J
John Fields
Guest
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:50:17 -0800, "JosephKK"<quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Thank you very much!
JF
wrote:
---
Thank you very much!
JF
M
Malcolm Moore
Guest
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:29:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
<begin paste of original response>
<Jan originally posted>
Why don't the likes of Raveninghorde & yourself ever check the
material you find and post.
Ian Wishart is not a professor. A google or wikipedia search would
have quickly revealed that.
He is a journalist/publisher who inhabits the conspiracy theory end of
the publishing world.
A review of Air Con is at
http://hot-topic.co.nz/somethin%E2%80%99-stupid/
That review led in part to
http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/08/air-con-author-preparing-to-sue-herald-and-hot-topic.html
the threatened legal action has not eventuated.
I took a stab in the middle of that youtube video. After referring to
claims of melting icecaps, he's talking about possible sea level rise
and how the landscape behind him used to be at the bottom of the ocean
and is now 100m above, and CO2 has had nothing to do with that. That's
entirely correct, what he doesn't mention is that the landscape is in
New Zealand and it has uplifted due to tectonic plate movement,
nothing to do with sea level change due to changing amounts of water
stored as ice.
Perhaps the conspiracy is coming from your favoured sources, but I've
always preferred the saying about not atributing to conspiracy that
which can more simply be explained by stupidity.
<end paste>.
If you can't be bothered reading the review of his book linked above,
here's a short excerpt that quotes a passage from the book;
<begin quote>
Consider the mental space occupied by someone who is willing to write,
publish and promote this (p247):
What they [wild greens] really mean is that they want ordinary
families and kids to become extinct, leaving space for the Green elite
to run the planet and enjoy exclusive bird-watching excursions while
feasting on the bones of six year olds whod earlier been sold to
Asian brothels."
<end quote>
Sheesh!
certainly doesn't have.
No, it won't make a difference to temperatures,
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/climate-change-emails-stop-glaciers-from-melting-200911252254/
but it does make a difference to public perception, which is important
where politics is involved.
I applaud your dislike of lying, please post a correction to us.p and
the cross posted groups.
--
Regards
Malcolm
Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ok, here's the relevant part of that post again.
<begin paste of original response>
<Jan originally posted>
<I replied>
Why don't the likes of Raveninghorde & yourself ever check the
material you find and post.
Ian Wishart is not a professor. A google or wikipedia search would
have quickly revealed that.
He is a journalist/publisher who inhabits the conspiracy theory end of
the publishing world.
A review of Air Con is at
http://hot-topic.co.nz/somethin%E2%80%99-stupid/
That review led in part to
http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/08/air-con-author-preparing-to-sue-herald-and-hot-topic.html
the threatened legal action has not eventuated.
I took a stab in the middle of that youtube video. After referring to
claims of melting icecaps, he's talking about possible sea level rise
and how the landscape behind him used to be at the bottom of the ocean
and is now 100m above, and CO2 has had nothing to do with that. That's
entirely correct, what he doesn't mention is that the landscape is in
New Zealand and it has uplifted due to tectonic plate movement,
nothing to do with sea level change due to changing amounts of water
stored as ice.
Perhaps the conspiracy is coming from your favoured sources, but I've
always preferred the saying about not atributing to conspiracy that
which can more simply be explained by stupidity.
<end paste>.
If you can't be bothered reading the review of his book linked above,
here's a short excerpt that quotes a passage from the book;
<begin quote>
Consider the mental space occupied by someone who is willing to write,
publish and promote this (p247):
What they [wild greens] really mean is that they want ordinary
families and kids to become extinct, leaving space for the Green elite
to run the planet and enjoy exclusive bird-watching excursions while
feasting on the bones of six year olds whod earlier been sold to
Asian brothels."
<end quote>
Sheesh!
Describing him as a professor is an appeal to credibility he most
certainly doesn't have.
No, it won't make a difference to temperatures,
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/climate-change-emails-stop-glaciers-from-melting-200911252254/
but it does make a difference to public perception, which is important
where politics is involved.
I applaud your dislike of lying, please post a correction to us.p and
the cross posted groups.
--
Regards
Malcolm
Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address
J
Jon Kirwan
Guest
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:51:23 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
"George really doesn't understand the concept of process threads or
delta queue mechanisms. I've tried to explain them and he's got some
kind of mental block I've failed to get past. No fault to him and
he's doing fine elsewhere, but I need to take this task so we can stay
on schedule. Can you think of a way that he'll feel affirmed in the
other tasks he's handling well and somehow get him to suggest giving
this task away on his own... or perhaps offer something else he may
want and can handle well?"
I certainly don't want this written down "in the public record."
That may be some of the kind of communication is what I'm talking
about. It's necessary communication, sometimes. But it isn't "in
band" communication I want randomly and ignorantly tossed out into a
public forum with no particular audience in mind. That's for sure.
Of course, there is more private messages that are entirely private
and have nothing to do with the work in hand. And those should
definitely NOT be mixed up with business communications. Which is why
I tried to think of a realistic example of a communication that may be
important, business-wise, yet not something I want grabbed up by some
hacker and thrust into the public like a pile of garbage and no
context at all.
Jon
wrote:
I'm talking about off-the-cuff commentary, of course. For example,Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:56:35 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:47:48 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
[...]
As I said, though, these are people like you and me.
Granted, many of them will be. But some clearly are not. I am quite
concerned when statements like in those emails are coming from people
higher up in the pecking order of an organization that is supposed to
work for the common good.
I have seen it too many times that something leaked from an
organization, it was said "oh, it's just very few bad apples" and then
an investigation found a huge morass. I hope that's not so in this case
but I believe an investigation is most certainly in order at this point.
I'll leave it here. I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ...
Both.
I suspect the same as you. But at least I hope someone tries to find out
whether or not data has been "cooked".
... If the people, I suspect you will have it -- there is no
escaping that some folks in positions of power will use the event and
others will provide cover for themselves by staying out of the way. If
the science, then it will be active climate scientists who must do
that. And I don't think you will be satisfied there.
Now that things hit the fan, their arms are twisted and they can't
possibly dodge FOI the guys from the other side of the fence will have
access and that's a very good thing. So I might be satisfied
Well, lawyers will have fun. But the communications will probably go
as you expected, now that yet another object lesson has been learned
-- they will use phone calls and private, out-of-band communications.
If I were active in this field, aware as I am of the divisiveness and
disingenuous behavior that surrounds these activities, I'd be
exclusively using public-key encryption and phone conversations for
anything other than official communications and publishable works and
regularly using disk-scrubbing (or a ball-peened hammer to beat it to
death) on my hard disks, routinely.
Regarding personal communications with my defenses down and being
frank with others, I'd act like I was asked to act when working for
Lockheed on highly specialized secret projects -- things go in to a
room or computer, but absolutely nothing leaves without being turned
to dust and useless rubble. Period.
Except that you can't work like at Lockheed when in a taxpayer-funded
ivory tower. Sure, one can use phones or at least private email. There
have to be meeting minutes and all sorts of other traceable things. I've
worked in medical most of my life and there you cannot hide a thing. And
I never did. For example, if an FDA probe would find an email answer to
an issue but the email with the questions is nowhere to be found da big
red flag would be raised.
"George really doesn't understand the concept of process threads or
delta queue mechanisms. I've tried to explain them and he's got some
kind of mental block I've failed to get past. No fault to him and
he's doing fine elsewhere, but I need to take this task so we can stay
on schedule. Can you think of a way that he'll feel affirmed in the
other tasks he's handling well and somehow get him to suggest giving
this task away on his own... or perhaps offer something else he may
want and can handle well?"
I certainly don't want this written down "in the public record."
That may be some of the kind of communication is what I'm talking
about. It's necessary communication, sometimes. But it isn't "in
band" communication I want randomly and ignorantly tossed out into a
public forum with no particular audience in mind. That's for sure.
Of course, there is more private messages that are entirely private
and have nothing to do with the work in hand. And those should
definitely NOT be mixed up with business communications. Which is why
I tried to think of a realistic example of a communication that may be
important, business-wise, yet not something I want grabbed up by some
hacker and thrust into the public like a pile of garbage and no
context at all.
Jon
B
Bill Sloman
Guest
On Dec 2, 8:50 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
could demonstrate that what he proposed wouldn't work in a simpler and
more comprehensive way that you were doing.
place, there's no point in worrying about the topology of the winding
that might have reacted to the flux change if there had been any.
active conductors. That's what I said.
Topologically speaking, this is perfectly correct, and - since it
mimics the wording of Joel Koltner's original comical suggestion - it
reiterates Joel Koltner's original joke. You seem to have mssed this.
You have got it into your head that the form if words that I used
doesn't preclude the idea that I though that a clamp on meter was a
kind of solenoid, but this falls a long way short of establishig that
I harboured this particular delusion. For what it's worth, I can't
actually remember when I had the ahha! moment for clamp-on meters, but
I think it was before 1980.
merely illustrates that you have been letting your imagination range
way outside the bounds of probability. I think I commented at the time
that it wasn't clear what on earth you had actually done, and I
certainly wasn't sufficiently interested to put any effort into trying
and to work out what you had been doing, apart from barking up the
wrong tree.
of implausible and untestable hypotheses.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
You missed the point. By taking what Joel Koltner actually said, I
could demonstrate that what he proposed wouldn't work in a simpler and
more comprehensive way that you were doing.
I didn't have to. If there's no external flux to change in the first
place, there's no point in worrying about the topology of the winding
that might have reacted to the flux change if there had been any.
The toroidal core in a clamp-on meter *is* wrapped around one of the
active conductors. That's what I said.
Topologically speaking, this is perfectly correct, and - since it
mimics the wording of Joel Koltner's original comical suggestion - it
reiterates Joel Koltner's original joke. You seem to have mssed this.
You have got it into your head that the form if words that I used
doesn't preclude the idea that I though that a clamp on meter was a
kind of solenoid, but this falls a long way short of establishig that
I harboured this particular delusion. For what it's worth, I can't
actually remember when I had the ahha! moment for clamp-on meters, but
I think it was before 1980.
Since I never bothered to digest the meaning of your experiment, this
merely illustrates that you have been letting your imagination range
way outside the bounds of probability. I think I commented at the time
that it wasn't clear what on earth you had actually done, and I
certainly wasn't sufficiently interested to put any effort into trying
and to work out what you had been doing, apart from barking up the
wrong tree.
More like an insight into the thought processes of John Fields, source
of implausible and untestable hypotheses.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
B
Bill Sloman
Guest
On Dec 2, 6:56 am, mzen...@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:
tobacco industry tactics are also being used by polluters dealing in
"asbestos, lead, plastics, and many other toxic materials".
I'll have to get myself a copy, not that I'm suffering any shortage of
windmills to tilt at.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Looks like an interesting book. I'm depressed to realise that the
tobacco industry tactics are also being used by polluters dealing in
"asbestos, lead, plastics, and many other toxic materials".
I'll have to get myself a copy, not that I'm suffering any shortage of
windmills to tilt at.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
B
Bill Sloman
Guest
On Dec 2, 4:57 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
because I thought that a solenoid would work (which is the delusion
that you have been trying to foist on me), but because the way Joel
Koltner actually worded his joke precluded there being any external
field for anything to work on.
My explanation trumped yours, becaase I'd paid attention to what Joel
Koltner actually said, an example you should have followed, rather
than getting excited about what I hadn't said.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
I never said anything about whether a solenoid would work or not - not
because I thought that a solenoid would work (which is the delusion
that you have been trying to foist on me), but because the way Joel
Koltner actually worded his joke precluded there being any external
field for anything to work on.
My explanation trumped yours, becaase I'd paid attention to what Joel
Koltner actually said, an example you should have followed, rather
than getting excited about what I hadn't said.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
J
Jon Kirwan
Guest
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
Jon
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
Jon
J
Joerg
Guest
Jon Kirwan wrote:
<scratching head>
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
<scratching head>
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
J
Jon Kirwan
Guest
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
Jon
wrote:
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
Jon
J
Joerg
Guest
Jon Kirwan wrote:
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Yeah, but your link is about Georgia's house speaker resigning. That'sOn Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
That's pretty old news there.
No, just what is it that happened where your said it probably would
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
J
Jon Kirwan
Guest
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:57:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
know where that darned thing came from!! My apologies.
Try:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/climate-docs-lead-to-investigations-at-cru-penn-state.ars
Jon
wrote:
Thanks, Joerg. Somehow I got the wrong link, I think. I don't evenJon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
Yeah, but your link is about Georgia's house speaker resigning. That's
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
That's pretty old news there.
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
No, just what is it that happened where your said it probably would
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
know where that darned thing came from!! My apologies.
Try:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/climate-docs-lead-to-investigations-at-cru-penn-state.ars
Jon
J
Joerg
Guest
Jon Kirwan wrote:
new, some of it was actually printed in our rather liberal-leaning daily
(Sacramento Bee). But only as a little news flash tucked away somewhere.
As your article said, scientific reviews can drone on forever. However,
now that the stuff has leaked out policy makers will likely tread a lot
more careful when it comes to AGW-related measures. Because they must
keep in mind what their constituent's opinions are, no matter whether
justified or not. And there has been a change, big time.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Thanks for the new link. However, the information in there isn't totallyOn Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:57:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
Yeah, but your link is about Georgia's house speaker resigning. That's
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
That's pretty old news there.
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
No, just what is it that happened where your said it probably would
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
Thanks, Joerg. Somehow I got the wrong link, I think. I don't even
know where that darned thing came from!! My apologies.
Try:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/climate-docs-lead-to-investigations-at-cru-penn-state.ars
new, some of it was actually printed in our rather liberal-leaning daily
(Sacramento Bee). But only as a little news flash tucked away somewhere.
As your article said, scientific reviews can drone on forever. However,
now that the stuff has leaked out policy makers will likely tread a lot
more careful when it comes to AGW-related measures. Because they must
keep in mind what their constituent's opinions are, no matter whether
justified or not. And there has been a change, big time.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
J
Jon Kirwan
Guest
On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:12:00 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
And started quite soon.
On the rest, as with ANY policy issue in a democracy, politicians must
deal with public opinion. That goes without saying. Doesn't change
physics, but where the gas pedal is ultimately held affects whether or
not an impending car crash into the proverbial brick wall happens at
120 kph or 10 kph. A lot more is often learned by smashing things up,
I admit, than not. It's going to be interesting and educational,
if perhaps a bit unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more
of what should have been. (Can the last half of that last sentence
even be expressed in German? hehe. I am struggling with how.
Jon
wrote:
I merely thought an investigation on the one hand was likely. It was.Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:57:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
Yeah, but your link is about Georgia's house speaker resigning. That's
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
That's pretty old news there.
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
No, just what is it that happened where your said it probably would
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
Thanks, Joerg. Somehow I got the wrong link, I think. I don't even
know where that darned thing came from!! My apologies.
Try:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/climate-docs-lead-to-investigations-at-cru-penn-state.ars
Thanks for the new link. However, the information in there isn't totally
new, some of it was actually printed in our rather liberal-leaning daily
(Sacramento Bee). But only as a little news flash tucked away somewhere.
As your article said, scientific reviews can drone on forever. However,
now that the stuff has leaked out policy makers will likely tread a lot
more careful when it comes to AGW-related measures. Because they must
keep in mind what their constituent's opinions are, no matter whether
justified or not. And there has been a change, big time.
And started quite soon.
On the rest, as with ANY policy issue in a democracy, politicians must
deal with public opinion. That goes without saying. Doesn't change
physics, but where the gas pedal is ultimately held affects whether or
not an impending car crash into the proverbial brick wall happens at
120 kph or 10 kph. A lot more is often learned by smashing things up,
I admit, than not.
It's going to be interesting and educational,if perhaps a bit unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more
of what should have been. (Can the last half of that last sentence
even be expressed in German? hehe. I am struggling with how.
Jon
J
Joerg
Guest
Jon Kirwan wrote:
rug.
einige interessant und lehrreich, vielleicht ein wenig unangenehm sein,
wenn zuviel unterlassen als mehr von dem getan wird, was haette getan
werden sollen.
Ok, can't do the umlauts on this here computation machine. Sounds almost
like an IEEE publication where complicated sentence structures are often
"en vogue". More often than not ...
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
It had to. Too much visible egg in the faces to sweep this one under theOn Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:12:00 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:57:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
Yeah, but your link is about Georgia's house speaker resigning. That's
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
That's pretty old news there.
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
No, just what is it that happened where your said it probably would
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
Thanks, Joerg. Somehow I got the wrong link, I think. I don't even
know where that darned thing came from!! My apologies.
Try:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/climate-docs-lead-to-investigations-at-cru-penn-state.ars
Thanks for the new link. However, the information in there isn't totally
new, some of it was actually printed in our rather liberal-leaning daily
(Sacramento Bee). But only as a little news flash tucked away somewhere.
As your article said, scientific reviews can drone on forever. However,
now that the stuff has leaked out policy makers will likely tread a lot
more careful when it comes to AGW-related measures. Because they must
keep in mind what their constituent's opinions are, no matter whether
justified or not. And there has been a change, big time.
I merely thought an investigation on the one hand was likely. It was.
And started quite soon.
rug.
You it can be, the whole sentence would sound like this: Es wird fuerOn the rest, as with ANY policy issue in a democracy, politicians must
deal with public opinion. That goes without saying. Doesn't change
physics, but where the gas pedal is ultimately held affects whether or
not an impending car crash into the proverbial brick wall happens at
120 kph or 10 kph. A lot more is often learned by smashing things up,
I admit, than not.
if perhaps a bit unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more
of what should have been. (Can the last half of that last sentence
even be expressed in German? hehe. I am struggling with how.
einige interessant und lehrreich, vielleicht ein wenig unangenehm sein,
wenn zuviel unterlassen als mehr von dem getan wird, was haette getan
werden sollen.
Ok, can't do the umlauts on this here computation machine. Sounds almost
like an IEEE publication where complicated sentence structures are often
"en vogue". More often than not ...
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
J
John Larkin
Guest
It's snowing in Houston:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl//6750042.html
John
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl//6750042.html
John
J
Jon Kirwan
Guest
On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:01:58 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
year german. But that last part... I might cobble up something
similar if I struggled, tossing stuff to the end and attempting
conjugations. But I'm sure whatever I made would have the order or
some other facet wrong... so I couldn't correctly produce it!!
I appreciate the helpful hand, here.
(not all of these are used in German, are they?):
near the screen. I think there is also free software that will do
this stuff, fancier, on an English keyboard. But it is just another
tool you have to drag around onto other machines, so I don't bother
with the stuff.
Jon
wrote:
Thanks, Jörg. Adjectives like lehrreich and interessant are firstJon Kirwan wrote:
On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:12:00 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:57:44 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:28:30 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid
wrote:
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:16:02 -0800, I wrote:
JK: "I don't know what you'd hope to achieve, either
way. An investigation to investigate what, exactly? The people or
the science? ..."
Joerg: "Both."
JK: "
Well, there it is... as I said would probably happen:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqu3xuECR-sjSZpzuNRssHo7fs2wD9CC31SO0
I had figured it would be about this quick.
But what does he have to do with the leaked emails from East Anglia?
scratching head
I'm scratching my head, too. This is the "University of East Anglia"
which is at Norwich, UK, as I understand it. The Climatic Research
Unit (CRU) we talked about earlier is there, isn't it?
Yeah, but your link is about Georgia's house speaker resigning. That's
around 4000 miles from Norwich, UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change
That's pretty old news there.
Did I miss something? It's possible. Let me know.
No, just what is it that happened where your said it probably would
happen? Jones stepping down for a while? He almost had to.
Thanks, Joerg. Somehow I got the wrong link, I think. I don't even
know where that darned thing came from!! My apologies.
Try:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/climate-docs-lead-to-investigations-at-cru-penn-state.ars
Thanks for the new link. However, the information in there isn't totally
new, some of it was actually printed in our rather liberal-leaning daily
(Sacramento Bee). But only as a little news flash tucked away somewhere.
As your article said, scientific reviews can drone on forever. However,
now that the stuff has leaked out policy makers will likely tread a lot
more careful when it comes to AGW-related measures. Because they must
keep in mind what their constituent's opinions are, no matter whether
justified or not. And there has been a change, big time.
I merely thought an investigation on the one hand was likely. It was.
And started quite soon.
It had to. Too much visible egg in the faces to sweep this one under the
rug.
On the rest, as with ANY policy issue in a democracy, politicians must
deal with public opinion. That goes without saying. Doesn't change
physics, but where the gas pedal is ultimately held affects whether or
not an impending car crash into the proverbial brick wall happens at
120 kph or 10 kph. A lot more is often learned by smashing things up,
I admit, than not.
if perhaps a bit unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more
of what should have been. (Can the last half of that last sentence
even be expressed in German? hehe. I am struggling with how.
You it can be, the whole sentence would sound like this: Es wird fuer
einige interessant und lehrreich, vielleicht ein wenig unangenehm sein,
wenn zuviel unterlassen als mehr von dem getan wird, was haette getan
werden sollen.
year german. But that last part... I might cobble up something
similar if I struggled, tossing stuff to the end and attempting
conjugations. But I'm sure whatever I made would have the order or
some other facet wrong... so I couldn't correctly produce it!!
I appreciate the helpful hand, here.
Oh, just insert the 'e'. I think the key shortcuts are something likeOk, can't do the umlauts on this here computation machine. Sounds almost
like an IEEE publication where complicated sentence structures are often
"en vogue". More often than not ...
(not all of these are used in German, are they?):
and the umlaut itself is just:
I keep a shorter list of the more useful seven on a piece of tyvek
near the screen. I think there is also free software that will do
this stuff, fancier, on an English keyboard. But it is just another
tool you have to drag around onto other machines, so I don't bother
with the stuff.
Jon
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:48:23 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
<8rpih51nt20mugqo9617kr9spekrkus13e@4ax.com>:
(Movie 'sunshine', spaceship goes to the sun to re-ignite it, to
save humanity, makes a wrong course correction...)
Have stopped it, no time, movie sucks, will view the end later.
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
<8rpih51nt20mugqo9617kr9spekrkus13e@4ax.com>:
Ha, I just saw the captain being melted by a sun flare
(Movie 'sunshine', spaceship goes to the sun to re-ignite it, to
save humanity, makes a wrong course correction...)
Have stopped it, no time, movie sucks, will view the end later.
J
Joerg
Guest
Jon Kirwan wrote:
[umlauts]
few other languages (Hungarian?), not in German.
entry form, IIRC for an address. It shot the application to smittereens.
Shouldn't have happened, was probably sloppily programmed but outside my
influence.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
[umlauts]
Umlaut e, i and y would AFAIK only be used in Turkish, plus probably a
few other languages (Hungarian?), not in German.
I don't do that too often anymore. Once I did it inside some database
entry form, IIRC for an address. It shot the application to smittereens.
Shouldn't have happened, was probably sloppily programmed but outside my
influence.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
C
ChrisQ
Guest
Joerg wrote:
"It is for some interesting and instructive, perhaps, be a little
uncomfortable when too much is being done more than to refrain from what
should have been done"
original:
It's going to be interesting and educational, if perhaps a bit
unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more of what should have
been.
Throw the baby out of the window an orange, or what...
Regards,
Chris
I don't speak german, so put it through google language tools:You it can be, the whole sentence would sound like this: Es wird fuer
einige interessant und lehrreich, vielleicht ein wenig unangenehm sein,
wenn zuviel unterlassen als mehr von dem getan wird, was haette getan
werden sollen.
Ok, can't do the umlauts on this here computation machine. Sounds almost
like an IEEE publication where complicated sentence structures are often
"en vogue". More often than not ...
"It is for some interesting and instructive, perhaps, be a little
uncomfortable when too much is being done more than to refrain from what
should have been done"
original:
It's going to be interesting and educational, if perhaps a bit
unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more of what should have
been.
Throw the baby out of the window an orange, or what
...Regards,
Chris
J
Joerg
Guest
ChrisQ wrote:
into a cyber translator to get them from English to German. They often
contain phrases that are completely unintelligible. Can make your toe
nails curl ;-)
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
You should see some of the catalogs that were obviously just chuckedJoerg wrote:
You it can be, the whole sentence would sound like this: Es wird fuer
einige interessant und lehrreich, vielleicht ein wenig unangenehm
sein, wenn zuviel unterlassen als mehr von dem getan wird, was haette
getan werden sollen.
Ok, can't do the umlauts on this here computation machine. Sounds
almost like an IEEE publication where complicated sentence structures
are often "en vogue". More often than not ...
I don't speak german, so put it through google language tools:
"It is for some interesting and instructive, perhaps, be a little
uncomfortable when too much is being done more than to refrain from what
should have been done"
original:
It's going to be interesting and educational, if perhaps a bit
unpleasant to some if enough less is done than more of what should have
been.
Throw the baby out of the window an orange, or what
into a cyber translator to get them from English to German. They often
contain phrases that are completely unintelligible. Can make your toe
nails curl ;-)
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.