Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 11:33:36 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
You have the mentality of a 13yo.
You have the mentality of a 13yo.
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D
David Brown
Guest
On 04/08/14 16:07, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:56:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
/Please/ get yourself a newsreader and stop using the crap google
interface that messes up every post!
I hadn't heard that these particular patients had been given such
experimental serums, but it seems they have.
Note, however, that they got them while they were still in Africa. They
did not get more effective treatment as a result of being returned to
the USA. (Not that I have anything against returning them to the USA -
even if their survival chances are not affected, they would be a bit
more comfortable.)
It is a good thing that these treatments are being tried - they may not
have had the usual clinical trials, but the death rate for ebola is high
enough that we should not worry so much about side-effects or other factors.
The US (including federal spending, drug companies, charities) puts
quite a lot of money and effort into third-world disease research. But
it doesn't put much into ebola research, because it is not actually a
major disease - malaria, for example, is a far bigger issue. It is only
as a result of this current outbreak that ebola is at risk of being a
serious problem and affecting African cities (rather than just a few
out-of-the-way villages), and thus only now that ebola serums and
vaccines are being pushed hard.
> On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:56:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
/Please/ get yourself a newsreader and stop using the crap google
interface that messes up every post!
There are experimental treatments for ebola, such as blood transfusions
from ebola survivors (hopefully with some useful antibodies), but I
don't think they are being used in these cases.
They can do bit more here:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/health/experimental-ebola-serum/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I hadn't heard that these particular patients had been given such
experimental serums, but it seems they have.
Note, however, that they got them while they were still in Africa. They
did not get more effective treatment as a result of being returned to
the USA. (Not that I have anything against returning them to the USA -
even if their survival chances are not affected, they would be a bit
more comfortable.)
It is a good thing that these treatments are being tried - they may not
have had the usual clinical trials, but the death rate for ebola is high
enough that we should not worry so much about side-effects or other factors.
Actually, ebola has been rather poorly studied in the west - and
probably most study has been from the viewpoint of biological weapons
(and /of course/ the USA only studies biological weapons for defensive
purposes). There are two main reasons for this lack of interest - it is
not a danger in the west (for many reasons), and even in the African
countries where outbreaks occur, it is a minor disease. Ebola is
popular in the media, but it causes far fewer casualties than many other
nasty viruses (such as Lassa fever), and is insignificant compared to
common diseases such as malaria and measles.
That's absolutely untrue, U.S. puts 100s $M annual into third world disease research. NIH has been funding ebola vaccine development for at least 30 years.
The US (including federal spending, drug companies, charities) puts
quite a lot of money and effort into third-world disease research. But
it doesn't put much into ebola research, because it is not actually a
major disease - malaria, for example, is a far bigger issue. It is only
as a result of this current outbreak that ebola is at risk of being a
serious problem and affecting African cities (rather than just a few
out-of-the-way villages), and thus only now that ebola serums and
vaccines are being pushed hard.
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 08/04/2014 09:25 AM, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
Wild. Is the difference in competence levels between them and the CDC
folks really as bad as it looks? The CDC idiot who concluded that the
terror anthrax wasn't military in origin had autoclaved the anthrax
terror sample and "turned them into hockey pucks", so it looks like it
might still be like that.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:26:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/3/2014 12:49 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:21:28 -0700, the renowned Robert Baer wrote:
Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US.
Relax. I'm sure it's not the first sample of live Ebola to arrive in
the U.S. The military probably has barrels of the stuff.
I wouldn't want to be the pilot of that little jet spending hours and
hours with virulent hemorrhagic fever patients a thin layer of plastic
away.
There was an outbreak in a primate facility in Reston VA some years ago.
It turned out to be a strain that only infected chimpanzees. See
Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone".
My dad, USAMC, was commander of the lab in question at USAMRIID, Ft. Detrick, MD not long after that incident. He loaned me "The Hot Zone" when I went to visit, without comment. I had a *very* odd sense of deja vu as I started out reading what I'd assumed was fiction, until I figured it out--I'd just MET a bunch of people with similar names--those characters--the day before!
Dad introduced me when he showed me the lab. Those were his colleagues.
Small world.
Cheers,
James Arthur
Wild. Is the difference in competence levels between them and the CDC
folks really as bad as it looks? The CDC idiot who concluded that the
terror anthrax wasn't military in origin had autoclaved the anthrax
terror sample and "turned them into hockey pucks", so it looks like it
might still be like that.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:33:36 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
If you're going to DNA analysis on anthrax, the safe thing to do is bake it
first.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 08/04/2014 09:25 AM, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:26:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/3/2014 12:49 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:21:28 -0700, the renowned Robert Baer wrote:
Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US.
Relax. I'm sure it's not the first sample of live Ebola to arrive in
the U.S. The military probably has barrels of the stuff.
I wouldn't want to be the pilot of that little jet spending hours and
hours with virulent hemorrhagic fever patients a thin layer of plastic
away.
There was an outbreak in a primate facility in Reston VA some years ago.
It turned out to be a strain that only infected chimpanzees. See
Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone".
My dad, USAMC, was commander of the lab in question at USAMRIID, Ft. Detrick, MD not long after that incident. He loaned me "The Hot Zone" when I went to visit, without comment. I had a *very* odd sense of deja vu as I started out reading what I'd assumed was fiction, until I figured it out--I'd just MET a bunch of people with similar names--those characters--the day before!
Dad introduced me when he showed me the lab. Those were his colleagues.
Small world.
Cheers,
James Arthur
Wild. Is the difference in competence levels between them and the CDC
folks really as bad as it looks? The CDC idiot who concluded that the
terror anthrax wasn't military in origin had autoclaved the anthrax
terror sample and "turned them into hockey pucks", so it looks like it
might still be like that.
If you're going to DNA analysis on anthrax, the safe thing to do is bake it
first.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 11:33:36 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
I have no basis to make a comparison. I can say that when I visited
(Dec '93-Jan '94 IIRC), the staff were brilliant, professional, and
deadly, deadly serious. They handled very scary stuff, and they darn
well KNEW it. Space suits, negative pressure, decon showers, etc.
The book was new, possibly pre-release, and the incident fresh in
everyone's minds. That may have been a factor.
The containment and handling procedures were the best practices known or
devised at the time. But--and here it is--my possibly wrong impression
was that security ultimately rested on the good will and virtue of the
researchers themselves. If someone wants to go wrong, there simply
isn't anyone competent enough to police / catch them.
It's my impression the anthrax almost certainly came from that lab, and
from someone I probably shook hands with. I believe Dad suspected that,
but he died the next year before there was much evidence to go on. If
he were still here I'd love to ask him what he thought now, and about so
much more...
Cheers,
James Arthur
On 08/04/2014 09:25 AM, dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:26:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/3/2014 12:49 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:21:28 -0700, the renowned Robert Baer wrote:
Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US.
Relax. I'm sure it's not the first sample of live Ebola to arrive in
the U.S. The military probably has barrels of the stuff.
I wouldn't want to be the pilot of that little jet spending hours and
hours with virulent hemorrhagic fever patients a thin layer of plastic
away.
There was an outbreak in a primate facility in Reston VA some years ago.
It turned out to be a strain that only infected chimpanzees. See
Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone".
My dad, USAMC, was commander of the lab in question at USAMRIID, Ft.
Detrick, MD not long after that incident. He loaned me "The Hot Zone"
when I went to visit, without comment. I had a *very* odd sense of
deja vu as I started out reading what I'd assumed was fiction, until
I figured it out--I'd just MET a bunch of people with similar names--
those characters--the day before!
Dad introduced me when he showed me the lab. Those were his colleagues.
Small world.
Wild. Is the difference in competence levels between them and the CDC
folks really as bad as it looks?
I have no basis to make a comparison. I can say that when I visited
(Dec '93-Jan '94 IIRC), the staff were brilliant, professional, and
deadly, deadly serious. They handled very scary stuff, and they darn
well KNEW it. Space suits, negative pressure, decon showers, etc.
The book was new, possibly pre-release, and the incident fresh in
everyone's minds. That may have been a factor.
The containment and handling procedures were the best practices known or
devised at the time. But--and here it is--my possibly wrong impression
was that security ultimately rested on the good will and virtue of the
researchers themselves. If someone wants to go wrong, there simply
isn't anyone competent enough to police / catch them.
The CDC idiot who concluded that the
terror anthrax wasn't military in origin had autoclaved the anthrax
terror sample and "turned them into hockey pucks", so it looks like it
might still be like that.
It's my impression the anthrax almost certainly came from that lab, and
from someone I probably shook hands with. I believe Dad suspected that,
but he died the next year before there was much evidence to go on. If
he were still here I'd love to ask him what he thought now, and about so
much more...
Cheers,
James Arthur
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:34:22 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
"There is no FDA-approved treatment for Ebola, and Emory will use what Ribner calls "supportive care." That means carefully tracking a patient's symptoms, vital signs and organ function and taking measures, such as blood transfusions and dialysis, to keep patients stable."
Like they're really equipped to deliver that kind of care in an African field hospital.
Note, however, that they got them while they were still in Africa. They
did not get more effective treatment as a result of being returned to
the USA.
"There is no FDA-approved treatment for Ebola, and Emory will use what Ribner calls "supportive care." That means carefully tracking a patient's symptoms, vital signs and organ function and taking measures, such as blood transfusions and dialysis, to keep patients stable."
Like they're really equipped to deliver that kind of care in an African field hospital.
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 2:10:57 PM UTC-4, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
She got the expermental serum, he got a unit of blood.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNews/ebola-stricken-american-doctor-turn-worse/story?id=24791024
"However, Dr. Brantly received a unit of blood from a 14-year-old boy who
had survived Ebola because of Dr. Brantly's care," Franklin Graham,
president of Samaritan's Purse, said in a statement. "The young boy and
his family wanted to be able to help the doctor that saved his life."
That's true, and it's bad. Richard Feynman lost the love of his life to
TB, tragically shortly before treatments debuted. It takes a long time to
show up, too. We used to quarantine people six years after exposure,
back in the sanatoriums' day. (So said an old lady the other day,
whose grandma was so treated.)
http://news.yahoo.com/arrest-warrant-issued-man-tuberculosis-192756320.html
Soon lots of the kids will be in public schools, the older folks in shelters or communal housing, and it's
important to make sure everyone's okay first.
Didn't we used to quarantine new arrivals and require health exams?
(Phil would know that one.)
Cheers,
James Arthur
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 06:45:11 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoo...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:56:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 03/08/14 19:23, fredbloggs wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:13:21 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Maybe they can save their lives.
They have saved their lives, we have expensive therapies not
available in Africa. They're both improving and will be fully
recovered soon.
The treatment in the USA is the same as the treatment in African
hospitals - intravenous fluids and try to make the patient comfortable.
Like many virus infections, there are no medical treatments involved -
you just treat the symptoms and help the patient's own immune system do
its job. So the survival rates for ebola patients in the USA are not
much higher than for African hospitals
We've never had a case in the USA.
(though of course they are less
likely to suffer secondary problems, such as getting something else due
to lack of sterilised equipment).
There are experimental treatments for ebola, such as blood transfusions
from ebola survivors (hopefully with some useful antibodies), but I
don't think they are being used in these cases.
Dr. Brantly got such a transfusion, in gratitude, from one of the
patients he saved.
No, it was the woman who got the experimental treatment. Dr. Brantly
was offered the treatment but said that she was in worse shape so
needed it more.
She got the expermental serum, he got a unit of blood.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNews/ebola-stricken-american-doctor-turn-worse/story?id=24791024
"However, Dr. Brantly received a unit of blood from a 14-year-old boy who
had survived Ebola because of Dr. Brantly's care," Franklin Graham,
president of Samaritan's Purse, said in a statement. "The young boy and
his family wanted to be able to help the doctor that saved his life."
Maybe they can learn something.
This virus has been studied intensively for the past 40 years at the
top infectious disease research centers...
Actually, ebola has been rather poorly studied in the west - and
probably most study has been from the viewpoint of biological weapons
(and /of course/ the USA only studies biological weapons for defensive
purposes). There are two main reasons for this lack of interest - it is
not a danger in the west (for many reasons), and even in the African
countries where outbreaks occur, it is a minor disease. Ebola is
popular in the media, but it causes far fewer casualties than many other
nasty viruses (such as Lassa fever), and is insignificant compared to
common diseases such as malaria and measles.
We've got Hanta virus in America, a similar hemorrhagic fever, spread by
rodent feces and urine. The particulates can get airborne in arid
regions like the American Southwest.
But my dad, who spent the latter part of his career specializing in
infectious disease, said the truly scary thing was not AIDs, not Ebola,
but drug-resistant TB. Highly contagious, and hard-to-impossible to
treat. And 1/3rd of the world's population has or carries (ordinary)
TB, giving lots of opportunity for resistant strains to develop.
...and is now coming across the Southern border by the bus load.
That's true, and it's bad. Richard Feynman lost the love of his life to
TB, tragically shortly before treatments debuted. It takes a long time to
show up, too. We used to quarantine people six years after exposure,
back in the sanatoriums' day. (So said an old lady the other day,
whose grandma was so treated.)
http://news.yahoo.com/arrest-warrant-issued-man-tuberculosis-192756320.html
Soon lots of the kids will be in public schools, the older folks in shelters or communal housing, and it's
important to make sure everyone's okay first.
Didn't we used to quarantine new arrivals and require health exams?
(Phil would know that one.)
Cheers,
James Arthur
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 4:45:31 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
That story is old and inaccurate. Originally he wanted the female to get the serum because he seemed better off. Then his condition rapidly deteriorated and they gave him the serum first.
She got the expermental serum, he got a unit of blood.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNews/ebola-stricken-american-doctor-turn-worse/story?id=24791024
That story is old and inaccurate. Originally he wanted the female to get the serum because he seemed better off. Then his condition rapidly deteriorated and they gave him the serum first.
L
Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest
Den mandag den 4. august 2014 22.45.31 UTC+2 skrev dagmarg...@yahoo.com:
I believe the UK requires a TB test from visa applicant from certain
countries
-Lasse
On Monday, August 4, 2014 2:10:57 PM UTC-4, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 06:45:11 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoo...@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:56:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 03/08/14 19:23, fredbloggs wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:13:21 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Maybe they can save their lives.
They have saved their lives, we have expensive therapies not
available in Africa. They're both improving and will be fully
recovered soon.
The treatment in the USA is the same as the treatment in African
hospitals - intravenous fluids and try to make the patient comfortable.
Like many virus infections, there are no medical treatments involved -
you just treat the symptoms and help the patient's own immune system do
its job. So the survival rates for ebola patients in the USA are not
much higher than for African hospitals
We've never had a case in the USA.
(though of course they are less
likely to suffer secondary problems, such as getting something else due
to lack of sterilised equipment).
There are experimental treatments for ebola, such as blood transfusions
from ebola survivors (hopefully with some useful antibodies), but I
don't think they are being used in these cases.
Dr. Brantly got such a transfusion, in gratitude, from one of the
patients he saved.
No, it was the woman who got the experimental treatment. Dr. Brantly
was offered the treatment but said that she was in worse shape so
needed it more.
She got the expermental serum, he got a unit of blood.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNews/ebola-stricken-american-doctor-turn-worse/story?id=24791024
"However, Dr. Brantly received a unit of blood from a 14-year-old boy who
had survived Ebola because of Dr. Brantly's care," Franklin Graham,
president of Samaritan's Purse, said in a statement. "The young boy and
his family wanted to be able to help the doctor that saved his life."
Maybe they can learn something.
This virus has been studied intensively for the past 40 years at the
top infectious disease research centers...
Actually, ebola has been rather poorly studied in the west - and
probably most study has been from the viewpoint of biological weapons
(and /of course/ the USA only studies biological weapons for defensive
purposes). There are two main reasons for this lack of interest - it is
not a danger in the west (for many reasons), and even in the African
countries where outbreaks occur, it is a minor disease. Ebola is
popular in the media, but it causes far fewer casualties than many other
nasty viruses (such as Lassa fever), and is insignificant compared to
common diseases such as malaria and measles.
We've got Hanta virus in America, a similar hemorrhagic fever, spread by
rodent feces and urine. The particulates can get airborne in arid
regions like the American Southwest.
But my dad, who spent the latter part of his career specializing in
infectious disease, said the truly scary thing was not AIDs, not Ebola,
but drug-resistant TB. Highly contagious, and hard-to-impossible to
treat. And 1/3rd of the world's population has or carries (ordinary)
TB, giving lots of opportunity for resistant strains to develop.
...and is now coming across the Southern border by the bus load.
That's true, and it's bad. Richard Feynman lost the love of his life to
TB, tragically shortly before treatments debuted. It takes a long time to
show up, too. We used to quarantine people six years after exposure,
back in the sanatoriums' day. (So said an old lady the other day,
whose grandma was so treated.)
http://news.yahoo.com/arrest-warrant-issued-man-tuberculosis-192756320.html
Soon lots of the kids will be in public schools, the older folks in shelters or communal housing, and it's
important to make sure everyone's okay first.
Didn't we used to quarantine new arrivals and require health exams?
(Phil would know that one.)
I believe the UK requires a TB test from visa applicant from certain
countries
-Lasse
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 4:56:47 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
Yep. Thanks for the correction.
Cheers,
James Arthur
On Monday, August 4, 2014 4:45:31 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
She got the expermental serum, he got a unit of blood.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNews/ebola-stricken-american-doctor-turn-worse/story?id=24791024
That story is old and inaccurate. Originally he wanted the female to get the serum because he seemed better off. Then his condition rapidly deteriorated and they gave him the serum first.
Yep. Thanks for the correction.
Cheers,
James Arthur
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 08/04/2014 12:16 PM, John Larkin wrote:
I'd prefer baking it a bit hotter myself, but I'm not a forensic
microbiologist, and those folks claim to be.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:33:36 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 08/04/2014 09:25 AM, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:26:55 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 8/3/2014 12:49 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:21:28 -0700, the renowned Robert Baer wrote:
Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US.
Relax. I'm sure it's not the first sample of live Ebola to arrive in
the U.S. The military probably has barrels of the stuff.
I wouldn't want to be the pilot of that little jet spending hours and
hours with virulent hemorrhagic fever patients a thin layer of plastic
away.
There was an outbreak in a primate facility in Reston VA some years ago.
It turned out to be a strain that only infected chimpanzees. See
Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone".
My dad, USAMC, was commander of the lab in question at USAMRIID, Ft. Detrick, MD not long after that incident. He loaned me "The Hot Zone" when I went to visit, without comment. I had a *very* odd sense of deja vu as I started out reading what I'd assumed was fiction, until I figured it out--I'd just MET a bunch of people with similar names--those characters--the day before!
Dad introduced me when he showed me the lab. Those were his colleagues.
Small world.
Cheers,
James Arthur
Wild. Is the difference in competence levels between them and the CDC
folks really as bad as it looks? The CDC idiot who concluded that the
terror anthrax wasn't military in origin had autoclaved the anthrax
terror sample and "turned them into hockey pucks", so it looks like it
might still be like that.
If you're going to DNA analysis on anthrax, the safe thing to do is bake it
first.
I'd prefer baking it a bit hotter myself, but I'm not a forensic
microbiologist, and those folks claim to be.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Guest
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 10:25:07 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
....says the perpetual two year old.
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 11:33:36 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Wild. Is the difference in competence levels between them and the CDC ...
You have the mentality of a 13yo.
....says the perpetual two year old.
Guest
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 06:45:11 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:
No, it was the woman who got the experimental treatment. Dr. Brantly
was offered the treatment but said that she was in worse shape so
needed it more.
....and is now coming across the Southern border by the bus load.
wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:56:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 03/08/14 19:23, fredbloggs wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:13:21 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Maybe they can save their lives.
They have saved their lives, we have expensive therapies not
available in Africa. They're both improving and will be fully
recovered soon.
The treatment in the USA is the same as the treatment in African
hospitals - intravenous fluids and try to make the patient comfortable.
Like many virus infections, there are no medical treatments involved -
you just treat the symptoms and help the patient's own immune system do
its job. So the survival rates for ebola patients in the USA are not
much higher than for African hospitals
We've never had a case in the USA.
(though of course they are less
likely to suffer secondary problems, such as getting something else due
to lack of sterilised equipment).
There are experimental treatments for ebola, such as blood transfusions
from ebola survivors (hopefully with some useful antibodies), but I
don't think they are being used in these cases.
Dr. Brantly got such a transfusion, in gratitude, from one of the patients he saved.
No, it was the woman who got the experimental treatment. Dr. Brantly
was offered the treatment but said that she was in worse shape so
needed it more.
Maybe they can learn something.
This virus has been studied intensively for the past 40 years at the
top infectious disease research centers...
Actually, ebola has been rather poorly studied in the west - and
probably most study has been from the viewpoint of biological weapons
(and /of course/ the USA only studies biological weapons for defensive
purposes). There are two main reasons for this lack of interest - it is
not a danger in the west (for many reasons), and even in the African
countries where outbreaks occur, it is a minor disease. Ebola is
popular in the media, but it causes far fewer casualties than many other
nasty viruses (such as Lassa fever), and is insignificant compared to
common diseases such as malaria and measles.
We've got Hanta virus in America, a similar hemorrhagic fever, spread by rodent feces and urine. The particulates can get airborne in arid regions like the American Southwest.
But my dad, who spent the latter part of his career specializing in infectious disease, said the truly scary thing was not AIDs, not Ebola, but drug-resistant TB. Highly contagious, and hard-to-impossible to treat. And 1/3rd of the world's population has or carries (ordinary) TB, giving lots of opportunity for resistant strains to develop.
....and is now coming across the Southern border by the bus load.
Guest
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 00:00:22 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@gmail.com> wrote:
<not bothering to read Slowman's droning>
You statists really are trusting souls.
<bill.sloman@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, 4 August 2014 10:51:28 UTC+10, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:45:02 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/3/2014 8:28 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 16:47:31 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 19:28:32 -0400, Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:21:28 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US.
It looks like it has reached the UK.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebola-terror-gatwick-passenger-collapses-3977051
BBC says it wasn't ebola.
That's what they want you to think.
Yeah... maybe they want you to think that because it's the truth?
You statists really are trusting souls.
Krw only trust his own opinions, which is a trifle riskier.
In fact the BBC has a better reputation for reliability than the UK newspaper, The Mirror, which does get successfully sued for libel from time to time. The BBC is government owned, but politicians don't have any direct or immediate influence on the stories it publishes. This sort of distinction is a little too subtle for krw.
<not bothering to read Slowman's droning>
You statists really are trusting souls.
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 14:10:57 -0400, krw@attt.bizz wrote:
Further developments:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/health/experimental-ebola-serum/index.html
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 06:45:11 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 8:56:54 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
On 03/08/14 19:23, fredbloggs wrote:
On Sunday, August 3, 2014 1:13:21 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Maybe they can save their lives.
They have saved their lives, we have expensive therapies not
available in Africa. They're both improving and will be fully
recovered soon.
The treatment in the USA is the same as the treatment in African
hospitals - intravenous fluids and try to make the patient comfortable.
Like many virus infections, there are no medical treatments involved -
you just treat the symptoms and help the patient's own immune system do
its job. So the survival rates for ebola patients in the USA are not
much higher than for African hospitals
We've never had a case in the USA.
(though of course they are less
likely to suffer secondary problems, such as getting something else due
to lack of sterilised equipment).
There are experimental treatments for ebola, such as blood transfusions
from ebola survivors (hopefully with some useful antibodies), but I
don't think they are being used in these cases.
Dr. Brantly got such a transfusion, in gratitude, from one of the patients he saved.
No, it was the woman who got the experimental treatment. Dr. Brantly
was offered the treatment but said that she was in worse shape so
needed it more.
Further developments:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/health/experimental-ebola-serum/index.html
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 6:50:29 PM UTC-4, k...@attt.bizz wrote:
I'm not worried about transmission--you've pretty well got to touch someone
to get it--but for people who worry...the serum came from San Diego.
So, they've got virus too. Maybe that Spanish flu professor in
Minnesota can get in the game and make a super-er influbola bug.
Cheers,
James Arthur
On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 14:09:25 -0700 (PDT), dagmargoo...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 4:56:47 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, August 4, 2014 4:45:31 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WorldNews/ebola-stricken-american-doctor-turn-worse/story?id=24791024
That story is old and inaccurate. Originally he wanted the female to get the serum because he seemed better off. Then his condition rapidly deteriorated and they gave him the serum first.
Yep. Thanks for the correction.
The news was just reporting that both had received two doses of the
serum. The first didn't do much but the second made a big difference
in both. Dr. Brandtly reportedly walked (with help) from the
ambulance into the hospital and she was now well enough to fly (should
be here tomorrow).
I'm not worried about transmission--you've pretty well got to touch someone
to get it--but for people who worry...the serum came from San Diego.
So, they've got virus too. Maybe that Spanish flu professor in
Minnesota can get in the game and make a super-er influbola bug.
Cheers,
James Arthur
J
John S
Guest
On 8/4/2014 12:04 PM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
Monkey brains.
On Monday, August 4, 2014 9:45:11 AM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
But my dad, who spent the latter part of his career specializing in infectious disease, said the truly scary thing was not AIDs, not Ebola, but drug-resistant TB. Highly contagious, and hard-to-impossible to treat. And 1/3rd of the world's population has or carries (ordinary) TB, giving lots of opportunity for resistant strains to develop.
Russia is teeming with it, especially their horrendous prisons. It's so infectious that a carrier who sneezes in a cab or bus will leave aerosolized infectious material floating around for hours later.
Ebola is a non-issue, two things working against it becoming a raging plague as the ignorant hysterics imagine:
1) kills victims very quickly
2) symptoms are severe and apparent, ample warning for healthy people to steer clear of them.
These Africans bring this disease on themselves, they've been told to stop eating rats and to keep their food storage areas free of rodents. The original outbreaks were in areas where they had annual tribal festivals entailing rounding up a bunch of rats from the wild and feasting on them. When a people continue to engage in practices they have been told put them at risk for this kind of thing, they really are NOT victims.
Monkey brains.
D
David Brown
Guest
On 04/08/14 22:42, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, they /are/ equipped for it. There will be more limited access to
dialysis machines (though they will have some), but field hospitals in
Africa are perfectly capable of giving blood transfusions.
/Monitoring/ a patient does not affect his survival when there is little
that can be done in response to that monitoring. The main symptomatic
treatments for ebola are intravenous hydration and blood transfusion -
and you can monitor the need for those by simple observation (the
patient is clearly dehydrated, or is bleeding a lot) - you don't need
sophisticated, expensive computerised monitoring.
The only point where more advanced monitoring and treatment could help
is with kidney failure - in a well-equipped hospital the doctors can see
the need sooner, and have better dialysis equipment on hand. But since
the chances of survival after reaching the stage of kidney failure are
slim even with dialysis, access to better equipment here will not make a
significant difference to survival chances.
(And again, let me say I think it is good that these folk get the best
treatment possible, even if it is only marginally better than what they
could get in Africa. They are heroes - putting their lives on the line
to help strangers.)
If we see more cases of ebola patients in the west, I would expect
doctors to learn more about treatments that will increase the survival
rates in western hospitals. But hopefully it will not come to that, if
the progress on serums and vaccines continues.
On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:34:22 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
Note, however, that they got them while they were still in Africa. They
did not get more effective treatment as a result of being returned to
the USA.
"There is no FDA-approved treatment for Ebola, and Emory will use what Ribner calls "supportive care." That means carefully tracking a patient's symptoms, vital signs and organ function and taking measures, such as blood transfusions and dialysis, to keep patients stable."
Like they're really equipped to deliver that kind of care in an African field hospital.
Yes, they /are/ equipped for it. There will be more limited access to
dialysis machines (though they will have some), but field hospitals in
Africa are perfectly capable of giving blood transfusions.
/Monitoring/ a patient does not affect his survival when there is little
that can be done in response to that monitoring. The main symptomatic
treatments for ebola are intravenous hydration and blood transfusion -
and you can monitor the need for those by simple observation (the
patient is clearly dehydrated, or is bleeding a lot) - you don't need
sophisticated, expensive computerised monitoring.
The only point where more advanced monitoring and treatment could help
is with kidney failure - in a well-equipped hospital the doctors can see
the need sooner, and have better dialysis equipment on hand. But since
the chances of survival after reaching the stage of kidney failure are
slim even with dialysis, access to better equipment here will not make a
significant difference to survival chances.
(And again, let me say I think it is good that these folk get the best
treatment possible, even if it is only marginally better than what they
could get in Africa. They are heroes - putting their lives on the line
to help strangers.)
If we see more cases of ebola patients in the west, I would expect
doctors to learn more about treatments that will increase the survival
rates in western hospitals. But hopefully it will not come to that, if
the progress on serums and vaccines continues.
Guest
On Monday, August 4, 2014 10:35:40 PM UTC-4, dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
It was the result of a collaboration:
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/44/18030.abstract
This therapy is far removed from being a cure. Viruses have a tendency to hide out and go dormant only to emerge later under conditions that are not fully understood. Also the body tends to clear the blood of the mAbs, they do not continue to circulate indefinitely. Little is known about long term survival with this treatment.
I'm not worried about transmission--you've pretty well got to touch someone
to get it--but for people who worry...the serum came from San Diego.
So, they've got virus too. Maybe that Spanish flu professor in
Minnesota can get in the game and make a super-er influbola bug.
Cheers,
James Arthur
It was the result of a collaboration:
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/44/18030.abstract
This therapy is far removed from being a cure. Viruses have a tendency to hide out and go dormant only to emerge later under conditions that are not fully understood. Also the body tends to clear the blood of the mAbs, they do not continue to circulate indefinitely. Little is known about long term survival with this treatment.
J
josephkk
Guest
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 10:13:21 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
Your massive arrogant ignorance is showing once again.
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:21:28 -0700, Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Two Americans With Ebola to Be Flown Back to US.
Maybe they can save their lives.
Maybe they can learn something.
The chances of this spreading from those two people is nil.
Ebola could be the masssive worldwide viral infection that I've always feared, a
mega-influenza. It could devastate big cities in Africa and Asia, in which case
it would soon show up all over the world. It would be unlikely to spread much in
developed countries.
There will likely be a vaccine in a few years.
Your massive arrogant ignorance is showing once again.