Paypal for payment of business invoices

James Morrison · Apr 19, 2005

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

Cheers,

James.

Apr 19, 2005

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't fall
under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

James,

I have used it that way, but I am never comfortable until the transaction
is complete. As you noted, it can be a nightmare, so its always caveat
emptor. Its a risk I take now and then. The worst part is not having any
way to call and speak to a real person if things go wrong.

That said, I have never had any problems, but I know folks who have. Some
get screwed and never get it fixed up, others have had it solved for them.

Never gamble more money than you can afford to lose

JB

Rene Tschaggelar · Apr 19, 2005

James Morrison wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

Just a sidenote concerning credit card payment
which could be an alternate form of payment for
contracts.

Becoming VISA / MC contractor costs in the order
of 300$ / Euro for setting up the process, the
security check and you don't get a receipt for this.

Then while VISA adds the incoming amount right away,
it expects you to be ready to pay it back when the
customer cancels the payment within a year. Yes, a
year. It the customer cancels, you have to take legal
action to get your money. VISA is out of the process.

MC / Eurocard witholds the amount for one month before
adding it to your account. I forgot how long they ask
you to pay it back in case of cancelation. Also here,
in case of cancelation, you're on your own and have to
do what is necessary to get your money.

For small customers such as me, they charge in the
order of 4% for their service.

The point I'm writing this, is : they are banks but
that doesn't help much.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

Spehro Pefhany · Apr 19, 2005

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:37:08 -0400, the renowned James Morrison
<spam1@emorrison.ca> wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

For larger amounts it can be a bit expensive. Note that they charge
2.9% (+0.30 US or something like that) as their basic fee (35% more
for outside US/Canada- 3.9%), and 2.5% on top of the interbank rate
for currency conversions. They won't allow US$ withdrawals outside the
US, it has to be converted to local currency. If the invoice is in the
thousands, that could be hundreds of dollars off the top in total.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Pooh Bear · Apr 19, 2005

James Morrison wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

I haven't heard of it being used in this way but it made me think that it's
an interesting alternative to accepting credit cards directly.

I noticed the following recently on the paypal pages in the UK.

PayPal (Europe) Ltd. is regulated by the Financial Services Authority in
the United Kingdom as an electronic money institution.
PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056.

The FSA also regulates banks in the UK.

Graham

James Morrison · Apr 19, 2005

On Tue, 2005-04-19 at 13:49 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:37:08 -0400, James Morrison
spam1@emorrison.ca> wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

Cheers,

James.

WHY can't you wait for a check?

Easy Jim. I guess you missed the sentence, "I've had a few customers
ask about it...". I can wait but my customers like the convenience of
it.

I often require a partial payment to begin a job with new customers as a
show of good faith. If they want to start right away and not wait for
the post then this may also be of interest in that case as well.

Joerg · Apr 19, 2005

Hello James,

Easy Jim. I guess you missed the sentence, "I've had a few customers
ask about it...". I can wait but my customers like the convenience of
it.

Suggest a wire or electronic funds transfer. Usually much lower in cost
and blazingly fast.

I often require a partial payment to begin a job with new customers as a
show of good faith. If they want to start right away and not wait for
the post then this may also be of interest in that case as well.

Electronic transfer should fix that.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Apr 19, 2005

In <Kvg9e.3405$J12.1704@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/19/05
at 11:29 PM, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> said:

Suggest a wire or electronic funds transfer. Usually much lower in cost
and blazingly fast.

I often require a partial payment to begin a job with new customers as a
show of good faith. If they want to start right away and not wait for
the post then this may also be of interest in that case as well.

Electronic transfer should fix that.

All these are good options. The more choices you can present, the more
chances you will have of getting the work. Some people are just enamored
with technology and whatever is cool at the moment. Hence the morbid
fascination with microsoft windows...... Anyway, paypal is simple, easy,
and if it works, just as fast as any other method. I would venture the
statement that if you cannot accept paypal, some might think that reflects
on your business choices. Not to say that is a fair assement, but I think
it could be one factor.

I am of the impression that the US banking system with checks has upgraded
to where checks clear pretty much the day you deposit them. Isn't that
right? Ebay and other sellers all still seem to be stuck with the old
"check payment will require 7-10 days to clear the bank' when I think that
has gone away and the waiting period is pretty much nonexistent.

I asked the fellow at the bank when I will be able to transfer funds from
my account, to say my son's account at another bank, the same way I do my
electronic bill paying, and he just smiled and said "if you can do that,
what good is a bank" My reply was, what good is a bank now?

One day tho.

JB

Tim Hubberstey · Apr 19, 2005

James Morrison wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

I've never dealt with PayPal in any way so I don't know if anything on
this site is true. For all I know, it could be a smear campaign by some
other payment processing company. That said, I would definitely check
out the allegations made here before doing anything.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

--
Tim Hubberstey, P.Eng. . . . . . Hardware/Software Consulting Engineer
Marmot Engineering . . . . . . . VHDL, ASICs, FPGAs, embedded systems
Vancouver, BC, Canada . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.marmot-eng.com

Jim Thompson · Apr 19, 2005

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:11:47 -0600, learning@learning.com wrote:

[snip]

I am of the impression that the US banking system with checks has upgraded
to where checks clear pretty much the day you deposit them. Isn't that
right? Ebay and other sellers all still seem to be stuck with the old
"check payment will require 7-10 days to clear the bank' when I think that
has gone away and the waiting period is pretty much nonexistent.

My business bank, BankOne, Chase, whatever it's called today, used to
do that hold shit on me, particularly for checks over $20K. Then four
more banks sprang up on the corner, and I said, "I'll take my business
across the street". No more holds.

I asked the fellow at the bank when I will be able to transfer funds from
my account, to say my son's account at another bank, the same way I do my
electronic bill paying, and he just smiled and said "if you can do that,
what good is a bank" My reply was, what good is a bank now?

One day tho.

JB

I tried that transfer stuff once, from within the same bank, just in
another state, to send money to my daughters when they were in
college. They charged me $12 on EACH END :-(

From then on I simply stuffed some bills in a FedEx envelope... never
lost a dime.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Apr 19, 2005

Hello Jim,

I tried that transfer stuff once, from within the same bank, just in
another state, to send money to my daughters when they were in
college. They charged me $12 on EACH END :-(

Ouch. They shouldn't do that at the receiving end. But anyway, for large
invoices that's still a lot less than the 2.9% commission that Spehro
mentioned for Paypal.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Tim Wescott · Apr 19, 2005

Tim Hubberstey wrote:

James Morrison wrote:

Hello all,

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

I've never dealt with PayPal in any way so I don't know if anything on
this site is true. For all I know, it could be a smear campaign by some
other payment processing company. That said, I would definitely check
out the allegations made here before doing anything.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

There's probably a www.*sucks.com for just about any national business

or public figure. I checked the www.radioshacksucks.com -- and it has
an option to donate via paypal!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Jim Thompson · Apr 19, 2005

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:23:25 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

I tried that transfer stuff once, from within the same bank, just in
another state, to send money to my daughters when they were in
college. They charged me $12 on EACH END :-(

Ouch. They shouldn't do that at the receiving end. But anyway, for large
invoices that's still a lot less than the 2.9% commission that Spehro
mentioned for Paypal.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Tim Hubberstey · Apr 20, 2005

Tim Wescott wrote:

Tim Hubberstey wrote:

I've never dealt with PayPal in any way so I don't know if anything on
this site is true. For all I know, it could be a smear campaign by
some other payment processing company. That said, I would definitely
check out the allegations made here before doing anything.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

There's probably a www.*sucks.com for just about any national business
or public figure. I checked the www.radioshacksucks.com -- and it has
an option to donate via paypal!

I have no doubts that there are many www.*sucks.com sites out there, or
that a large portion of the complaints are of highly questionable merit.
I still believe it is a good idea to check them out because, sometimes,
there are legitimate complaints and even a highly one-sided story can
reveal important information worth further investigation. It's all part
of "due diligence".
--
Tim Hubberstey, P.Eng. . . . . . Hardware/Software Consulting Engineer
Marmot Engineering . . . . . . . VHDL, ASICs, FPGAs, embedded systems
Vancouver, BC, Canada . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.marmot-eng.com

Jim Thompson · Apr 20, 2005

On 19 Apr 2005 18:33:25 -0700, "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>
wrote:

I'm doing some hourly work right now for
Agere. They do an EFT into
my account every two
weeks... billed every two weeks... net two weeks... nice!

I've done work for several government-like agencies that only pay
contractors via electronic transfers (ACH is the acronym). In several
cases the deliverable and invoice were all-electronic too!

Tim.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Rich Grise · Apr 20, 2005

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:13:53 -0400, James Morrison wrote:

On Tue, 2005-04-19 at 13:49 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:37:08 -0400, James Morrison

Does anyone out there accept payment for design contracts or other
service-type transactions using paypal? I've had a few customers ask
about it so I figured I'd look into it. I've heard horror stories of
conflict resolution since they pretend to be a bank but really don't
fall under any particular legislation.

If you have anything to share, either positive or negative, about using
paypal in this manner I'd be interested in hearing it.

WHY can't you wait for a check?

Easy Jim. I guess you missed the sentence, "I've had a few customers
ask about it...". I can wait but my customers like the convenience of
it.

I often require a partial payment to begin a job with new customers as a
show of good faith. If they want to start right away and not wait for
the post then this may also be of interest in that case as well.

I haven't yet actually _got_ paid by PayPal, but I've bought a bunch of
stuff off ebay and _paid_ for it by PayPal - I was contemplating trying
to sell something, so I checked to see if I could get paid by paypal,
so I sent myself a bill to a different email and it looked like it would
have gone through fine, if I'd had another bank account to set up another
paypal account with - I was chicken to try to pay myself from the same
paypal account, if that makes any sense.

I also have no idea what PayPal's cut is.

But go to http://www.paypal.com and see what they say about it. It looks
really easy.

Anybody want to send me a couple of bucks by PayPal, just to verify that
it works? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise · Apr 20, 2005

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:11:47 -0600, learning wrote:

I asked the fellow at the bank when I will be able to transfer funds from
my account, to say my son's account at another bank, the same way I do my
electronic bill paying, and he just smiled and said "if you can do that,
what good is a bank" My reply was, what good is a bank now?

If the bank is not staffed entirely by morons, you should be able to do
that right now - all you need is his account number and his bank's
routing number, just like paying a bill.

And I've just visited http://www.paypal.com, and apparently, it's free;
presumably they get their revenue from premium services and/or ads.

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise · Apr 20, 2005

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:33:25 -0700, Tim Shoppa wrote:

I'm doing some hourly work right now for
Agere. They do an EFT into
my account every two
weeks... billed every two weeks... net two weeks... nice!

I've done work for several government-like agencies that only pay
contractors via electronic transfers (ACH is the acronym). In several
cases the deliverable and invoice were all-electronic too!

I once had a part-time job at a bank. When you start work, they open
an account for you, and on payday, your week's pay just appears in
the account. That was pretty handy.

It was in the coin room - did you know that when you spill a $1000.00
bag of dimes, they splash just like water? ;-P

Cheers!
Rich

Apr 20, 2005

In <pan.2005.04.20.15.58.23.430281@example.net>, on 04/20/05
at 03:58 PM, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net> said:

If the bank is not staffed entirely by morons, you should be able to do
that right now - all you need is his account number and his bank's
routing number, just like paying a bill.

No, not so far. They won't do an electronic transfer to a personal
account. I figure if you are a business, you can set yourself up to
receive e-pays just like the electric company and the mortgage folks. Just
going from my account to my daughter's account is not permitted. Her
routing number isn't part of the bill pay stuff that the banks use.

I think it costs more than a few dollars to just do an electronic
transfer, the same kind as was always done prior to the net allowing e-pay
for bills.

If this is permitted in other states or areas, I am glad to see it as it
would be a good tool.

And I've just visited http://www.paypal.com, and apparently, it's free;
presumably they get their revenue from premium services and/or ads.

Its free to send, but it costs to receive.

JB

Keith Williams · Apr 20, 2005

In article <pan.2005.04.20.16.01.37.847251@example.net>,
richgrise@example.net says...

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:33:25 -0700, Tim Shoppa wrote:

I'm doing some hourly work right now for
Agere. They do an EFT into
my account every two
weeks... billed every two weeks... net two weeks... nice!

I've done work for several government-like agencies that only pay
contractors via electronic transfers (ACH is the acronym). In several
cases the deliverable and invoice were all-electronic too!

I once had a part-time job at a bank. When you start work, they open
an account for you, and on payday, your week's pay just appears in
the account. That was pretty handy.

I don't work for a bank, though when I started working my boss took me
to the credit union to open an account. Amazingly, my pay just appears
in there on payday too. It's been doing it regularly for about 31
years. ...even after I transferred to a different site/state. Funny
how that works.

It was in the coin room - did you know that when you spill a $1000.00
bag of dimes, they splash just like water? ;-P

Did you get out the shop-vac?

--
Keith

Paypal for payment of business invoices

James Morrison

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