OT: Cartoon

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:6j2do09p27mnbrr26fjqn5hnj73qk8ivgv@4ax.com...

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:44:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

http://www.ronanddave.com/week/week.htm

...Jim Thompson


That makes sense. I think that most liberals and most conservatives
really pretty much want the same ends, a prosperous, healthy, just
society, but disagree on methods.

John

Perhaps that's because if you look past the pigeonholing terminology,
we're all people with certain traits of both.


So now past the serious point, please answer this...
What is forty feet long and has eight teeth?
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The front row at a Willie Nelson Concert!!

 

[Marc 182]

In article <1099376818.334316@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net>, dmoc@primenet.com
says...

"hamilton" <hamilton@deminsional.com> wrote...
Here is truth:
Conservatives want to control your life, but will let you keep your money.
Liberals want to control your money, but will let you keep your life.

What bullshit. Kerry is advocating a draft ("mandatory service")
for all young adults. No "Conservative" is doing that.

This falls under the category of "I reject your reality and substitute
my own". Kerry isn't and hasn't. You made it up. Post evidence if you
think you have any.

Marc

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.11.04.00.02.26.209429@example.net...
[snip]

....

if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich

AIUI, every time there's a major snowstorm up there in Minnes-Oh-ta,
about 9 months later this mini spike in the birth rate and mini
population explosion occurs. ;-)

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.11.04.04.43.47.907708@example.net...

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:06:15 +0000, R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:04:53 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote:
[]
Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view
is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how
everyone else
should live.

That's really weird, because I see it almost exactly the opposite.
My
impression was that the liberals don't care what you do with your
own
body, but if you get any money, the liberals want you to
redistribute
it. The conservatives, however, don't care how much money you get -
the more the merrier, AIUI - but they don't want you to experience
any pleasure, because that's a sin. And, of course, they're God's
morality police on Earth.

Ah, hell, they're ALL god's morality police. And all the rule-based
systems anybody's come up with yet rely on coercion.

And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich
------------------------------
You just delude yourself that you're "enlightened".

No, no. I said that I "advocate" "enlightened self-interest." As to
whether I'm "enlightened" or not, I think, would depend on one's
definition of "enlightened."

TRUE enlightened self-interest is embodied best in People's
Democratic
Communism, which:

1) Equalizes everyone's inheritance at birth of their fair share of
the world built up by all our common ancestors,

2) Which protects the weak from being underpaid and under-advantaged
by the strong,

3) And which grants everyone who works at something we all decide
we want together an equal wage per hour that anyone can achieve and
which anyone can be as well-off as they want,

As long as they don't fuck with anyone else's equal opportunity or
cheat anyone unfairly.

Well, you seem to still be stuck on that "it's their responsibility
to feed me" mindset. Get over that, and it's a nice fantasy.

It is true, that it is the responsibility of whichever spirit I'm
the denial of, to undeny me, but that's about seven orders of
dimensionality divorced from the consensus reality.

I learn daily, in spades, that ranting at the oppressor just gives
them excuses for more oppression.

Your error, as I see it, is assuming that the oppressors are rational.

How do you stop an express train? Stand on the tracks and try to face
it down by sheer force of will? Of course not! You get squashed. You
stand alongside, and throw little rocks with intent to annoy the
wheels, and with any luck, derail it.

Sounds a lot to me like what Bin Laden did/does. :-/

This is a metaphor, by the way.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.11.04.04.55.43.467885@example.net...

[snip]

Thanks,
Rich

Rich, Rich, Rich, goes to the beach.
Bitch, bitch, bitch, about the sand.

....
With a knick, knack, paddy whack, Give the dog a bone;
This old man came rolling home.

Eh..

 

[Mark Fergerson]

Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 04:08:51 -0700, Mark Fergerson wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:


http://www.ronanddave.com/week/week.htm

It's a matter of respective priorities. IOW for each, the
first is mandatory, the second if they can be bothered to
get around to it.



Nah. The conservatives see society as an anthill, and the liberals
see it as a flower garden. ;-)

So, the former want to feed us sugar water and the latter
bullshit? Sounds about right.

Mark L. Fergerson

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:23:11 -0800, Charles Edmondson wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:
....
And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich

AH-HA, so Rich, you are a Rational Anarchist! (Heinlein - "Moon is a
Harsh Mistress") Good, we need more of us...

Unfortunately, it seems that there aren't enough of us to swing an
election! )-;

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Terry Given]

Jim Thompson wrote:

http://www.ronanddave.com/week/week.htm

...Jim Thompson
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/cartoons/

Cheers
Terry

 

Doesn't Bill Gates donate a lot of money to computer literacy
projects, etc. I know...it does promote his business.

By percentages, he doesn't donate much of anything. To the poor, what he does
give seems like a lot, but he charitable donations amount to the equivilant of
a few hundred bucks at the most, to many of us. When a man with billions
donates a million, its laughable that anyone thinks that is a generous
donation.

Besides, he created massive computer illiteracy with his terrible products in
the first place, using illegal methods. Since his business is making horrific
software, the very least he can do is cough up a few bucks to help pay for
people to figure out how to use it.

John

 

[Nicholas O. Lindan]

<uvcceet@juno.com> wrote in message

business is making horrific
software, the very least he can do is cough
up a few bucks to help pay for
people to figure out how to use it.

Bonfire building 101?

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Rich Grise wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:06:15 +0000, R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:04:53 -0500, Charles Schuler wrote:
[]
Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live.

That's really weird, because I see it almost exactly the opposite. My
impression was that the liberals don't care what you do with your own
body, but if you get any money, the liberals want you to redistribute
it. The conservatives, however, don't care how much money you get -
the more the merrier, AIUI - but they don't want you to experience
any pleasure, because that's a sin. And, of course, they're God's
morality police on Earth.

Ah, hell, they're ALL god's morality police. And all the rule-based
systems anybody's come up with yet rely on coercion.

And I don't think it's any secret that I espouse enlightened self-
interest, which some call anarchy because they're horrified that
if people aren't ruled with an iron fist, they'll all go on a
fucking spree or something.

Thanks,
Rich
------------------------------
You just delude yourself that you're "enlightened".

No, no. I said that I "advocate" "enlightened self-interest." As to
whether I'm "enlightened" or not, I think, would depend on one's
definition of "enlightened."

TRUE enlightened self-interest is embodied best in People's Democratic
Communism, which:

1) Equalizes everyone's inheritance at birth of their fair share of
the world built up by all our common ancestors,

2) Which protects the weak from being underpaid and under-advantaged
by the strong,

3) And which grants everyone who works at something we all decide
we want together an equal wage per hour that anyone can achieve and
which anyone can be as well-off as they want,

As long as they don't fuck with anyone else's equal opportunity or
cheat anyone unfairly.

Well, you seem to still be stuck on that "it's their responsibility
to feed me" mindset. Get over that, and it's a nice fantasy.
-------------------

Why would you out-and-out LIE about what I have said!!

I have said that anyone who isn't working at a job that all of us
want done SHOULD BE STARVED TILL THEY DO! I have even said that
it should be ILLEGAL for ANYONE TO FEED THEM TILL THEY SIGN UP FOR
WORK!

It is true, that it is the responsibility of whichever spirit I'm
the denial of, to undeny me, but that's about seven orders of
dimensionality divorced from the consensus reality.
------------------------

Nobody understands what you just said there.

I learn daily, in spades, that ranting at the oppressor just gives
them excuses for more oppression.
--------------------------------

So then speaking against an oppressor is useless? You're ridiculous.

Your error, as I see it, is assuming that the oppressors are rational.
----------------------

No, I have no such erroneous belief. I'm speaking to those who are
oppressed.

How do you stop an express train? Stand on the tracks and try to face
it down by sheer force of will? Of course not! You get squashed. You
stand alongside, and throw little rocks with intent to annoy the
wheels, and with any luck, derail it.

This is a metaphor, by the way.

Thanks,
Rich
------------------------

If I were to stand in its way as you say I would start killing
Republicans without anyone helping me. I'd rather wait till one
half the country is ready to kill the other half. It won't be
long now.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Mark Fergerson wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 04:08:51 -0700, Mark Fergerson wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:


http://www.ronanddave.com/week/week.htm

It's a matter of respective priorities. IOW for each, the
first is mandatory, the second if they can be bothered to
get around to it.



Nah. The conservatives see society as an anthill, and the liberals
see it as a flower garden. ;-)

So, the former want to feed us sugar water and the latter
bullshit? Sounds about right.

Mark L. Fergerson
---------------------

You're a swallower of the wealthy's disinformative bullshit.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public

 

[Terry Given]

JeffM wrote:

"noblis oblige" (nobility obligates)...
This social pressure (along with social graces??) has fallen by the wayside,
it appears.
JeffM

Doesn't Bill Gates donate a lot of money to computer literacy projects, etc.
Tom MacIntyre


What's a lot to a guy wih $50B?
When I hear him say "Ouch" I'll be impressed.

Reminds me of a comment about wealth from one of the smartest engineers
I know, who pointed out that the optimum amount of money is 5.0 times
what you currently have.

Cheers
Terry

 

[Terry Given]

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 02:54:53 +0000, R. Steve Walz wrote:


Charles Schuler wrote:

Here is truth:

Conservatives want to control your life, but will let you keep
your money.

---------------------
Nonsense.
Conservatives want to keep your wages so low that you can never
afford to oppose thempolitically, invest your money and keep the
interest for themselves, and control your life by extracting monthly
tribute, rent/mortgage, for property that by birthright you should
have inherited.

Nah. That's the nazis. Ordinary conservatives just want to make
sure that nobody's having any fun, since fun is a sin.

----------------------------
Lots of what fools call fun is not, it's merely their own brainwashed
self-destructiveness from their abuse as a child. But the religiously
superstitious are against ACTUAL fun, like sexuality, but they seem
to support "sins" that are self-destructive, as being somehow better
than those that are NOT!



Liberals want to control your money, but will let you keep your
life.

-------------------------
Liberals want to take the money from the wealthy to disempower them,
and give it BACK to you who actually WORKED for it!

Well, yeah, this is a very noble ideal, but exhorting the monied
to do the right thing has been shown, repeatedly, for thousands of
years, to be futile. Sigh.

----------------------------
The moneyed are a minority. I'm exorting the Majority!
Fully half of ALL wealth and property in the USA is owned by fewer
than 2% of the people, did you KNOW that? Beyond that, the top 25%
own or receive 80% of our gross national product!! Now how long should
the Majority tolerate that, when they could change it TOMORROW if they
wished. The only obstacle is over-coming the disinformation that this
Majority believes!

dont 100 individuals control more than 75% of the worlds wealth?

Mind you 80% of the worlds food comes from 4 crops - potatoes, corn,
rice, wheat.

Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live. They support ridiculous policies that would quickly turn off
the electricity and the oil supplies.

---------------------
No, those are just alarmist lies that the rich tell you to frighten
you out of disempowering them. The rich are NOT the magical reason
why the lights stay on. You'd have to be an ignorant victim-boob-serf
to believe crap like that!

Well, Yeah! Of course! So, are you, like I have been, still stuck on
the idea that exhortations could convince them to change their rapacious,
albeit profitable, ways?

-----------------------------------------
I'm not working to convince the rich of anything, They KNOW why they
lie to the resst of us, they PAY for the best liars and own the media!
Why would they even BOTHER to own and control the media if they did
NOT need to LIE to the rest of us to keep us down!!!



They seldom have a clue as to what
keeps their lights on or their automobiles running.

----------------------------
But they want to give the power back to you worker-victims. Are
you simply too stupid to accept it?

I don't understand this bit. The liberals want to see the tables
turned, not realizing that there is a very serious risk of turning
oneself into that thing that one hates. Is that it?

----------------------------------------
Liberals don't ALL believe in Socialism, but MOST of them do.
Rightist Reactionaries want crypto-Feudalism, where the strong
own and run everything for their advantage, and the rest of us
arethe equivalent of serfs. That *IS* what "Market" econimics
is, essentially, is, the assertion that whoever can cheat others
the best should be the richest/most powerful.

The intersting thing about darwinism is that he based a lot of his ideas
on economic theories of the time, which basically were the strong eat
the weak.

Conservatives want to shift all the money to their camp. They seldom have
even a single care for disadvantaged folks and have a smug and nasty
tendency to label them with disparaging terms.

------------------------------------
Yup. It's called organized crime, they just pay millions to keep the
people who own printing presses and TV stations from saying that!

Pretty much, yeah.

----------------------
Yup.



Shitty choice (between liberal and conservative), in my humble opinion. I
don't much care for either label and prefer to discuss politics with folks
who understand the scientific method and who like to analyze rather than
spout party line crap.

----------------------------------
This delusion on your part indicates that the Right has successfully
brainwashed and terrified you out of voting against them. The Rich
pay vast fortunes to convince people that nothing they can do will
help them, and that everyone who says they will is lying. It's very
important to despirit the slaves.

Well, the rich find themselves in the enviable position of controlling
all the resources. (BTW, I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from
capitalizing "The rich". My name is Rich, and I'm not one of them.)

----------------------------
Okay ;-> The Wealthy only control what we LET them control. If a
Majority became fully aware of their power to stop LETTING them,
then they can change that overnight. The Majority can simply decide
the wealthy ownership of other's property is in abeyance, and it
will be so!

Alas, the majority are sheep. Also it depends how ruthless the minority
are, although annihilating all the serfs leaves only the masters to do
the shitty jobs. But the likelihood is by the time you wipe out 1/2 the
serfs the rest will pretty much fall in line.

And de-spiriting the slaves is very, very easy for them, since they
have already stolen all of the resources that the slaves have access
to, except for Will.

-----------------------
And there lies the rub, Majority Will can ONLY be undermined by
disinformation!



And distribution of resources is trivial, in the face of
institutionalized murder.
Thanks,
Rich

-----------------------------
The Majority can do whatever it wants, as soon as it WANTS!

-Steve

If and only if it decides to switch its brain on. Luckily watching TV
and eating pizza is more attractive to the great unwashed.

Cheers
Terry

 

[R. Steve Walz]

Terry Given wrote:

R. Steve Walz wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 02:54:53 +0000, R. Steve Walz wrote:


Charles Schuler wrote:

Here is truth:

Conservatives want to control your life, but will let you keep
your money.

---------------------
Nonsense.
Conservatives want to keep your wages so low that you can never
afford to oppose thempolitically, invest your money and keep the
interest for themselves, and control your life by extracting monthly
tribute, rent/mortgage, for property that by birthright you should
have inherited.

Nah. That's the nazis. Ordinary conservatives just want to make
sure that nobody's having any fun, since fun is a sin.

----------------------------
Lots of what fools call fun is not, it's merely their own brainwashed
self-destructiveness from their abuse as a child. But the religiously
superstitious are against ACTUAL fun, like sexuality, but they seem
to support "sins" that are self-destructive, as being somehow better
than those that are NOT!



Liberals want to control your money, but will let you keep your
life.

-------------------------
Liberals want to take the money from the wealthy to disempower them,
and give it BACK to you who actually WORKED for it!

Well, yeah, this is a very noble ideal, but exhorting the monied
to do the right thing has been shown, repeatedly, for thousands of
years, to be futile. Sigh.

----------------------------
The moneyed are a minority. I'm exorting the Majority!
Fully half of ALL wealth and property in the USA is owned by fewer
than 2% of the people, did you KNOW that? Beyond that, the top 25%
own or receive 80% of our gross national product!! Now how long should
the Majority tolerate that, when they could change it TOMORROW if they
wished. The only obstacle is over-coming the disinformation that this
Majority believes!

dont 100 individuals control more than 75% of the worlds wealth?
--------------------------------

Since it takes between 1% and 2% (it varies year to year) to own 50%
of the US wealth, that wouldn't be true.

Mind you 80% of the worlds food comes from 4 crops - potatoes, corn,
rice, wheat.
------------------------------

I don't see the relation.

Gee, we sure see this differently and, of course, point of view is
everything. To me, liberals seem to be the ones who know how everyone else
should live. They support ridiculous policies that would quickly turn off
the electricity and the oil supplies.

---------------------
No, those are just alarmist lies that the rich tell you to frighten
you out of disempowering them. The rich are NOT the magical reason
why the lights stay on. You'd have to be an ignorant victim-boob-serf
to believe crap like that!

Well, Yeah! Of course! So, are you, like I have been, still stuck on
the idea that exhortations could convince them to change their rapacious,
albeit profitable, ways?

-----------------------------------------
I'm not working to convince the rich of anything, They KNOW why they
lie to the resst of us, they PAY for the best liars and own the media!
Why would they even BOTHER to own and control the media if they did
NOT need to LIE to the rest of us to keep us down!!!



They seldom have a clue as to what
keeps their lights on or their automobiles running.

----------------------------
But they want to give the power back to you worker-victims. Are
you simply too stupid to accept it?

I don't understand this bit. The liberals want to see the tables
turned, not realizing that there is a very serious risk of turning
oneself into that thing that one hates. Is that it?

----------------------------------------
Liberals don't ALL believe in Socialism, but MOST of them do.
Rightist Reactionaries want crypto-Feudalism, where the strong
own and run everything for their advantage, and the rest of us
arethe equivalent of serfs. That *IS* what "Market" econimics
is, essentially, is, the assertion that whoever can cheat others
the best should be the richest/most powerful.

The intersting thing about darwinism is that he based a lot of his > ideas
on economic theories of the time, which basically were the strong eat
the weak.
-------------------

The Myth called "Social Darwinism" is not in any way, shape, or form
based on Darwin's Evolution of Species or natural selection.

NO competent theory of evolution suggests that advanced species such
as ours evolved by the strongest guys winning out, or we'd all look
like Neanderthal SwarzeNazi's, and you know what happened to the
Neanderthals!! They ain't here now! Humans evolved to be chief species
by being a hundred times MORE group-cooperative and group-coordinated
than any other species on this rock, and NOT by fighting amongst
ourselves AT ALL! Our superiority resides in keeping the brightest of
our nerds supported by the collective so they could innovate. It
resides in everybody running at danger to one of our weak, not running
away from it. We scared the shit out of every predator on earth because
we did things they didn't evolve to counter, like running at them en
masse, throwing things, and stabbing with sharp spears all at once!
NO other animal does anything like that, the non-victims flee, they
don't counter-attack en masse instantly as we do!

Conservatives want to shift all the money to their camp. They seldom have
even a single care for disadvantaged folks and have a smug and nasty
tendency to label them with disparaging terms.

------------------------------------
Yup. It's called organized crime, they just pay millions to keep the
people who own printing presses and TV stations from saying that!

Pretty much, yeah.

----------------------
Yup.



Shitty choice (between liberal and conservative), in my humble opinion. I
don't much care for either label and prefer to discuss politics with folks
who understand the scientific method and who like to analyze rather than
spout party line crap.

----------------------------------
This delusion on your part indicates that the Right has successfully
brainwashed and terrified you out of voting against them. The Rich
pay vast fortunes to convince people that nothing they can do will
help them, and that everyone who says they will is lying. It's very
important to despirit the slaves.

Well, the rich find themselves in the enviable position of controlling
all the resources. (BTW, I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from
capitalizing "The rich". My name is Rich, and I'm not one of them.)
----------------------------
Okay ;-> The Wealthy only control what we LET them control. If a
Majority became fully aware of their power to stop LETTING them,
then they can change that overnight. The Majority can simply decide
the wealthy ownership of other's property is in abeyance, and it
will be so!


Alas, the majority are sheep.
----------------

Except for that once in a while when they're not, otherwise we would
all still be serfs superintended in the fields by knights on horseback.

Also it depends how ruthless the minority
are, although annihilating all the serfs leaves only the masters to do
the shitty jobs.
------------------

The ruthlessness factor is important only to the point where you cause
your serfs to become ruthless. Then you're a goner.

But the likelihood is by the time you wipe out 1/2 the
serfs the rest will pretty much fall in line.
------------------------

There are not enough soldiers under a nobility who will be able to take
on a Majority, and any larger army has to be raised from those slaves
themselves! As in Russia, the kids in the tanks do not fire on their
parents!!

And de-spiriting the slaves is very, very easy for them, since they
have already stolen all of the resources that the slaves have access
to, except for Will.
-----------------------
And there lies the rub, Majority Will can ONLY be undermined by
disinformation!

And distribution of resources is trivial, in the face of
institutionalized murder.
Thanks,
Rich
-----------------------------
The Majority can do whatever it wants, as soon as it WANTS!
-Steve

If and only if it decides to switch its brain on. Luckily watching TV
and eating pizza is more attractive to the great unwashed.

Cheers
Terry
----------------------------------------

So far. Wait. Watch.

-Steve
--
-Steve Walz rstevew@armory.com ftp://ftp.armory.com/pub/user/rstevew
Electronics Site!! 1000's of Files and Dirs!! With Schematics Galore!!
http://www.armory.com/~rstevew or http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public