OT: Small / light NOT expensive PC with RS-232 port

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-01-30, Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

serial is used in point of sale, (fpr scales, barcode readers, eftpos
terminals, cash drawers, printers etc.) so computers intended for POS
applications will likely have serial, often several. probably too
over-engineered to be cheap though.


--
For a good time: install ntp

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[hamilton]

On 1/30/2014 10:53 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
In article<yzjGu.243953$wB.206796@fx28.iad>, robertbaer@localnet.com
says...

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/fanless-pc

That's a good deal btw..

Jamie

Looks nice, but how in the hell does one ask the seller a question?

Its near the bottom of the linked page.

hamilton

 

[Randy Day]

In article <AFGGu.477656$h66.152346@fx18.iad>, robertbaer@localnet.com
says...

[snip]

Am going to noodle around with empty HD and see if Win3.11 will do..;
too bad i tossed my Win95 and my Win98SE disks.

Put an ad in your local classifieds/
craigslist/kijiji to see if anyone has
a win95/98 disk lying around...

 

[Daniel Pitts]

On 1/30/14 9:41 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Daniel Pitts wrote:
On 1/29/14 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).
It's too bad Windows is a requirement. You could get a Raspberry Pi for
pretty cheap, but it runs BSD AFAIK. Then, just get a USB to RS-232
dongle. Done.

Anyway, I don't know if its still any good, but years ago I used to use
"http://www.pricewatch.com/" to find good deals.

In the "PC - Barebones" section, there is a Pentium 4 for $75 (+$20
shipping)

In the "PC - No OS" section there is an Intel Core 2 Duo also for $75.

I don't know about you, but that's "cheap" to me.

You might be able to build one cheaper, depending on how you value your
time, by buying the parts and assembling it yourself.
USB to RS-232 will NOT work; the software is Win95 age (roughly and
tied into the port addresses.

I'd be surprised if the OS doesn't had that from applications. Did you
look at the other options I posted. I didn't check the specs, but they
may have built in RS-232.

 

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:31:29 -0800, mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/29/2014 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

Might be helpful to know why you need the rs-232 port.
All usb/rs-232 dongles are not created equal. I can't make any
recommendations, because all mine are noname dongles.
But they do behave differently if you're bit-banging the control lines.
And there are utilities to open the ports on XP and newer to make
old SW run.
If you need accurate timing bit-banging the port, you may be outa luck.

It would help a lot, if the actual requirements would be known.

Unless some real time kernel is used that runs Windows/Linux as the
lowest priority NULL task, bit banging is out of question for any real
data rates above 300 bit/s.

However, if you need accurate data direction control in half duplex
RS-485, at least some Ethernet/serial converters work quite well, but
of course, even those do not exactly handle the Modbus 1.5/3.5
character time issues, but in most cases, it is not even required in
practice.

 

[Robert Roland]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:43:25 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Absolutely NOT an option; the program is Windows based and addresses
the RS-232 port.

Many Windows applications can be run in Linux. Look up wine and mono.
--
RoRo

 

[John Fields]

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 19:22:06 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

---
Google PC104

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:05:08 +0100, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> Gave
us:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:43:25 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Absolutely NOT an option; the program is Windows based and addresses
the RS-232 port.

Many Windows applications can be run in Linux. Look up wine and mono.

WITH direct hardware access?

Copeth thyselfeth a clueeth.

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 04:59:39 -0700, hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> Gave
us:

On 1/30/2014 10:53 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
In article<yzjGu.243953$wB.206796@fx28.iad>, robertbaer@localnet.com
says...

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/fanless-pc

That's a good deal btw..

Jamie

Looks nice, but how in the hell does one ask the seller a question?

Its near the bottom of the linked page.

hamilton

Doesn't look nice. Is 2 years old obsolete.

Everything now has USB 3. Lack thereof is an indication of years old
HW design, even if the PC 'product' is only a year out the door.

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:28 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com Gave us:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:31:29 -0800, mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/29/2014 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

Might be helpful to know why you need the rs-232 port.
All usb/rs-232 dongles are not created equal. I can't make any
recommendations, because all mine are noname dongles.
But they do behave differently if you're bit-banging the control lines.
And there are utilities to open the ports on XP and newer to make
old SW run.
If you need accurate timing bit-banging the port, you may be outa luck.

It would help a lot, if the actual requirements would be known.

Unless some real time kernel is used that runs Windows/Linux as the
lowest priority NULL task, bit banging is out of question for any real
data rates above 300 bit/s.

However, if you need accurate data direction control in half duplex
RS-485, at least some Ethernet/serial converters work quite well, but
of course, even those do not exactly handle the Modbus 1.5/3.5
character time issues, but in most cases, it is not even required in
practice.

You probably went way over his head.

Strange that he will not say (or has not said) what he is doing with
it that makes a hard connection to it a requisite. He talks about a
Windblows only software that he has to hook to it with.

Mutable... Like Putty.

 

[josephkk]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:43:25 -0800, Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com>
wrote:

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 07:38:59 +0000, Martin Brown
|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

On 30/01/2014 03:22, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?

Scrapyard?

snip

Run Linux.

While you are at it... use a 3 watt PC for this.

It is an ARM platform, so added benefit of no WindBloats security
nightmare OSes.

What do you need the port for?

http://imx.solid-run.com/product/cubox-i4-pro/

My set-up uses about 50 Watts (sans peripherals)


PC - $150.00
BlueTooth Touch Panel Keyboard - $9.00
21" Touch Screen Display - $306.00 (It is *ALSO* an Android PC)

Total - $465.00

Power:

PC - 2.5 to 5 Watts
BlueTooth Touch Panel Keyboard - 3 to 6 Watts
21" Touch Screen LED Display - 40 Watts

Total - 47 to 50 Watts

$10 per watt. Not bad.
Absolutely NOT an option; the program is Windows based and addresses
the RS-232 port.

I suspect that you will have to run your guest OS and application in a
virtual machine.

?-/

 

[josephkk]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:28 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:31:29 -0800, mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/29/2014 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

Might be helpful to know why you need the rs-232 port.
All usb/rs-232 dongles are not created equal. I can't make any
recommendations, because all mine are noname dongles.
But they do behave differently if you're bit-banging the control lines.
And there are utilities to open the ports on XP and newer to make
old SW run.
If you need accurate timing bit-banging the port, you may be outa luck.

It would help a lot, if the actual requirements would be known.

Unless some real time kernel is used that runs Windows/Linux as the
lowest priority NULL task, bit banging is out of question for any real
data rates above 300 bit/s.

However, if you need accurate data direction control in half duplex
RS-485, at least some Ethernet/serial converters work quite well, but
of course, even those do not exactly handle the Modbus 1.5/3.5
character time issues, but in most cases, it is not even required in
practice.

OP (Robert Baer) has repeated stated that he needs to run legacy software
that talks directly to the hardware port.

?-)

 

[Tauno Voipio]

On 2.2.14 22:29, josephkk wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:28 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:31:29 -0800, mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/29/2014 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

Might be helpful to know why you need the rs-232 port.
All usb/rs-232 dongles are not created equal. I can't make any
recommendations, because all mine are noname dongles.
But they do behave differently if you're bit-banging the control lines.
And there are utilities to open the ports on XP and newer to make
old SW run.
If you need accurate timing bit-banging the port, you may be outa luck.

It would help a lot, if the actual requirements would be known.

Unless some real time kernel is used that runs Windows/Linux as the
lowest priority NULL task, bit banging is out of question for any real
data rates above 300 bit/s.

However, if you need accurate data direction control in half duplex
RS-485, at least some Ethernet/serial converters work quite well, but
of course, even those do not exactly handle the Modbus 1.5/3.5
character time issues, but in most cases, it is not even required in
practice.

OP (Robert Baer) has repeated stated that he needs to run legacy software
that talks directly to the hardware port.

?-)

He may be out of luck - the classig 8250 / 16450 / 16550 -style
serial port begins to be unobtanuim.

--

-TV

 

[Martin Brown]

On 31/01/2014 23:43, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:05:08 +0100, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> Gave
us:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:43:25 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Absolutely NOT an option; the program is Windows based and addresses
the RS-232 port.

Many Windows applications can be run in Linux. Look up wine and mono.

WITH direct hardware access?

Copeth thyselfeth a clueeth.

Some virtual machine implementations can do it in realtime. I recall an
excellent emulation of the 16550 UART for OS/2 that would run on bog
standard RS232 hardware and work at the then maximum speed 230kbaud ISTR
as a bonus you could set the FIFO to more than 16 bytes as well.

At the time it was a demo of why OS/2 was better than Doze.
Unfortunately the best technology seldom wins out over marketing clout.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUn]

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 21:11:28 +0000, Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

On 31/01/2014 23:43, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:05:08 +0100, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> Gave
us:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:43:25 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Absolutely NOT an option; the program is Windows based and addresses
the RS-232 port.

Many Windows applications can be run in Linux. Look up wine and mono.

WITH direct hardware access?

Copeth thyselfeth a clueeth.

Some virtual machine implementations can do it in realtime. I recall an
excellent emulation of the 16550 UART for OS/2 that would run on bog
standard RS232 hardware and work at the then maximum speed 230kbaud ISTR
as a bonus you could set the FIFO to more than 16 bytes as well.

At the time it was a demo of why OS/2 was better than Doze.
Unfortunately the best technology seldom wins out over marketing clout.

I had a multi-thread use example applet for my OS/2 I ran that showed
how it ran multiple process threads more smoothly.

It was a definitely closer to the bone, more compact base level
kernel. Not hard to beat Windows with that said.

You may well be right. For a single channel. Would one be able to
synch up five machines via such ports, reliably?

 

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:29:31 -0800, josephkk
<joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

OP (Robert Baer) has repeated stated that he needs to run legacy software
that talks directly to the hardware port.

Doesn't GIVEIO work ?
It essentially maps the hardware I/O pages to the user mode virtual
address space memory map ?

 

[mike]

On 2/2/2014 10:06 PM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:29:31 -0800, josephkk
joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


OP (Robert Baer) has repeated stated that he needs to run legacy software
that talks directly to the hardware port.

Doesn't GIVEIO work ?
It essentially maps the hardware I/O pages to the user mode virtual
address space memory map ?

I think these programs simply remove the OS block so you can access the
registers from user space.
But, if you're at the mercy of the usb/rs232 interface, that doesn't
help restore registers that aren't there.
But, there are differences among the converter dongles that may allow
some sort of control over the control lines...maybe...depends.

The task is still undefined.
Running legacy software that talks directly to the hardware port
leaves a lot of variability in exactly what is needed.

If it were me, I'd plug in a dongle, install the os unblocker
software and see if i could peek/poke the registers needed.
They may be simulated...maybe.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 03/02/2014 03:55, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 21:11:28 +0000, Martin Brown
|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> Gave us:

On 31/01/2014 23:43, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 22:05:08 +0100, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no> Gave
us:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:43:25 -0800, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Absolutely NOT an option; the program is Windows based and addresses
the RS-232 port.

Many Windows applications can be run in Linux. Look up wine and mono.

WITH direct hardware access?

Copeth thyselfeth a clueeth.

Some virtual machine implementations can do it in realtime. I recall an
excellent emulation of the 16550 UART for OS/2 that would run on bog
standard RS232 hardware and work at the then maximum speed 230kbaud ISTR
as a bonus you could set the FIFO to more than 16 bytes as well.

At the time it was a demo of why OS/2 was better than Doze.
Unfortunately the best technology seldom wins out over marketing clout.

I had a multi-thread use example applet for my OS/2 I ran that showed
how it ran multiple process threads more smoothly.

It was a definitely closer to the bone, more compact base level
kernel. Not hard to beat Windows with that said.

Unfortunately IBM screwed the (delayed) launch of OS/2 by conflating it
with the PS/2 with their proprietory MCA lock-in architecture which
galvanised the rest of the PC makers to produce the EISA standard.

You may well be right. For a single channel. Would one be able to
synch up five machines via such ports, reliably?

Main reason for doing it was to keep up with the dialup modems of the
day which due to ever increasing realtime compression ratios could
handle the empty file (and some Usenet text files) at rates which would
go haywire with overruns without a decent length FIFO.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-02-02, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:

On 2.2.14 22:29, josephkk wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:28 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:31:29 -0800, mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/29/2014 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

Might be helpful to know why you need the rs-232 port.
All usb/rs-232 dongles are not created equal. I can't make any
recommendations, because all mine are noname dongles.
But they do behave differently if you're bit-banging the control lines.
And there are utilities to open the ports on XP and newer to make
old SW run.
If you need accurate timing bit-banging the port, you may be outa luck.

It would help a lot, if the actual requirements would be known.

Unless some real time kernel is used that runs Windows/Linux as the
lowest priority NULL task, bit banging is out of question for any real
data rates above 300 bit/s.

However, if you need accurate data direction control in half duplex
RS-485, at least some Ethernet/serial converters work quite well, but
of course, even those do not exactly handle the Modbus 1.5/3.5
character time issues, but in most cases, it is not even required in
practice.

OP (Robert Baer) has repeated stated that he needs to run legacy software
that talks directly to the hardware port.

?-)


He may be out of luck - the classig 8250 / 16450 / 16550 -style
serial port begins to be unobtanuim.

Moschip MCS9904 is current, inexpensive, and apparently programattically
fairly close.


--
For a good time: install ntp

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Tauno Voipio]

On 3.2.14 10:06, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2014-02-02, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:
On 2.2.14 22:29, josephkk wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:28 +0200, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:31:29 -0800, mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:

On 1/29/2014 7:22 PM, Robert Baer wrote:

Any suggestions along this line?
It should support Windows, ideally Win2K, but Win7 (or XP SP2) if
push comes to shove.
Unfortunately, Win98SE is no longer an option unless a legal version
is available cheap via e-bay (i tossed all my older disks).

Might be helpful to know why you need the rs-232 port.
All usb/rs-232 dongles are not created equal. I can't make any
recommendations, because all mine are noname dongles.
But they do behave differently if you're bit-banging the control lines.
And there are utilities to open the ports on XP and newer to make
old SW run.
If you need accurate timing bit-banging the port, you may be outa luck.

It would help a lot, if the actual requirements would be known.

Unless some real time kernel is used that runs Windows/Linux as the
lowest priority NULL task, bit banging is out of question for any real
data rates above 300 bit/s.

However, if you need accurate data direction control in half duplex
RS-485, at least some Ethernet/serial converters work quite well, but
of course, even those do not exactly handle the Modbus 1.5/3.5
character time issues, but in most cases, it is not even required in
practice.

OP (Robert Baer) has repeated stated that he needs to run legacy software
that talks directly to the hardware port.

?-)


He may be out of luck - the classig 8250 / 16450 / 16550 -style
serial port begins to be unobtanuim.

Moschip MCS9904 is current, inexpensive, and apparently programattically
fairly close.

It seems that the OP's code needs an interface that looks to the
programmer just like the IBM PC Serial Adapter, with all the quirks.

--

-TV