable, two for power (12V), two for the
contact.

Odd that they left a bit of approx 10 core cable then (and that was the only thing they were fitting at the time). Unless it uses a different core for each type of detection?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A very shy guy goes into a bar and sees a beautiful woman sitting at the bar. After an hour of gathering up his courage, he finally goes over to her and asks, tentatively, "Um, would you mind if I chatted with you for a while?" To which she responds by yelling, at the top of her lungs, "No, I won't sleep with you tonight!"
Everyone in the bar is now staring at them. Naturally, the guy is hopelessly and completely embarrassed and he slinks back to his table.
After a few minutes, the woman walks over to him and apologizes. She smiles at him and says, "I'm sorry if I embarrassed you. You see, I'm a graduate student in psychology and I'm studying how people respond to embarrassing situations."
To which he responds, at the top of his lungs, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN, $200?"

 

[David L. Jones]

On Jan 31, 4:20 am, "Peter Hucker" <n...@spam.com> wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10 cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets. PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with wireless networking?

You can now get ones that use microwave detection as well as PIR, they
are called "Dual PIR" sensors:
http://www.ness.com.au/ViewProduct.asp?ProductNumber=100-210
10.5GHz for the microwave

A normal PIR sensor would not cause any issues like this as they are
passive.

You can simply swap a Dual PIR for a normal PIR no probems. Sensors
only need a 4 conductor cable, two for power (12V), two for the
contact.

Dave.

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---

Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF

 

[ABLE1]

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor. The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature change that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm. This is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the detector is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel and see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same time of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the range in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---


Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF

 

[Peter Hucker]

I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told him to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing that problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was on the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon as he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher than 2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical, but only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and was oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for no apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with older laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There is only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor. The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature change that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm. This is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the detector is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel and see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same time of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the range in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---


Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:07:06 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about 10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.

Force of habit, as that's all they used to be.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

During her annual checkup, the well-constructed miss was asked to disrobe and climb onto the examining table.
"Doctor," she replied shyly, "I just can't undress in front of you."
"All right," said the physician, "I'll flick off the lights. You undress and tell me when you're through."
In a few moments, her voice rang out in the darkness: "Doctor, I've undressed. What shall I do with my clothes?"
"Put them on the chair, on top of mine."

 

[ABLE1]

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have never
thought of that one.

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London. Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical, but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm. This is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same time of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them
in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as
I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about
10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the
signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there
were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of
packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out
a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the
sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---


Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound
where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring
surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.

 

[John Fields]

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:41:59 -0500, "ABLE1" <royboynospam@somewhere.net>
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have never
thought of that one.

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London. Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les

---
This is USENET, not email.

Please bottom post or, when appropriate, inline post.

JF

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in the same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away. I suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one office showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such a thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London. Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical, but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm. This is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same time of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of them
in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know, as
I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about
10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the
signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there
were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk, and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped. Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of
packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending out
a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the
sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---


Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound
where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring
surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you drive".

 

[ABLE1]

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away. I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London. Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told
him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing
that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon
as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher
than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical,
but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for
no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There
is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside
the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm. This
is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the
detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel
and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same time
of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the
range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off
massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:20:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

We have a wireless network at work which appears to have gone
downhill
since the workmen installed PIRs for the burglar alarm. One of
them
in
particular appears to cause dropped packets the closer a laptop is
to
it. Is this possible?? It's not a wireless PIR as far as I know,
as
I
can see some leftover cable he was using which is a multicore (about
10
cores) type similar to phone systems, so I assume this is for the
signal
aswell as power. The person in that office swears blind that there
were
absolutely no problems until the PIR was installed above her desk,
and
now when I check, about 60% of the packets are being dropped.
Moving
her laptop to the opposite side of the room it drops only 5% of
packets.
PIRs used to just pick up infrared of your bodyheat, but I think now
they are also motion sensors? Perhaps this means they are sending
out
a
signal and bouncing it off you? Perhaps this could interfere with
wireless networking?

---
If its PIR it shouln't.

PIR is Passive Infra Red, and it's body heat which triggers the
sensor,
not anthing the device transmits.

http://www.glolab.com./pirparts/pirmanual.PDF

I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---


Maybe the wiring is affecting the strength of the RF field areound
where
she sits.

The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring
surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I
said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you
drive".

Good Show!!!

 

[Peter Hucker]

I cannot locate whsat you've written.




On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:17:51 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away. I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London. Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told
him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing
that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon
as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher
than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical,
but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for
no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There
is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside
the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm. This
is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the
detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel
and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same time
of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the
range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off
massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:



I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---




The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring
surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I
said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you
drive".








































Good Show!!!

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman walks into a drugstore and asks the pharmacist if he sells size extra large condoms.
He replies, "Yes we do. Would you like to buy some?"
She responds, "No, but do you mind if I wait around here until someone does?

 

[ABLE1]

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uov9vsfd4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

I cannot locate whsat you've written.

That is because I have followed USENET protocol and bottom posted as I

was instructed to do so in such a nice way. Have a good day.

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:17:51 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away. I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one
office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for
the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London.
Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told
him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing
that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was
on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon
as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher
than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical,
but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and
was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for
no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with
older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There
is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going
on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside
the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature
change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm.
This
is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the
detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel
and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing
the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same
time
of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the
range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off
massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot
be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the
pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any
confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:44:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 20:18:14 -0000, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:



I'm not sure if it's PIR or not. Aren't a lot of them nowadays
multifunction?

---
Dunno; you were the one who tagged it as PIR.
---




The wiring? It shouldn't have that strong a field from its wiring
surely?

---
I didn't say the wiring was responsible for generating the field, I
said
it might have an _effect_ on the [already existing] field.

JF






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you
drive".








































Good Show!!!






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman walks into a drugstore and asks the pharmacist if he sells size
extra large condoms.
He replies, "Yes we do. Would you like to buy some?"
She responds, "No, but do you mind if I wait around here until someone
does?

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:24:14 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uov9vsfd4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I cannot locate whsat you've written.

That is because I have followed USENET protocol and bottom posted as I
was instructed to do so in such a nice way. Have a good day.

I usually bottom post aswell, unless the thread has already been top posted, in which case I continue at the top to make it neater.

I didn't see your reply as it was after my sig. You didn't follow the sig seperator snip guideline

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:17:51 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away. I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one
office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for
the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London.
Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and told
him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be causing
that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was
on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as soon
as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially higher
than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look identical,
but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and
was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels for
no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with
older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing. There
is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going
on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or outside
the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature
change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm.
This
is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the
detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the panel
and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing
the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same
time
of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the
range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off
massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that cannot
be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the
pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any
confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...











--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you
drive".








































Good Show!!!






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman walks into a drugstore and asks the pharmacist if he sells size
extra large condoms.
He replies, "Yes we do. Would you like to buy some?"
She responds, "No, but do you mind if I wait around here until someone
does?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is it that when you transport something by car, it's called a shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it's called cargo?

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:22:11 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:41:59 -0500, "ABLE1" <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have never
thought of that one.

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London. Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les

---
This is USENET, not email.

Please bottom post or, when appropriate, inline post.

JF

Why do you say "not email"? It annoys me when people top post in email aswell. Email discussions often end with a few topics within them, then top posting just gets confusing.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

In the UK, 90% of things are prohibited. The other 10% are compulsory.

 

[ABLE1]

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uox20xc74buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:24:14 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uov9vsfd4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I cannot locate whsat you've written.

That is because I have followed USENET protocol and bottom posted as I
was instructed to do so in such a nice way. Have a good day.

I usually bottom post aswell, unless the thread has already been top
posted, in which case I continue at the top to make it neater.

I didn't see your reply as it was after my sig. You didn't follow the sig
seperator snip guideline

Just breaking all the rules..................................... one at a
time ..........

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:17:51 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in
the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away.
I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one
office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such
a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for
the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize
the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London.
Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I covered it with a biscuit tin lid today, and the problem
immediately
vanished. I happend to spot a workman installing more of them and
told
him
to remove it. He said therew as absolutely no way it could be
causing
that
problem, but I persuaded him to remove it while a continuous ping was
on
the screen of a wireless laptop. It could clearly be seen that as
soon
as
he unplugged it, everything worked, and when he put it back, packets
disappeared. He told me it used microwaves, but couldn't tell me the
frequency (although he thought it was meant to be substantially
higher
than
2.4GHz). All of the detectors throughout the building look
identical,
but
only this one appeared to cause problems. Perhaps it was faulty and
was
oscillating at half the correct frequency?

The whole of the new corridor still hates higher numbered channels
for
no
apparent reason. Channel 1 works perfectly, channel 6 works with
older
laptops but not new ones(?!) and channel 11 works with nothing.
There
is
only that one transmitter in range there, so who knows what's going
on!


On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:24 -0000, ABLE1
royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Ok, I have been reading this thread with great amusement.

A couple of things to clear up. A PIR motion detector is a Passive
Infrared
detector that detects movement in a space based upon focused
infrared
temperature changes thru a Fresnel Lens of an object in front of
the
detector. It cannot detect thru walls or glass.

A "Dual-Tech" Motion Detector uses two(dual) technologies to detect
motion
or movement in a space. It uses a PIR sensor and a Microwave
sensor.
The
microwave sends out pulses of microwave energy into the space if
the
return
signals change due to a person/object moving in the space (or
outside
the
space because it can see thru walls) and there is a temperature
change
that
has been detected by the PIR at the same time there is an alarm.
This
is
less false alarm prone than the simple PIR.

All that being said the simple way to prove or disprove that the
detector
is
causing the problem is get the security tech to power down the
panel
and
see
what happens.

My guess is that something else other than the detector is causing
the
problem and it is just a coincidence that it happened at the same
time
of
the install. It would be my guess that one of the following is the
cause.

1) The transceiver was moved from its original position and the
range
in
this area was modified.

2) Some metal object has been moved/placed at a point that is
deflecting
the signal.

3) A fluorescent light bulb/ballast is failing and giving off
massive
amount of RFI causing the interference.

4) Sun Spots are reaching a peak in your area.

5) The earth magnetic field has been modified in ways that
cannot
be
fully explained. i.e. Government Plot!!!

5) All of the above.

6) Other

I have used the KISS method in the above description to ease the
pain.
Some error in wording may be found. Whoops!!! Sorry for any
confusion.

Hope that helps you to find your problem. Wireless is never
perfect.

Good luck and have a nice day.

Les













"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:ltp8o4lkjp245bq5tkpdaqjbnas0eknqe1@4ax.com...











--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

What comes after 69?
Mouthwash.






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you
drive".








































Good Show!!!






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman walks into a drugstore and asks the pharmacist if he sells size
extra large condoms.
He replies, "Yes we do. Would you like to buy some?"
She responds, "No, but do you mind if I wait around here until someone
does?






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is it that when you transport something by car, it's called a
shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it's called cargo?

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:25:48 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net> wrote:

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uox20xc74buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:24:14 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uov9vsfd4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I cannot locate whsat you've written.

That is because I have followed USENET protocol and bottom posted as I
was instructed to do so in such a nice way. Have a good day.

I usually bottom post aswell, unless the thread has already been top
posted, in which case I continue at the top to make it neater.

I didn't see your reply as it was after my sig. You didn't follow the sig
seperator snip guideline


Just breaking all the rules..................................... one at a
time ..........

Why limit yourself?

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:17:51 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in
the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away.
I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one
office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen such
a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference for
the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize
the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London.
Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...













--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you
drive".








































Good Show!!!






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman walks into a drugstore and asks the pharmacist if he sells size
extra large condoms.
He replies, "Yes we do. Would you like to buy some?"
She responds, "No, but do you mind if I wait around here until someone
does?






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is it that when you transport something by car, it's called a
shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it's called cargo?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she were a dustcart reversing.

 

[ABLE1]

"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoz0rfzv4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:25:48 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uox20xc74buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:24:14 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uov9vsfd4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
I cannot locate whsat you've written.

That is because I have followed USENET protocol and bottom posted as
I
was instructed to do so in such a nice way. Have a good day.

I usually bottom post aswell, unless the thread has already been top
posted, in which case I continue at the top to make it neater.

I didn't see your reply as it was after my sig. You didn't follow the
sig
seperator snip guideline


Just breaking all the rules..................................... one at a
time ..........

Making it last longer gives more satisfaction. So many rules too little
time.

Why limit yourself?

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:17:51 -0000, ABLE1 <royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:


"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uouhiyua4buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:41:59 -0000, ABLE1
royboynospam@somewhere.net
wrote:

Very interesting!!!! Golly good show on the biscuit tin. Would
have
never
thought of that one.

I can't take credit for it. It was suggested in this thread (or in
the
same thread in some other groups).

It would be interesting to do one or both of the following.

Replace the offensive unit first with another of the same model.

They replaced it with an identical model, and the problem went away.
I
suspected it might as they had put one in every office and only one
office
showed problems. The installer was bewildered and had never seen
such
a
thing before.

Replace the offensive unit with another manufactures dual tech
model.

Do your same evaluation on each and see if there is a difference
for
the
better or for the worse. As a back up plan have someone authorize
the
install a high end PIR only unit.

On a lighter note this could be the reason for the snow in London.
Some
days you just never know what is going to happen next.

I certainly hope that someone is not jerking a chain as it were.

Good luck.

Les





"Peter Hucker" <none@spam.com> wrote in message
newsp.uoqtgb024buhsv@fx62.mshome.net...













--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns,
you
drive".








































Good Show!!!






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A woman walks into a drugstore and asks the pharmacist if he sells
size
extra large condoms.
He replies, "Yes we do. Would you like to buy some?"
She responds, "No, but do you mind if I wait around here until someone
does?






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

Why is it that when you transport something by car, it's called a
shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it's called cargo?






--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if
she were a dustcart reversing.