PC or Mac for at- home engineering?

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Bob

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, 1 September 2014 00:35:31 UTC+10, radam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Linux mostly runs on PC's because there are more of them around, and they offer offer about twice the bag for the buck that Mac's do.

The Mac is fine if you need ease of use, but you pay for that ease of use. Linux is a much better operating system than the MAC or Windows offer if you want free (if not all that easy to use) software.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Sunday, August 31, 2014 7:35:31 AM UTC-7, radam...@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

For the price of a Mac, you can get 4 to 5 PC. I always have at least 3 laptops running. Linux router, Linux laptop and Window 7. Most of the time, i use Window 7 to view datasheets, PCB layouts and watch movies I use Linux Mint/Ubuntu/Debian for almost everything else.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 8/31/2014 10:35 AM, radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to
continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal-
processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design
and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better
for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to
replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that
there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less
common for macs.

Bob

You might consider using Linux. LTspice runs very well, because AIUI
Mike Engelhardt is careful about Wine compatibility. (It saves him from
having to maintain a Linux version of LTspice.) There's a Linux version
of Eagle, if you want a reasonably full-featured layout package.

It isn't clear if Microsoft will ever release another OS for grown-ups,
but you can have Linux any way you like.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christense]

Den sřndag den 31. august 2014 21.36.27 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

Hi Rick,



On 8/31/2014 12:21 PM, rickman wrote:

On 8/31/2014 12:36 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:



Get the best of two worlds. Get a Macintosh. Install Linux on a second

partition.



If you pay the extra dough for a Mac but run most of your engineering

programs under Linux, what exactly did you gain? If the OP is using a

desktop he can just buy a PC with Linux or no OS and install Linux

himself and skip all the expensive stuff from both MS and Apple. Laptops

can be had with Linux, but I haven't found one that didn't cost more

than a similar PC with Windows.



Go the "Hackintosh" route?



Apple is considerably more expensive than a PC. OTOH, I rarely hear

Mac users complaining as LOUDLY and as OFTEN as PC users!



As I was alluding in my post on this subject, a lot comes from your

personal attitude towards the tools. Do you want them to "just work"?

Or, are you willing to put up with some "grief" to get where you

want to be?



Most of my Mac friends don't want to be bothered with maintaining

their "computer" -- any moreso than they want to change their own

oil in their vehicles! Or, even having to *wait* for the oil to be

changed (instead of continuing with their planned chores/activities).



OTOH, most of my "PC" friends don't have a choice (or, haven't

realized that they had one!)

at one point tomshardware I think tried to see if MACs very really more
expensive than PC,
sure you could get a cheap windows laptop, but when they spec'd the windows laptop to be similar to the MAC offering they were priced the same

-Lasse

 

[Neon John]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:35:31 -0700 (PDT), radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

>Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Linux.

The hardware doesn't much matter, though most binary compatible
programs are distributed in PC format.

With our moving from Eagle to KiCAD, our shop is now all FOSS with one
exception. Still have to use Quartus for FPGAs. At least they have a
Linux version.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

 

[Wayne Chirnside]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:35:31 -0700, radams2000 wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to
continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal-
processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and
might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this
, PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7
with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of
nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Bob

I'd give Gnu/Linux Mint XFCE a look if I were you.
Not your daddy's Linux as it's easy to use and the Synaptic package
manager handles searches for relevant packages for your needs.
Can't hurt to download and burn a free DVD as it's also what they call a
LIVE release meaning you can give it a look see before committing it to
your hard drive.
Boots into your RAM.

 

[Fred McKenzie]

In article <a1377700-2374-4066-a510-55d6379f8aa4@googlegroups.com>,
radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to
do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with
Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin
some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know
what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a
toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that
seems less common for macs.

Bob-

Get the best of two worlds. Get a Macintosh. Install Linux on a second
partition.

Fred

 

[Wayne Chirnside]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:35:31 -0700, radams2000 wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to
continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal-
processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and
might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this
, PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7
with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of
nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Bob

I forgot.
It's Linux Mint XFCE 17 that has long term support and I've yet to find a
bug.

 

[ChesterW]

On 8/31/14, 9:35 AM, radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I switched to a MacBook Pro 3 1/2 years ago and am very satisfied with
the decision. It's used for general business, PCB layout, running IDEs,
3D CAD and printing, signal processing design and testing in Matlab, and
data logging from USB connection to various instruments.

A virtualization program, Parallels Desktop, runs Windows XP 32 and 64
bit versions, and I occasionally load a Linux release, but haven't used
it for any real work.

My main concern when switching was that I was zeroing out all of the
things I had learned about keeping a Windows install running smoothly,
and would need to relearn all of that for a new OS. The concern was
unfounded. I haven't observed any souring on Mac OS installs, updates
are not complex, and the machine is very stable. It typically runs for
weeks between reboots. When I have some problem or question it is
usually resolved in about 5 minutes via an internet search.

At purchase I paid extra for phone support. I called them twice, the
first time just to try out the number. The second time was a failed
firewire port. I took the notebook to their store and had it back in 3 days.

Some other observations from using the setup:

Memory size in the Mac is not comparable with memory needed in Windows.
I have 8 Gig and can simultaneously run more applications than I ever
practically need. The machine has room for 16 Gig, but I've never seen
the need.

Windows installs run much better when you don't ask them to do much. I
typically don't let them have access to the network, so there's not much
need for continuously running anti-virus. When I do need a re-install of
Windows, I typically do a restore of the virtual machine file. File
exchange between the systems is seamless.

The MacBook is still fast. I expect it to last another 3 years.

Applications on Mac don't run tendrils to the rest of the system. To
un-install, typically you just delete the app files.

I updated the HDD to a 1 TB SSD about a year ago and updated the memory
from 4 to 8 Gig about two years ago. No problem with the hardware
upgrades, although on the newer models I think they may have switched to
soldered-in memory.

I'm struck by how little time I spend keeping the computer running smoothly.

ChesterW

 

[tim]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:35:31 -0700, radams2000 wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to
continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal-
processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and
might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this
, PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7
with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of
nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

I run a business doing all that with a PC running Linux. All of the
programs I use should be available for a PC running Windows.

Signal processing & heavy-lifting math: Scilab

Schematic capture & layout: Eagle (you must pay, and the price is going
up). You may want to try KiCad, but I only know it by reputation.

Digital Design: Last time I tried it, Xilinx's webpack worked under
Linux, and was free. If you're doing digital design all the time you'll
find it too clunky, but if you're just doing the occasional one-FPGA
thing, it should work fine.

Analog simulation: LTSpice, under Wine or Windows.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, August 31, 2014 10:35:31 AM UTC-4, radam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Macs support multiple boot partitions, and/or happily can load Windows/Linux/MacOS on
virtual machines (Parallels used to be the recommendation, I hear VMware is better nowadays).
The record, is something like 50 OS'es and versions on one laptop.

My attempts to multiboot Windows-native machines are not successes. To use Linux
and Windows both, I've had to use multiple hard drives and hotswap bays...

The cleanest solution, is to go to thinboot machines and serve out the OS'es from a server.
That's cheap enough if the server is Linux or Mac based...

 

Thanks for the advice. Even though I use Linux every day, I'm not much of a sys admin and the last time I tried to install Linux on a PC I got pretty frustrated. But that was about 10 years ago and I suspect things are better now.

I'm kind of liking the 3-way Mac idea. I could invest in a pretty high- end desktop Mac.


Bob

 

[Don Y]

Hi Bob,

On 8/31/2014 7:35 AM, radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to
continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal-
processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design
and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better
for this , PC or Mac ?

Are you interested in these applications *exclusively*? I.e., are
you prepared to have another machine for any apps that are not
addressed, here? And, if not, how will you handle the case
where <something> is only released for a particular platform?

How much work are you willing to do to keep the tools and the
OS running/robust? Will you have any need to keep in step with
"others" (clients, associates, etc.)? Can you tolerate keeping that
machine "isolated" (i.e., off the 'net) to improve its security?

I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with
something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of
nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

I run most of my tools under Windows (XP/7). But, use NetBSD for
much of my software development -- primarily because I write OS's,
network stacks/services, device drivers, etc. and being able to
modify the kernel is a big win for me. I suspect most Linux/*BSD
users just want "a free OS" or a "non-MS OS" and have probably
never compiled an application from source, submitted a bug report
or hacked a kernel. I.e., all of the stated reasons for wanting
access to the source code :< (IMO, maintaining a "free" OS is a
pretty high price to pay if you just want to save the cost of the
OS license!)

What sort of "support" are you expecting to need? I.e., are your
questions of the type: "How do I do <whatever>?" Or, instead, "I
am CORRECTLY doing <whatever> and the software is not performing
as expected". In the former case, having access to a forum of
similar users (of varying degrees of ability) can help you get
past your problem. In the latter case, you'll have to hope
someone "capable" expresses an interest and patiently wait for them
to get around to patching the sources IN THEIR SPARE TIME.

E.g., when I purchased AutoCAD w/AME many years ago, within a
week, I had encountered a flaw in the implementation. Within
*days* I had a revised version. This sort of support made a big
difference when I had a contract to fulfill! How much you are
willing to explore temporary workarounds or sit on your hands
while waiting for a "free" solution is something only you can
address ("semi-retired" doesn't imply "infinitely patient"! :> )

Good luck!

 

[rickman]

On 8/31/2014 12:36 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:

In article <a1377700-2374-4066-a510-55d6379f8aa4@googlegroups.com>,
radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to
do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with
Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin
some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know
what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a
toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that
seems less common for macs.

Bob-

Get the best of two worlds. Get a Macintosh. Install Linux on a second
partition.

If you pay the extra dough for a Mac but run most of your engineering
programs under Linux, what exactly did you gain? If the OP is using a
desktop he can just buy a PC with Linux or no OS and install Linux
himself and skip all the expensive stuff from both MS and Apple.
Laptops can be had with Linux, but I haven't found one that didn't cost
more than a similar PC with Windows.

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 8/31/2014 12:44 PM, ChesterW wrote:

I updated the HDD to a 1 TB SSD about a year ago and updated the memory
from 4 to 8 Gig about two years ago. No problem with the hardware
upgrades, although on the newer models I think they may have switched to
soldered-in memory.

1 TB SSD? I expect that alone cost more than my entire laptop?

--

Rick

 

[rickman]

On 8/31/2014 3:11 PM, Don Y wrote:

Hi Bob,

On 8/31/2014 7:35 AM, radams2000@gmail.com wrote:
Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to
continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal-
processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design
and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better
for this , PC or Mac ?

Are you interested in these applications *exclusively*? I.e., are
you prepared to have another machine for any apps that are not
addressed, here? And, if not, how will you handle the case
where <something> is only released for a particular platform?

That is what would rule out a Mac for me. Although you can get most any
type of tool for the Mac, it may not be the one I want to use. Same
with Linux although I may be willing to give that a try... someday.

--

Rick

 

[Tauno Voipio]

On 31.8.14 17:35, radams2000@gmail.com wrote:

Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work with Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.

Bob

I got tired of PC laptops dying under a year of use, and bought a
MacBook Pro which is still after five years in use.

The problem with operating systems is easily solved with VMware Fusion,
and the other systems in virtual machines (here: Solaris, BSD, a bunch
of Linuces and Windows XP).

--

Tauno Voipio

 

[Don Y]

Hi Rick,

On 8/31/2014 12:21 PM, rickman wrote:

On 8/31/2014 12:36 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:

Get the best of two worlds. Get a Macintosh. Install Linux on a second
partition.

If you pay the extra dough for a Mac but run most of your engineering
programs under Linux, what exactly did you gain? If the OP is using a
desktop he can just buy a PC with Linux or no OS and install Linux
himself and skip all the expensive stuff from both MS and Apple. Laptops
can be had with Linux, but I haven't found one that didn't cost more
than a similar PC with Windows.

Go the "Hackintosh" route?

Apple is considerably more expensive than a PC. OTOH, I rarely hear
Mac users complaining as LOUDLY and as OFTEN as PC users!

As I was alluding in my post on this subject, a lot comes from your
personal attitude towards the tools. Do you want them to "just work"?
Or, are you willing to put up with some "grief" to get where you
want to be?

Most of my Mac friends don't want to be bothered with maintaining
their "computer" -- any moreso than they want to change their own
oil in their vehicles! Or, even having to *wait* for the oil to be
changed (instead of continuing with their planned chores/activities).

OTOH, most of my "PC" friends don't have a choice (or, haven't
realized that they had one!)

 

> Get a PV and get it set up for dual boot Windows and Linux - not every windows program runs under wine and you will want to do some things in windows

Yes, i still need mspaint to do simple drawings and Microsoft will find ways to stop skype on Linux. Older version of skype no longer work. We are forced to upgrade on Window.